Warhammer fantasy general: Empire robot monsters edition

They're cool. An ideal skaven campaign is at least one part Paranoia. Remember to download the eratta, the sourcebooks has a few unfortunate misprints.

Warhammer FRP isn't like D&D, and the monsters don't automatically carry gold and magic items. D&D is about quests for glory and riches; WFRP pretends to be the same, but in fact is about the PCs' day-to-day fight for survival in a universe that hates them.

Also, new player's that are used to other systems will often have an instinct to start planning out their characters long-term. Curb that shit right away, either by sticking to the RAW of making them roll their characters from top to bottom and then make up their backgrounds and stuff based on that, or by making it clear that you will be strictly enforcing the rule of GM permission for Career advancement; they cannot count on being able to take a subsequent career just because it's an exit, they actually have to earn it or otherwise become said career.

Arguing that you're a Mercenary now or that you're a Sergeant as a natural progression after acting like a leadership-type Soldier may be easy, but becoming an ordained Priest, receiving the blessing of your god, or moving from a Journeyman Wizard to become a magister (Master Wizard), might take quite some effort, or you may simply fail, "forcing" you to take another career, branch out, and maybe try again later (if applicable).

Never, ever engineer excuses for your players to allow them to progress as they want. Master Wizards need two magic items for a reason, and it's natural for a Senior Apprentice/Journeyman of the Gold College to become a Merchant or Artisan, a Celestial Wizard to also be an Astrologer, or an Initiate to act as a friar before becoming a full Priest, or for almost anyone to become a Hunter to support themselves.

Many systems have purely vertical progression - Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is not such a system or such a setting. Try to emphasize the lateral nature of progression, and the ephemeral and permutational nature of the characters and their lives.

>Remember to download the eratta, the sourcebooks has a few unfortunate misprints.

Let's also not forget that the .pdf OEF:s re-published by Fantasy Flight Games once they took over the licenses from Black Industries are reprints of the original 1st prints, and thus contain no Errata, resulting in considerable confusion. One of the most egregious mistakes is pic related.

In the FFG-published .pdf:s, this section is all kinds of fucked up, suggesting that you can change career at any point with GM permission and your gear, and conflicting with another section that (correctly) suggests otherwise, but in the last actual prints, the section is fixed. This is a pretty major oversight, and a lot of people just assumed that the FFG .pdf:s would be digital versions of the last prints, but apparently, FFG couldn't even get that right.

Also, this tinyurl is super-helpful: jx448zz

I'd link it properly, but no matter what I do, Veeky Forums is being shit and thinks it's spam, and the image is too big to upload on Veeky Forums. It's uploaded to imgur, but I made it into a tinyurl for ease of use.

Hmmmmm, would it perhaps be better if I were to run a urban investigation based campaign set in Nuln rather than in Marienburg, to make it easier for the players to familiarise themselves with the setting? Perhaps I could use skaven and vampire backed cults and secret societies rather than just focus img on chaos as well. What would you recommend?

>An ideal skaven campaign is at least one part Paranoia.

A good Skaven campaign practically requires good players, though, that are well familiar with the system and are very much aware that they're all going to be playing chaotic evil backstabbers that survive on instinct and barbarianism.

Some people get really personally invested in their characters unless they've had that beaten out of them already. The Skaven do have pack loyalty, but they are also a society that are practically 50% jewish caricature, 50% gypsy morals, and 50% nigger behaviour.

Show weakness, be usurped, if you can't hold onto what's yours, it's not yours anymore. It's completely legit for Skaven players to "borrow" from each other and, if push comes to shove, shiv eachother with a rusty knife, if they think they can get away with it. And that's before we even start with the politics, the hierarchies and the skaven tribes, major or otherwise. And they're both envious and scornful of other races.

Being herp-derp evil on principle should be discouraged, but getting into the skaven mindset could mean that it'll be very hard to tell the difference between a "legitimate" grievance or appropriate opportunism and the mentioned herp-a-derp chaotic stupid. To players familiar with alignment, it could help to emphasize "neutral evil" over "chaotic", maybe, but ultimately it comes down to having players that understand what's going on, what can be expected, what is appropriate, and won't throw a bitchfit when one of the other players goes must have-have give-take to mes nows and pushes you off the edge of a tower after stab-stab.

Depends on how new you are yourself, really. If you're very new, my recommendation would be to set off with the starting adventures, but that takes you to the war-torn city of Middenheim, smack dab in the aftermath of the Storm of Chaos.

