EDH/Commander general

>getting triggered over proxies
they're not my cup of tea but what's it to you if some biscuit prints a deck?

Both of you shut the fuck up before that retard comes in here and shits up the thread screaming about proxies

I wanna build this guy some day. I had a friend who used him a lot and it was so fun to play against.

First three I would be okay but aren't painlands and fixlands more accessible in price? Hell I have the UR painland and I am the biggest cheapfucker in /edhg/

>wanting the game to be pay2win

there's nothing wrong with playing in proxies as long as you aren't using those proxies to power your deck way past your group's power level. you shouldn't proxy sneak attack and emrakul for your xenagos deck if your opponents are playing goofy, low power shit.

however, if someone complains about high-power card proxies in a meta where EVERYONE is playing expensive high-power cards, that person is probably a spike shitter who can't win games without arms-racing his group with expensive staples

>I should be allowed to play this game despite the fact that I don't own any cards, refuse to spend money on it, and showed up with a bunch of pieces of printer paper that I wrote "BLAK LOWTIS" on

>what do you mean you don't have money? Don't you understand?!?! THIS ISN'T A FUCKING GAME KIDDO
Some people are poor and can't afford to play a glorified slot machine to get viable cards.

>That face when you finally can invest in making a deck based on Emrakul because she finally has a commander legal version.
>I've played Emrakul in modern since I started this game back in Rise of Eldrazi and always was annoyed that my favorite titan was denied to me.
>Waited fucking years for this card
>She even has a cool mindslaver effect which opens the door for a clunky, yet interesting wincondition of taking control of the entire table.
>Building the deck the best I can
>Reading every single colorless card in the game
> figure out cool synergies and ways to ramp and make Emrakul work
>Go to a gaming group
>Mention that I'm building Emrakul as my commander
>They give me a pity look and tell me that I'm doing colorless wrong and that only Kozilek is good
>Tell them I know, I just like Emrakul better as she is my personal favorite creature in MTG
>Get looked at like I'm stupid, repeat the same mantra of Butcher being best

This has happened 3 times with three different game groups, every other color combo it seems building a slightly subpar commander because you like them is seen in a good light, passion for the story or fun or whatnot but try that in Colorless and people seem to act like something is wrong with you... What the fuck gives?

My real problem with it is that usually when people 'proxy' a deck, they have no intention of ever actually getting the cards. I'm not saying 'pay 2 win', but if you aren't even going to bring actual cards, you're not playing Magic. You're sitting next to us and pretending you're playing Magic. If you wanted to come golfing with me but you brought a bunch of tree branches and rocks instead of clubs and balls, and you just swat at the rocks and then say "OH MAN LOOK I GOT A HOLE IN ONE I'M SO GOOD AT GOLF" you'd be a stupid asshole.

unironically yes, you idiot. everyone should be able to play magic if they so choose to, even if they dont have money

Then you don't get to play.

Do you go to your friend's house and scream "I WANNA PLAY IT I WANNA PLAY IT I WANNA PLAY IT" until he lets you play his PS4? Just because you want something doesn't mean you're entitled to it.

>I SHOULD GET WHATEVER I WANT JUST BECAUSE I WANT IT
I bet you shoplift.

They're functionally identical, if i was playing golf and one of my friends brought along a 3d printed golf club that worked just as well then i wouldn't give a shit.

Yeah painlands and fixlands are the ones i can buy, i plan on proxying only over-expensive pieces of cardboard or if i want foils, if they are 1-3 $ it's fine
I'm fine with being an asshole, i just don't want to spend several 100s of $ on cardboard

Technically the correct way to do Colorless is to use 25 Islands and 15 colorless-producing lands, use Arcanis the Omnipotent as your Commander, and then fill in the rest of the deck with the colorless cards you were gonna use.

But if you WANT to use Emrakul, fuck 'em. It's a game,

that is a retarded analogy and you should feel bad for making me read it

if you can look at a card, and you can read the card, and you know what the card does, then why the fuck does it matter whether it was printed by wotc or some random fucko

sorry

Then you don't get to play.

You're not entitled to a game just because you want to play it. I want to get my dick sucked by Christina Hendricks, but that doesn't mean I'm entitled to that suckjob just because I want it.

If i could make an identical copy of my friends ps4 then fuck yeah i'd do it, there is no functional difference between printed cards and cards printed by wizards.

You can see my club (stick), you can see how I swung, so you know where my ball (rock) would have gone. I should get to play golf for free.

There is, though. One of them is an actual card that people paid for to support their hobby.

The other is a piece of paper you printed out because you feel entitled to be handed whatever you want for free just because you want it, which makes you a fucking child.

