Warhammer Fantasy General: Electric Bogaloo II

See previous replies in the thread(s). What you're saying simply isn't true, or, at the very least, not the entire truth.

If anything, it appears even more ridiculous, not less. And the main point is still there - that you'd go from the Old World to Ulthuan (regardless of whether you go into the mists or just follow the wall in the same way you'd follow a coastline) and then to the New World.

...

The mists kill you. In the army books it mentions in the Yvresse entry that they're full of Daemons.

In the Defenders of Ulthuan book it mentions that in Saphery the only way to reach the Tower of Hoeth is just to continue along the road. If you're pure of heart and seek knowledge or have permission, you eventually reach it although there's no way of knowing when. Otherwise you get stuck and wander on the road forever until you die.

You think they didn't do that with the mists around Ulthuan too?

In the same book it takes the complete concentration of a Mage in the Heavens lore to keep them from crashing while on patrol in view of the coastline, and the indication is that the single best mariners in the world die out there all the time.

...

...

...

And like I said, the High Elves sink any ship that comes close to Ulthuan that they don't specifically allow to get that close. They just found that their navy couldn't contain the sheer number of ships so the mists were one more layer of defense. It's not that nobody found it, you just don't survive a fight with the High Elf navy as they literally have air craft carriers.

>The mists kill you.
Again, nothing you said is of any relevance. Check the other replies on the topic. Including the one you replied to.

>It's not that nobody found it

So, the mists are of no relevance to the issue, the ships are of no relevance to the issue, and knowing where Ulthuan is is of no relevance to the issue.

What exactly is the problem here, again? Literally everything said so far just makes the logic presented in and stronger. Is this deliberate? Because it didn't sound like that was the original intention.

Okay, let me put it this way.

This island is there. You can try to sail there, despite all the rumours of death. You find a wall of mist that never seems to end. Captain! Off the port side! Your first officer is killed seconds after, as is the second, then your gunnery master. Moments later half your crew is pincushioned with white shafted arrows.

Just because it's there and you can try to find it, doesn't mean you'll survive to tell the tale. High Elves don't fuck around. There are probably a lot of people who tried to 'discover' this landmass but ended up being killed or drowned because of their attempt to do so.

If you don't reach Ulthuan, and don't come back to tell the tale, you don't count as discovering it. The Empire didn't even have contact with High Elves until Finubar took a trip as a young man.

Why would you move Ulthuan? Its supposed to be the Undying Lands in Warhammer.

High Elf babes, bruh. You can grow old but they'll still look like mid twenty year olds. Hell, even the oldest they possibly look is a few age lines at the worst.

No, I mean why would you move it from being Greenland to Mexico?

Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.

At this point I really don't know what to tell you, because it seems like you're just not reading the posts.

>Why would you move Ulthuan?
Because it make no sense having it where it is.

>Its supposed to be the Undying Lands in Warhammer.
I don't know what to say to that other than yes.

If you don't understand, there's no shame in admitting it.

>Greenland

It's not Greenland. Greenland is a frozen northern wasteland of an island. Ulthuan is half a continent spanning 1/2 to 2/3rds of the not!Atlantic between not!Africa/not!Europe and not!America.

I understand what's being said, it's just that it's not relevant to the discussion, but it seems like you think it is, which is odd, considering the content of the posts.

Then you should understand that Ulthuan isn't some undiscovered land mass that is completely invisible to the rest of the world. They make it a point to keep you from finding out. If you do, you die. Unless you're a trading partner in the modern age. Unless you're stating something different from what you're actually thinking, the point has been made.

>Why would you move Ulthuan?
>Because it make no sense having it where it is.

Let's not forget the narrative advantages discussed in the old thread, of separating the elves and making them more than just relating to humankind, playing up the schisms as actual sociopolitical schisms, not simply factional tropes that oppose eachother, and the connection to the Far East and the not-Pacific.

I especially liked the idea of the conflict with Nippon and them losing osing the Gates of Calith, denying the elves access to the western seaway to the Kingdoms of Ind and the Tower of the Sun and the Tower of Stars.

>Ulthuan isn't some undiscovered land mass that is completely invisible to the rest of the world

I never said it was. I said the complete opposite.

>They make it a point to keep you from finding out.