If you want to go for a major city with lots of intrigue, Nuln is probably a good choice, though, and it's (relative) proximity to Bretonnia, Athel Loren, at least 2-3 dwarven holds (Karak Azgaraz, Khazid Grimaz, Karak Norn) makes for a good cultural, political and mercantile melting pot, and it's also got solid access/proximity to Altdorf.

Warhammer Roleplay 2nd Edition has a "main" questline, with the starting adventure (Through the Drakwald) in the Core Rulebook tentatively tying into the first part of Paths of the Damned (Ashes of Middenheim). The third part of the Paths of the Damned (Forges of Nuln) has a solid guide to Nuln that you could probably use, too, that you could practically hand to the players as a foundation (ignoring the "Chapters" that relate to the actual quests).

The proximity to Altdorf would also make it easy for characters to say that they're from there, or anywhere in that area. The more I think of it, Nuln is a pretty good starting spot, really, since there's little need to come up with excuses in most cases (as opposed to, say, what the fuck is an Apprentice Wizard doing in Kislev?)

It might sound like a technicality, but simply moving from Marienburg to Nuln saves you the issues of having to explain questions like "So, is this the Empire.. but not? So, can I use spells openly.. yes? But the College.. oh, so no college, just a guild that is sorta-associated with the Colleges but not officially?".

Thanks. In that case I will move the adventure to nuln, there does seem to be a lot more resources available to draw from then for Marienburg as well. Do you happen to have any other general tips, I understand that downtime is allot more important in wfrp than in other RPGs.

Thanks for the info, I'll check those.

>A good Skaven campaign practically requires good players, though, that are well familiar with the system and are very much aware that they're all going to be playing chaotic evil backstabbers that survive on instinct and barbarianism
Well that'd be the issue. I'm doing the GM for my mates but they aren't familiar with WH's universe and I doubt they'd be able to roleplay Skavens properly.
Sucks because I know we'd have quite some fun.

>I understand that downtime is allot more important in wfrp than in other RPGs.

Somewhat. It's easy to gloss over, but if you plan for them and time them, downtime are good opportunities to explain why characters have progressed and what they've been doing. It can be very hard sometimes to establish characters as integrated into the world and performing their duties or moving on career-wise without some amount of downtime here and there.

So I absolutely advise planning for it. It doesn't have to be major. Just a week or two there, where Ginny got herself a tavern and I hear she's a tavernkeep now, or a month there where it turns out that the harvest have gone bad and the city is now full of beggers, and the group's apprentice went to Altdorf to report his success in the mission his master gave him, and he became a Journeyman before returning to Nuln to ply his wizardly trade, and so on and so forth.

Try to make "breaks" in the narrative where stuff like this fits in.

This could mean that they have to research something before they can continue, or have to ask around the markets (a process that could very well take a week or two, regular life permitting), or that they're stuck in their investigation, or maybe they were simply successful in the last adventure and dot all the I:s and cross all the T:s and then time passes before something draws their attention again.

It's honestly a bit frustrating that some games (I'm thinking of Warhammer Roleplay 2nd Ed. here, but it also applies to the entire range of WH40kRP books) do well with downtime, and can even be hard to play without having "proper" downtime to help "make sense" of the progression(s), but the Core Rulebooks give zero help on the matter.

I think that the issue is that when they're written, it's with the expectation that it'll be used by experienced GM:s that "of course there's downtime at opportune moments" or something, but this is often very far from the truth.

The skaven book extensively talks about how to play skaven, if you want to give them a chance.

It can easily be summed up by saying that the Skaven are ratty Cobra if Cobra consisted of nothing but Coba Commander and billions of Starscreams.

Use a campaign module and model your attitude/descriptions/atmosphere after a CoC Keeper.

I recommend starting with Enemy Within and using the Winds of Chaos adaptations for 2nd edition.

I played in one.
It was fun. I survived.

>the Winds of Chaos adaptations for 2nd edition.

What is that and why should you use it? I've been playing quite a bit of 2nd Edition, but this one must've passed me by (or I simply passed it by myself and dismissed it, and simply forgot about it).

>I survived.

If the GM runs a WHFRP2 game *and* it's a Skaven game, if you survived, he's clearly playing it wrong. Should've killed you all at it's conclusion, on principle, if only because you knew about someone's plans or something.