This idiot is still doing the golf anology. If you're the kind of guy who likes golf then you are already too far gone to understand people not having money but still wanting to have fun.

you are a moron. i sincerely hope you are being facetious

>3d printed golf club
i would definitely shit

This analogy is fucking terrible, a stick isn't a golf club and cannot serve the same purpose as a club, a rock isn't a ball, a card printed on cardboard and a card printed on paper have no FUNCTIONAL difference.

Look at what you motherfuckers did

Look, you're fucking retarded. Proxies were allowed at vintage events for cards on the reserved list, until someone got a hateboner for them. Your hateboner eclipses theirs, you're advocating for people to not play a game which could benefit from an increase of the player base, just because they don't have the money to play with cards that exceed a certain pricetag.

I personally don't play with proxies because I hate the look, but I feel that if you can't afford a card that's crucial to the deck you should be allowed to proxy it until you have to play with a group of colossal factors like yourself.

And a 'proxy' isn't a card. It's you sitting NEXT to a game of Magic and pretending.

Oh fuck off dude, the market isn't providing a price i find acceptable, i have no obligation to support business's that fail to accomadate me, i am the consumer, i have sovereignty and damn fucking right i'm going to use it.

>Proxies were allowed at vintage events
Unsanctioned ones. And using a dead joke of a format to justify your entitlement is bullshit.

You're not "increasing the player base" with proxies, because PRETENDING TO OWN MAGIC CARDS DOES NOT SUPPORT THE FUCKING GAME.

sorry

I always wanted to make a voltron with this guy.

>Oh fuck off dude, the market isn't providing a price i find acceptable
then you don't get to have that.

I don't find 400 dollars for a PS4 'acceptable', that doesn't mean I can just go kick in the glass case at Target and take one because I want it. You're not entitled to own something just because you want to.

just like you're sitting here pretending to be having an argument, even though you're actually just a retard spouting random analogies that make no sense

Colossal faggots*

Fuck my autocorrect

inconsistent

The only thing you support by buying singles is the secondary market, wotc already got his money for those cards. If you say i'm not supporting my LGS i have you know i'm buying a bunch of foils from them to strip and print on.

I like this guy until my friend played him and milled my stonehoof chieftain and won the game with his trample, hexproof, indestructible general.

how is stealing something and creating something yourself anywhere the same

if i could build a ps4 that can run ps4 games for free, then yeah, i think i would rather try my hand at building one instead. if the company behind the cards can't provide a reasonable incentive to spend 50 dollars on a piece of cardboard that has some text on it, then the company has fucked up, not me

Except the people I play with that use proxies actually buy cards they can afford and play in events with real decks.

Also commander is an unsanctioned format, so I can use vintage to prove my point, regardless of the fact that it's on it last limb.

And if nobody buys from the secondary market because everyone just plays pretend with proxies, why the fuck would anyone ever buy packs?

Retard if i wanted a ps4 and couldn't afford one and had a much more viable method to build a ps4 for much cheaper myself i would do it, there is some skill needed to create a ps4 that i cannot do which the market provides, the fact is that printing cards takes wizards no more effort than it does for me to print cards, and i'm not going to play a shitty fucking slot machine or pay out the nose to get something i could easily produce myself.

Because making a proxy is stealing. You're stealing the IP of a company and using it because you feel entitled to have access to it simply because you want it. It's the same as 3D printing a mini, or pirating a game. You're not 'stealing' a physical object, but you're absolutely stealing intellectual property because you feel like you're entitled access to it simply because you want it, and you shouldn't have to pay money for it.

And it takes no 'effort' to make a videogame available on Steam, or to produce discs and send them out. But it still took time and effort to design the game itself, and if you go "I GET THIS BECAUSE I WANT IT" you're a fucking dick who feels entitled to the fruits of someone else's labors, but refuses to support that creator.

So now you've resorted to the slippery slope fallacy. You assume if we let a guy proxy his expensive cards, soon everyone will proxy everything. Except they never will, and to think so proves your ignorance and stubborness

To be fair, a stable secondary market encourages people to buy boxes because they know that their collection will retain value. Nobody would spend hundreds of dollars on cardboard that can be reprinted for a fraction of the cost.

Personally I wish mtg was more like netrunner or something with non-random sets. Or even just more official proxies like the collector's edition way back when.

Derevi stax person here. Fun is overrated. Crit my deck pls

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/06-12-16-stax-on-stax/

I don't see how that's slippery slope.

