MTG LEGACY GENERAL

whoops

For some reason that melded with his -12 and I didn't bother proofreading the abilities

I don't even have a legacy deck pls no bully

Thanks for the new thread and new rule. I really thought my "ignore shitposters" rule would cover it but I guess I have too much faith in people.

I'd be mightily pleased if mystical tutor got unbanned. Feel like that would really help out combo.

Unban all non-power cards. Make legacy great again.

My LGS does a legacy weekly, and for the last several months I've been playing ANT. The meta seems to be shifting away from that as a viable option, so I'm exploring others.

What's a deck I can work, given I have 36 hours to assemble and learn how to play it?

Shifting how? Burn is quick and easy to pick up and if you're ant you have the core of most other combo decks.

I think he means the local meta. And also how decks that should not be viable like eldrazi are becoming a thing and utilizing cripling htings like Chalice and trinisphere.

More like people are dedicating a lot more hate than they would to a blind field. Last week lands maindeck'd sphere of resistance in preparation for seeing me.

Burn I considered. I also looked at grixis delver, which is really not that bad in terms of cards I still need to acquire - is it hard to learn, or is it mostly "play a dude or two then protect them with everything else on my opponent's turn"?

That's why I'm asking how it's shifting.

I know that UR delver is basically that. I'm about other variants if there is some nuance to how they play. Could throw together oops with a defensive sideboard to be faster than any hate they main board.

Just play lands, its relatively cheap and doesn't require much skill to play. You can pick it up in the weekend. Miracles is similar.

Yeah but he's losing to lands. Don't want to be a Johnny-come-lately at a hoppin legacy scene, itd be social suicide.

Gotta go faster.
Build TES. It's better against eldruuzi and can handle a Thalia better than ANT G1.

you are right he would be better off playing straight up omnitell. Or if its just for lands hate Belcher.

Omnitell wouldn't be the worst idea. Feels like a combo deck but doesn't fold to most combo hate. Hate-Belcher sounds like a Belcher deck someone had fully altered to look like Mad-Max was a plane.

Omnitell does seem interesting but it looks like there's a lot of variance in decklists.

Does anyone here have experience with the deck?

Fellow storm players, what are your feelings about the Infect matchup? on paper it looks unfavorable as an equally fast combo deck with countermagic, but my record over a relatively small sample size ( maybe 10 matches) is overwhelmingly positive and I'm not sure if I'm just getting lucky.

Play Poops All Spells.

You know you want to.

I've never thought it was a bad matchup. Sometimes it draws into a hand with, like, Elf, Trop, Brainstorm, Force, Force, Flusterstorm, Agent, then draw into something like double-Invigorate and Berserk, but I've never understood why people think it's that bad outside god-hand situations. I don't even bring in anti-permanent stuff, because its only way to disrupt us is with in-hand countermagic.

Also, Ad Nauseam is great.

Yeah I guess it just looks bad. When sideboarding I usually leave my maindeck Decay in, and cut Rain of Filth and a Burning Wish for 2 Flusterstorms and call it a day. I'm not even sure it's right to leave the Decay, since their clock is anemic if they can't combo kill.

That is a pretty looking Jace. I'd pay for that and I don't even play blue.

it's supposed to be slightly unfavorable for us. I've really only played against ant, so I can't speak from experience with the other storm variants. ask the infect players you play against if they're siding out inkmoth nexus. they should be - it's too slow.

I think most infect players I've played side it out but the guy I just destroyed online didn't.

>I also looked at grixis delver, which is really not that bad in terms of cards I still need to acquire - is it hard to learn, or is it mostly "play a dude or two then protect them with everything else on my opponent's turn"?

Grixis is a tempo deck, so it's both things that you said.

Sometimes you get the "Delver draw", which is casting a Delver T1, it blind flipping, and then you counter everything as you kill them with it plus Lightning Bolts/ Young Pyromancers

However, it can definitely shift gears. It has multiple Cabal Therapies and can be more controlling against Combo decks, but it applies a ton of pressure so it has inevitability.

