Warmachine / Hordes General

what about swapping out my OD for a Galvanizer? it keeps the more hitboxes option because the Directive only supplies 3 boxes, and lets me spread my Shield Wall a little farther

>Privateer Press
>testing anything

pick one

But nobody likes Trolls.

Directive are your support, they're filling a very different role. You want the Pathfinder, you want the Magical Weapon, and they repair a lot more than the Galvanizer does.

On the other hand, you can swap in some Galvanizers for the Steelsouls, that's a pretty fair trade. Drop the TE for it.

Looking at your list, you could do this.

A Diffuser gives you a bit extra offensive threat with it's gun, and also provides a Watcher target your opponent might suspect. Specifically, I've used it to murder solos that run to contest flags, getting within Lucant's 6", but too far from any warjack to melee with. It's quite the surprise for some opponents who don't know it works for ranged attacks as well.

I'm noticing all of your lists remove the Axiom but not the TEP. Is the Axiom objectively worse, or am I missing something?

It's about you talking about Mother.

I assume you're going to be considering Steamrollers soon, and likely pairing Mom with Dad. Mom absolutely wants a PA in her list, and you want to avoid having it in both lists.

I am less partial to the PA variants of Lucant, but that doesn't mean they're bad at all.

I have 0 idea how steamroller works and I don't think there's a big gathering for it in my area, mostly it's caster assassination and points games. I was mentioning Mom because I'm trying to get her ready as an alternate caster, because the first caster I was able to get ready to use was Dad and I'm not sure if I'm able to play him properly.

Ok, give me a little bit and I'll do a writeup on the merits of PA Lucant vs not.

>U'll never spoo inside a fanny knight vagoo
JUST

Ok, so what the PA provides Lucant is the general benefits of the Colossal(concentration of power, resistance to control style effects in scenario games), and Lucant is also very good at keeping it alive.

The tow cables provide the same sort of denial as they always do, creating a huge no go area for your opponent's heavies he has to concern himself with. However, unlike Mom(who can dominate warjacks away from stuff to make clear drag lanes) or Syntherion(who can use Hot Shot to make the spiker an incredibly powerful gun, and can double dip like crazy with the feat), Lucant doesn't do a whole lot to help it besides Positive Charge. He does, however, make it extremely difficult to kill, which is always a big plus for Colossals. Between his feat for a turn and an Inverter with Watcher, you can make delivering something to the PA extremely difficult, and can usually weather most assault.

You talked before about how you lost half your PA to a Skorne player even under feat. That's honestly great for you, because he blew his load trying to kill it with his own feat, and now you get to have your mechanics repair it back to full functionality, cast Positive Charge on it, and then murder whatever went in in response.

Speaking of which, Positive Charge also super benefits the PA, given that it spreads out from it's entire base, giving a huge area of coverage for that +2/+2.

Of course, any list that can kill the PA is a real problem for you, so you have to be careful. Lucant makes it extremely tough, but not invincible, and as I said, a badly popped feat just means they wait a turn and then kill it anyways.

New player here. Just turn 3 lost against my friend who only slightly newer than I am.
Any tips for some people who are really new?
Is it cheesy to plain hide my warcaster behind my Heavy jacks? My caster is Sorscha 1.
I'm thinking of picking up a Kodiak or Man O War Stormtroopers and a war dog.

I've historically heard infantry are really good in warmachine, but it seems somewhat like Mark 3 has changed that what with the free focus for everybody.

I would not be surprised in the slightest if the team the passed it off to really just don't give a shit. Probably hired a software company then they passed it to a team that didn't care.

One of the first and most important lessons to learn in this game is warcaster placement. Making sure your warcaster is safe every single turn is a huge, huge deal.

I've won a lot of rounds in steamroller tourneys against newer players who play their lists extremely well, but leave their caster open and then die as a result.

>Is it cheesy to plain hide my warcaster behind my Heavy jacks?
Given that the death of your warcaster spells a loss for you, it isn't cheesy at all. It's expected. Generally casters who are high DEF and low ARM IE: Sorscha are meant to play cautiously and avoid direct confrontation. You're hard to hit, but if you're hit, it's GG.

Once you have a grasp of the rules, I would recommend playing scenarios. They generally add a depth to the game that is beyond "kill the other caster", which alleviates the feeling you're playing like a little bitch.

