Horus Heresy General /hhg/

Heavy Support Squad with Lascannons or Tac Support Squad with Calivers for my Siege Breaker? Gonna throw them in a box with a apothecary

S6 with re-roll isn't gonna do much against many vehicles.

So an user did seem to have objections to me putting vexilia on the Sergeant of a squad. I knew it's not exactly how it's supposed to be but I wonder, does it have an impact on the game play?
I kinda like how it acts as a focal point for the squad.

I'm thinking of getting the Dark Angels Battleforce and doing a bit of trimming to use the bikes and Landspeeder as Emperor's Children. By the looks of it, removing the swords and full DA iconography would be easy enough with an x-acto knife and some patience, or swapping out anything that would be too difficult. But I'd still get tons of wing motifs that I could put to use, and spares for other vehicles/doods. Does this sound like a good idea?

Man, I WISH my Seraphim had that sort of upgrades they could take.

Why not give him the vox and a special weapon while you're at it, if you don't care about the rules.

That's a good idea user. I might give him 2 crewmen and a Basilisk cannon though. Fits the IW.

Some equipment questions

How should I equip my Primaris medicae with cataphractii armor? Should I just give him a power axe and be done or should I give him thunder hammer so he can actually fight things?

Secondly, what's a good third loadout for a contemptor dreadnought? I have double Kheres built and double grav fist built and seeking to do something with the third. I'm thinking conversion beamer + something.

Is the Primus medicae hanging out in a squad with another character that can handle duels? If so, just keep him cheap.

Do you mean stormblade instead of stormsword?

You are talking about the big ass plasma gun one right?

Well, he said "typhon on steroids", so Stormsword is probably the correct one. You know, the one with the short range 10" blast that Ignores Cover.

Man, I just love it how D has gone from strong to must have to "meh" tier at best. Now it's all high Str., low AP Ignores Cover.

There's no stormsword option in the Redbook

Sorry mate, that's a no-go.

From the age of darkness legions book:
>this option may be chosen by any frag grenade equipped Praetor, centurion or consul, tech marine or apothecary for 5pts each, replacing their frag grenades.

Since terminator armour replaces all other wargear, none of these guys would have frags to swap.

>or by vetetanus tactical, seeker or destroyer squads at 25pts per squad

Since none of these squads can take termie armour, that doesn't work either.

Still, you can take Lernean terminators with a venom sphere harness, which can still give you hammer of wrath.

Oh, and make sure you take your saboteur with a combat augment array :^)

>combat augment array
That's a relic though, so most of the time that's out of the question.

Wait, so when can relics be used? The only restrictions I could find was when using them in a campaign. As far as I could tell, it was normal relic rules otherwise.

They require express consent from your opponent, they are not generic wargear.

In other words, don't count on using them, some of those things are downright silly in terms of power.
If you and your opponent don't mind using them, then go right ahead obviously, but I wouldn't bring a list with a relic to a FLGS unless you and your opponent agreed beforehand on using them.

Did anyone have any dreams lately?

I dream of a Storm sword with autokrator upgrades. I've modeled it with servitors crawling over it like the guy on top of the macrocarid and bits that create that mechanicum motif on the armor.

I also dreamt of an Acheron with admech style plating and head as an alt kit, to go with my Atropos.

I've been having stress dreams about returning my counterfeit Mortarion

I had a dream that involved pic related and an Imperial fleet going up against an Ork space station. The strangest part is that Hillary was in it, and I caused her to die by cutting her parachute.
You poor soul.

It hurts my every fiber

There, there. Just be glad you're not Morty.

You can take super-heavies that are not in the book, and give them SM crew for 15pts.

Played one of my first games of HH this weekend, My world eaters vs Imperial fists with a friend. We are both learning the basics so It became a game where the Imperial fists were shooting down a marines or two a turn as I ran to get stuck in.

It was a fair game for the most part with me having a squad of 10 Vets with an Apothecary dealing insane amounts of attacks while escorting my 7 attack chainfist Preator towards the enemy base.

Then I killed a unit, consolidated towards his army and his HQ Sigismund charged with a few terminators.

I built my Preator to be a character hunter, but holy shit we read Sigismund's rules and he just nuked me with the first swing.

Like Holy shit! How do you kill that guy! Should I throw Kharn at him or something?

I'm confused. I thought D weapons did ignore cover in AOD games. They seemed pretty useful as a result, being able to work against a lot of stuff.

