Which faction was best? Except aliens

Which faction was best? Except aliens

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>what faction is best except any best faction candidate

Expansion factions are all innately either overpowered (Aliens, Cybernetics, Pirates, Free Drones) or underpowered one trick ponies (Data Angels, Cult of the planet) that is why they were not included in the original game. The Aliens are notoriously overpowered compared to all human factions especially the original ones.

Alens being OP makes sense.

Morgan

Not in the game's perspective.

I think Peacekeepers and Morgan Industries have biggest chance of not being turned into slave/experiment subject and have quite good standard of living.
Believers can probably be a comfy option if you are into hardcore religion.
And if you are a genejack then Hive would be your paradise.

For a game I mostly played an University believing that tech advantage is most important.

I will give you best three in each category, in no particular order
>Gameplay SMAC
Gaians, Yang, Peacekeepers
>Gameplay SMAX
Free Drones, Cybernetic Consciousness, Usurpers (sorry, too good to pass)
>Storyline, all
Gaians, University, Cult
>Easiest time running GURPS: Alpha Centauri early years
Spartans, University, Gaians
>Easiest time running GURPS: Alpha Centauri middle period
Gaians, Free Drones, Spartans
>Easiest time running GURPS: Alpha Centauri late period
Gaians, Peacekeepers, University
>Most stupid faction
Pirates
>Most hated faction
Believers

I guess we played different games, user

>Fun fact
Did you know Free Drones can out-tech University, even if there is total 4 points of Research difference between them?

Drew, we both had our mutual problems with each other. And we both did our damage to each other.

Please leave me alone. Stay out of my life.

>There are people who value factions unable to pop-boom as best gameplay-wise
I mean... why? The advantage of sudden population explosion with Creches under Planned Democracy is just too good to ignore, especially if you pump some Psych and everyone is ultra-happy. Gaians and cyborgs have negative growth, while Yang can't into Democracy.

Depends on period, depends on campaign goals and most importantly - on your players.

Gaians all the way!

All of them seem like the worst examples of humanity.

>Peacekeepers
>Worst of humanity
I cut myself on your edge

We must Dissent

You mean the faction led by the dude keeping his wife alive illegally?

>This bullshit yet again
I mean not even fucking word of god managed to cut this crap down... You people are fucking amazing.

Let me guess - Miriam did nothing wrong and Deidre feeds dissidents to worms, right?

All i'm saying is that hardly anyone in Alpha centauri doesn't have a stain, be it possible wife sustainment antics or over distrust of technology.

Also Mirriam a shit.

I think you are missing a major point here.
Leader =/= faction. We discuss factions. And you (or different user) bitch about Lal writing a poem that doesn't even have to be about his wife. Then come the novelisations, which while crappy as hell, still shed a lot of light on factions as such and their leaders.

tl;dr - Lal really did nothing wrong. And Peacekeepers are the very embodiement of UN idealism put into work, so saying they are "just as bad" is not simply edgy, it's just plain stupid.

>Did you know Free Drones can out-tech University, even if there is total 4 points of Research difference between them?

It's possible to out-tech University as any faction if you try hard enough.

Even Believers.

It just requires enough numbers and brute forcing the secret projects.

That's the point.

It's any ideology taken to the inhuman extreme.

I was probably going a bit too far saying the worst of humanity, but they're hardly shining beacons of the best of humanity, lal's okay though.

Well, if the U.N. failed to prevent the catastrophe on Earth, then what good is re-implementing it?

I'm talking AI here. Under AI control, Drones are eventually out-teching everyone, even if they are supposed to be low-tech faction. So it's less about "each faction can under player" and more about "AI will do that easily"

>And Peacekeepers are the very embodiement of UN idealism put into work

Because it worked so well last time. It's not like anyone had to build a big fucking boat and paddle off of Earth or anything.

youtube.com/watch?v=J6nJIZu4Hdg

They are, in their own way, as bad as all the other alternatives. Exactly as bad, but in their own special way.

... because this time around they don't have to bother with all the pre-existing governments, centuries of grudges and the other shit that makes their life hard IRL?

Seriously, it never cease to amaze me how much shit Peacekeepers are getting from everyone on Veeky Forums. It's like being fucking blind to reality.

See what I was saying ?

Hell yes they do, just look at the other factions. It's not like their cultural values are going to disappear just because the nu-UN crushes their independence. Faithful are gonna be faithful, scientists are gonna science, workers are gonna march, capitalists are gonna amass capital. Because the UN can't stamp out their differing ideals without going against their own doctrine.

I feel the same way about the Believers.

But I understand that I am prejudiced based on preference and taking a step back can see that perhaps many would prefer not to live in that theocracy, though I would find it pretty comfy.

