Have you personally had more problems with GMs who say "Yes" to nearly everything and then panic when they realize the...

To add to this, when I do manage to find a game under a better system, it tends to end... poorly for other reasons.

I would not call Godbound a rigorously balanced system by any stretch of the imagination, but it is still leagues better than Pathfinder. After having searched far and wide for a Godbound game that was not Roll20-based or voice-based, this happened:

Then don't do games. You aren't happy with Pathfinder, nobody is happy playing with you, and you're an all-around unpleasant person. You've had this explained by hundreds of people for at least six years. Take the hint already. Stop trying.

>it tends to end... poorly for other reasons.
c

"Other reasons"

Lets be helpful here, boys. List the reasons you know that he's been driven away from games.

>Animefag characters
>Pseudo-lewd characters in places it doesn't fit
>Sources art from a porn site
>Physically incapable of not minmaxing to the point where it leaves even TO-tier stuff in the dust
>Rude, inconsiderate, overly pushy
>Thinks that the only way for RPGs to be played is his way, yet has the balls to post a thread like this saying that it's the GMs fault
>Incapable of accepting his personal flaws and taking steps to do anything about them
>Treats people like dirt
>Can't RP at even a basic level
>Doesn't even enjoy Pathfinder, but forces his way into the games anyway

Who's got logs they can share to back this up? I don't keep any, but I know someone has to have it somewhere.

Definitely the 'No' GMs personally, but it depends on the game. Too many uncreative ones who have a semi-railroad plan and thus deny things your character could reasonably do.

Most of the problems with 'Yes' GMs I've seen have been in stuff like 40krp, where they don't really know the lore, and thus allow like Commorragh teaparties for the PCs and shit. Or Rogue Trader GMs who give out acquisitions on rare stuff everywhere, and powercreep the game. Etc.

But the 'No' GMs are far more annoying in general, since cool stuff just doesn't happen. Good GMs will try to find ways for players to have more agency over the game.

>not having a GM who says "Yes" to nearly everything, and finds a way to fuck you over with all of his "Yes" things
You had shit GMs.

>shameless, "feral barbarian" and "shadowy assassin" edgelords who "like to kill"
Table top is a scoial activity. It's a bit more than social lubricant, but it's basically social lubricant.
Winning is an objective, but it's not the goal. The goal is to socialize.
>they kill random people for no reason
>GM has no problem with this
They found this fun.

Your options were find it fun with them or play other people.

>try to report other PCs to the authorities
Instead, you opted to piss in the punch bowl.

At least they can recite Planescape on a dime, page numbers and everything.
That's been helpful to me a few times.

I don't really like that, because it usually feels like an ass-pull. But can be done well in certain games. Djinn bargains, etc.

I say yes and we play, cause when I am a player like my characters to be accepted too.
I dont play the bunch of D&D related games that Veeky Forums seems to play though.
That may be the reason for which I am fine.

This is 2hufag, guy. It's him that's bad, and he's trying to shove blame onto the GMs.

Are we talking about a 2hufag or the 2hufag?
2hufags aren't that bad in my experience.

The.

THE 2hufag

We're talking about 2hufag/Edna The Earth Seraph/Agata.

I remember the time he joined an L5R game and had a conniption fit when his character got actual DECENT characters killed due to being a retard who thought he could sword with a Crane courtier.

Like, he minmaxed the fuck out of the stats for diplomacy. But refused to roleplay and would PM me with like "WHAT DO I SAY?", because he doesn't know how human beings interact with each other.

He ended up getting kicked out of the game after a crazy autism breakdown.

I see, I see. I don't keep up with avatar-/tripfags, so forgive my ignorance.

>I try to GM myself, but that does not help me find games under better systems.

No matter what system you run or game you play you will always have the same problems and the same shitty games.

The reason is because you, yes you, are a bad player and a bad GM. This is because you are a poorly adjusted human being who doesn't know how to interact with other people. I am not talking off the cuff or in general, but you go by various names and naming them won't do you any good because I'm not here to prove a point, I'm here to tell you, the person I am responding to, OP, are a sad excuse for a human being. This post is meant for (you) and I swear next time you ask this question again on Veeky Forums I will take the time to PM you this same response on the other sites you visit if you don't get the message. God knows I'll have to do this because you are a broken record and have never said anything original in the years I've seen you post.

You have shitty games, and the thing at fault is neither the system, nor the myriad of people you've played with. It's you. You're good at recognizing patterns and analyzing systems, aren't you? So what's the one thing that's remained constant between everything you've played in?

