Avatar Campaign

...

There's an Apocalypse Engine system that's supposed to work pretty well.

Can't say I've heard of that, I'll give it a look.

Legends of the Wulin. It's the best system for high action martial arts I have ever played. It's kinda crunchy and the rule book editing is awful, but when you get the thing running it's fucking fantastic.

It also has elemental martial arts out of the box, which is a plus. It'll require minor tweaking since it uses the Chinese five elements, but still it's not hard to adjust.

That sounds good actually - always had a preference towards crunchy systems, so I'll have to give that one a read through.

...

I forget the name of it, Avatar World or somesuch. Threads about it used to pop up now and then back when Veeky Forums could still discuss Apocalypse World based games without shitposters spamming the threads.

>50605111
Aaand I'm out of images. Thanks for the suggestions.

LotW is a bit unusual in terms of crunchy systems. Instead of focusing on granular detail, it builds off the themes and style of the genrej, letting your characters ideas, beliefs and relationships be just as important in combat as your martial arts skills. It marries somewhat narrativist (bad word but it'll do) with a depth of mechanics which I've honestly never seen before.

Although it is worth reiterating just how bad the core book editing is. Christ it's so fucking bad, it's an utter shame they released the book in that state, and then the company imploded so it'll never be updated.

My group once was going to do an Avatar game using a simple homebrew I created for it.

When it came to sessions 0, they argued over who would get to be the Avatar for three hours, decided to do some other game instead, and went home.

My suggestion to you is bypass the three hours of arguing, and just do something else. leave the franchise where it is.

This is actually one of the few times that I would strongly recommend FATE.
Normally FATE feels insubstantial and the mechanics or themes of any given setting would be better served by a system more tailored to it.
But in this case FATE is practically tailored to the Avatar setting. The system lets you get creative with what you can do with bending, keeps the combat flowing and organic, and the adventures lighthearted and semi-episodic. All stay true to the feeling of Avatar, and all are fairly unique to FATE

I ran an Avatar campaign in FATE and was really satisfied with it, way more than any other experience I've had with the system

Pretty much most generic systems would work. Legends of the Wulin would work nicely as a previous user stated.

I ran a LoK-age Avatar game, it was a resounding success; I used GURPS though and given the OP's comment I guess that's right out.

Fate could work, but I actually tried it for a short Avatar one-shot and didn't enjoy it much at all (this was after running Fate a few times before, too). Different strokes, and all that.

FATE isn't a system, it's a gay storytelling exercise, like Fiasco.

Always wanted to do a primarily lightning firebender. Something I always wished they mentioned is that the human brain is basically just chemically induced electricity.

A lightning bender could be a mentat if they had the drive to do so and were willing to risk accidentally frying their own mind. Given a couple of copper coils to work with they could bend magnetism as well.

Teslabenders: serious shit.

It's literally as easy as setting the game during the hundred-year war where the Avatar was missing.

Legends of the Wulin or file related

>In the era of Raava,

It's shit.

Has anyone ever considered trying to do a game set in the future or past of the universe? I've had a couple of ideas for future iterations of the setting that I thought could provide an interesting basis for a game.

huh.. It's almost as if the Avatar setting is primarily based on the episodic resolution of simple character based stories and its wonderful aesthetics. Sure there are cool fight scenes but the best way to handle those is with similarly loose weave, but dramatic and illustrative, conflict resolution. Unless you want to get into a hyper complex unbearable slogfest in which every conceivable action has predefined circumstances, difficulties, and outcomes.

Turning Avatar into some abomination with damage tables would suffocate any semblance of fun the setting had.
Although you may be fine with that seeing how you already hate fun.

I think another one is called 'Legends of the Elements'.

I'm tempted to suggest the d20 Avatar RPG but I'm worried someone will take me seriously and play it.

IMO Legends of the Wulin captures the best of both. I don't dislike FATE but I've always found it rather mechanically unsatisfying, and in a story where the fights are large part of the storytelling I'd want the combat itself to feel meaningful and interesting.

>A FATEfag knows nothing of good systems so he cannot conceive of them

No surprise.

This isn't the full PDF. Is it unfinished or is it some freebie version of a for-sale game?

>a gay storytelling exercise
...you mean a roleplaying game?

Shh! You'll chase him away from the hobby!

Wait, no, that's a good thing.