>B-but they failed on Earth!
>T-they are bound to fail again!
>B-bureaucracy!
Are you fucking out of your mind? There are NO countries this time around. They can make literally UN: The Country. They provide the best they can spare to their own populance. If you are familiar with the setting as such - they are sending fucking humanitarian aid to other factions later on. So you have in the same time UN: The Nation and UN: The Organisation, the same way how each faction has Morgan Industries branches running part of their business by middle period of settlement.

Do you even know the setting, or just repeat gibberish you know from threads on /v/?

My biggest beef against Believers has nothing to do with religion or technology supression or whatever else.
My biggest beef against Believers is their IMPLIED moral superiority, while its just as artificial and superflous as with other factions. Because they have NO moral higher ground, while being in the same time aggressive assholes looking down on everyone, but since they are appealing to "good old times", a lot of people are buying this shit and that's what's really frustrating - that people are buying IMPLIED rather than REAL moral higher ground.

No faction in SMAC has that.

>Still missing the point
Peacekeepers have now their own country. The one that fulfills entire agenda of the UN.
And you are acting as if they were yet again powerless organisation based solely on diplomatic agreements and good will of the real players in the international politics.

>B-but they failed on Earth
Correct.
>T-they are bound to fail again!
Same speed ahead, Kiff!
>B-bureaucracy!
Didn't even mention that although thank you for doing so.
>There are NO countries this time around.
Other than all the other nations, unless you're somehow playing a 1 player game.
>They can make literally UN: The Country
So a Union of exactly one Nation
>They provide the best they can spare to their own populace
Not unique to them

>Do you even know the setting
Yes, I've played the game extensively for years.

You are trying too hard, Steve.

But still made me reply, so here is your (You). Would add proper gif, but I'm on phone.

The thing is that everyone gets shit, because someone is always going to think one has the answer and the others should fuck off and die. If you ask me, then none of them are a viable alternative, or, well, almost all of them are viable, as it takes very little to build a functioning society given that we've been doing it thousands of different ways throughout history, but none of them are ideal, despite being idealistic. And the problem with the Peacekeepers is, as I see it, a weakness in their power to act decisively, despite fundamentally good intentions acting as the system's guidelines. Take Hive on the other hand, and you have decisiveness, a true ability to control the destiny of the species, but no intention of working for the good of the common man.

>Daily reminder there are people who consider Peacekeepers equal to Hive or Pirates
>Daily reminder they are not doing that ironically
>Daily reminder there are other people who find Morgans being the best of them all on ideological level
>Daily reminder they are also doing it non-ironically

Changing the subject slightly - anyone got that post explaining the canon ending of the games, with Gaians, Peacekeepers and University combining their effort and Morgan Industries changing into a standard multi-branch corporation rather than separate nation-like entity?

>I have no counterargument

Well, technically Yang is doing it for the good of the common man...
... in the most utilitarian way imaginable, unnerving pretty much everyone with just how plain inhuman it is. On the other hand, before Yang starts rolling with shit like punishment spheres, nerve stampling, cloning and other stuff, it's just a pretty normal utilitarian society. The "problem" is how he has absolutely no restrains to both his power AND concept of extreme efficiency, regardless of anything else, ending up being the closest thing the game has as pure evil... while not giving a single fuck about rights or wrong or any other set of morality other than how profitable it is for the group.

Compare with Morgan, which is also all about profit, but INDIVIDUAL profit.

>Makes no other argument than "Hurr they are bad durr"
>Expect anyone to even bother with counter-argumentation
You're cute

The problem is that they aren't content with their own country, they want to unify everyone else, and then in the end you get the exact same situation you had on Earth. I'm not talking about a generation or two, I'm talking about 200-300 years from now, when the people of the other factions have split up internally because their unifying ideology has been squashed and they revert to colours and locations and whatnot. The UN is not a particularly strong unifying force, not in the face of the grievances and differences and allowance of individual greed and the common man's dislike of bureaucracy. It lacks the ideological foundation to stop the same inefficiency it had on Earth to become a problem once again because it hasn't developed the ideological or practical ability to create a more restrictive society than what existed on Earth.
If there is such a thing as an overall theme of SMAC, it's that humanity as a whole didn't learn the lessons it needed to stop itself from repeating the same mistakes all over. The Peacekeepers are ideologically and morally preferable to almost all other factions, but are they efficient enough in the long term? Hive is efficient enough in the long term, but is it morally and ideologically acceptable? University has the tools to thrive, but can it restrain itself from going too far?

It always makes me wonder. On gameplay level, Yang and Morgan are always against each other.
On fluff level, they don't give a fuck, while Morgan has a serious, almost Looten Plunder style beef against Gaians.

P.S. I just want to emphasize that I'm talking about SMAC's fictional UN here, and don't mean to make any kind of commentary against the real UN, since, as far as I can tell, we have yet fucked up as badly as they did before SMAC.