I'd say it's a decently difficult deck to play compared to stuff like Show/Tell, but in the grand scheme of Legacy I'd say it's 3.5/5 in complexity. The hardest part of the deck is that it lacks true "card advantage" unless you have a Painful Truths in the board, so you have to be really smart about what you do.

>If Jace has no counters, bury Jace
Fixed that for You
Also shit frame/10 stop being nostalfag

>been away from Veeky Forums for two weeks
>see top article on TCGPlayer is about "New fan format Frontier"
>no Modern general on Veeky Forums

Did... did Modern finally die while I wasn't looking?

link to the TCGPlayer "New Fan Format" thing

Yes, and they all decided to flood our >/comfy/ general

magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13659&writer=Corbin Hosler&articledate=12-6-2016

>2015 and after

do people enjoy playing yu ghi oh?

Don't delver decks have miserable lands matchups? If he wants to beat the lands player he probably shouldn't switch to grixis delver

Nah, but I enjoy playing Goblins. The deck is only like $40 to build. Plus DTT and Cruise are legal again.

>Don't delver decks have miserable lands matchups? If he wants to beat the lands player he probably shouldn't switch to grixis delver

Yeah it's pretty bad, it gets better after sideboarding depending on what you're playing. I do

+1 Pithing Needle (for Thespian's Stage)
+2 Surgical Extraction (Loams, Punishing Fire, or combo piece)
+1 Sulfuric Vortex
+1 Kolaghan's Command / Ancient Grudge (Depends on meta)

Then I'll subtract both Cabal Therapies as well as Murderous Cut and a Bolt and Daze.

I think that gives you a middling chance to lock them out of the game and to crush their lock pieces. It's a lot of sideboarding though, so yeah it's not great.

It's tricky. On one hand you want to try and outspeed them, on the other hand they play 4 daze, 4 force and some play 2-3 flusterstorm in the board.

Last week I got paired with infetc twice. Both times they got a 2nd turn kill one game, and the other game they won by poking for 2 infect five times while having all the counterspells.

Oops was my first introduction to legacy. I moved to ANT because I hated losing turn 1 every game my opponent has 2 answers and I can't draw any therapys.

I'm done with that shit.

I played Mardu Pyromancer for a while in modern, it feels rather similar.

>I played Mardu Pyromancer for a while in modern, it feels rather similar.

Nice, yeah I also play Grixis Pyromancer Delver in Modern and the gameplan is essentially the same, although more clunky but also requires more decision making imo

Young Peezy is one of the coolest creatures ever made, it spawned deck variants in every format it's in

Yeah. What is keeping grixis delver from being a thing in modern? Is it the lack of cheap counters?

>Yeah. What is keeping grixis delver from being a thing in modern? Is it the lack of cheap counters?

Well, right now it's T2, so it's pretty good and has game against some of the T1 decks like Affinity, Jund and Infect.

It's a combination of 2 factors: shit counters, and shit draw. If Daze was reprinted, deck would probably go up to T 1.5. If Brainstorm was reprinted, deck would be T1 tomorrow. Even Preordain would go a long ways to making the deck better.

Obviously, they can't do that because of Infect. However, it'd be a net benefit in the matchup of Delver vs Infect.

The dudes who rep it a lot like Kevin Jones/Ryan Overturf make it T1.5 imo

Personally I'm happy with its position in Modern right now as a deck that can compete against the super fast degenerate decks as well as being able to go big/wide/low

Tl;dr you're right, cheap counters keep it from being better, but it's also shit draw

that's fair.

I'm probably going to build legacy delver for tomorrow night. It seems like it should work with my playstyle and it'll be a shot out of left field.

is this decklist good or should I alter some things?

i like the full 4 therapy in the 75, some people like true name nemesis in the board, but other than that the list looks pretty stock. If you are expecting a lot of eldrazi, I would up the dismember count. Also, even though it is very popular right now, I don't like winter orb for miracles. I prefer cards that actually do things

I've played 1 round against that "Winter Orb RUG Delver" deck and I won 2-1. Never felt like Orb was what lost me game 2, rather that I just didn't draw lands. If Miracles hits every land drop for the first 5-6 turns of the game, Stasis effects do literally nothing.