That's like warhammer basics : shoot the choppy guy and chop the shooty guy

tip, you shoot Sigismund until he dies, then you shoot him some more, just to be sure.
Sigismund is the kind of character that most Primarchs have nightmares about, because he can kill most of them before they can kill him.
He's nigh unkillable in melee, regardless of what's trying to push his shit in.

Outside of a primarch or Scoria, Shiggy will obliterate other characters.

Shoot him or drown him in a blob of 20 inductii (use Gahlan Surlak).

Sigismund doesn't have a reputation in and out of the game for nothing.

He'll curbs romp anything short of Primarch.

But that also means he'll easily get dispatched by a Primarch. Hence why some people think he's in a bad place, being a one man deathstar but too strong for anything standard under him and too weak to reliably be sent against Primarchs.

Your best bet is to shoot him to death.

Only D hits ignore saves, not D weapons IIRC.

Give me your predictions and/or wishlists for Inferno! Space wolves, imperial agents, or thousand sons.

I'm hoping for brotherhood of psykers purchasable upgrades across the field. Of not that, then either each character generates a warp charge for the pool, or can purchase a Mastery Level.

Sekhmet will be ML2 brotherhood with hopefully access to something besides basic power swords, and access to reaper assault cannons.

I feel that there will either be a unit of power armor/artificer armour psykers that can split off and join units/replace unit sergeants kind of like a Warlock conclave, or how necron courts used to work.

If they keep the dorky chain kopesh, I'd be fine with S:U AP:3 Rending.

Legion special rules could be that librarian consuls may fill compulsory HQ slots, and have master of the legion/rites of war. Additionally, any character may purchase a Mastery Level for 25 points. This can mean that librarians can go up to ML3. I guess this could also mean that the master of armour HQ tanks could get psychic pilot?

All models with the legiones astartes special rule gain the Adamantium Will special rule.

Any model that can purchase a powerfist may instead take a chain kopesh at the same cost.

Enumerations of the Cults: each Librarian must dedicate themselves to one of the 5 cults of the thousand sons, and must take their powers from their respective discipline. Any thousand sons psyker in your army attempting to manifest a power from that cult discipline may re-roll one die when harnessing warp charges or denying the witch.

Pavoni=Biomancy
Raptorae=Telekenesis
Pyrae=Pyromancy
Athaneans=Telepathy
Corvidae=Divination

It's an optional rule, which must be agreed upon. Otherwise standard 40k rules are used. AoD Destroyer rule makes the weapon Strength 10 with Instant Death, Sunder and Ignores Cover special rules. Successful invulnerable saves must be re-rolled. Unsaved wounds inflicts d3+1 wounds. Penetrating causes d3+1 hull points.

Hi Veeky Forums,

I was wondering if any of you, who can afford Forgeworld, still purchase from Chinaman?

I've always bought forgeworld, but one of my friends just showed me his Chinacast. It's almost as good, but at a quarter of the price.

I'm not sure how to feel about this. Do I keep buying Forgeworld, or do I give my money to the Chinaman?

Exterminators for SW and a way to take Vets as (non-compulsory) Troops without having to take a Delegatus or losing Allies. Maybe frost blades as well.

I'm worried that their going to try to push more and more of the Wolves' "Executioner" motif that the books keep shoving down my throat instead of the Space Vikings I want to actually play.

Also I sadly expect them to be the mediocre assault legion, because the World Eaters already do charges, EC already do Combat Res, Blood Angels wound better, Dark Angels hit better... there isn't really a solid design space for them I fear.

It's not a chain khopesh though.

Sorry, I meant the terminator specific one, the venom sphere harness.

Honestly, I earn enough money to go for FW and so I do. Also helps that I am to lazy to get into china-ing. I would just prefer FW to get more goodboy points for making bigger sales so GW leaves them to do their thing.

Do what you want, maybe buy some smaller stuff or resin tacs when your friends order china.
Troops are the only stuff wherr I am tempted to not buy at FW.

I feel you mate, I've been a wolf fan since 3rd edition entirely because they were Vikings. HH turned me off from them entirely once they said that it was all an act, ruined Russ for me, and made them way to subservient. Funny enough, the Khan and the White Scars are exactly what I wanted Russ to actually be, so I just switched to them, its far more enjoyable then dealing with the wolf lore these days.

I buy troops, Dreadnaughts, and upgrade kits like Shoulder pads and Chainaxes from Chinaman. But after trying to get some Red Butchers and them coming out completely horrible, I now only buy complex models from forge world and only grab simple things from china.

Woolfers got shafted in multiple ways. What I read about Ragnar Blackmane in bolterporn books was cool, but then the overwolfing happened.