Take your (you) and either learn to be a better person or do the rest of us on Veeky Forums a favor and kill yourself to spare us your incessant shitposts. Maybe if you finally cease to be you'll make this place a little bit better.

People only know him because of how prolific he is in ruining games. He's infamous in the Pathfinder, Exalted, Godbound, and a few other systems circles. How it is that he keeps getting games, I'll never know.

So uh, this guy that everyone's talking to. Why exactly do you believe he's here, right now?

He's also infamous because he is responsible for pirating much of the D&D Insider stuff, and Wizards of the Coast took notice(watermarks and shit), and tried to sue him, but couldn't, because he's in the Philippines, so they just eternally banned him from ever playing their stuff.

Touhoufag, is it true that you're like some kind of Batman who lives in the Philippines? After that whole L5R meltdown years ago, one of the other players apologized and said they were your IRL friend, and that your parents were dead and you lived in a huge mansion on your inheritance surrounded by maids who hated your guts.

Do you fight crime? Does Duterte know that you could be his Batman?

Autistic people have mannerisms, man. Mannerisms they rarely deviate from. That's kind of part of the autism package.

Don't bait all at once.

Because he has a unique posting style, always posts with the same style of image, and because he directly admitted that it was him when asked about it in IRC.

All him.

>due to being a retard who thought he could sword with a Crane courtier.
Uh, what?

Investing in some Kenjutsu isn't a bad idea at all.

If you're ambushed by bandits or monsters or whatever, you'd better be ready to fight.

The book says it's a good idea to invest in some fighting skills, even for a courtier.

He's the OP of the thread and he responded to posts. He might have left now that people recognized him, though. And I don't think you understand what autism means. This fuck has been around so long people have memorized his avatars and his writing style/speech patterns. People have tried to impersonate him, too, and it hasn't worked. Plus I have a hunch I know of the incident that led to him making this thread. Not my story to tell, though, sorry, so feel free to call bullshit if needed.

It was a demon.

He tried to fight an Oni in a cave.

>Sources art from a porn site
Boorus have porn, they're still good for games.

>He might have left now that people recognized him, though
He loves the attention he gets, actually, and if nobody recognizes him he will samefag about himself.

> our parents were dead and you lived in a huge mansion on your inheritance surrounded by maids who hated your guts.

Just like in my harem Philippines basketweaving cave drawings!

I'll bite, here's the (You).

Are we sure that he isn't just a remarkably elaborate troll/psy-ops attempt that's meant to slowly undermine and ruin the Pathfinder community so that people go to other systems?

leave

The Pathfinder community seems pretty eager to do that with or without Colette.

Honestly, I wish he'd died in that earthquake a few years back.

Every time there's a catastrophe in that country I hope OP dies.

It happens across multiple systems, for one, and he spends so much time on it that even if it's a troll he's definitely autistic just for devoting 16 hours a day to this shit.

At no point have I ever played a Legend of the Five Rings courtier or shugenja who had deliberately engaged any enemies in melee.

Courtiers forced into battle are best-off plinking away with a bow while behind a row of allies, and most shugenjas (save for dedicated shugenja gish builds) are likewise to stay in the back row.

stay

No-no-no, that's a perfect plot for an anime.
>a NEET who has no friends simply trying to play his Veeky Forumss online
>shunned even online because he is retarded
>his maids also hate him, because he is a NEET who wastes away his parents' inheritance
Kind of like a generic harem, except no one lovs the MC.

Would you care to elaborate on the use of cute girls with occupied hands in your posts?

You can claim you were 'forced' into battle all you want.

But I remember an autismal nervous breakdown wherein you demanded the GM rewind time, and we lost an hour to your retarded arguments, when your character wasn't even dead.

They're Touhou characters. He always uses images of Touhou characters when he posts. This is why he's primarily known as THE Touhoufag.

As a new GM, i'm going into a game with some retarded shit. I'm basically saying yes to anything that you can make work thematically. For example, we have a narcissist warforged pugilist who will actually roleplay it. A half-celestial paladin type, A homebrew class thats a neat spin on necromancy, and god knows what else.

I know exactly how much shit i'm in for, and i'm also aware i probably won't be able to prepare for it properly at first.

But i would prefer that any day to DM's that are so rigid on things that it seems they are saying no solely on the basis that you are trying to argue it. I have a DM now that is doing that, and basically anything i have tried to do has some small rule snag that makes it fall apart to shambles because fuck dnd 3.5.

Draconian is far worse than a loose GM.

It's not always touhou characters. Sometimes he'll just shitpost and samefag. Recently he's been on a kitsune kick, which is part of the reason why /pfg/ is so awful.