Except that I have stated why I believe they are not any better than the others. You haven't been able to do so for why you think they are the settings "good guys" beyon because they're the Ineffectual UN v2.0.

Hive.

Firaxians

Has there ever been any Easter Eggs of information been given about them?

Aki Zeta a cute. CUTE!

For me introduction of Free Drones was a godsend. Hive is just too extreme and going for "benovelent dictator" bullshit, while getting less and less human in the end.
Drones always stay on course for equal-share utopia, eventually achieving it by late game, without going for "group over individual", but also without rampant individuality of other factions.

In short - Drones and Peacekeepers make the best stuff for me.

Depending on whether or not the cyborgs mind staple each other with consent or not makes the Cybernetic Consciousness either the best faction or even more terrifying than Yang.

I'm going to go with the theory that cyborgs ask for permission to stroggify you, which makes them the best faction.

Shame Free Drones can't into Green, would be fucking perfect. It makes much more sense to prevent them from Police State or Free Market.

They - fluff-wise - don't need nerve stampling, since their implants by default makes them stampled.

Drones are partly HFY: the faction.

As in, fuck your experiments and fuck your worms, we will build our own utopia and shape the world to the needs of the common man. So, no respect for ecology.

No but I mean to by a citizen of the CC you need to be a cyborg. They specifically have a very hard time keeping their population size up so they spend a lot of time recruiting others.

If they ask you "do you want to be a cyborg" they're the best faction, if they just make you a cyborg they're the most terrifying faction in existence because at that point they're just the Borg.

Well, asking for consent doesn't mean the people actually have the ability to understand what they're consenting to, and that they don't complain after they've been reprogrammed doesn't mean it's right to reprogram them.

...

I think if you ask anyone whether or not they would forfeit the right to privacy, emotion, and sometimes individuality, in exchange for a cozy life, no internal conflict, and a true sense of purpose you give people a pretty good picture of what's in store for them.

But I like green. And like utopia. And I can't get both, which is a fucking shame.

It's the first one, it was confirmed long ago by Reynolds. One of few things he explained and confirmed.
And not entire CC population is cyborg, since, well, voluntary. On the other hand, why wouldn't you volunteer if you grew up with a society making sure to show you how great choice it is.

The cutest.

It reminds we of the Conjoiners in the Revelation Space series. They abducted a lot of people and forcibly converted them and jammed machines into their heads. Those that were "rescued" kept trying to go back becasue once the shock wore off it was fucking awesome.

Want really scary option?
CC with Cloning Vats

Let that sink in for few moments.

Well first the people would need a firm understanding of the philosophical definitions and practical purposes of those things, which I doubt the cyborgs give before asking or implementing. It's like the equivalent of when in fantasy you're being asked to give up your soul for a deal, and nobody tells you what the soul actually is or is for.

I, for one, would gladly jump on that bandwagon.

I can totally see advertisements about cyborgization, aimed at the poor, depressed, and just miserable.

>green utopia

Play Deirdre then. It's hippie biopunk utopia.

You mean the soulless bureaucrats SJWs hell bent on repeating all earth's mistakes (most of witch they caused by the way) and whose main way to win is abusing a system nobody should give half a shit about anymore?
I hate them more than Miriam.

>I can totally see advertisements about cyborgization, aimed at the poor, depressed, and just miserable.

This.
Why most sci-fi creators makes the poor going AGAINST cyborgisation is beyond me. It's the reverse of basic fucking logic. Like those horrible new Deus Ex games, where all the poor and oppressed are against implants, even if there is no trade off and they make you much less miserable and oppressed.

But it's not the kind of utopia I want, you see. Just think about it. Standard Deidre vs Green Drones. See the difference now?

Then again, most of the time I end up playing as Gaians anyway.

(You)

It tottaly removes their one weakness

Combined with the other advances made on Planet they have access to endless children that can grow up from the earliest stages with the implants. "Natural" Cyborgs. No memory of unaugmented humanity.

>UN
>SJWs
I just want to remind everyone ITT that this is either bait or chronic stupidity, and not worth falling for or discussing.

Well since I've been corrected and their cybernetic enhancements are voluntary, cloning vats wouldn't really that big of a deal.

A clones is just your own genetics, it would rarely be different from a twin, and even if the two shared memories the clone would still have a mind of its own.

I cut myself just reading your post

In Deus Ex implants are costly and increase class disparity even more. As in, if one guy is rich and successful and another is poor and wretched, because the first guy is smart and strong, and the boosters will enhance the first guy even more because he can afford them.

If the implants are free, though, that's another story.

Cybernetic Consciousness's entire shtick is that they're not stupid. They would likely keep a pure version of humanity around just as a reminder as for how much it sucks to be human so the hive doesn't destroy itself by trying to go all noble savage on everyone.

Fuck, I can't into grammar.