After being (unsuccessfully) raided for countless years. It's still patently ridiculous to claim that all norscans beelined for Ulthuan and get slaughtered, when they can pass the landmass, following it to the New World.

>Unless you're stating something different from what you're actually thinking, the point has been made.

The point that you'd still use Ulthuan as a point of reference to the New World, it being situated in the middle of the not!Atlantic? Yes.

>>You realize how patently ridiculous that is, considering how long humans have been in contact with elves and the location of Ulthuan? In the real world, vikings sailed in dingy longboats all the way to Iceland, saw the coast of Greenland under specific weather conditions, sailed there, and worked their way by coast to North America.

Humans haven't had formal relations with the Asur until the Great War. Before then humans were kill on sight, explorer or raider.

Also, a successful raid doesn't mean you get off scot free. The Sea Lord Aislin made a job out of wiping out, not just retaliating, wiping out Norscan tribes that even thought of siding with larger hordes. Every man, woman and child was killed.

You're simply more likely to see the New World because the Lizardmen don't actively prevent you from exploring their half of the continent. They allow Skeggi to exist, so long as the other Children don't steal plaques or anything of actual value from the Lizardmen or make war.

I love Polandball. Why hasn't this been more of a thing in the general yet?

I don't get it.

White Walker invasion is apocalyptic. The Empire is expected to lead the charge when it comes to world ending threats.

It's Facebook tier shit, but that's just how I see it.

The Empire would eat the White Walkers for breakfast. Fuck, they wouldn't even make it through Troll Country in Kislev.

speaking of which, how exactly will an empire army, unaided by magic and the like do against the Golden Company?

That has elephants and pike tactics, right? I only remember a few things here and there about their composition, but they'd likely handle them like a jumped up Border Prince. Strategy and tactics. Pikes and halberds in front, crossbows behind, handguns on the flanks and paying out the ass for the Knightly Orders to assist.

So I finally got to play a full session of WFRP 2nd edition with a decent Gm and it was good fun. As a question of rules, are you allowed to make skill check for a skill you have no % chance for if your GM gives a bonus? My Heal skill had 0 as the required number, but he gave me a +30 so I was able to roll.

That's really up the GM but I wouldn't allow it. If only because I know first aid and CPR and if you don't know it then you probably shouldn't try it. Unless it was like putting a bandaid on a booboo, in which case you shouldn't need a test in the first place.

My group and I have instituted a 'Critical Success/Fail' system to the d100 roll, 001 and 100 respectively.

Also, what was your adventure like?

We started in Stirland as an Elf Mage(me), a Human Squire, a Human Hunter and a Dwarf Trollslayer.
We went throughout Wurtbad looking for jobs, eventually heading out to meet some mercenaries. On the trip we fought off a band of beastmen, where I gained an insanity from tempting fate and casting Drop a bunch to disarm them. We got turned away by the mercs, took the heads of the Ungors in for a bounty, left the city after seeing the long lines for healing at the chapel, and proceeded to head back out into the woods to find some coven of nuns who might heal us.
This, of course, brought forth more beastmen. Thirty in total.
Between the Slayer's berzerker rage and me using magic to make the sound of charging knights, we thinned it down to about 6. The Squire charged in for glory, got knocked off his horse, and by a miraculous roll under 14 for riding, I climbed on it, grabbed the unconcious Hunter( Who managed to get the Slayer's axe shattered onto his face via crit fail.) and dying slayer and ran to the coven(Or whatever term the GM used) of healers. While we were getting healed, the Squire was taken by the beastmen as a sacrifice, only to burn a fate point and be rescued by some Reiksguard.

There will be more shortly, this is getting long.

Keep it going. I love sharing WFRP adventures. My players have never had to expend a Fate Point to cover everyone, just one person or mostly everyone except for one guy with brass balls. I've always wanted them to get dunked by a warherd and get rescued by a blonde youth with tow hammers.

Such a situation would be rare, but yes.
Consider Intelligence 20, Heal +10, and a Very Hard (-30) test.

Then due to supremely helpful circumstances, a +30 modifier from equipment.

So yeah, so long as the final number is more than 0%, you can roll.