"I'm proxying this card because I should get to play with it just for wanting to". Why the fuck would that person only proxy SOME cards? It's not a huge leap of logic for someone who feels entitled to something just because they want it to decide "Fuck it, why should I ever actually buy cards? I can just proxy all of them."

>"I'm proxying this card because I should get to play with it just for wanting to"
No you fucking retard it's "I'm proxying this card because the cost for it is considered impractical by me and the community"

Maybe the next time someone brings it up tell them in your best villain's plot all coming together voice "Good, keep thinking that"

but it's a secondary market at that point

if wotc wants to sell me a damnation, sure, i'll buy one from them. but they aren't selling any at the oment. and i don't want to support the secondary market because that's basically stealing, just like buying used games in gamestop. the only option left is to make the product myself

That's what I figured. That being said all my decks are super casual so it might be kinda fun to have a level of randomness.

Because the rest of the community wouldn't be okay with that.

If someone came to me and started playing a full proxy rendition of the 4000 dollar Yidris storm deck, I'd tell him to fuck off. But if he came with just the dual lands and the other 80+ dollar cards proxied, I'd consider playing. And I know that I'm not the only person that will not play against full proxied decks.

As long as there's a playgroup telling a player to not be a cunt, he usually won't be, and that's with any game that requires social interaction, not just magic.

Can everyone just shut the fuck up about proxies and stop jerking off on each others faces

>Implying that you have to buy a 4-5 color land base to win
Bitch, my Teferi, Temporal Archmage deck will wipe the floor with your "pay to win" bullshit. It's shut down deck worth thousands.

>"I cant afford a 5 color landbase"

Then stop whining and cheating and play mono or dual color. I was a poor fag in college and could barely commit money for any cards because of rent and living costs so instead of whining or cheating to make fake cards I went mono Blue with the Teferi precon deck and spent what little money I could spend on cards buying good shit instead of blowing it on landbases.

I started with little things, built sea monsters.dec and worked my way up, found some Stax cards, worked on buying just good utility cards and had EASILY one of the strongest decks on campus. And the deck was pretty much a precon with $70 of extra rares thrown into it over a year.

Anyone saying Commander is "Too Expensive" and have to proxy are just too lazy to work in their limitations.

>but I feel that if you can't afford a card that's crucial to the deck you should be allowed to proxy it

If you cant afford the card, don't build that deck? Its a format with over 500 different generals, if you cant get the card to play one specific deck just play something else. I always wanted to play color Scion of the Ur Dragon, but I wont spend $2000 on the duel lands alone. So I didn't build it, done and done.

"Intellectual Property stops after you open the booster pack"

kek This guy is flat out right, in every way. There is no case where making a proxy of a card, whose design and IP is owned by another, isn't stealing, especially because you are using it to profit yourself.

He may be slippery sloping, but he isn't arguing stealing is OK as long as "You REALLY don't wanna spend money" like you guys are. Seriously...

Here's my current list anyway.
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/yidris-current/

Do I need to explain how disgusting palinchron is when it gains cascade? Double cascade even.

I'm considering cutting it because it's kind of fuqqing my group.

Consuming Aberration is extremely underrated.

Repost from last thread.

>come into /edh/
>wow thread's pretty big for how recent it is
>I hope it's good discussi-

for fucks sake guys

Post about cards you auto include in all decks or decks of a given color

return to dust in white
boros charm in boros
hedron archive in everything

wait, one more
land tax in white

>I was a poor fag in college and could barely commit money for any cards because of rent and living costs so instead of whining or cheating to make fake cards I went mono Blue with the Teferi precon deck and spent what little money I could spend on cards buying good shit instead of blowing it on landbases.

so basically what you're saying is, you were a level 1 edh deckbuilder in college, and you're still one today? except you just have more money?

>EASILY one of the strongest decks on campus

wow dude good job you made a deck that wins in a format where winning is irrelevant

Explain how printing a magic card onto printer paper for use in a nonsanctioned format is the same as pirating overwatch, for example.

One is blatant stealing and one isnt, go ahead and figure that out.1

For black
>Phyrexian Arena
>Phyrexian Etchings
>Mutilate

Blue
>Invoke Prejudice
>Propaganda
>Consecration Sphinx

Red
>Implying Red

Green
>Sylvan library
>Exploration
>Kodama's Reach

White
>Final Judegment
>Reverse Damage
>Ghostly Prison

Any deck
>Sol Ring
>Thran Dynamo
>Scroll Rack

I don't think I've ever built a white deck without Sun Titan

>if you can't afford that card, don't build that deck?

What about if I want to build the deck, but don't want to spend money on a deck I may hate playing and wouldn't know if I would or not until I sit down and play it with people?

