Imperium Asunder

That's actually something that has never been completely clear to me. In the IA, the Council of Nikaea is not about any sort of warpfuckery, but Oramar's xenofuckery, right?

I think it's both.

The Emperor is like "ORAMAR you little turd, you've been using xenotech and trafficking with malefic warp entities, this is not allowed. I will now send you home with what appears to be a slap on the wrist, but then send Balthasar after you. Also, everyone will now have chaplains to watch their psykers and make sure they're not slipping into sorcery or tech-heresy. Don't make me send Balthasar or Aodhan after you, sons. I'm looking at you, Xun and Anshul and to a lesser extent Anders."

It's about two issues.

Oramar is as much a sorcerer as a xenoarcheologist. IIRC Alexios wrote about the tribes on his planet believing in jinns and Oramar and his more skilled disciples summoning daemons as familiars.

But Oramar isn't really a sorcerer, is he? He's a psyker, yes, but he doesn't throw lightning and fire everywhere, he uses it to give himself advantages in physical combat.

He looks into the future, contacts daemons for knowledge, etc.

He doesn't do combat sorcery like fireballs and stuff (though he does apparently teleport around and do subtle TK/time manipulation stuff), but he does plenty of ritual shit outside of fighting.

Anshul is an epic level psion. Xun is a high level spellsword. Oramar is a high level psychic warrior/rogue multiclass with experience dumped into knowing more arcana and rituals.

I think really it's a combination of sorcery and Xenotech and it all has too much of a chaotic bent, but it's couched in such a way as to be a warning for sorcerors and xeno interaction in general.

It sounds scary and Anshul and Xun aren't deeply effected by it, but Xun mostly uses it as an excuse to requisition more Custodes. He's got the attitude that he's not doing anything wrong and he'll show them.

Not sure what happens with Anshul.

And Anders.

Sounds right.

Wasnt he meant to be a freedom fighter. When did he change to pirate?

>requisition more custodes
The fuck? Why would they be anywhere but with the emperor or possibly very short temporary jobs away?

They arent lasguns you dont just order a couple more in to boost your combat power.

Keep in mind a custode fought evenly with a primarch for a time. And their whole oath is to serve noone but the emperor. They are literally outside the chain of imperial command much like commissars.

I thought the sand people were sand pirates?

I was thinking about Lorgar under surveillance by the Custodes. If the Emperor doesn't trust Xun and wants him watched, Xun's the type to declare he has nothing to hide and invite in the Custodian guard. They're preferable to the Wardens of the Eyes and I'm thinking Custodes and Sisters are better trained to police warp activity.
For his part, Xun still sees Custodes as symbols of Imperial authority.
Requesting Imperial oversight allows him to declare his loyalty to the Emperor while staying out of the Warmaster's orbit of control. He's basically declaring that he's so loyal, the hand of the Emperor himself will be at his side and not need to alter things.
Tacitly arrogant, justified as a display of loyalty.

Anshul, on the other hand, shrugs, decides it's not worth fighting, and accepts the Wardens.

>Who are the important people in his youth and how does his legion respond to him?

Man, I'm pretty sure Alexios had a whole bunch of these guys written up.

Sure would be a good time for him to pop up.

...

Bump

Alexios we summon ye

If he doesn't show soon, do we want to save this and then move on to the next guy? Which would be Engerand. After him is Enoch.

I vote move on and return to Oramar when Alexios shows himself.

Also Doc, Raydon's history has been added to the Hawks wiki page.

So Engerand next, yeah? Radioactive ghouls on Loestregia?

I dont actually recall anything about his finding or youth.

Cool, you're the best.

Thankfully Engerand already has quite the backstory. So it'd be great if someone could either whip up a summary, or we just read the Storm Hammers page. Isn't the problem with Oramar also going to be a factor here? The absence of Engerand himself?

>the problem with Oramar also going to be a factor here? The absence of Engerand himself?
Not sure I understand what you mean

Just like how we moved on with Oramar because Alexios isn't here, should we not wait for Engerand (the person) to be here before we do Engerand (the primarch).