>I've historically heard infantry are really good in warmachine, but it seems somewhat like Mark 3 has changed that what with the free focus for everybody.
Generally, they try to. Most lists will use one or two squads, depending on what they're doing.

discountgamesinc.com/tournaments/

This gives you an idea of what people are playing in tournaments. One of the current Khador jank lists that has effective results is spamming Mad Dogs, no troops whatsoever. Most Khador lists like to use a squad of Rifle Corps, and toss in some rocketeers as attachments.

ded thred 4 ded gaem

>Is it cheesy to plain hide my warcaster behind my Heavy jacks? My caster is Sorscha 1.
Everything that prevents your caster from dying is a good plan.

its pretty bad mannered to hide your caster. stop being a shithead to your friend

I bet you put models base-to-base with flags like a WAAC faggot.

>Is it cheesy to plain hide my warcaster behind my Heavy jacks? My caster is Sorscha 1
As a few others have said, it's not cheesy, it's good play.

The biggest mistake newer players (maybe all players) make is being too aggressive with their caster. Assassination is by far the most common loss condition for newer players. While learning a caster like Sorscha, make a habit of checking every turn if (a) she is screened from line of sight to enemy models at the end of the turn, and (b) keep a couple focus to camp.

You'll still get killed sometimes, but that will go a long way. The LOS screen can be anything, but a couple heavy jacks in B2B is certainly an option.

>Is it cheesy to plain hide my warcaster behind my Heavy jacks?
No user, you should leave your sudden death loss condition twisting in the wind for your opponent to kill at his leisure.

Let's be frank about this. The point of the conversion policy is that there's a reasonable standard for what constitutes a recognizable, assembled model.

Imagine it was someone else, and they put down a set of models that had the same damage. Would you be able to tell what the models were supposed to be? If you lose all of the recognizable parts on a multi-option model without replacing them, the answer is going to be that you can't tell what it is any more.

At an event, you're probably going to get an "act of God" exemption if you have a few models that need repairs and you're willing to make the models as recognizable as possible. As in, sticking a name tag and a paper sword on a model, if you have to.

But there's a matter of basic respect, for yourself and for your models and for the other player, involved here. If you respect yourself and your models, you're going to fix them. No one is going to want to watch your once-assembled models slowly crumble into ruin.

Do you agree

>The point of the conversion policy is that there's a reasonable standard for what constitutes a recognizable, assembled model.
Absolutely, and I think PP's conversion policy is generally faithful to this goal.

Infinitely more important is that down on the ground, warmachine TO's understand what the conversion policy is for and apply it reasonably. This is just from my own experience, but I have never seen or heard (directly) of an actual case of reasonable conversion being rejected, even if it didn't meet all the requirements to the letter.

The conversion policy HAS to exist, because if you don't have a policy, because you have to give the community a basis for discussion, and because there's always that one cheesy, rules-lawyering jackass in any large community who will try to game the system. And it has to be written in a prohibitive fashion, for the same reasons.

But the policy is generally not worth worrying about for 99% of players in 99% of situations. If your conversion is (a) recognizable, and (b) cool (and if it's not cool, why bother?), you're very unlikely to ever have a problem.

Any signs of a pdf for the new troll book?

March release schedule posted:

March 2017 Releases
PIP 1080 Forces of WARMACHINE: Cygnar Softcover
PIP 1081 Forces of WARMACHINE: Cygnar Hardcover
PIP 31122 Captain Allison Jakes (Jakes II) - Cygnar Warcaster
PIP 31123 Brickhouse - Cygnar Heavy Warjack
PIP 41140 Caine's Hellslingers - Cygnar Warcaster Unit
PIP 1094 Forces of HORDES: Legion of Everblight Softcover
PIP 1095 Forces of HORDES: Legion of Everblight Hardcover
PIP 73105 Kallus Devastation of Everblight - Legion Warlock
PIP 73106 Fyanna, Torment of Everblight - Legion Warlock
PIP 73102 Azrael - Legion Warbeast
PIP NQ 71 No Quarter Magazine #71

No Revelator :(

Where is Zaadesh2? Where is the Hurricane?

"April or later" is the best I can do.

