Dark Sun

Out of boredom for modern RPG, I've gone back in time and found two diamonds in the rough - Dark Sun: Shattered Lands and Wake of the Ravager. Both games completely hooked me into the setting and now I find out there's more to them.

However, I have found that there are both 2E and 4E versions of the setting.

Before going any further in deciding in which of the two to completely immerse myself in, I felt like it'd be good precaution to ask here which of the two was more commonly played? If anyone played Dark Sun at all, given that it's not a terribly popular setting.

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Fake and gay. Nobody ever finishes Wake of the Ravager.

And why is that?

If you had actually played, you would know that the game is insanely buggy, and crashes to desktop well, well before you get to the end unless you manage to rig up an actual 1990s style machine running it in real dos, even dosbox almost always fails when you get to the tapestry areas.

But there's a GOG version of both games.

It's less that Dark Sun wasn't popular, and more that we've all exhausted everything we have to say about it. It's kind of like how /co/ doesn't talk about Hellboy basically ever, because it's always just 'oh, yeah, Hellboy is great' 'yeah' 'cool'. That's it. That's the whole Dark Sun discussion.

The problem with renewed discussion is that the people who played a lot of 2E Dark Sun are, well, grognards who become physically ill at the thought of 4E existing at all, much less seeing their favorite semi-obscure little setting adapted into it, and it's such a lateral move for the fantasy genre that the audience of 4E never quite latched onto it.

So, to answer your question, they're actually both great! The 2E setting has way, way, WAY more material for the setting itself, but 2E is a 'mainstream' RPG from the 80s and it shows. Badly. Bloated, unnecessary rules barely strung together into an almost coherent mess of save vs rods and the hilariously superfluous THAC0. The information for the world itself, though, is spectacular, with a handful of box sets and several wonderful source books. Both the first and second edition of Dark Sun (remember, the thing we talk about as 2E isn't really the second edition, it's like... the... third and a half? Or something) are phenomenal box sets and I can't recommend them enough.

On the other hand, 4E is an actual, you know, system. It has coherent, balanced rules, mechanics that function, well-formatted books that don't have a full page of text with three lines of rules buried SOMEWHERE therein and an enjoyable, engaging combat system! There is, however, very little material about the actual setting, the two types of wizards are barely different (if I recall correctly) and a lot of the complete lack of gods gets handwaved pretty hard.

So, yeah. tl;dr they both have merits, and you'll find very few people willing to discuss them.

How hard would it be to find the 2E books somewhere online and buy them? Physical copies, I mean.

If I can't really find anyone to play with, I wouldn't mind getting these only for the lore of the setting.

A complete boxed set would be well worth your time in tracking down. Did you know it included actual cloth maps? Not paper, genuine cloth.

I imagine it would cost quite a lot, but I honestly wouldn't care for the price, because I don't really have a lot of luxuries in my life, so I could probably afford this.

However, I am from Eastern Europe and am completely ignorant as to which places I should look to in search of this complete boxed set.

I don't suppose you could point me in the right direction?

>I don't suppose you could point me in the right direction?
A little place called eBay

Little e, big B.

Oh.

I figured there was some place that was RPG-specific that I didn't know about.

Thank you nonetheless.

> the two types of wizards are barely different (if I recall correctly) and a lot of the complete lack of gods gets handwaved pretty hard.
The two types of Wizards (defiling and preserving) were converted from two types of classes into a sort of political difference. It's now assumed that all arcane spells are cast as perserving spells, unless the caster misses with a daily power. They can NOW choose as a free action to reroll it by defiling the area (which causes them and their allies to lose half their surge value in HP). Then there are feats that boost the effects of defiling.

In general, Defiling as an action was kind of lackluster so rarely did you actually see it used by the players.

It wouldn't be that hard, I have been doing it and would say I am roughly half way through. I am not even actively hunting down the books I need either. Anytime I travel I stop into the nearest used book stores and game stores and see what I can find.

>Anytime I travel I stop into the nearest used book stores and game stores and see what I can find.

Got nothing of the sort in my neck of the woods, sadly enough.

>how /co/ doesn't talk about Hellboy basically ever, because it's always just 'oh, yeah, Hellboy is great' 'yeah' 'cool'. That's it.

I basically stopped visiting /co/ because of this. They can have eight fucking threads about Homestuck/Ponies/Flavor of the week, but no one ever wants to get into the Hellboy lore, because there isn't anything to be buttmad about and it's fucking infuriating.