Also, I just found out the Crimson Warhawks are a quidditch team. How about that?

After reading the wiki, it really seems like Engerand's youth on Lostregia and his discovery have been fully covered. There are probably a few things we could add - I remember someone saying that one of the iconic pieces of mythic imagery for the legion is Engerand charging the gates of Bellognatus' fortress and smiting them down with his hammer - but on the whole his days in the wild are pretty put together.

If we're going to talk about anything, it should be his introduction into the Imperium and his initial duties/campaigns.

If I remember correctly, Engerand is the first primarch discovered after Rubinek gets the boot. That could kind of set the tone for his initial meetings with his brothers?

That could be interesting.

Maybe as early as this we start to see divisions emerge, with different Primarchs approaching Engerand differently so as to prevent another Rubinek situation. Some want to make sure he knows to be careful, while others are more concerned with establishing absolute loyalty.

Neeeerds.

This just in: Crimson Warhawks fondle balls. They also beat each other's balls with clubs.

The Sky Serpents is also the name of Duke Sliscus' kabal in the OU.

Yeah, but they're not Spess Maroons, so nobody cares.

So, which Primarchs did Engerand meet first, and how did that go?

I could see he and Sarco getting along smashingly, especially since Engerand was there when Sarco got boxed by the phantom. Maybe they campaigned together a lot.

Enoch, then?

Good idea. Might be worth figuring out just what his censure event looks like. Is there a trial/council?

I suggest then we take a step back, determine in just a few words how each primarch would have interacted with Engerand post Rubinek. And then determine his mentor / finder from there.

Eg.
>Raydon
Having just lost one of his closer brothers he is very cautious about Engerand. Not wanting to become close to save himself from the loss of another brother from within.

In which case, what happens with Rubinek-- trial? Does he get disappeared? Who finds him?

I think post Rubinek, people are going to be a bit more obsessive about purity and archaotech.

Emps doesn't physically bring him to trial, he learn of Rubinek's tech-heresy through Imperial intelligence or because another Primarch alerted him.

He sends Balthasar after him before telling anyone else of the matter, hoping to vanish Rubinek and keep those in the know to a minimum. The Bloodhounds however are repelled and shit spirals out of control.

OK then. I think that would create a major sense of paranoia. Who is the snitch, etc.

How does this get played out to the other Primarchs.

If they find out that Balthasar has gone after Rubinek it would seem to them that he is infact the traitor wouldnt it?

What do they get told?

I'm guessing the truth has to out to preserve unity. Big E has already lost one Primarch to this fiasco, he can't risk a bunch of Balthasar's brothers getting the wrong idea and teaming up to tear him apart.

Do we want to confirm the snitch's identity? Or leave it vague?

Maybe the truth never comes to light and the the Emperor just tells everyone that 'Imperial intelligence' discovered Rubinek's deviancy, but there are a lot of suspicions and a few Primarchs seem pretty overtly satisfied with how things played out despite the confusion.

I imagine a few people might suspect Faustus or Alexios, since they have a monumental shared boner for genetic purity, whereas others might be glancing sidelong at The Heir, seeing as he's the sneakmaster. Maybe the Warmaster manages to get most people thinking of Faustus as the snitch, partially assisted by how eager Faustus seems to insist that The Heir must have been responsible whenever he meets one of his brothers.

I think we should identify who /almost certainly/ did it, and from there we can hurl accusations at everyone else.

Yeah, I think they would need to have some sort of appeasement annoucement - you can't go around killing your own without a very good reason, without everyone else taking up arms.

Well then, I guess the obvious choice for snitch is the Warmaster. Secret police mehreens ans such.

But as said above, Alexios and Faustus have pretty solid motives.

Aaaaand it could be Oramar. He's already siphoning snippets of the future from daemon advisors and casting his gaze across time with stolen xenotech. Maybe he 'knows' it's important that Rubinek has to go. Maybe he foresees his tech sins coming out more explosively later and violently dividing the Primarchs. Or maybe he's already hit the deep end and he's setting Rubinek up as for his later role in the Heresy.

Might also be useful to list out the suspects. Who actually is around at the time?