Either that, or rewarded you with the right of siring offspring. Enjoy your Skaven-mother.

Noob WFRP-related question inc.

I know that when I change my career, I replace the stats of my primary profile by the values written on my new advance scheme unless the former are already equal or higher.

My question is, does it work the same way for the secondary profile?

E.g. if I start with 10 WP, roll Noble as my starting career which gives +2 WP, and then decide to become a Student which also gives +2 WP, how many WP will I have once I've completed my second advance scheme? 12 or 14?

Is this third edition? In second you replace all your advance scheme numbers with values that are higher, both primary and secondary.

The bonus isn't cumulative, in your exxample you'd still only have 12 WP. This is useful in some cases as characters with experience find they readily adapt to other careers. I.E a veteran will more quickly fill out bounty hunter than a student, he's used to fighting.

Also just to make sure, you fill the values into your advance scheme of your primary profile, not your primary profile stats itself.

Also your secondary profile refers to your stats such as attacks wounds, movement etc.

>if only because you knew about someone's plans or something.
That's a shitty generalisation of Skaven society.
I survived because I was playing clever and cowardly.

It's second edition. Thanks anons.

>My question is, does it work the same way for the secondary profile?

Yes. Think of it like the entire profile. You replace all the advances of your old career with the advances of your new career. The only reason you really "keep" the ones that are higher is because it makes for easier bookkeeping, since that's how many characteristics advances you've already taken.

>E.g. if I start with 10 WP, roll Noble as my starting career which gives +2 WP, and then decide to become a Student which also gives +2 WP, how many WP will I have once I've completed my second advance scheme? 12 or 14?

You start with 10 Wounds (I assume you mean W, Wounds, not WP, which is Willpower), you start as a Noble, and you then *take* +2 W during the course of your career, and then later become a Student, after finishing Noble. Upon becoming a Student, the old profile is replaced by the new profile, except for the characteristics for which you've already taken more/higher advances.

This includes Wounds, so as a Nobleman, you *must* take +2 Wounds before you can move onto a new career, and as a Student, you *cannot* take +2 Wounds.

>That's a shitty generalisation of Skaven society.
Yes, but it's also a good excuse for having you killed in lieu of other reasons.

>I survived because I was playing clever and cowardly.

Good, good. Cowardice is a social virtue in skaven society and being brave is probably considered a mental illness.

Is there any reason why it's referred to as Primary and Secondary profile? As I was writing a response earlier I started thinking that I have no idea why the distinction is relevant at all, since it never really matters.

Unnecessary things lead to misunderstandings like these. Having not played WHFRP1, is it some kind of vestigial thing? Was it more relevant in 1st Edition, maybe?

The Enemy Within was written for 1st Edition. All of the stats for NPCs and items are meant for 1st edition.

Winds of Chaos adapts those stats to 2nd edition.

Bottom of this page: windsofchaos.com/?page_id=19

Skaven females aren't naturally like that, the skaven drug them up and fatten them using magic and Moulder science. At least once, in WFRP 1e material, a female skaven with white fur and sorcerous powers is mentioned.

TIL that Grey Wizards, Shadowmancers, take a vow of poverty. Sounds like I've got a new character if I never get to play my Priest of Shallya again. Poverty 5 lyfe.

Ah, fair enough. I knew that The Enemy Within was for 1st Ed., I just thought you were referring to something separate with the Winds of Chaos, like some spell adaptation or homebrew or something.

>Skaven females aren't naturally like that
>in WFRP 1e material

The whole "no skaven females" thing wasn't there from the beginning, which is why it's a bit inconsistent. It's fairly well-established that females are breeders in Skaven society, and a white-furred female in a leadership position would probably be considered a major oddity.

That being said, this can possibly be handwaved/rationalized as white-furs being considered holy/leadership caste skaven, and thus maybe even white-furred females are considered "above" mere breeding.

On the other hand, a white-furred female just might be perfect breeding material, too, so I dunno.

Some user once presented a theory that the Skaven females aren't actually retarded, and that they're just ruling from behind the scenes, a clandestine counterpoint to the council of seers.

What is the "Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels"? I've found some references to it, but nothing on the event itself, only that Grand Theogonist Viktor Helmgart put a stop to it and that Alric (..no surname?) was Supreme Patriarch during it. It was supposed to have taken place in or around 2415.

It sounds interesting and it's taken place just about 100 years before Storm of Chaos and the start of Warhammer Roleplay 2nd Edition, but I can find fuckall about the actual event.