To add, I think Null Rod is much more effective piece of hate than Winter Orb.

Shooting-star old-border foils > *

bamp from the graev

>DTT and cruise in a format with no acceleration combos and shitty creatures

thats like allowing yawgmoth's bargain in a set only constructed. Its pointless.

>bury
Bury only applies to creatures. For example, if you look at the wording on Pestilence, it's "discard."

UNBANNING OF FUN WHEN?

What card(s) do you want unbanned?

Flame tongue kavu

No shitposting please.

Literally anything. Something to shake up the meta, I am tired of delver and miracles. Make legacy great again.

Now for real:

Necropotence

Thats right I said it unban the skull.

Academy + the retardedly overpowered artifacts (not power).

Tinker, windfall, jar, library

I accepted payment for something in the form of a set of goyfs (MM2, shiny thingy at bottom so probably not chinamanese counterfeits), since I already have two modern decks I thought they could serve as the $400 starting point of a legacy deck. What are some decks that run goyf?

Literally the only decks I know in the entire format are
>burn
>miracles
>shardless bug
>reanimator
>D&T

but shardless looks hellaexpensive so I want to consider my options first

i can agree with 'potence, but why academy?
it's not a singleton copy of it like vintage, and we have much more ability to cantrip, it'd be in general better than vintage academy decks in all likelyhood

thats exactly why. If you say it would be too much because of affinity then yes maybe you have a point. But academy as a deck itself would be tier 2 at best, with the current blue heavy counterspell heavy meta. It will fuel retarded blue combo decks though.

Shardless plays Goyf, BUG Delver plays Goyf, Jund plays Goyf. That's about it for good decks that play Goyf.

it'd be very busted i'm pretty sure.
i'd say unban necropotence, and survival ban jtms, and jitte.

Anyone here ever play Goblins? Seems like a fun deck to pilot, it seems a little more then just playing shitty little goblers and swinging until the die hits zero. It's more of a prison/combo deck if I'm not mistaken.

Bring back Tolarian Academy. Make Storm great again.

w-what about RUG delver?

It is. I really like Goblins, and I came really close to finishing it before I realized I needed a quad of Wasteland and Port. Sold the better part of the deck (sans those lands, obv.) for a Tropical Island a while ago.

Moggcatcher builds look pretty rad.

Litterally ban counterbalance for fucks sake

Why? How can people hate miracles so bad to want to destroy it. Countertop was a deck before miracles. If they want to kill the deck then they should ban the miracles cards

How does banning counterbalance not kill the deck what the fuck

I don't play legacy, but I was watching the SCG open and why are these nimrods using fucking ultra pro sleeves for these decks that are worth more than thousands of dollars? Not even the half-way decent normal mattes either, the shitty glossy ones with illustrations. Is it sponsorships?

The difficulty with Miracles is that it's easily the best deck in the format (even though it folds to some pretty hilolrious things like Dredge), but it doesn't have any single cards that make it dominate. It's the whole package. Sure, Terminus is important; sure, Counterbalance and Top are important. But there's not a single card that pushes the deck over the threshold, so there's no single ban that would even things out without knocking the deck out of the format.

If there's a deck that desperately needs a dressing down, it's Miracles. But I hate bans, and there's no single ban that would do that without nixing the whole deck.

Their cards are probably double-sleeved.

the only card I want to see gone is miracles. I can live with the rest of the BS but an on demand, often instant speed wrath for 1cmc is just over the fucking line in terms of value. its the best fucking card in the whole deck

make them play 4cmc wraths like the rest of us.

oops. I'm sure this is obvious from context but I meant terminus.

i agree, its ridiculous that it also gets around indestructible, persists, etc. I also think that since a ban would buff creature decks, it will allow for another unban to help out combo/spells decks (maybe mystical tutor?)