The harsh reaction to get them out of this is sadly not statisfactory either.

It doesn't help that in the old lore, when a minor HH battle is mentioned, it usually involvs the Wolves on the losing end. They were a punching bag in old HH lore because at the time, so many other legions were considered out of commission for the entirety of the HH. Prospero was one of the few campaigns in old Heresy lore that did not last until the Heresy was finished.

Yeah.

BL also fucks shits up, horrible...right? I am a bit worried we will get a ten year ride with further books.

That is why I prefer headcannon and mystery.

I swear, it doesn't matter how many times I see it, but thone damn Alpha Legionnaires in that picture always get me.

Never. I stopped considering it after meeting some of the FW team in person - really great guys. They're always helpful, friendly, and enthusiastic about what they're working on. Giving my money to some soulless yellow minijew who just makes copies of others peoples' work doesn't sit right with me at all.

Also, a lot of the people I've met who buy recasts tend to not give a shit about what they put on the table in the first place. Strange that.

Sure I'll bite, by statying what has alreasy been confirmed.

Confirmed:
- SW Unit: Special destroyers
- SW Alternate HQs (mirror existing ones, but with fluffy SW elements e.g. both Priest varieties)
- TS Unit: Prescient psy assassins
- TS At least one new psychic discipline
- Missions include rules for warp-wracked Prospero, absolute madness like units getting lost or chasing mirages

Strongly hinted at during the Weekender:
- TS automata

My personal hopes:
- 3 unique units, 3 RoWs, 3-4 characters for both SW & TS
- Generic RoW for destroyers
- Blackshield variant for Librarian-led forces

>TS Automata
>psychic legio cybernetica

I want.

They ruined Prospero by trying to make it like both sides were right and justified, unlike the original tale when it was a legit surprise attack, Magnus felt actually betrayed, a real fight was had and Magnus' fall was a real tragedy, not an action of a crybaby.

Instead it was the Wolves "wining" only with Custodes, Sisters of Silence, Magnus crippling his world, keeping a third of his legion away, and refusing to fight back only until it was a guaranteed loss.

I mean, when the TS librarians can pin point exactly where the Wolf fleet will slowly exit the warp, piecemeal... well the idea that the wolves even made it to Prospero in the first place was simply because Magnus "let them". It was stupid as shit, not just as a wolf player, but just as someone who understands how to write a narrative.

The wolves went from launching a calculated surprise attack successfully, putting the Sons on the back foot before fighting through terrible losses to defeat Magnus, to basically being allowed to do anything, with the book just constantly highlighting how they cant do shit without anyone else allowing them to.

>Exiting the warp unmolested: Magnus told the Sons specifically not to
>Bombard the planet from orbit: Magnus disabled the defenses
>Fight sorcerers that can crush battle companies with their minds: Sisters of Silence and Custodes handle it.
>Finally Defeat Magnus: The book has Russ actually set to lose, only winning because the puppers dies distracting Magnus.

This story made the Wolve's one and only real success, tinged with tragedy, into a giant "We let you win" by everyone else involved. As a wolf fan it really sucks.

Don't even get me started on the "Night of the Wolf", otherwise known as "We lost the fight but could have killed Angron so we win". God that one is also terrible.

Why does BL hate us so much...

The profile isn't, the option to take it is.

Optional rule back when D weapons were crazy strong. They were severely toned down in 7E.

>- 3 unique units, 3 RoWs, 3-4 characters for both SW & TS
Woah, that's more than some legions already have. The DG have 2 unique units, 2 RoWs, and 3 characters
>- Generic RoW for destroyers
WANT

Then ambushed and fucked up the Alpha Legion; double whammy as the Khan thought Russ was a liar and refused to help.

Then decided to meet up with Horus and got spanked.

Then disappeared into the Eye of Terror; massively overestimated his legion's ability not to wolf shit up.

*fucked up BY the Alpha Legion

How well does the Nemean Reaver fare against siggy?

>SW Unit: Special destroyers
If they dont fix regular destroyers and the SW unit isn't shit, imma use them minus any furry options. Because seriously.

Thinking of getting into this malarkey with some loyalist edgemarines. Obviously things can change as I play games and get experience, but would this be a decent plan to aim towards?