You need to take all the advancements for your Primary profile, not so with Secondary. If you don't want that extra wound before you change careers you don't have to.

...

Basically a storm of magic broke out over Altdorf and the colleges, whose relations were terrible thanks to the emperor putting them against each other, thought they were being attacked so started an all out war. Hundreds of wizards fought through the streets of altdorf until the grand Theoginist was able to put a stop to it.

>The way the golden order fought

Kek. Fucking gold wizards

Oh god, imagine looking out of the window one morning and seeing a parade of mechanical horrors marching by. That bear looks like Freddy Fazbear's fabolous but even more terrifying brother.

Also, gigantic dogryffon mounts for engineers when?

>Some user once presented a theory that the Skaven females aren't actually retarded, and that they're just ruling from behind the scenes, a clandestine counterpoint to the council of seers.

This is vaguely hinted at as being a possibility in WFRP 2e, but we know that even in modern lore, 'fat immobile uterus' is not the natural state of females, but one they're put into.

I agree that if ANY female skaven escape being breeders, it's rare, and probably only found among white furs.

>beast wizards summoning monsters and riding griffons to fight wizards throwing lightning and summoning meteors
I need more of this

This is simply not true and I have no idea why you'd think otherwise.

So we're only a WHFRPG thread now, are we? I'm sad that this is what WHFB has come to, but as long as the setting stays alive I can be somewhat happy.

I was thinking of the wrong thing. You have to complete your advance scheme but you don't have to buy the skills and talents.

Nothing wrong with that, plus WFRP offers a better look at the Warhammer world.

Not "only," but it's the only thing that continuously creates its own content, and RPG players mesh better with settingfags.

No, dude. To finish a career, you need to buy all advances (primary and secondary), all trappings (unless your DM houserules it), and all skills/talents (save ones marked off by 'or'). I think the devs themselves answered this recurring question on twitter.

The only exception is changing to a basic career. RAW, you can exit from one career into any basic at any time for 200 XP IIRC, though that comes with the caveat of DM approval.

My book says otherwise. I can't find any of the devs tweets on this matter, but I have seen a few in these threads before.

>gold wizards
Howdy imperial servants, check it out, I am made of gold
-t. gelt

How can fire wizards compete?

Lore of Bling is best lore

>Your general, wizard AND BSB are in the unit? Ok, let's see what happens...

Your book is specifically only referring to the skills and talents with "or" of these you only need to buy 1. All other skills and talents are mandatory to class up.

Warhammer Fantasy RPG 2nd Edition:

What is the process for breaking down doors? I have not seen it explained in the rule book, but maybe I missed it. Say a Door has T5 and D15, I assume this means it has toughness five, which means it takes six damage to do one point of damage. Is D15 its Wounds? Does that mean fifteen total points of damage are required to break it down?

When you say D15, where are you getting that from? In any case, I'd rule one or more Strength tests, with various modifiers, for breaking it down. Either by throwing your weight into it or using an impromptu battering ram. Attacking it would be like damaging anything else, though I'd add increased damage over time as the door starts to splinter, or if you use the right tools like a wood chopping axe.

My players have a habit of using gunpowder to blow open doors, so other modifiers don't come up all that often.

Thanks a lot, man, that's awesome.

>You have to complete your advance scheme but you don't have to buy the skills and talents.

Skills & Talents are part of your advancement scheme, dingus. The section you screencapped even outright states it, so you can't argue that you have one of the fucked-up pre-errata prints.
>Before you can enter the new career you've chosen, you must finish your old career by buying all available advances.

>My book says otherwise.

No it doesn't.
>To start with you *must* take one of the two, otherwise you cannot complete the career.

When there are options (such as the given example of Coolheaded *or* Street Fighting for the Agitator) for Skills or Talents, you *must* take (or already have) at least one to finish the career, but you *can* take all.

They don't, hence Thyrus Gormann getting BTFO by gelt in the fight for the supreme patriarch title. Bright college eternally Cucked

>What is the process for breaking down doors?

I'm not sure where you are getting the T:s and D:s here, because I can't find anything in the Core Rulebook or in the Armory at a glance.

But breaking down doors is usually handled by Strength Tests or some other narrative aspect, with a difficulty as determined by the GM.