The Squire, in his immense wisdom, takes a spear from the alter he was placed on, one that was permanently stained with blood. We met up with him on the way back to Wurtbad where we spent our money at a bathhouse to celebrate being alive. We were then hired by the local winemaker's guild to guard a caravan to Swarzhafen. The road there was unusually clear, until we stopped to camp, where by all but me( at the same odds as the riding test, 14) suffered atrocious Survival checks for finding camping spots. The Hunter and Slayer that were meant to stand on watch ended up paralyzed by spiders, and had taken an entire d5 of insanity from the experience of being covered in giant spiders for 8 hours. When we went to save them in the morning the Squire used the spear he found, and it made him decide to start carving a hole in the Hunter's collarbone. I failed to cast Sleep, so the Hunter burned his last fate point to have me save him. The horror after realizing what he had done caused the Squire to take 10 insanity, meaning I, as the mage, was the only one with less than 5 insanity. We seperated it from him, and of course being away from it makes him feel naked. The two wounded are dragged back to camp, and while the caravaneers argued over whether he was safe to travel with their doctor crit fails stitching up the Hunter, at which point I make the initial questionable heal roll.(Which I was given a fate point for succeeding.) Against all odds, the caravan decides to allow the Squire to follow, and since we couldn't directly pin the cause on the spear, he kept it.

My expectations were to be a useless but comical token female, I was not prepared to be the team carry.

Two, not tow. But wields them with the power of a tow motor.

Gunline. And steam tanks

Am I the only one that'd really want to see more chaos elven art and fluff? Or dwarves, for that matter, but at least for those we do have the Chaos Dwarves, and dwarves are supposed to be resistant to the influence of chaos anyway.

Because elves are subject to the same corruption that humans are, yet we never see elves go bananas over corruption. I'd love to see some Khainite Swordmasters that fall to Khorne, some some Loremasters that turn to Tzeentch.

Or just about any kind of Nurglite Elf.

Personally I think it's just you. Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch had nothing to offer the elves of Ulthuan.You need to remember that the Cult of Excess took hold because the elven people were bored to death at the time.

Do you mean you don't have that skill or your skill % somehow manages to be 0?

>steam tanks
There were only, what, 12 of them? Less? I don't remember, but steam tanks were an extremely limited resource and there's no new ones, because the inventor died.

Is this a homebrew thing?
I am pretty sure you can't get more insanity points than one at a time.

The empire would dominate them at range with gun lines and artillery. If they don't break from that, the infantry holds them while the Knights deliver a decisive charge and the pistoliers harass the flanks.

Elves are not supposed to be tied directly to humans, they're supposed to be their own plot entirely.

Just like how the Empire doesn't really tie into the Tomb Kings.

These factions can encounter each other, but should not be forced into a small room and made to make small talk.

Someone would actually have to make the Polandball comics, and that's kind of hard given that before there wasn't a very good faction symbol for everyone.

However, I think TW:W will give us a small symbol for every race that we can use.

>Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch had nothing to offer the elves of Ulthuan.
They have the same things to offer the Elves that they do Humans.

>Hunger for power, desire to kill
>Freedom from grief, survival of the family
>Ambition, selfishness
>Progress, knowledge and manipulation

Elves aren't free from any of those desires and feelings. Far from it, they're canonically more ambitious than humans as stated over and over in the Elf-centric novels. They're political as fuck, and all four Chaos Gods have an important place in both war and politics.

The only reason given for Chaos to have nothing to offer Elves is the writers not wanting Chaos Elves to be a thing and giving them Elf gods that are already dead instead. "They know there's no good end in Chaos." Doesn't stop the humans who are aware of that, and it certainly puts a big limit on Chaos if the Elves are automatically immune to being corrupted to their side.

I completely agree, which is the basis of the suggestion.

The golden company hasn't got anything that can kill a steam tank, 0 artillery

Thoughts on the new DLC for Vermintide?
Hope the Pick will be fun to use.
Dunno about the falcion

Gold Magic

literally making money

I'm not fond of moving ulthuan and I think the reasons you exposed are a bit fallacious
>the New World has been found out by humans before the great war against chaos, when their relations with elves were trading relation at best
>elves are reluctant to let human ships going there
>unlike our world, when the Norscans founded Skeggi they "shared" this discovery with pretty much everyone
>explorers aren't looking for a passage to the far east
In that regard, it makes perfect sense for the old worlders to call this the new world, and that even if they knew about ulthuan before.