Well, the list I've got is

1. The Warmaster
2. Faustus
3. Raydon
4. Alexios
5. Marcus
6. Sarco
7. Rubinek
8. Aodhan
9. Klaus
10. Balthasar
11. Saul
12. Enoch
13. Engerand
14. Xun
15. Anders
16. Kashaln
17. Oramar
18. Anshul
19. Gengrat
20. Graha'nak

Where do we put this event on here?

Between Enoch and Engerand around M30.100

I am risen from the ashes of finals week

This is a pretty good summary

>Anshul is an epic level psion. Xun is a high level spellsword. Oramar is a high level psychic warrior/rogue multiclass with experience dumped into knowing more arcana and rituals.
This is a good breakdown of their differences.

idk where you got the idea of him as a freedom fighter. He's a pirate and most of the people on his planet are nomads who are basically like nice pirates.

>based on Lawrence of Arabia
>Lawrence of Arabia: Death of a Freedom Fighter

I think this is why

that's just what he looks like tho
I haven't even seen that movie

makes sense, just saying that might be where the confusion came from.

I know we're doing very productive primarch reviews but for funsies this is a good prompt idea:

Describe a primarch in terms of a D&D character.

Pre-interment: Barbarian

Post-interment: Revenant fighter

So what did you think of the summations of Oramar from last thread?

Cool.
That'd mean Alexios, Faustus, and the Warmaster would be likely intentional snitches, but it's also quite possible that Marcus or Sarco could have said something that got him into trouble without meaning to. Raydon, I don't think talks. :P

In saying that. I can see a twisted dark version where Raydon says something innocent that leads to the eventual excommunication. He would never intentionally betray him obviously. And would actively fight against the idea of purging his brothers. But it seems like a good dark twisted story to have him say something innocent to say alexios or faustus or whatever and have it snow ball.

It also fits his tragic story.

IRT this story. Im pretty out of it right now. Take everything with a pound of salt

Holy shit let's have Rubinek confront whoever calls himout and have a total beatsdown infront of an audience.

Someone who backs him can go full punisher v capt america in that they get pumpled without fighting back. Adn an antago ist can get the shit beat out of them

Nah, I like it. It's not like the legion didn't know that being wiped out was a possibility.
I think in this AU it's common knowledge amongst astartes and the like that the Thunder Warriors were replaced because they weren't viable for the long haul. Pargashtan Grendel, speaking for his brothers, asks the Emperor about it and the Emperor promises that if their primarch can't stabilize their gene-seed, he will grant them honorable death in combat. Skorban is cynical about that, but the legion accepts it and hopes that if they can't be saved, they can die with glory. At the same time, there's probably an office in the legion, proto chaplain apothecaries who grant the Emperor's peace to those the worst off.
Ooh, yeah. Skorban the Cripple is chief of this corps and has the bitter duty of putting down his brothers and extracting what gene seed he can. As a result, he knows that extermination protocols are in place and has carried them out on more than one occasion, particularly since a brother degrading often loses their mental faculties.

Point is, everyone knows there's a chance that the Iron Hearts may go extinct or fall so far that they must be purged despite the Emperor's promise. As soon as word gets around about Rubinek, the question of whether he too is a mutant and whether or not he really can stabilize his legion is everywhere. So all the primarchs and potentates know that Rubinek will be judged and his legion with him. Either it's ok, or a purge is coming.
There's probably a spread of reactions. Rubinek is pissed, he resents it. He never asked to be put in charge of a legion and to be judged in their place. He never asked to he a savior or their damnation. Grendel is fanatically loyal. He thinks Rubinek has saved the legion and the Emperor will see that.
Skorban believes the legion is damned one way or another. Skorban is a tricky guy, I think.

I'll come back to Skorban, but I think the legion knows the Judgement is coming and the other primarchs are aware of it too. They're not naive and they know this is a problem legion and they have heard the rumors about Rubinek.
So the primarchs either distance themselves from it, they want no part in what is to come. Marcus, I think, might find Rubinek hits a little too close to home.
But others want to get to know him to judge for themselves, to be ready if they are called by the Emperor. In the end, the Emperor acts unilaterally or something, but if it happens in conclave, we can have that fight scene.