Much as I'd love to have Mystical Tutor to throttle forward my combo shenanigans, I think that'd be a pretty scary card to bring into the format. Top alone turns it into a 1-mana Demonic Tutor for Force/Surgical Extraction/whatever.

But then again, maybe that's for the best.

Todays's MTGO tournament practice room blog post/report: 5-1

Round 1: Infect (2-1)
G1 they get stuck on mana and I take away their Force and a pump spell to buy a turn to kill. G2 I eat a speedy combo kill. G3 they keep a slow but hateful hand. I have plenty of discard and work my way through it.

Round 2: Miracles (2-0)
G1 I Duress on the play, take CB, follow it up with a Therapy, take a Force. They tap out for a Mentor. I kill them. G2 I duress and cantrip, and on t3 I have 2x Doomsday in hand. I know they only 1 counterspell. I hardcast doomsday to eat a counterspell. Next turn hardcast the second, it gets Snap Counterspelled. next turn topdeck a 3rd DDay. It resolves. I win with an emrakul pile.

Round 3: Budget Black Pox (0-2)
G1 I eat a dick to variance. Probably spun top about a jillion times and just counldn't find business in either game while my opponent devours my manabase and beats down with a factory over 10 turns. G2 was similar but I died more swiftly because of a Tombstalker.

Rounds 4 and 4a: GB Depths Loam (2-1)
G1 I lose in similar fashion to Round 2. I get salty and leave the match. Host a new one and the same player joins again. Pseudo G2 (since it's pre-board) I fetch a basic swamp to be able to spin top and cast discard spells, and just sit on my fetches until I draw into a kill. G3 they entomb for Loam and drops a dark depths early but I kill early before they can find the other half of the combo.

Round 5: Elves (2-1)
G1 I goldfish on turn 2. Game 2 I get goldfished on turn 3 despite Duressing a Glimpse. Game 3 I duress to see a hand of double Thoughtseize, Therapy, Natural Order. I take NO and drop my 2 LEDs. My hand gets shredded but I fetch a red source, topdeck a Wish, and build a pass the turn pile for the win since they had no clock.

Round 6: Painter (1-0)
I fetch basics and am able to kill through bloodmoon before they combo. Have to take a phone call so no sideboarded games.

So it depends on your meta obviously.

Personally I like Murderous Cut a lot more than Dismember, especially vs Eldrazi and infect, although against Infect, Forked Bolt is sick.

I gauge based off of your sideboard plus maindeck that you're going against a lot of weenie decks.

Overall list is pretty stock with some personal alterations which is good by me. If you're playing against a lot of creature based decks, try replacing Vendilion with True Name Nemesis. You might even try siding in an Umezawa's Jitte.

Let me know how it goes!

>To add, I think Null Rod is much more effective piece of hate than Winter Orb.

Grixis Delver doesn't have a lot in can side in vs Miracles, but Winter Orb has historically done a lot of work in the matchup.
RUG Delver is also way worse than Grixis at applying pressure because it has worse creatures. It's too tempo, if that can even be a thing.

>Litterally ban counterbalance for fucks sake

As I think I said last thread, there's no need to ban anything from Miracles. Solely by unbanning Dig Through Time, you slacken the grip of Miracles. The consequence of course is that the format becomes more blue.

well i don't remember the format that well back when it was legal, but back then i believe you could crack leds in your upkeep to pay for the spell in your draw step, so it was a lot better. plus it is still card disadvantage, so fair decks don't really want it as much

Canadian treshold > grixis delver
Anyway miracles is not a problem in the meta. Not at least for enchantress and Death and taxes

my problem with winter orb is that it is a two mana investment that doesn't do anything. it doesn't apply pressure, it doesn't stop counterbalance, it doesn't help you win the game. I would much rather just be playing a pyromancer.

>back then i believe you could crack leds in your upkeep to pay for the spell in your draw step

Make Legacy great again.