No, because FATE is not a game. We've been over this. Try to keep up.

FATE is a game and the arbitrary attempts to divide up the hobby down pointless lines is fucking stupid. I don't even like FATE, but this bollocks annoys the fuck out of me whenever it turns up.

They're all roleplaying games. They might go about it in different ways, but the similarities vastly outweigh the differences. Different subcategories? Sure, makes sense. Trying to argue they're an entirely different sort of thing? You're just being fucking stupid.

>FATE is a game

We literally just discussed this.

What about Dragon Blooded in Exalted?

Anything is a game if you want it to be.

FATE however, takes a little more... effort, for that to happen.

If you did, then you came to the wrong conclusion.

FATE is a fucking stupid example anyway. If you really want to try to target a storytelling game to say its different, I wouldn't point at the one which has a social bartering mechanic built into it from the core. The fate point economy, the flow of fate points between player and GM and the negotiation involved, is a game.

Bartering in an explicitly meta fashion is not a game. It's as much a """"game"""" as trying to buy a used car is.

Then you're operating on a ridiculously old fashioned definition of game. Social deduction and negotiation games like The Resistance and Secret Hitler are some of the most popular board games around.

All you've done is claim that fate isn't a game without any supporting arguments.

But used car buying IS a game.
Is the dating game not a game?
How about Minecraft?

FATE is a game. A game that people may feel free to HATE for its lack of substance.

If you're going to bring the context of "game" to encompass "any vague activity at all," then I suppose you've redefined your way into victory. Congratulations.

At least you're not so far gone that you also realize FATE is absolutely terrible.

>I suppose you've redefined your way into victory.
That's right I have fuckboy. Read the dictionary and play some charades, I've won this battle.

Now we can let the OP negotiate with his GM about whether FATE-induced urine counts for his waterbending keyword.

Hi Virt! Decided to shit up another thread? Ran out of troll posts to put on your blog?

t. triggered FATEcuck

Learn an actual game sometimes fampai, it'll do you some good.

Man, that bullshit is older than Virt. The RPGPundit has been doing it for years with his crusade against the storygamer 'swine'. It's fucking hilarious.

>Cuck

I do love that word. Whenever someone uses it it's a sign I can safely discard their opinion and ignore anything they say in future. It's such a useful signal to be aware of.

Oh god I had forgotten about that swine bullshit.

>FATE players

Speaking of signs that let you safely discard someone's opinions...

Oooh can we hear a story about the schweinmensch?

>Virt switches to /pol/ words
Ooh, that's good Virt! You're really bringing on the heat! I'm sure your fan will love these screencaps!

The thing I always find funny? At no stage in the whole thing has anyone ever made a real point as to why making the distinction is in any way useful or beneficial to anyone. They will argue for it and justify it in so many ways, but they can never give you a solid reason as to why it has any benefit beyond appeasing their own personal vendetta.

You have clearly never played fate. It's one of the most gamist systems there is. Just cause the people who sell it focus on it's narrative aspects, doesn't change the fact that it's all about rolling high to do what you want.

Nope. I'm one of the people who posted earlier saying that they don't like FATE. I don't hate it, but it's not my preferred sort of system. But, see, I can acknowledge that a system outside my preferences is well designed for what it does and has appeal to those who are into that sort of thing. It's part of being a rational human being.

>doesn't change the fact that it's all about rolling high to do what you want.

>Implying "wanting to roll well" is a """gamist""" feature

Thank you for continuing to prove how utterly useless GNS theory is to the lingo of this hobby.

My fucking god, these extended quotation marks are the most obnoxious thing. Why the fuck am I seeing them more and more often?

Well you're continuing to call FATE a game system, much less one that's well designed, so rationality is clearly beyond you.

Two possible reasons. One, it's because they can use it to be as obnoxious as possible; two, they have no actual argument, focus on a single word presented -- in that user's case, 'gamist' and extend it outward so it draws your attention more than to their argument.

Or, again in this case, utter lack of one.

Then please, enlighten us.

State your argument from base principles, using specific language and explaining any terminology you bring in to support your point. If you really are so obviously and implicitly correct, it should be effortless for you to construct such an argument, I'm quite sure.

It's an emphatic addition technique, many times used to convey forceful incredulity.

However, it mostly looks like you've facerolled the keyboard in anger.

But I see the shitposting has begun in earnest now. I hope you got what you came for OP, because we'll be off to page ten.