>Night Lords, Orphans of Betrayal, 1996 points

>Praetor (paragon blade, jump pack, refractor field, fear) - 160

>15 Assault marines (3 power axes, sarge has pair of LCs, AA, meltabombs) - 305

>10 Tactical marines (9 CCW, sarge has chainglaive, AA) - 163
>Rhino - 35

>10 Tactical marines (9 CCW, sarge has chainglaive, AA) - 163
>Rhino - 35

>5 Tartaros termis (4 combibolter, 1 plasma blaster, 4 LC, 1 chainfist, grenade harness) - 230
>Land's raider phobos (armoured ceremite) - 245

>Leviathan dread (grav flux bombard, claw, heavy flamers) - 290
>Dread drop pod - 100

>Deredeo dread (lascannons, missile launcher, heavy flamer) - 270

And, if I get that far, would go up to 2499 by adding:

>3rd tactical squad & rhino (as above)
>Leviathan with storm cannon, claw, and 2 volkite calivers (walking)
>Meltabombs on all three tactical sergeants

Basic idea would be that the assault marines and terminators go after objectives in the opponent's half of the field while tactical marines go after objectives in my half of the field (it's purposeful that there's 2 units for each role). Land's raider is there because I'm worried about the termis just dying the turn after teleporting in, and the LR brings bonus lascannons which seem helpful for NL. Termi loadout is designed to get at least one shooting kill before assaulting to activate A Talent For Murder against a now 9 man unit - did some mathammer and TFM does marginally more damage than a second lighting claw. But still not sure about that choice.

Right right, but I imagine that the Wolves and Sons won't get anything else until Terra. And even then probably nothing, so I'm thinking of this book as an opportunity to put out everything, and then for other legions to catch up.

For example, the Iron Hands and Salamanders have 4+ characters.
The Word Bearers have 3 unique units (Ashen Circle, Gal Vorbak, Mhara Gal), same for the Ultramarines (Locutarus, Invictarus, Fulmentari).

>Finally Defeat Magnus: The book has Russ actually set to lose, only winning because the puppers dies distracting Magnus.

This part infuriates me, the ONE part that matters and they fuck it up royally.

Russ is the worst "Executioner" ever.

I've seen red/white and red/gold for Thousand Sons. Are those for special squads or just artistic taste?

At the moment, purely artistic.

Depending on the comparison between SW Destroyers and regular destroyers by the time of the Inferno, I'd consider making them legion inductees and ignore the rest of their legion.
Say it's an attached watch pack or something, everybody hates them anyway.

which brings up a good question: what else do people hope their legion gets to fill out the roster?

>SoH Lupercali, weaker Gal Vorbak that can go up to 20 per unit
>DG Proto plague marines, relentless PA

Greeting Sons of Dorn! I require advice concerning the proper amount of TH/SS Termies to take. I'm already bringing a Spartan to transport them, but I'm wondering if 10 is overkill and I should cut the squad down a bit to free up points.

Good Rampagers that at least have Rampage?

Sounds like you're aiming them at an enemy deathstar.
10 PF/SS (Cataphractii) termies are cheaper than 10 Butchers, so there's that.

You're a good person user.

Alpharius here, looking to add that Supremacy Armour to my Alpha Legion as dictated by dubs. I'm going to fluff it as Cabal antics, as it always is. Here's my mock-up so far.

I'm not sure if this is pure madness or not.

youtu.be/cNgxyL5zEAk

>Lupercali

The SW and TS are opposing teams at a Derby. Except the result is rigged every time: The SW must win.
However, they have to win in such a way that it looks like the TS were going to win until last second bad luck, or a reveal that some force imbalance means they could never have realistically won.
This is for a few reaons.
1) Thousand Sons are the Tzeentch legion. Therefore, no matter how much they plan or complex a scheme they come up with, they must lose, but in such a way that they have hope for the future or to try again. To come so far and to lose it all, but in the end, something still actually matters is Tzeentch.
2) In a business built off of making teams/factions cool so that people want to support them/play them, you can't have one team consistently be total shit and get reamed. Well you can, but you have to have them be the plucky underdogs, ie good guys. TS are bad guys, so they can't be in that rolle. BUT
3) Because the TS have to look like they can win but then dramatically lose, you can make the SW the plucky underdogs - even though they are the destined heroic victors by all narrative demands - by having them have shitty feeling victories and get smacked around and generally reamed out until they win.
4) This creates a character of hard fighters who don't give up, who pull off some amazing bullshit for (insert character/narrative reasons) and who can be proud but not overweeningly arrogant, which is a villainous trait (ie like the Sons can be).

>tl;dr - in order for the SW to be the SW and not the Fists or the Angels (of either variety) you have to be the beaten underdogs AND the rightful victors at the same time, which is why SW fluff is the way it is.

>Don't even get me started on the "Night of the Wolf"

But seriously can someone explain that to me. It's actually quite confusing.