I HAVE IDEAS AND THEORIES AND SPECULATION, BUT NO ONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT HELLBOY, THEY WANT TO HAVE DICK MEASURING CONTESTS BETWEEN THE DC AND MARVEL MOVIE FRANCHISES OR TOPH'S FEET, OR HOW MARVEL OR DC IS FUCKING UP!

This user has it right.

I ran dark sun a year ago in 5th edition, it was pretty good. You just use all the fluff from the books and you slap whatever ruleset you're proficient with on top of it, add a flavorful mechanic maybe after a few sessions and voilà.

So basically if they can't complain about it, they don't discuss it at all?

I like talking about Hellboy user.

Reminds me in how Kings of War general died. Like apart of bitching about the minis and perhaps magic and object the game it's too good to bitch about.

I finished it...
...nearly 20 years after I first got it. It's not easy.

The setting itself is rocking cool. More Conan the Barbarian, less King Arthur style fantasy. It's been decades since I played it, but I do remember Dark Sun being a bit over saturated with psionic powers. Every man and his dog was fucking psychic in Athas. I think they even referenced that in other settings. Didn't Ravenloft spit people from Athas back out because they're far too hardcore or something?

As for 2E vs 4E. Go with whatever your group enjoys. 2e is certainly more true to the setting, but 4e is quick and fast enough to make combat a breeze.

>I do remember Dark Sun being a bit over saturated with psionic powers.

Yep.

>The real power of the age was psionics, which developed through the mutations
created by the Rebirth and the power of the Pristine Tower. Almost every living thing
had some psionic potential, and throughout the Green Age the Way was fostered to
amazing heights. Most people started as wild talents, but soon true masters of the
Way were teaching the principles of mind and body to the masses, Psionics provided
the means for all manner of conveniences and set a high standard of living for those
who dwelt in the great cities.

This is from the Wanderer's Chronicle.

EVERY board is like that, especially this one.
If you can't bitch about it, or it doesn't have a million splat books worth of shit you will never use, it gets no actual discussion.

Is that why Rifts and Ravenloft get no love either?

Ravenloft gets some love every now and again thanks to Curse of Strahd
RIFTS is just a clusterfuck and if you ask a question about it, you have to write a novel on the Sourcebooks being used, the powerlevel of the campaign, where it's located, and my Kevin is actually an autistic. Or have a mob of Savage World: GOOD vs BAD arguments shit up the thread.
Such is life for RIFTS fans

> Cloth!
> CLO-OOOTH!!!

but where did they find this mythical fabric? ripping up old t shirts?

>Didn't Ravenloft spit people from Athas back out because they're far too hardcore or something?
There's at least one domain in Ravenloft that was grabbed from Athas.

Do tell.

I'm completely unfamiliar with Ravenloft.

Kalidnay, detailed in 2e Domains of Dread. High priestess fucked up a ritual and knocked the sorcerer-king of the city into a coma, and the place was relocated into Ravenloft with the priestess as the darklord.

Fuck it, I'm downloading that Ravenloft torrent from TPB.

I mean, I just came here for Dark Sun discussion, but this is good too from the sound of it.

Don't get your hopes up. Lots of domains only exist as sketches, and from the looks of it Kalidnay is one of them.
fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Kalidnay

If you love traditional gothic horror you won't be disappointed. I always quietly felt that Ravenloft was an amazing setting, but ad&d was simply the wrong system for it.

I was talking more about Ravenloft in general, rather than the part relating to Kalidnay.

But thank you anyway.

I actually have no idea what I like.

I never really played D&D stuff before, only some Star Wars.

Having played the Dark Sun games I really wanted to find out more about the setting and given that the 2E has way more fluff to it, I'll go for that where it's concerned.

But the mention of Ravenloft seems like the kind of setting that I could come to love and I figure I might as well download the stuff for it while I can.

Alibris and abebooks specialize in used obscure books. Amazon too but it's pricier.

Thank you, bookmarked Alibris for future use.

I wonder how different Dark Sun would have been if they'd gone with their original Ice Planet idea.

Probably no Thri-kreen then. Or we'd have some weird Ice-themed bug people.

>Didn't Ravenloft spit people from Athas back out because they're far too hardcore or something?


I don't think it was Ravenloft I think it was the Githyanki from one of the planescape things.

How would that work though? They'd have to have fucked up their sun even more than it is already by Rajaat and his creation of the Champions and the Dragon of Tyr.

I mean, they'd probably have a very different backstory. But it was originally intended as a frozen setting that got changed to a desert one to justify scantily-clad heroes.

Yes I know that's not how the desert works.