Wat do yuo think of this winter orb + root maze deck on the mtgs legacy forum?

mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/developing-legacy/763600-the-shining-winter-maze-mini-primer

looks good if you want to cheese out some wins against slower fair decks but get stomped by combo, just like every other meme deck

It's better than Elves and Miracles, but that's about it. Every other deck destroys it.

>Round 2: Miracles (2-0)
>G1 I Duress on the play, take CB, follow it up with a Therapy, take a Force. They tap out for a Mentor. I kill them. G2 I duress and cantrip, and on t3 I have 2x Doomsday in hand. I know they only 1 counterspell. I hardcast doomsday to eat a counterspell. Next turn hardcast the second, it gets Snap Counterspelled. next turn topdeck a 3rd DDay. It resolves. I win with an emrakul pile.
Perfect example of why Mentor Miracles is the inferior build. Can't deal with cheaty-fatty decks/strategy as well as a hybrid (or even Legends) running Karakas. Also, tapping out for Mentor often does literally nothing, especially against combo.

I disagree. It appears the Miracles guy didn't have any other options there. I guess having Clique would've been better in game 1, but only rarely have I found Venezuelan Legends to really hit home like that. Mentors are a lot faster in my (limited) experience.

>Venezuelan legends
Oh god I'm dying.

I agree with mentor miracles being an inferior build but I still love him in the main with EtA.

Do you mind posting your list? I just wanna cross reference mine

then hit one of those golems with a rite of replication while you're at it

Apologies in advance for XMage layout

NAME:miracles
3 [LEB:300] Tundra
4 [CHK:268] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [AVR:20] Entreat the Angels
2 [LEB:302] Volcanic Island
2 [WWK:31] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 [ISD:78] Snapcaster Mage
4 [KTK:233] Flooded Strand
4 [ALL:42] Force of Will
1 [ZEN:211] Arid Mesa
4 [ICE:278] Swords to Plowshares
1 [MOR:55] Vendilion Clique
2 [MMQ:69] Counterspell
1 [5DN:118] Engineered Explosives
1 [LEG:248] Karakas
1 [CNS:16] Council's Judgment
4 [CSP:31] Counterbalance
4 [MMQ:61] Brainstorm
4 [AVR:38] Terminus
4 [ZEN:223] Scalding Tarn
2 [EURO:9] Plains
3 [M10:68] Ponder
4 [EURO:7] Island
SB: 1 [OGW:98] Kozilek's Return
SB: 2 [DGM:135] Wear // Tear
SB: 1 [C14:5] Containment Priest
SB: 1 [DRK:57] Blood Moon
SB: 2 [CMD:46] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [FRF:20] Monastery Mentor
SB: 1 [LEG:197] Moat
SB: 1 [PLS:116] Meddling Mage
SB: 3 [ICE:213] Pyroblast
SB: 1 [RTR:18] Rest in Peace

Interesting, I see more and more lists playing engineered explosives main deck. Is it really so useful as to play main deck?

That slot used to be Spell Pierce. Ever since I made the switch about 4 months ago I haven't looked back. It's just a good catch-all. Hits Chalice, hits Young Pyro, hits Mongoose, hits just about every hate card out there (3sphere, Thorn, Thalia, etc). It's REALLY good.

thoughts on this MUD list

// 60 Maindeck
// 20 Artifact
4 Grim Monolith
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Staff of Nin
2 Spine of Ish Sah
2 Coercive Portal

// 16 Creature
1 Sundering Titan
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
1 Steel Hellkite
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Phyrexian Revoker

// 22 Land
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Inventors' Fair
2 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost

// 2 Planeswalker
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

// 15 Sideboard
// 14 Artifact
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 3 Tsabo's Web
SB: 2 Smokestack
SB: 2 Tangle Wire

// 1 Planeswalker
SB: 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

I think MUD is just worse than Eldrazi

this deck will become viable when mishras workshop is unbanned

>WHEN mishras workshop is unbanned
>implying

Is there any good plains for 12 post and how do I build one without candelabras. Not shelling out 350 a copy fuck that

Most 12 Post only run 2 anyway but the UG version is best imo