Hmm. Well he does have an officious way of speaking. And yet all the characters are doing something with their hands. Surely that means something.

This sounds interesting. Any logs to report?

This had to be nearly 4 years ago, so no.

Honestly though, I wasn't the one broken up about it, even though my character died. Another player who I brought in was really sad their character died, though.

Seriously though, I learned the last lesson I needed to learn about gaming with autists and NEETs.

I don't play with NEETs anymore on principle.

>recently

TRY FIVE YEARS

This game had occurred literally over half a decade ago, so do pardon if my memory is fuzzy.

From what I recall, however, this GM was running a game wherein, for a long stretch of sessions, the party was traversing a misty plain and would be waylaid by supernatural monsters every so often.

At one point, the party had taken shelter in a cave, wherein the GM had set up an encounter with an oni. Said encounter was very, very specifically set up to murder a single PC whom the GM did not like (which was not my character), as the GM had explicitly admitted to me. It was obvious in-game as well, as the oni had targeted nobody but the PC in question.

I would not be able to recall the circumstances in which I had demanded the retcon, but it was quite possibly due to me finding the scenario unfair on behalf of the other player, who was (understandably) rather disappointed.

That's a fairly long history. And a rather poor GM. I'm not sure why people can't get along no matter their employment status.

This touhou-person wasn't the GM though?

And yet, YOU were kicked. And never explained this.

Convenient.

Now what about the other hundred games by this point that you've surely ruined, all with similar stories?

Hey. Quit giving touhoufags a bad name. More so, don't give youmufags specifically a bad name.

There's no need to be upset, everyone.

pastebin.com/AtHsGRzQ

"That rabbit appears to be lethargically depressed from captivity, though."

all you need to know about good ol 2hufag, roight there

user, the only thing that gets me hard is anger and shitposting.

>It's commonly believed that Colette is quite rich.
>he gets a sexual thrill out of playing crossdressing prepubescent magical boys

This doesn't sound too bad. It basically fits most Middles Ages nobles.

Ah, yes.

The incident that had prompted my booting in this game over half a decade ago was as such.

At one point during this long and grueling trek through monster-infested lands, my character was mentally influenced by some sort of evil spirit.

The GM told me to, as part of the mental influence, have my character say something about blood magic, something that is deeply dishonorable in the setting.

I complied, and then the GM announced that my character had lost a large chunk of Honor for doing so. I was playing a Doji Courtier, and I think that this was enough to deactivate my Honor-related school abilities, though I could be misremembering.

I contested this, citing that while I could understand a loss of Glory (a character's external reputation), an unavoidable loss of Honor (a character's internal morals) seemed out of line considering that the character was being mentally influenced and outright forced to do something dishonorable. I cited that other soul-corrupting influences in the setting (e.g. Shadowlands Taint), as much as they wore away at the character's soul, would never outright force a character into losing Honor until severe levels of infection, not a fleeting psychic suggestion.

This sparked an argument that eventually saw me booted from the game, though perhaps it was the last straw, as this GM was generally antagonistic and passive-aggressive towards me and whichever other players the GM disliked.

Are you actually rich?

I am this kind of GM. When I have to make fast judgments, I usually want to see what my players have in mind in terms of roleplaying and creating the plot themselves. Sometimes it backfires really badly because some players hog all the fun to themselves, make really stupid decisions or just want to control the situation so that no one else can have a say in the matter.

This kind of trust and freedom does not work with control freaks or min-maxing edgelords.

My problem is not mechanically strong characters, it is the lack of trust between players and me. It has more to do with giving your little finger to the devil. Sure, my players can say 'I want to have x', but it rarely just stays there because they are rational beings and want more optimized things that work with x. And usually these kinds of players want to play characters who are either hollow inside or 'intelligent, nihilistic and with a wicked sense of humor'.

OP, you sound like a person who cannot moderate your behavior and work with the team.

>gets two characters killed

>argues about a few honor points

Well, if that side of the story is true, you would be in the right. A fleeting psychic compulsion to speak unwillingly cannot change the character's internal honor.

Onlookers might be taken aback, but any who knew him would likely believe something was amiss, rather than that he would suddenly give in to treachery.

But surely this cannot be the only side of the story?

As has been previously established, the encounter with the oni in the cave was specifically rigged to counter a certain PC's strengths and kill that PC. Nothing my character (or the rest of the party) could have done would have stopped that.

I certainly do not remember a second PC getting killed, and even if it was, one would be hard-pressed to lay blame on me.