It might be interesting if the Emperor is true to his word in a literal sense. Instead of exterminating the legion on the conclave world, he allows Rubinek, Grendel, and Skorban to return to their home world and sics Balthasar on them, granting them death in battle, just as promised.

On a side note, should we bump up Balthasar? Swap him with Aodhán, maybe, since Aodhán doesn't meet Rubinek until much later.

>Skorban the Cripple
I'm trying to resurrect part of an old primarch proposal, in part. Skorban was sort of a proto Rubinek, flawed and mutated, with a lot of sympathy for baseline humans.
In this incarnation, Skorban would be the chief apothecary and chaplain of the Iron Hearts before Rubinek. He executes the mutated and the mad, of which there are always too many, as well as trying to fix the gene seed problems. I'm imagining him as a grim fatalist.
He believes the legion is doomed even Rubinek doesn't change that. Instead, he's determined to keep it running as long as possible. So when the order comes down to disband, he's not surprised, but he's also totally on board for resisting, spite for a wasted life.
He's hoping to die well, but to his chagrin survives into the Exile and the heresy. I'm thinking as time goes on he takes a strange, bitter, humanistic view on things, improving out of spite.

All you americunts are asleep. Get the fuck up im on an inspirational role right now.

How about Rubinek demands to see his accuser at the trial.

And either A nobody comes and he monologues like shylock and if someone does he fucks them up

Skorban seems very interesting to me. If he survives the Heresy, what would he do afterwards? Follow his legion or follow his own path?
Well, I doubt this will fit, nor am I sure if the Second Sons were fully formed by the time of the trial, but I'll post my idea anyways.

Should he attend the Trial as the Chief Librarian of The Second Sons, I'd say if things go too far, Cyrus would either plead for him to calm down, if not for them, at least for his legion... Or take the blame. It could even be the turning point that began his slow spiral into madness,as something within him died that day.

I might have kind of gone overboard...

Balthasar
>Fighter/Barbarian/Bloodhound
Raydon
>Fighter/Tactical Solder
Marcus
>Fighter/Expert/Battlesmith
Kashaln
>Fighter (with everything invested in spear related feats)
Oramar
>Psychic warrior/psychic rogue
Engerand
>Barbarian/Crusade
Enoch
>Barbarian/Deepwarden/Dwarven Defender
Graha'nak
>Rokugan ninja/Assassin
Faustus
>Cloistered cleric/Combat medic
Anders
>Paladin of Honor (Holy Warrior variant)/Knight of the Crown
Saul
>Marshal/Legendary Leader
Alexios
>Archivist/Loremaster
Xun
>Duskblade
Gengrat
>Artificer
Anshul
>Telepath Psion/Meditant
REDACTED
>Factotum/Spymaster
Rubinek
>Fighter/Warforged Juggernaut
Sarco
>Barbarian/Ranger
Aodhán
>Fighter/Barbarian/Paladin of Freedom (Holy Warrior variant)
Klaus
>Knight/Crusader

>Aodhán
IIRC there's a fighter subclass in 4e that is specialized in killing singular, powerful foes.

>Anshul
Psion, duh.

Should Rubinek have a trial? It seems like if he was found wanting in front of everyone Emps would just kill him then and there.

Although I guess he could send Rubinek on a penitent quest and then throw Balthasar at him without telling anyone.

Eyyy Alexios who were some of Oramar's companions that later became spass maroons?

>Skorban the Cripple

Hadn't heard of this guy so far. Sounds cool.

Here's a thing I have saved. Not all of them are Azrimuthi though.

>Kabals of the Warp Raiders
There are many Cabals of warpcraft among the Warp Raiders, but the five distinguished Cabals of the Sahabat are the most honored, and arguably the most valuable

>Ja'far Aqrab, Master of the Silver Mask Kabal
Ja'far wields mighty scorpion claws recovered from the armories of Azrimuth. His cabal teaches the art of Telepathy. Ja'far maintained close ties to Imperial Navigator houses, and members of his cabal often serve as astrotelepaths for the Warp Raiders, facilitating long distance communications. Those who have truly mastered the art of the Silver Mask can employ their telepathy for illusory purposes, creating phantom enemies or making themselves temporarily invisible. His familiar is known to change forms every time you blink.