Damn, Virt! You really told them!

This is gonna be great for your blog, I'm sure of it! You'll get two, maybe three likes! Maybe from other people!!!

But that is...

It isn't Narrative, as the outcome has to do with randomization, not what works well for the story, or, the Rule of Drama

It isn't Simulationist, as having a high stat helps, but is in the moment unnecessary, and thus ignores the Rule of Karma.

It's Gamist, as it only applies in the context of the rules of the game, and follows the Rule of Chance.

Well, games have rules for one, rather than "Players, make up a Thing, and if a situation comes up where that Thing """"""""Sounds Right""""""""" to the GM and you spend a benny, you get a bonus." It is quite literally a half-step away from cops and robbers, with only some immersion-shattering bartering meta token economy keeping it from going full Bang I Hit You, Nuh Uh I Invoke Armor of Invincibility.

Dude, he's clearly a troll. Stop feeding him.

Except what you described is, by every practical definition, a rule. Congratulations on defeating your own argument.

It's okay to not like a system but realize it is not only a system, but well-designed for its intended purpose.

Just because it does something different than norm. for the genre doesn't make it any less of a game. Hell you'd have a better time arguing Maid RPG isn't an rpg than FATE isn't an rpg.

It's pointless semantic bullshit, because they're both TTRPGs, even if they focus pretty soley on one core aspect of the genre -- storytelling.

Is there some intellectualized jargon 'theory' running around for RPGs?

Wow, Virt! That's your best argument yet! You totally told these people whatever thing you were trying to tell them, probably....

Yeah!!! Call them a Cuck again, too!!!

It's 8AM and I haven't slept, I'm just kinda enjoying poking the idiot and hearing the dumb shit that falls out of his mouth.

The """"""""rules"""""""""" of FATE are more readily described as mutual masturbation than anything concrete or world-defining.

Or in other words, the utter lack of an argument to convince the other party that your argument is, in fact, correct and not just you disliking the system, therefore this system is not a game bullshit.

Yes. Google GNS theory.

It is, in brief, the stupidest shit ever written as related to this hobby, and it is often parroted by pseudo-intellectual armchair developers who utterly lack any meaningful lingo through which to express themselves. Dice rolling = gamist, appealing to FATEfags = narrativist, and managing any consistency in your game's world at all = simulationist. It is exactly as stupid and useless for discussion as it sounds.

GNS is the theory that Roleplaying games can be built around Gamist, Narrativist, or Simulationist play.

Gamist games are primarily built around balance and deep mechanical play. Having good and developed mechanics. D&D 3rd+ basically fell under this category.

Narrativist games are built around forming a story, and tend to be mechanically built around facilitating that. Games like Nobilis and Apocalypse World would fall under this.

Simulationist games forgo balance for some sense of realism or simulationism, trying to portray a fictional world as real through game mechanics and GM adjudication. Older D&D usually falls under this category.

Mostly falls apart because every game has a different degree of focus on these three elements. None really sacrifice any of them completely. Except maybe FATAL

GNS stands for Gamist, Narrative, and Simulationist. Some people really hate the idea, because the guy who came up with it kinda sold it as you have to be one, but if you think of it as a triangle it actually works fine for describing things.

Since he didn't like them, I also added in a particular games conceptual rules for roleplaying.

You said it didn't have rules, and then described a rule. Do you have any actual counter to this, or are you just going to completely retreat into buzzwords and insults?

In very broad general terms, the format 'If x, then y' is a rule. 'If an Aspect is appropriate to the situation, you may spend a Fate point for a reroll or a +2 bonus' is as much a rule as 'If an enemy leaves a threatened square, you may make an Opportunity Attack against them.'

I challenge you to find a definition of 'Rule' that includes the latter but excludes the former. Seriously. I want to see you try.

Damn, Virt! Those repetitive quotes are """""""""""""""""demolishing""""""""""""""""" arguments left and right! Man, your blog is gonna be so popular, and people are gonna totally love and date you now!

Oh man, these pretentious term fetishes are getting more popular these days. It's like people are actively trying to make buzzwords.

Pretty silly. All RPGs are running a simulation with more or less detail. They also all seem to use gameplay elements to help do that, while running a story element for player interest.

Honestly sounds like the whole "earth and air are different elements" ancient shit, created because they had no idea what atoms were or how oxide minerals worked.