I'm not sure if this is ever explicitly covered in the rules, but Crowbars explicitly gives a bonus to Strength Tests to open doors, and a simple Wooden Wedge increases the Strength Test to open a door by a full step.
(personally, I would start at Hard, -20, for what we would generally consider "full" doors, with a good lock, etc., keeping in mind that most doors in Warhammer Fantasy are probably flimsier than that).

Obviously, there are doors that simply will not be able to open that way, in which case you'll either have to tell the players no, have them find another way, or assign it an Armor, Toughness Bonus and/or Wounds you find appropriate.

To be fair, though, Balthazar cheated by being fucking metal.

>cheated by having a better understanding of magic than the current patriarch
>cheated by being better than his opponent

t. Buttmad Pyromancer

How does a metal wizard win a duel against another wizard?
Wizards don't wear armour, so Searing Doom and Gold Hounds wouldn't be able to hurt one. Did he cast Final Transmute until he got a 6?

7 foot tall hulking chad Wizard who was patriarch for 3 terms straight lost to a scrawny manlet who hadn't even become master of his own order yet. He literally never recovered because he's a fat fuck in the end times book he appears in, and doesn't do anything noteworthy. couldn't even become the incarnate of fire over a fucking dwarf. a dwarf! that can't even use magic! Can't make this shit up.

For starters, the spells and the way they work in the rulebooks are just for game mechanics purposes, they can do way more than that in the lore. among the things mentioned in this passage alone are angelic wings of fire, summoning magical construct weapons, turning into a puddle of molten gold and heat rays.

RAW (whether we're talking WFB or WHFRP) are always an abstraction of the fluff on some level or another. For example, in WHFRP2, it's outright stated that the strongest of wizards are not represented, and that Battle Wizards are straight-up beyond what players can become before it's time to retire the characters or start homebrewing.

So to assume that they'd be using spells from any game book is silly.

The best way for a Metal Wizard to beat another wizard is probably to turn his fists to a steel-gold alloy and pimpslap the shit out of the other wizard.

If we're talking Warhammer Roleplay in particular, though, I think a sorely under-used rule is the one suggesting that you make your own spells as appropriate. Personally, I'm fond of making College-specific magic missiles, at least partially matching the Bright Wizard's line of straight attack spells. There's no reason why a Gold Wizard wouldn't be able to pull ball bearings out of their pockets and magicnetically hurl them at supersonic speed at someone.

This is why we disregard End Times.

>TFW my game was so fucking terrible that after almost 30 years it was shit canned just so GW could viking funeral it on a garbage barge
>TFW GW is making money hand over fist again
>TFW they don't want me anymore.

I fucking love Fantasy players.

>TFW warhammer is so good it took almost 10 years of abuses before dieing
>TFW GW reports aren't a disaster thanks to the game based on the old world and "new stuff" recycling concepts from the old world
>TFW AoSfags say they don't want warhammer anymore

I fucking love hypocrites
and putting the face when >TFW

Fantasy fags ironically memed AoS out of the grave with heir constant shitposting. its one of the most active generals on this board, even though here hasn't been a release in months. If people just kept shit to themselves, AoS would have quietly faded away into obscurity

Considering that Balthasar Gelt reached through flames that "No living creature could go through without being destroyed", with his arm (or all of himself) turned into gold, it's just a little bit silly, because gold has a melting point at just north of 1000°C.

Meanwhile, a regular bunsen burner with a yellow flame burns at about 900°C to1600°C, and Magnesium burns at 1900°C to 2300°C.

Anything burning with a "white hot flame" or literally destroy living things would be capable of melting gold. If we're turning ourselves into precious metals to deal with fire, why not Tungsten (~3400°C), Platinum (~1760°C), Titanium (~1660°C) or even Iron (~1500°C)?

Not being fun at parties aside, however, a Wizard did it, so who gives a fuck? Gold is said to bind magic, while lead is said to repel it, so I guess he could've used the Gold to bind the magic fire and divert it. After all, he did fuck over a Patriarch by using his own flame to channel a spell.

>while lead is said to repel it
I thought obsidian repelled magic

but I guess a bullet to the face works too

>this board
yes. because warhammer's success is determined by Veeky Forums generals.

>I honestly think AoS would've been much better if it hadn't tried so hard to connect itself to WFB.

I've said it countless times: If they hadn't done the whole End Times as a send-off to fuck over their own setting on some kind of principle, and simply made it an alternate universe in which Age of Sigmar was created, saying "this, this here is the point of Divergence; in Fantasy, this didn't happen, but in Age of Sigmar, it lead to the End Times", nobody would've minded in the least.