I need a daemon-prince sized (or tad bigger) body for a vermin lord conversion. anyone know any suitable minis that are GW daemon prince?

if you say "Reaper miniatures", I'll put a curse on you that will make GW discontinue your favourite model

Ratogre mini?

too small

Are you looking for specifically a GW mini ?

correction: that are NOT GW daemon prince

no, any producer is ok

Well, this guy on the right is from Prodos games if this is what you are looking for.

hm, looks rad, will check him out

it's called Archon in their range, but they probably have more demons that could fit the bill

Not to be autistic(Well, look which board I'm on) but

1)Only show watching neanderthals call them White Walkers, they're actually called "The Other"

2) Westeros would probably be able to hold them back rather easily if not for the fact that the country doesn't believe in a threat from the north, and its embroiled in a massive civil war.

"Other" is such a cliched, generic and non-descriptive name. Are white, do walk. Are White Walkers.

how would they hold off an unkillable army when valyrian weapons are like rare pepes?

As someone that's read all the books but only ever watched the first two seasons of the show, I always refer to them as White Walkers.

You make it sound like the argument was that Ulthuan should be moved because the New World is called the wrong thing, and that it is right to call it the New World, regardless of when it was discovered, and therefore Ulthuan makes sense in it's current position.in

Wasn't there any point in this thought process were you either asked yourself if this was a complete misunderstanding on your part, or realized that argument was fucking retarded?

Hell, even ogres get corrupted, and they're stated to be resistant. Meanwhile, all elves are bored and ambitious degenerates that plateu in their abilities, and are all aethyrically attuned. They even have their own blood god already.

I'm OK with them being rare, I understand that elves are disciplined, artificially protected, andmore aware of Chaos, but there never being any, not a warband that overextends and goes rogue, not a single circle that summons Nurgle to protect the forest, and not a single lorekeeper driven mad by esoteric knowledge?

Actually, the 8th ED HE army book says that while Elves were resistant to the warping physical changes of Chaos, they weren't immune to spiritual corruption of Chaos. Chaos tainted their spirits and made them arrogant and spiteful beyond reason.

Man, WFRP 3E was probably the best fantasy RPG system I have ever used. It had its share of flaws (anyone arguing it was perfect is dipshit) but on the whole the good far outweighed the bad and there was enough shit to make really solid adventures with very little prep work as the DM.

Anybody else play it?

>bait

can Empire have advanced clockworks? I'm planning a mordheim table at the moment, and I'm contemplating making a clockwork bridge, that will open or close at certain pre-defined point in the match. say, if I place it next to a clocktower and glue some gears on - would it be plausible to have the clockworks open/close it?

Hardly.

I own the entire collection of 3e. Literally everything for it. The hardcover books, the adventures, the magic, faith, dwarf, epic level, and martial focused supplements.

All the cards sleeved and placed in binders seperated by type and alphabetized (that took some time) including the small cards. Expect for the small cards for random effects, those were also sleeved but placed in a wooden sorting tray breaking them down by type as well.

Hell, I found out the career sheets were the same size as photographs so I even have them all sorted in binders as well as the party sheets, monster group sheets, epic level boss adjustment sheets.

I took all the bits and placed them in clear round jars and placed those jars in small treasure chest.

I took the stands and all the character roles and enemies standees and broken them down alphabetically and by type, slapped a rubber band on them and split them up into small treasure chests as well.

This took some work, but I know where everything is, can make an adventure for several hours of gameplay in about 30 minutes of prep work, and have had people always leave the table happy with the game they just played.

Great system, but it does have its share of flaws.

Sunk cost fallacy.

Nope.

If it isn't your cup of tea, that is fine, broseph.

The system competently manages chases, investigation, social interactions, and doesn't require killing mobs of enemies to advance. The character customization is pretty off the charts, the narrative dice mechanic leads to some fun and memorable experiences (but it does take some getting used to) and all the bits and bobs makes for a more immersive experience and allows people to know how everyone in their party is doing at a glance.