Assuming the pattern holds, Zaadesh2 will drop with a new caster and a character beast when the Skorne book does. The Gargossals seem to drop randomly, and we haven't even seen a render of the Revelator or Hurricane, so who knows when they'll drop.

fuck you, fuck Cygnar, we want the Revelator

Tell me who's that writing

SKREEONK

I love how we can't get themes and models released in War Room on time, but we can get spooky tumblr posts and deeply layered ARGs about the new pumpkinhead men faction

I really need to stop looking at the cards in other factions. Man o Wars are so fucking good compared to Cataphracts. Cheaper per model, higher ARM, more consistent damage output, and they have a fucking gun to round it off because hell why not? Even their UA is cheaper. Don't even get me started on how disgusting Iron Fang Pikemen are.

That's not how the song goes, but I'll take it.

What are the chances of this guy being good enough to usurp Sylys?

I guess if he actually has Guard Dog he'll see play with Thyron.

Different people doing it, and the people working on War Room have proven themselves to be morons.

The delay with War Room is probably one of the following:

- War Room is a dead contract for the company and they're doing crunch for something that matters more towards their bottom line and just giving PP excuses and will get to it when making PP happy is high enough priority compared to whatever is actually actively bringing in revenue.

- The guy who manages the rebuilds (either of the data or the app for iOS/Android) is sick/on vacation/fired/quit in disgust and they're either waiting for him to get back or its taken them this long to figure out exactly how he made it work.

- The new themes have added complexity (specifically, that they contain models that count both for free models and can be taken as free models) and they don't have it working yet because it's a deceptively difficult problem to solve Although while it's harder than it seems to solve, it's still something that you should be able to put a recent graduate on and have a solution in a day.

I'd be surprised if it's *not* one of these, but it any case, they never should have been chosen to do War Room 2, and whoever chose them at PP should be fired for picking them.

JUSTICE FOR CRYX

>they never should have been chosen to do War Room 2
Here's why they were: They had it 90% finished when the need arose. Because it really is just a polished Warroom1.

>it really is just a polished Warroom1
Jesus fuck how bad was War Room 1?

Pretty much like the current one, just a bit slower and with more crashes.

You clicked the icon. It didn't work.

Good analysis--specifically the 'counts towards a free model and can be taken as a free model'

What are you working on, user-kun?

Oddly enough, this was the exact opposite in Mk 2. Not to say it's fair, just that PP is incapable of making everything good for some reason.

any other cryx players hoping for that character pistol wraith? what kind of abilities do you think he would have?

Because there's no way that there are people working on the tumblr thing who don't work on War Room too, right? Moron.

I don't think that it's going to happen. Caine interrupted the soul stealing and it seemed like it made it to Urcaen. Plus they recovered the body and gave it a sanctified burial, if I recall correctly.

shame, I haven't read the mark of Cain yet just some chatter from my FLGS but I thought the idea was pretty boss.

Are there any good facebook groups for unloading Warhmachine minis? I'm looking to get rid of my collection (roughly $1000 MSRP of models, probably going to try and sell it for $600 or so) to get some money.

Best bet is either your local community or the faction communities.

Great, thank you!

Barter town is okay, but a little faster than selling on ebay. Especially if you are willing to trade models for models in some cases.

Because they can't leave good shit alone and are stubborn to insure that the fix the community wants is never what it gets.

"Skreeonk the Revelator" has a nice ring to it. Sounds like a title for a Tom Waits song.

Bartertown works, as are any of the faction facebook groups.

I've also passed along a ton of minis on ebay over the years, though if you're going that route, you probably want to cut your collection into four or five lots of related models. People on ebay are more often looking to expand their collections than start fresh, so very big sets take a long time to sell.

poor John

Silly user, you know Cryx can't have nice things this edition.

We must pay for the amount of whining our faction caused in MK2.

This clearly calls for the collecting of WMH lore in call-and-response blues style.

And at this point in the cycle, that's no longer an excuse.

They knew WR1 was shit, they knew WR2 was built on the same shitty foundation.

In retrospect, perhaps it's a bit harsh to say whoever okayed them for WR2 should have been fired -- but now they're how far behind conflictchamber.com in just getting the themes out? I'm not sure how much you can blame Tinkerhouse at this point because PP already knew they were shit and went with them anyway, so now when you have to explain why the guys you're paying money are getting shown up by a random guy on the internet, well, you shouldn't be making contracting decisions for developing software.

And given that Lane hasn't posted in over a week and the grumbling thread is being answered by a PP employee, I'm betting the problem is contractual and not technical. As a contractor in the dev industry you listen first to whoever is paying your mortgage (i.e., the reliable partner you can count on for long-term revenue), and given the intensity of work from Tinkerhouse, I don't think PP is paying their mortgage at the moment.