>Khalid Al'Ghul, Master of the Crimson Flame Kabal
Khalid wields a power spear, and favors jump packs in combat. His cabal teaches the art of pyromancy. Khalid has a fetish for destruction, and delights in the obliteration of his enemies. Among the Sahabat, Khalid could be said to be the only one who is truly, evil. While Oramar and his kin made dark pacts with chaos in order to defeat them, Khalid himself secretly wished to help them destroy realspace. Some men just want to watch the world burn. His familiar burns with rage, often taking the form of a dragon.

>Mu'adh Ib, Master of the White Spider
Mu'adh wields a pair of haywire pistols. His cabal teaches the art of teleportation and warp translation. Cabalites of the White Spider can tear holes in the veil of reality, allowing physical entrance into warpspace. Mu'adh's cabal often jumps erratically across the battlefield, sowing chaos and confusion. The White Spiders also serve an important role on Warp Raider vessels, facilitating the translation into the warp for long distance travel. Mu'adh's familiar often takes the form of a white spider with long spindly legs.

>Jabal Kaine, Master of the Black Void
Jabal wields a howling wraithbone blade whose sonic discord is a powerful weapon in its own right. His cabal teaches the art of negation, defending themselves and others from sorcery. Cabalites of the Black Void are highly resistent to psychic powers, can resist the corruptive influence of daemons, and those who have mastered the school can even banish physically manifested daemons. Jabal Kaine himself stays loyal to the emperor, believing his Primarch's any-means-necessary attitude was callous and arrogant. His familiar takes the form of a black wolf.

>Umar Djeric, Master of the Blue Lotus
Umar wields a powerful Hrud cannon whose blasts create temporal distortions. His cabal teaches the art of telekenesis, moving objects with their minds. The favored battlefield tactic of Blue Lotus Cabalites is to use their powers on themselves, flying over the battlefield with heavy weapons and psychic assaults. Their powers can also be used aggressively, however, stopping enemies in their tracks or even crushing their bones from a distance. His familiar takes the form of a small blue monkey.

>Khazyr Akna, Master of the Darklight Palace Cabal
The Cabal is named after an enormous Eldar Dark Matter mining station, found lost in the lower Immaterium. The cabal uses the harvested dark matter not only to produce crude approximations of Dark Matter weapons, but also as a powerful reagent for equally dark sorceries. Suspected relation to the Black Suns. Khazyr's familiar is an iridescent black serpent, whose end always seems to be just out of sight.

>Mu'ad Ib
>Not the desert mouse

You had one job, Alexios, one job.

He was one of the primarch ideas that didn't make it and it just now occurred to me he might make a neat seed for an Iron Heart.

I like to avoid reference consistency. So, if I reference Mu'ad ib for a name,I don't have other references to Paul Atreiedes in that character, otherwise he just becomes a less interesting Paul Atreiedes.

Wait, what are we doing right now?

Oramar?

We were looking over Oramar, but we seem to have a pretty solid story assembled for his origin, as well as a pretty varied cast to dot throughout his story. Really we just need to format this stuff and drop it in the wiki.

Same for Engerand. His origin is pretty well fleshed out and already written up.

So... who's next?

Enoch.

Sorry, I'm kind of out of it today. Enoch kind of always acted like the Warmaster's henchman, right? What makes him servile in this way?

He's the one who lived alone on a desert planet for x years right? Maybe the Warmaster was the one who found him so he'd just that greateful to the guy who saved him from an eternity of being sandblasted.

I think he's also just a needy guy. Always afraid of rejection and abandonment. Emperor pushes him away to try to get him to become self sufficient, but the Warmaster takes advantage of this opening to make Enoch depend on him, I think.

I think we need to kind of figure out what he did on that particular ball of dust. Clearly there must have been other things on the planet, otherwise he couldn't have survived. I mean, it may seem petty, but what did he eat?