Age of Sigmar and End Times would've just been another loosely connected setting that could be freely ignored, and that wouldn't have interfered with any further development of the Fantasy setting, nor fucked with the established setting as countless fans already perceived it. Age of Sigmar, Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k would've all related to eachother in roughly the same way.

But no, they had to deliberately shit all over it in order to render the Fantasy setting a narrative wasteland, largely unsalvegable, alienating old fans and confusing the ever-living shit out of new fans.

I cannot help but to believe that the End Times was the result of some massive bitterness or resentful feelings within GW, and a very deliberate "fuck you" to people that actually liked Fantasy and disliked the newer fluff and the changes to key concepts (such as flanderization of Chaos, most noticeable in 40k, ever-increasing amounts of fantastical epicness, the loss of the stitched-together and thus un-copyright-able ideas and aspects pulled from a very wide network of fantasy sources and traditions with a veneer of awfulness, etc).

>pic related

>I thought obsidian repelled magic

Apparently both are used according to Realms of Sorcery pg. 39. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Can't remember a source for this, but I remember it being hinted that Gelt and Thyrus cut a deal and the fight was just for appearances.

>I cannot help but to believe that the End Times was the result of some massive bitterness or resentful feelings within GW, and a very deliberate "fuck you" to people that actually liked Fantasy
You're right. They hated you. You never bought any models. If you had bought models they wouldn't have killed it.

Fantasy was dead by the time they rolled out the end times.

It was more than such a tiered, broken, bland setting still clung too by autists and shitlords deserved.

>You never bought any models.

Of course I didn't. I never had any interest in the wargame. As has been demonstrated, however, the setting itself is quite popular outside the wargame.

As opposed to Age of Shitmar, which lingers in obscurity, clung to only by a small sect of dedicated autists and beaten housewives.

To the average person in the overall target demographic - gamers, predominantly males in the upper teens or early middle-age (these days) - "Age of Sigmar" may, at best, prompt them to ask "Oh, Warhammer Fantasy, right?". And that's still a pretty big stretch. More than likely, they'll simply ask "What?".

Gelt gave him a big sack of gold. :^)

Any chance you could see if you can think of that source? I'd love to see it, even if it's just an in-universe theory posited by a grumpy bright mage.

>Gelt gave him a big sack of gold. :^)

Classic Gold Wizard. There's a reason they're called Gold Wizards and the Golden Order, even though they practice the Lore of Metal.

It's funny that Balthasar Gelt is considered one of the greatest Supreme Patriarchs in history, yet his ascendancy and the prominence of The Golden Order is threatening to topple long-standing principles of collegiate neutrality, potentially sparking strong and enduring anti-wizard sentiments, especially from a growing burgher class of merchants and would-be industrialists.

Gelt bringen uns den kollegiumtod!

Age of Shitmar has utterly stomped on the sales fantasy made.

You're delusional.

and the setting remains gigagarbage as fuck.
Total warhammer has stomped on the sales AoS made.

Especially if you factor in Vermintide, Mordheim, and that ship game.

>Age of Shitmar has utterly stomped on the sales fantasy made. [citation needed]

Also
>As has been demonstrated, however, the setting itself is quite popular outside the wargame.

But sure, keep sucking GW:s cock as they piss down your throat.

the fact GW is only holding afloat thanks to jewing videogame developers proves you are wrong

and btw, the End Times, as badly accepted as they were, outsold any AoS release, guess the only thing WHFB needed was a bone thrown every once in a while instead of "here's another 40k kit"

delusion is holding on AoS as the lord and savior that WHFB needed

Nevermind that sales has nothing to do with quality or interest, either way. It doesn't matter to any fan of Warhammer Fantasy whether Age of Sigmar is doing well or not (although it's not), because ultimately, GW shat all over the fans and End Times not only attempted to ruin the setting on some kind of principle, for no sensible reason, but Age of Sigmar holds no interest to fans of Warhammer Fantasy.

End Times/Age of Sigmar share some common themes, but in terms of fluff it's completely divergent, and in terms of concept it's completely different.

Age of Sigmar appeals to the lowest common denominators of flashy "epicness", gimmicks and low attention span, with no serious depth or ambiguity to it, whereas Warhammer Fantasy generally appeals to people that would be considered more "hardcore" or "purist", and actually enjoy the idea of a universe of ambiguous power structures, unclear motivations and metaphysical aspects, and mud-covered peasantry slogging it through fields that they will promptly die horrifically in.