But I'm just an outsider looking in. Looking in and seeing a lot of the same bullshit that people who are bad at business get themselves into, though.

So, anyone know the latest with Nyssor? Last I heard the Iosans had him and Goreshade was getting? Like, what's up with him?

conflictchamber was literally just a case of, "Oh, that's the theme? Well let me just spend 20 minutes putting it in the website". Remember kids, never outsource your work to a company you don't know.

I think thats more because ConflictAnon is a saint, than PP being shit.

Not really, it's not exactly rocket science.

You literally just attach a property to anything that counts towards the points for your theme, then another theme to the things you get for free. For the Farrow one, you'd just add up your farrow units/siege engines, divide by 20, truncate the remainder, and that's how many solos you get for free. Then it just looks at all solos with the theme property in your list, and subtracts X highest costs, where X is the result of the earlier calculation. This isn't rocket science, it honestly is rudimentary computer science.

Conflictanon here.

I'm not a saint, I've even been known to run Amon jackspam. Haven't in a while, though.

It's clearly not.

But it's a bit more complex than that. The new lists all have models that are both on the "you get free models for taking these" list *and* the "you get these models for free" list. Finding the optimal solution for a given list (in the general case) ends up mapping to the knapsack problem (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapsack_problem), which is something that's actively researched in computer science.

That said, the n is low enough that a naive implementation is going to be fast enough to use in WR2 (and Conflict Chamber actually uses a greedy version of the algorithm which isn't guaranteed to produce a correct solution for all versions of the problem, but that I *think* is correct for the datasets used in Thornfall/Band/Dhunian; I'll improve this if further themes create situations where it matters, but it's likely they won't).

I wouldn't call it rudimentary, but it's something that you should be able to do easily around the time you're halfway through a CS degree, in large part because the difficult part is identifying that it's a version of the knapsack problem. I mean, I used to teach mostly second-year CS students, and I'd expect my top students to be able to solve it easily, and the rest to need help *identifying* the underlying problem, but not so much implementing it.

Hey Guys!

I'm looking for a list of online shops for Warmachine/Hordes accessories.

Templates, SR Zones, Widgets, Tokens, everything !

Everytime I search for good accessories I find a new store with great stuff and I'm tired of missing the better ones!

Does such a list exist on the webs somewhere?

>frozenforge
Oh shit some of this stuff is sweet as fuck.

privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-12-15-2016

Protectorate gets one fucking change? Well at least the High Reclaimer will get his nerf and the shit like Bastions and Deliverers will stay on the shelf. Goddamnit

>1 change to Protectorate
Hello darkness, my old friend..

They're probably being very careful with factions that are ~90% fine like Protectorate.

>Poltergeist is stupid on Drago
>"no it isn't, also Drago has all this shit that is objectivly worse than a jack 2pts cheaper than him so he's good"

I'm worried.

I agree Protectorate is in a decent place. I was sort of hoping that we'd slightly elevate the dregs (Deliverers, Bastions) to be a little closer to playable.

>In the end, what we created [Skorne] was balanced overall
They lost it. They fucking lost it. There is no hope.

Been a few months since i poked my head in here, did they fix the horrible balance problems from the edition change or are cryx and skorne still smoldering crater's while khador assblasts everyone

January

>Do you acknowledge there is currently a gap between WARMACHINE and HORDES system balance?
>No.
Ffs, PP. Get your shit together. I can't tell whether they don't want to admit mistakes or they have no idea what they are doing. If the enire community, which has active experience, tells you something, you better listen.

what did he mean by this?

I'm a PG and a TO for 64+ players events for 3 years.
I don't see how Warmachine is stronger than Hordes ATM. And I'm 100% with W. Shick when he says only some specific armies in Warmachine are stronger than Hordes, and vice versa.

Take out the few stupid lists in the game right now (Karchev, Haley2, Ossyan, WW, Madrak2) and Hordes factions are just as fine as the other kids.

See Protectorate might have the widest range of playable stuff right now. We've got some underperforming stuff, but I also play Circle and Cygnar, and both factions have more shelf-dwellers.

I bet Amon takes the business end of the nerfbat in the July errata, though, as he'll be the most prominent spam-artist and Choir is going to make Protectorate play well into the shooty-and-getting-shootier meta.