Do primarchs need to eat?

I'm pretty sure they do. I think even the Emperor needs nourishment.

I believe they do, but very rarely.

Enoch probably ate stuff he found growing under the occasional rock.

I dunno, I like the idea and the image of the Emperor finding him on his shitty rock.

I get the impression that his isolation and constant pain, and how the Emperor delivered him from it, is the reason he's so dependent and eager to prove himself. In the early days he's the super loyalist, none purer, because he's starved of approval (and human contact in general) and tries to get it by proving to the Emperor how hardcore and enduring his legion is.

The Emperor doesn't give him an special attention, though, and his legion doesn't get the most decorations or any particular renown for slamming its head against the enemy until both their skulls are thoroughly cracked. His pomp and single-mindedness makes him abrasive to his brothers. So he becomes bitter, and resolves to fight harder (in a way, Enoch is like the Imperium itself - no innovation, no introspection, no change, when they encounter a problem they just do more of what they're already doing), and his envy of his brothers makes him appear aloof and unapproachable.

His willingness to obey an order makes him a great tool for the Warmaster, though, and slowly he becomes the Warmaster's blunt instrument. The Judgement Bringers and the Eyes campaign together a great deal as the Crusade stretches on, with the JB's extreme specialization toward the unsubtle working well to compliment the Eyes' subtlety, and Enoch gradually begins to see the Warmaster as better source for validation that the Emperor.

I really like this. Loneliness really should be Enoch's defining character trait from the very beginning.

Any ideas on his relationship with Sarco? I was thinking maybe Enoch ended the Century Siege because he learned that his brother was comatose, and it was his sole act of defiance to the Warmaster to break off in respect to the Scions.

I could see that happening. Also, post-internment, Enoch and Sarco would share that unyielding, tenacious attitude. There could be something there.

I get the impression they had a pretty professional, solid working rapport. But Enoch unintentionally distanced himself from everyone, even the people he respected, through the way he acted toward them.

So, what was Enoch's first campaign? Who did he fight alongside?

Redacted?
Or maybe I had something about a particularly bad Behemoth Guard campaign. No, wait, that's the campaign before Enoch is found.

How do they actually find Enoch anyway? There is fuck all on the planet, who would even look there? And why? Perhaps a legion lands there during a campaign, hoping to hide in the sandstorms so they can wait for reinforcements? I mean, there would still be quite a bit of luck involved, but atleast it'd be a reason.

That would actually be a pretty fucked up what-if scenario. Enoch wanders the endless sandstorms. Sees a light in the distance, rising up to the sky. He runs towards it. He can just barely spot the last Imperial vessel leave his worthless rock.

The Emperor can sense where the Primarchs are, right? They wouldn't need to come across him randomly.

Can he do that? Could be, I've never heard of it. I imagine it would be possible for him to pick someone out on a planet. He'd still need to have a reason to check the world.

I thought that was how he found most of them so early into the crusade, at least in the OU.

Even if he couldnt one of the others might if they were nearby.

Anshul is powerful enough to scan large swathes of a system and Raydon might pick up on him unconsciously if he was nearby

I'd always assumed that to be the case.
This said, I really like that. The Emperor gets a feeling, sends someone to investigate and then they almost miss him.

Well, during the early Crusade, Emps was out campaigning.

It's not that far-fetched to think that he'd sense Enoch if he was ever relatively nearby, like in the same sector or whatever. Or maybe his rock was useful as a launching point for an invasion of some nearby planet.

Maybe his first campaign was literally days after his discovery, with Emps just going "Well, you're here now, you can start pulling your weight."

>It's not that far-fetched to think that he'd sense Enoch if he was ever relatively nearby, like in the same sector or whatever.

I'm not sure about that. For most of the primarchs in the OU, the Emperor brings their legion when he makes first contact, which to me makes it seem like he knew where they were the whole time.

Bump

So what is the planet called.

How does he think back on his time there. Who does he talk to about it.
What does he do next.

Assuming he has literally no contact with people before being found how crazy is he.

Does he learn well and adapt or struggle with intrapersonal complexity