These two things are completely incompatible, no matter what sales figures say. Some people enjoy lobster, while others are happy with eating Big Macs for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and can't comprehend what the fuss is about; it's just some kind of crayfish anyway, right?

My gripe is ultimately that there was no financial or sensible reason to shit all over the old fans just because you decided to stop catering to them. They deliberately and knowingly went in and gutted the entirety of the old universe, with wide-scale retcons and utterly nonsensical scenarios, and completely disregarded established tropes, concepts and aspects of the setting and it's fluff.

They could've established their new universe without doing that, but for some spiteful, scornful, bitter reason, they did.

Woodelves soon

>be me
>be introduced to WHFB by my uncle
>watched him play a game in his friends basement and absolutely fell in love with the game
>start building my ogre kingdoms army somewhere near the midpoint of 7th edition
>play weekly
>read battle reports constantly
>love the lore
>love the setting
>move away from the area
>new area has zero WHFB players
>eventually move back
>ogres have a new codex
>"user don't bother getting the new codex, as a new edition will be out soon"
>fall off the game for a while
>return to the game
>now there's this new thing called age of sigmar
Mfw I completely missed my chance to explore the lore and world that I loved more than any IP ever

>Age of Shitmar has utterly stomped on the sales fantasy made.

Hahahaha, oh wow.

iii.co.uk/news-opinion/richard-beddard/games-workshop:-denial

>Games Workshop failed to report the one thing I was looking out for in the half-year to November 2015, an increase in revenue, although on a constant currency basis it did rise (by less than 1%). Operating profit was flat too, although it was rescued by royalty income from other firms, for example app and computer game producers who use Games Workshop’s fantasy worlds. Profit from the sale of miniatures and games, the company’s core business, fell 15%.

iii.co.uk/news-opinion/richard-beddard/games-workshop:-testing-goose-killing-theory

>I would have thought the company would be alive to the risk of killing the goose that lays the golden egg, but Games Workshop has an unusually strong internal culture. That’s usually a good thing, if the culture is open to criticism and capable of adapting. Reading Games Workshops annual reports over the years has left me with me a different impression though. In 2014 Tom Kirby, longstanding chairman, the former chief executive who ran the company during its rapid growth in the 1990’s, said it doesn’t do market research:
>"Our market is a niche market made up of people who want to collect our miniatures. They tend to be male, middle-class, discerning teenagers and adults. We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants. These things are otiose in a niche."

>You're delusional.
Yeah. We're the delusional ones. Pic related.

>create Warhammer fantasy thread to discuss Warhammer fantasy
>faggots ruin thread by still sperging abkut AoS this late in 2016

While it sucks that the wargame is practically dead, most of the old fluff is still there, and there's still lots of shit going on.

If it's your cup of tea, I can really, really recommend Warhammer Roleplay 2nd Edition. At first glance, it looks dated, but it's actually really fucking solid. Far moreso than the later 40k games, even (even if those did come with small improvements).

But if you're not into roleplaying, and really wanted to just have the lore as a backdrop for your wargaming hobby, I feel your fucking pain.

I'll bite. I hear about balance issues in WHFB. I didn't get to play very much but I liked it when I did and it seemed pretty good. What were some of these problems that 7th and 8th had? I only ever got to play 7th

I was a long time D&D player, that promoted my foray into Wargames. Got more into WH when D&D 4th edition came out. I like Rp but getting enough people together for a good game and having them committed to a continued game seems to be a lost cause

I'm currently finishing my search and acquisition of all WHFB books of 6th, 7th and 8th ed, I'm strangely happy that there is an "end" to the amount of stuff I want.
As for armies themselves, once my LM are finished, I'm going to build an empire one with historicals and a few GW stuff.
I'm actually OK with how things are.

This is a comforting sentiment, that there is finally an end to the collection. Unfortunately in my rural area having all that stuff and no one else who plays within 500 miles would be depressing as fuck

I haven't played in years but building and painting and having all that lore is something I enjoy in itself.
It really shows how bad the fluff has become since 6th ed, too.

Getting into the lore was something I was quite excited about. I just lost motivation having no one to play against. At this point I'm thinking I'm just going to start collecting lore, and build a second army so I can play the odd game with a friend here and there.

THEY ARE OUT! RESTARD STEAM!

Please dump them all

...