>It looks like Russ and Angron's legions fought.

>The WE were winning, but the Wolves formed a maneuver that gave them the chance to kill Angron, but were being encircled by the WE.

>The wolves then could have taken the time to kill Angron, but get overrun by the World Eaters, or fall back

>Angron basically tell Russ to do it and calls him out on his bullshit

>Russ choses to save his legion and leave.

>Later Lorgar says Russ won because losing his legion and himself to kill Angron was getting the objective, which is technically a win.

>but the wolves would have died as well, only leaving the WE without Angron.

Why is that considered a win, it sounds like more BL nonsense.... which it probably is but still.

I thought Russ's point was to show that organised soldiers are better than potentially more-skilled individual warriors. Been a while since I read the book though.

Russ and several squads use tactics and fraternity to break through the WE lines and cut Angron off from any WE. They could kill him.
No WE come to help Angron. They're all too busy pushing the SW back. By any account, the WE are winning the battle as they are pushing the SW back.
If they notice - or care to notice - that Russ is in their backline, they could turn around in enough number to kill him.
The point is, they fight in such a disorganised way that they didn't stop Russ and his kill squads from getting to their commander, in fact they didn't seem to especially notice or even care. Because they put individual combat performance above tactics and brotherhood, like a potential sacrifice play to kill the enemy commander.

Killing the enemy leader is generally considered winning by any standard. Russ also 'won' by showing Angron his men were better soldiers.

The twist is that Angron pretty much doesn't give a fuck. You can't really win if the other person isn't playing the game.

But the organized soldiers were going to get killed... if they "accomplished the mission" they would have died horribly. That proves you can do a successful beheading maneuver with a proper sacrificial strike force... how is any of that new, Horus is famous for that.

this is funny because in ATS and PB the Wolves are no better than Angron's men.

>just fookin rush them eventually the pile of corpses will create a trench for us to cross

Do any legions get Relentless?

I want footslogging pain, but I already play Death Guard in 40k, and I'm in the mood for another legion.

Aaaaah Command squads suck!
They're capped to five where terminator legion specifics, rarest of the rare, can be up to 10 dudes. Or twelve in the Justaerin's case.
Or have 2W, like Butchers, Deathshroud, Justaerin and Firedrakes.
Or be all characters, like the Deathshroud.
Or at least have the ability to take legion specific weapons, like Phoenix guards, Invictarii, Deathshroud or even Rampagers can. Srsly, even Rampagers and tactical sergeant #4122 can.

Srsly, I understand some Primarchs hated their bodyguards, but regular Praetors would kill to get some, and some actually do kill to get some.

Command squads gain the character special rule, a Dreadclaw DT and the chance to be up to ten guys (each dude costing 20 pts) and a Spartan DT if they number 5 or more and have terminator armour.

Also, Pride of the legion should also make legion specifics troops.

Those are the changes I'd make to the rules, what changes would you propose, /HHG/?

This is gonna sound a bit weird if you're a certain type of person, but you're thinking too logically. Russ was trying to prove a point, that's all. Primarch egos can be so huge, some of them'll prove emotional points of pride and arrogance to each other using the lives of their marines.

There's also the uncertainty factor. Angron would certainly die. Would Russ? Maybe, probably. But maybe not.

Kek, nice try Alpha Leggionaire, we shall not fall to your corruption.

Not the first user, bit would a Hellhammer be a good choice instead of a Stormsword for a Mechanicum army that can give it Interceptor? I feel that downgrading the blast to 7" might be worth it for turreted Typhon Interceptor blasts.

I wonder at what point you just decide, yep, fuck it, I'm gonna wear all gold. Gold, baby, gold.

Iron Hands only have three, right?
Meduson,Autek Mor and TANK COMMANDER. Or did I miss anyone?

What's up with alpharius's dildo fingers on his right hand?

Yeah my mistake. It's the Sallies who got 4.

WS5 2+ save fearless bubble bikes/jet bikes

When you become the Praetorian of Terra.
Rember how in the future everything is chromed? Not on Terra, everything is auric there.
I bet even civilians wear shiny clothes.

You decide to wear all gold when you are confirmed the truest son of the Emperor and asked to pimp out his palace.

I am more miffed about UM having a Rylanor clone, desu.

>I'll show you what the Pale Spear truly is

Neil Roberts can't really do gauntleted fingers, he instead covers them with cilinders that clip when making a fist.

But the rest of the armour, especially the elbows, pauldron size and byzantine art on it is top notch.

They steal everything. Ultramarines, the new Blood Ravens?