Even then, some ancients had a close-on hold onto the idea, but a majority weren't too willing to change from 'different elements' or 'the gods did it.'

>all this arguing, yet nobody in the thread even likes Fate
Fucking lmao. Veeky Forums cracks me up sometimes. As you were, gents.

Well, I wouldn't say that's exactly true, although it's also a place where the GNS terminology falls through.

A lot of more 'narrative' games operate on genre simulation over 'reality' simulation. Instead of trying to represent the laws and functions of a real world, they create a set of mechanics and principles that recreate the atmosphere and feeling of a particular genre.

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, Legends of the Wulin is an example of a crunchy genre simulation game, where it has in depth mechanics which pay the barest lip service to 'realism', and instead almost entirely derives themselves from the tropes and themes of Wuxia fiction.

>It's pointless semantic bullshit, because they're both TTRPGs, even if they focus pretty soley on one core aspect of the genre -- storytelling.

As is typical for the FATEfag apologists, you sound more like a dropout from a creative writing class than any avid p&p hobbyist.

No, the core aspect of p&p is not "storytelling," it is "decision making." At its core, p&p games are just abstract hypothetical scenarios where the question is "what would you do if [x]".

"""""""""""""""""Storytelling""""""""""""""""" is a misnomer to begin with, since the crux of p&p gaming is that no participant at the table is certain which way the game will go. An ongoing narrative is formed through the decisions of the PCs and counterbalancing reactions of the gameworld, true, but that is quite different from implying that the purpose of the game to begin with is to sit down and read people bad fanfiction.

This is, among other reasons, part of why FATE fails so miserably at being a game to begin with; from the word go, it has completely misunderstood the basis of p&p gaming. This is why it is simply a stupid faggy storytelling exercise, and not a game, akin to Fiasco.

Personally, I like to think that every roleplaying game is built on four things:

The game: the core mechanics that underlie everything.

The group: the people you're playing with, and how they facilitate your ability to play.

The metaphor: the setting you're playing in... which can fundamentally use the same game yet feel completely different to the player.

The narrative: the story and world you're playing in. I don't consider the narrative and simulation as separate, so I think of them as both part of this category.

Fuck, Virt! That was brutal!!! Did you see how many quotes you put around Storytelling?! That's ridiculous!!!

Man, I bet these people are super depressed that they're taking on a troll-extraordinaire! They'd better flee back to their lives and friends... cuz real men don't need'em!!!

The cucks!

So now I'm a fatefag, despite not particularly liking or disliking any aspects of it, purely by virtue of arguing against your idiotic and moronic point. As another user noted, the game has rules for social bartering, achieving an objective by rolling for it or flubbing your objective through bad rolls.

Tell me exactly how a game cannot be a game with rules as such. Please enlighten me as to your definition of what a game is, what those rules would entail and elaborate thusly, so I can understand your knotted thoughts as more than ramblings of a 'it's not a game!' fag.

>So now I'm a fatefag

More accurately, a FATEfag apologist. I understand reading is not your strong suit, as otherwise you would have already come to understand what a terrible non-game FATE is, but at the very least I should expect you to make it seven words into a post before switching your brain off.

Well all simulations are always of the game world itself. The physics are defined by the setting.

And even if a game has rules for lifting and pushing rocks a certain distance, it's always up to the GM and players whether to use them or not.
An RPG book is like a toolbox. I tend to find that the best ones are the ones which provide the most tools.
So I mean, that nullifies the whole "theory". I can play D&D casual or I can play it crunchy.

Alright: Which aspects make it not a game?

Aww shit, Virt really dropping the mic now! He said "apologist"! And "fag"! Again!!! That's brutal!

Damn, how are they still posting after your relentless assault?!

So this is what obsession looks like.

Come on troll, let's hear something more from you. Replying to would be a good place to start.

Or are you just going to keep cherrypicking who you reply to to try and keep up the masquerade a little longer?

It's a classic example of trolls trolling trolls.

Veeky Forums never changes. You should have seen the edition wars.

I fucking know, right?

Literally no one here is even disputing how shitty FATE is.

What's the matter, Virt? Don't you like recognition for your """"""""""""""""""""""""""""awesome trolling skillz""""""""""""""""""""""""""""?

Are you okay?

every single person in this thread is autistic and should commit suicide immediately