Since we are talking about Proxies and legit cards... Here are two scenarios I'm curious about.

I have a friend who runs Gaea's Cradle in his Rhys deck and uses the Gold Bordered version from the World Champion's Set.

He takes the gold border Cradle out when we have tournaments, as they aren't tournament legal, but in normal games no one really minds.

What are your thoughts on the Gold Bordered cards? Fine for use or terrible proxy?

Second question is what about the situation where someone has 6 decks, but only one of a card like Mana Vault, so he has proxies of Mana vault in 5 of his decks and the 6th one has the actual vault, because he doesn't want to constantly have to swap sleeves each time he changes decks. What are the opinions on this scenario?

Don't forget demonic tutor for black.

I'm fine with both scenarios. Second one could be avoided with same color of sleeves for all decks but that could be a matter of taste.

"And yet I feel entitled to own it"

knew I forgot something.

And if nobody is BUYING from the secondary market, it dies.

And if there's no secondary market, booster sales shrink. Who would pay 4 dollars for a pack that's guaranteed to contain less than 4 dollars of cards? Why would you buy a pack when you could just print whatever cards you need? No secondary market kills a CCG.

I'm personally okay with both situations, the first because cradle is pricey and they can reprint it but choose not to, and the second because they physically own the card.

entitled!! entitled!!! oogga booga!!!

>Hedron Archive in anything
Interesting! Do you find that it hits a better 'sweet spot' than Mind Stone and Dreamstone Hedron?

I'd run all three depending on the deck.

They're both stealing.

You're saying "I am going to obtain the intellectual property of someone else without paying for it". Someone had to design the set that card came in, the card itself, the mechanics, the art, the setting. Someone had to design Overwatch, had to come up with the concepts, draw up concept ART, model and animate the characters, all that stuff.

In both cases, you've decided that you want the fruit of their labors, but that they don't deserve to be paid for it, so you're just gonna take it.

I am switching my Phenax to Lazav and I am hoping it will be a much more relevant deck at my kitchen table multiplayer games.

I frown on gold-bordered cards if that's the only one they own, because I just treat them as good-looking proxies.

If someone actually OWNS a card and is "proxying" it across their decks to save time and effort, I don't give a single flying fuck because they actually own the fucking card. If someone was using a gold bordered Cradle because their 'real' one is in their Legacy deck, go for it. If it's because they want a Cradle for their deck but don't want to pay for it, no, that's a Forest.

IIRC dreamstone is more expensive and I don't want to sacrifice it as much, while mind stone doesn't do as much. Hedron Archive is more playable IMO.

en·ti·tled
inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/
adjective
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

>"I should get to play with whatever cards I want just because I want them" somehow isn't 'believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges'
k

Except printing a proxy of a card doesn't take money from wizards, especially if the set is out of print you massive fucking idiot.

Right- they're all sort of a lineup. Hedron Archive is just 2 Mind Stones stapled together, and Dreamstone Hedron is 3 Mind Stones. I can see your argument, though; Mind Stone is an okay mana rock for accel (if not fixing), where Dreamstone Hedron costs a lot and doesn't ramp super well (you'd rather have Gilded Lotus in any non-colorless deck, probably), and unless you can easily recur it you're not likely to spend 9 mana to draw 3 cards outside of mono-white.

Not to mention the fact it would be literally impossible to get older cards, as the prints for the boosters have ended way long ago.

so i have to give someone 200 bucks for an og dual land, a card that i know will NEVER be printed again, just because of some metaphysical concept that the higher demand of og dual lands may or may not increase booster sales in some way?

also, wotc itself puts all their cards online for everyone to see. imagine if the same was done with movies. would it be stealing to download those movies and put them on dvds for personal use?

What's the story behind the gold-bordered cards anyway, why would Wizards print stuff you can't play with?

Sure it does. If you proxy a card, then that's a REAL copy you didn't buy, or a real pack you didn't open.

If enough people are proxying instead of buying product, it hurts Wizards.

>so i have to give someone 200 bucks for an og dual land
If you want to use one in a Magic game, yes. You do not get to utilize someone else's intellectual property for free just because you want it.

That's what these idiots are trying to tell us.

The original one was Collector's Edition. It was basically just a thing for... well, collecting. You could buy one and be the 'owner' of a full set of Alpha, albeit one that's not legal for tournaments. That way people could say "Look at me, I have the Power 9!" and maybe play them in casual games, but it didn't affect tournaments.

So chumps could play with wold series decks back in the day for a fraction of the cost. They just aren't legal in anything official really.

Yea, wizards used to be based. Who knew.