What I meant is if the first guy is succesful because of natural abilities and another guy is not, implants will only worsen the situation, because only the first guy can afford them.

The Deus Ex prequels are fucking stupid anyways. Those prequels are for their gameplay, sometimes their characters, and nothing else.

The real funny part is how their own pursuit for being a transhuman is by the end irrevelant, as the game ends with one massive wave of transhumanism. Only than being part-machines, you are fungus now.

Kind of ironic, if you ask me.

My head-canon is how CC was more important than University in making the contact with the Planet and hooking it up to the computers, due to their own expertise on this field.

What about the waifus? Do they have waifus? My computer can't handle them so I haven't played them yet.

You are missing nothing. Deus Ex is over-rated as fuck, but the modern prequels are just fucking horrible. The worst kind of soulless modern "remake" you can imagine.

>Head-canon
For me CC is just semi-autonomous branch of University, rather than full-blown faction of their own. Same way how Data Angels are literally just hacking kids from Morgan Inc. and Peacekeepers.

>>The one that fulfills entire agenda of the UN.
Yes, And that agenda A SHIT.

youtube.com/watch?v=iLzoi1ndQH8

The first Deus Ex was great, it spawned a terrible sequel, and then the two prequels after that were okay but incredibly stupid plot wise and if you take them as canon they destroy every bit of nuance in the world of the first game.

That's why the Longevity Vaccine varies in it's effectiveness depending on your economic model.

>>no argument

It's a shame. Deux Ex 2 was bad, but Human Revolution was a fitting spiritual sequel to the original. There's some eligible waifu options, though.

(You)

The last one you are gonna get

>Why most sci-fi creators makes the poor going AGAINST cyborgisation is beyond me
Because they can't afford them or they have/forced by their superiors to use cheap and unreliable versions with drawbacks?

Only that's never the point and implants are usually so cheap you can literally have augmentation parole on every street corner in your average cyberpunk setting.
Same goes with their reliability, which is NEVER brought as an issue. At best, it's about the cutting-edge models being 5 times as good, but that's all - they are simply even better than the "basic" models.

But then again, I'm the type of guy who was playing CP2020 as a wheelchair-bound character, so it's not I don't understand the point.
I'm just pointing how economy and quality are all non-issues.

It's possible that the borging process itself is totally voluntarily and free (because it's Morgan and Deus Ex instead of Prime Function and CC). And the mass media just shows how great it is to be a cyborg from all standpoints.

As in, if you're weak, we can make you stronger, if you're stupid, we'll make you smarter, if you're hopeless, we'll give you a purpose, if you're lonely, we will connect you to a network of other minds which you can access literally by thinking, and everything is governed by someone who genuinely wishes the best for each citizen and cares little for personal gain, because function is the priority.

Because it's Morgan and Deus Ex instead of Prime Function and CC if it's not free, that is.

Drawing just from the immortal 2020 - you can replace half of your body with machine elements at a price corresponding to three months of paying rent and eating.

The entire point of cyberpunk is to make those so cheap an average Joe can afford them with ease, but in the same time can't afford a proper home. It's used to illustrate how fucked up the future society is rather than anything else.

Again, wealth in general grants only non-direct, if I can say so, benefits.

A poor guy with nothing can be just as strong, smart, and tough as a rich guy with everything. Hell, the rich guy is more prone to going fat and stupid due to decadent lifestyle.

Augmentations take that away, and it becomes "wealthy immortal superhumans above, and wretched diseased hobos below".

>Hell, the rich guy is more prone to going fat and stupid due to decadent lifestyle.
Not in the age of fast food and fat suction.

He asked about sci-fi not cyberpunk specifically though. Cyberpunk is dead.

I see a drone in need of some stapling...

Wow, so edgy...

I wish the Spartans were more than just military power they could have been better instead of getting stomped out early

The morale is a huge difference in early game. If you spam rovers and scoutsquads it's possible to absolutely roflstomp two or three neighbours within 80 turns.

You have to constantly take a unique drug if you have augmentations. You need multiple doses each day, or your body rejects the augmentations, potentially killing you. The poor are against augmentations because to get basic unskilled jobs like construction they are expected to cut off their fucking limbs and put artificial ones on, then keep taking this crazy drug every day for the rest of their life, and their employer won't pay for the drug or won't pay for all of it.

If this still sounds retarded, it is. The fucking Illuminati are involved, and at that point in any story I just mentally check out and just enjoy the game for gameplay and for how neat the sci-fi behind individual augmentations and inventions are. MST3K mantra basically.

revelation space spoiled me. no sci-fi is good enough for me after that shit

>>Easiest time running GURPS
I've been thinking of GMing the SMAX GURPS. But I have no experience at all with GURPS. Does the splatbook work well with GURPS 4e? If not, which edition fits best with it?

It's made for 3E, at least?

Projection: The Post.