The downsides are there too.
All those bits and bobs are not necessary to play the game but not having them slows it down and makes it dramatically worse.
It doesn't handle a player party greater than four people well at all.
The core box only supports having one GM and three players
The character sheets coming in pads is pretty annoying because when those character sheets run out there isn't any readily available ones that are the right size to go into a player box
The stance system and dice system take some getting used to (the standee stance marker is pretty much useless)
The GM screen is pretty much garbage
Splitting a lot of core Warhammer stuff up among a bunch of different purchases was fucktarded (the different cults of chaos, the madness, the chaos mutations, and such are all outside the base game)
The monster party sheets are tricky to utilize and shouldn't be touched unless it is a boss or end level encounter
The high level of character customization leads to a lot of analysis paralysis when going to spend experience points
It was such a drastically different system than anything else out there but was using an established IP it was very off putting to vets with their first encounter with it
Sharing a dice pool is kind of necessary given how wacky large they can get pretty early on which wasn't something a lot of gamers liked.
People forget about the 'perform a stunt' action all the time and seem to think they require an action card for all actions.

(cont)

The spell and faith users having to juggle their 'mana' supply is pretty annoying and not recommended for newbies at all.
Having to realize that running is an option because at best you are getting 3 XP at the end of the night but most of the time you are getting 1 XP is something newbies don't understand too well.

All in all though, even with those legitimate flaws, it is a great system.

All weapons are important from start to finish. Those knives you like using? From the on-set to the end they are viable option for most encounters.

Enemies are deadly and wounds aren't very easy to get rid of so it places a lot of focus on survival.

Chases and investigations using the progress tracker keeps the players focused on what is important story wise while allowing them the option of ignoring it but seeing that they are fucking up with a visual cue.

The party sheet also encourages them to play to their strengths and work as a group of get very slight collective thumps on the nose from the GM.

WFRP 3e introduced a shit load of really great concepts (and some brand new problems) and it is my go to for most fantasy RPG sessions for an in person playing group.

The biggest and most glaring flaw it has these days though? Playing it online is hot garbage. All those bits and bobs that add to the game was probably one of the most effective anti-piracy measures out there, but it killed the online social aspect of the game.

Burn them.

GoT has so many homosexual characters...
so they send the flaming gays against White Walkers!

In recent years yes, but not really when Mordheim was hit. It would still be fitting, but less than in any "modern" city.

I remember my group got wasted after finishing a year long campaign and we ended up talking about running a beastmen campaign where the players skulk around the woods doing classic beastmen shit. Now the idea never took off more than that but the idea still intrigues me.

So is a beastmen campaign possible? How would you do it?

It all depends on what you're looking for in an rpg, really.
WFRP 3e seems like a well-designed game, but personally I'm not all that interested in a game as such, more a way of adjudicating player decisions that stays in the background. In that respect, a lot of the mechanics of 3e, good as they are, just get in the way.

Which is not to say that WFRP 2e doesn't have its flaws. The economy is busted, half the weapons are useless and every attack takes half a dozen rolls and two tables to resolve. Luckily it's also reasonably easy to house rule, something 3e makes much harder.

Whatever floats your boat really. I was more annoyed that 3e replaced a game I liked better, but now that Warhammer is gone for good that all seems a little trivial.

Give them plenty of bad shit to do but keep a firm leash on them by having a Brayshaman who orders them about. Sack this town, burn that temple, kill these elves, etc. Also allow other races, so if you have a Gor and an Ungor, but someone wants to play a Minotaur then let them. Just use the rules for Ogres and change it up a bit.

Not sure if this is advanced bait, or previously unseen levels of autism and sunk cost.

3e is gameist rollplaying at it's worst, with extremely boardgamey influences and a tone completely alien to Warhammer Fantasy, very much a precurser to the high adventure of it's mechanical successor, Star Wars: Edge of the Empire.

>work as a group or get very slight collective thumps on the nose from the GM.
Cute.

As someone who loves beastmen, I think you'd have a hard time doing a beastman campaign proper. They just don't have enough 'stuff' to interact with. No cities, no technology, a bare minimum culture. They don't really interact with other races. Everything you do is going to revolve around raiding.

A Path to Glory campaign would be interesting though. You could have the players as an aspiring chaos champion and retinue. Take some inspiration from Black Crusade, quest for chaos relics, recruit mutant weirdos to your cause, engage in trippy realm of chaos shenanigans and gain the favour of the dark gods.

Do beastmen have human totems like humans have animal totems ?

Only if beastmen worship humans as gods.
Meaning, no.

that's actually an interesting idea
not Warhammer material, but still

>economy is busted
Granted. I think the intent was that it was supposed to rely a lot on GM fiat and arbitration, but without any guidelines or frames of reference, it's hard as fuck to judge.