No way. There are exactly 0 people complaining about Amon. Compare that to Kharchev or Ossrum

Agreed. The only nerf PoM needs right now is the Leader->Officer CMD trick of High Reclaimer's feat.

Yeah but they said they were going to look at the top and bottom 5% of each faction. Sure some factions have more shelf dwellers, I'd point out that Protectorate gained a few new ones in addition to the previous ones that didn't get fixed. One change means they said, nah they're fine as long as we nerf HR

How weird that the vast majority of Hordes' players feel like fighting against Cygnar/Khador/Menoth/Ret, and not just fotm cheese but more all-around lists is an uphill battle, but we don't see Warmachine players saying the same for Hordes.

Are you kidding? I'm getting my shit pushed in on a bi-weekly basis by Baldur's Box of Fucking Rocks as PoM.

Like, I get that Skorne got fucked by MkIII (I'm a fan of Skorne and I couldn't get rid of them fast enough) but I wouldn't say that Hordes isn't completely balanced against WM.

I wouldn't even blame the powerup. It's just all the tweaks added up results in a situation where lists that simply take what is good, not even skewing or relying on some ballbusting strategy, will end up being significantly better on warmachine side. The good models of each niche (melee infantry, ranged beasts/jacks, best/jack support solos, etc.) are simply better point for point. Which makes it seem like the entirety of hordes is either slightly underperforming or overcosted. Not a lot, like 15%.

>In the end, what we created (Skorne) was balanced overall
Skorne is on no level balanced.

>At this point in time we do not believe that Spell Slave needs to be fixed
I'm sorry but Aptimus Marketh can't cast a single spell from half of the warlocks in Skorne, and the spells he CAN cast are single target nukes that no one ever casts because they're worthless.

Learn to read faggot. The SYSTEMS are balanced. The problem is jacks got buffed way too much. The SYSTEMS are fine.

>Is there a possibility of re-balancing the cost of Khadoran heavy warjacks?
>Yes.
Well thank fucking Christ.

Just wait. He dodges the first round of complaints because he's not the worst offender, but once he does it best, the people bitching about Karchev will move over to Amon.

As a Protectorate player, I'm vastly more affected by Haley2, Wurmwood and such being overpowered than Bastions being underpowered. But I play in a pretty competitive meta, so my view may be biased towards the types of games that show up as a result.

But yeah, with HR being fixed we're fine. Even our bad stuff (which is mostly relegated to medium-based infantry and light warjacks) are bad because they suffer from the same problems models of their type have across the whole game.

I'm just happy the stuff we have that's honestly overpowered (Amon and Redeemers) didn't get whacked.

Eh, I think a lot of it comes down to Hordes playstyle has changed significantly and it's taking a while for everything to adapt.

I switched from Circle to PoM as my main faction (playing both in Mk2) in large part because Circle got less fun to play and PoM got more fun to play. I may switch back for Kaya3, though.

>I don't see how Warmachine is stronger than Hordes ATM
Compare 12 point heavy jacks to 12 point heavy beasts. Juggernaut v Rhinodon, anyone? Incase you didn't know, the Juggernaut's damage is 2d6+2 with his ice axe, and the Rhinodon is 2d6-6. They both need a 4 to hit. They're the same speed. Still don't see how Warmachine is stronger?

I think that really argues to "Warmachine has more options with cheap heavies", because no one plays Hordes cheap heavies.

Hordes "standard-cost" heavies are as good as Warmachine "standard-cost" heavies.

Yeah it's a problem and it sucks, but at least for the current round of errata (which look to be focused at the top as opposed to the bottom), look at what actually sees table time.

>the people bitching about Karchev will move over to Amon.

Replying to myself, but anyway.

To put it another way, I think Amon is a low-top-ten caster. At least, I can think of six casters I think are clearly better and a few more that are arguable. The clearly better casters are probably all getting nerfed in the errata, and the arguable ones are going to lose some power due to some of their units getting nerfed.

Once all is said and done, Amon is going to be a top caster and one of the most complained about, so he'll probably get roughed up in July.

>low key confirming coc still isn't getting any new models

I didn't really expect anything different but it was nice to hope

The systems are balanced. But bests/jacks aren't the only unbalanced models. Compare iron fang pikemen, dawnguard sentinels, nihilators and fennblades. All are premiere melee single wound 10-mans in their factions, but two of them are clearly either overcosted or in need of +1 to all stats.