>half the weapons are useless
Disagree, unless we're talking about the Armory, that regrettably contains a number of flat-out superior and overpowered shit that trumps everything else if you use the alternative rules presented, and that inexperienced GM:s hand out not thinking about the consequences.

Could absolutely use an overhaul, if for no other reason than the fact that the base rules are simply boring in that all great weapons are one thing, all hand weapons are one, etc., unless the GM gets creative (which he should, but again, there's no guidelines).

>every attack takes half a dozen rolls and two tables to resolve.

This, though, I don't understand. It's usually fast as shit, assuming you don't get bogged down in counting modifiers.

The best rule for the WHFRP games (and WH40kRP) is for the players to always ever only roll against their Skill (or Characteristic) and then have the GM make a quick judgement call based on modifiers, the player coming with additional suggestions as appropriate ("Oh, but I'm standing on a table!").

After the player has rolled, he just says how many degrees of success or failure he got. The GM then modifies these as according to the difficulty, explaining the reasoning if it's necessary ("The table gives you a bonus for elevation, sure, but it's also a flimsy wooden table in the middle of a fight, so it's not only uneven ground; because you failed by two degrees, the table collapses, but you manage to maintain your footing."

This saves a ton of time, and actually makes it so that the GM can adequately call general difficulty with a minimum of back-and-forth and the player(s) making assumptions based on the combat modifiers. All they should concern themselves with is really what action they're taking.

After me and my group got OWA, the first thing I did was change the rules for Best Quality hand axes. Impact on a one handed weapon was so bad I can only think an intern wrote that and nobody found out until they had printed it.

>Do beastmen have human totems like humans have animal totems?

If you want them to, sure.

You could make it so that the players in such a campaign are beastmen, though. That could be interesting. While it's never explored in the fluff, there's no inherent reason a beastman or mutant-turned-beastman or practically any worshipper of chaos could not become a champion and/or be on the Path to Glory.

I'd place it in the aftermath of the Storm of Chaos (so, the base setting assumed for WHFRP2). The chaos armies are routed. But the Forest of Shadows is absolutely swelling with disparate forces of chaos; norscan raiders, wise-men, daemonhosts, possibly even chaos dwarves.

It's actually an amazing starting-point, because you could be literally anything chaos-related and you'd have an excuse as to why you are there, together.

Unite the herds. Burn Middenheim in the night. Let none survive.

There's a reason. The Chaos Gods literally don't give a shit about Beastmen, preferring to favour human champions from the Norscans and Kurgans. This fuels their hatred for humans even more.

but why not decide "screw this!" and take out the frustration on the forces of Chaos instead? "You treat us like shit, well, feel the might of the herd!"

I know, I know. It's just.. not very well-thought out. The economy being a bit busted or weird, sure, I can accept that. I can accept that sometimes, worse weapons are worth more, and better weapons are cheaper to produce, but might be rarer.

I can accept that prices are often counter-intuitive from the perspective of someone living in a globalized economy of supply and demand. And I can accept that sometimes, the prices are just fucking weird. Annoying, maybe, but it's an easy fix. The GM says no, that's fucked, this sounds a lot more reasonable.

Listed prices are basically suggestions.

But the alternate rules for weapon diversification in OWA is beyond fucked. The main issue I see here is that GM:s have a hard time saying no - to me, a Best-Quality Hand Axe is something that's likely in practice a lot rarer than the listed rarity would suggest. A GM is entirely in the right when saying that there's simply no Best-Quality Hand Axes available here. The dwarves might have some.

But at the same time, a hand weapon with Impact is just insane compared to practically all other hand weapons, and there's honestly no inherent, logical reason why specifically an act would have that special quality. Once a player gets their hands on it, they're just never going to need any other hand-weapon, because for all intents and purposes, this is it, this is the win. And that's just boring. I'd be more OK with it if there'd be a reason to not use it all the time, or if there were other best-craftsmanship hand weapons that you might want to switch to, but there's really not.

I started working on a custom armory, but I got bored. I should get back to that, at some point.

They do, but an unassuming city with bright colours and happy citizens presents a much better target than some shitty tents and warriors that could probably fight you off despite being out numbered. And they still fight for approval from the Gods.

I nearly choked on my drink when I saw that flexing rat.