I have given my side of the story. You will have to ask others for their side.

I say 'Yes' to everything because I am the goddamn temperamental genie of the game who is endlessly looking for ways to spice things up and leave characters ready to eat a knife because they were dumb enough to ask for something above the paygrade. In good nature, mind you; they can ask for anything they want, and I'll say yes. But the bigger the ask, the bigger the hook.

So they ask rarely with thought out moderation, or when they want to play mind games to try to make something horrible happen by trying to squirm out of consequence and letting it slam into someone else.

This wasn't ever really brought up, no.

Though I do remember an argument over "WHY SHOULD I LOSE HONOR FOR JUST SAYING THE WORDS BLOOD MAGIC?", though if I recall, this occurred before the magical cave fuckup.

The game continued after Colette was booted. None of the rest of us had a problem with the GM, though they just kinda vanished one day and never came back a few months later.

I personally was in constant communication with the GM and they were flexible and friendly enough to me.

To be honest, it does sound like the GM was one of those grudge-holders. Nice to everyone but select target of dislike.

Specific player targeting for death and player control removing compulsions are hallmarks of horrid GMing.

But that cannot be the only argument against this alleged catboy aficionado?

In the game I recall, the GM was friendly towards the players they liked (two or three of them), and antagonistic towards others (three of them, including me).

Towards the players they disliked, the GM frequently singled them out for all manner of supernatural tragedy, from having their dreams and all-around competence devoured by a psychic spirit, to being killed by an oni in a cave who suspiciously only targeted them, to the incident with the mental compulsion to speak of blood magic.

I had gotten off light in that regard, but it was still enough for me to contest the GM's antagonistic and passive-aggressive behavior.

I like to optimize very heavily.

I also like to roleplay very heavily. I can spend whole sessions simply having my PC speak with others, and likewise, when I run games, the players seem to relish sessions of doing nothing but speaking to my NPCs.

The two desires are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I would prefer to play "less breakable" games, and I absolutely loathe Pathfinder for having naught for balance.

>player-control removing enchantments are awful
>I know this as a GM and would never use it, plus it's boring
>I mean how could you make that work, nobody wants the all-powerful GM to puppet you around and that's d-

BUT WHAT IF CONTROL IS HANDED TO THE NEXT PLAYER OVER AND SO ON IN A BIG CONSTANT SWITCHING CHAIN WHERE CONTROL RANDOMLY SWAPS AROUND PER TURN INCLUDING PCS CONTROLLING NPCS AND THE BAD GUY IS LIKE AAAAAIIIEEEE I GOTTA TURN THIS FUCKED THING OFFFFFFF

>-umb but that work we'll use that next session ok

>I also like to roleplay very heavily. I can spend whole sessions simply having my PC speak with others

AHAHAHA GET THE FUCK OUT MAN

This was the game where you were constantly PMing me, asking me how human beings are supposed to talk to each other.

It's funny, because I'm not sure where you get all this shit from, because for the most part, all I remember about that game is long periods of waiting going "Is Colette even here? Why isn't he posting?"

At least I took your character's faggot twin servant and got permission to play them as a traitor who turned into the campaign antagonist as my replacement character.

There's a dual problem at work here.

You're looking at playing with idiot DMs who don't force everyone into the same power band.

On the other hand, it sounds like you're not trying to play on the same power band.

One thing that could help is to play a class that can sandbag pretty well. Hide your true powerlevels and all that, then whip it out when a TPK looks imminent. Like a Shadowrun mage. They're not too impressive, then they uncork a bunch of water elementals and it's like, oh, fuck, what is this shit?

I can see someone asking how he should act in Lot5R, as it's really not obvious. I mean, the entire point of the thing is that it's got this somewhat alien (to our modern sensibilities) value/moral judgment going.

>asking me how human beings are supposed to talk to each other
But user, it is entirely plausible for a player to not know how his or her character would speak in a certain environment. Even if that character would, in-universe know. Thus the player can ask the GM to elucidate or gloss over the conversation.

>At least I took your character's faggot twin servant and got permission to play them as a traitor
It does seem like you dislike this person a fair bit. Would you care to elaborate upon what initially turned you against the person?

If you would like a log of a one-on-one Planescape session I had GMed some time ago, then feel free to read: sendspace.com/file/l3avyb

That said, this log cuts out a description of Sigil's pedestrians, which I had given in Skype:
""Those crossing the roads are a varied lot. There are mortals human and elven, majestic celestials and menacing fiends, towering dragons and teensy faeries, woeful wraiths and energetic elementals, polyhedral clockwork constructs and chaos-shrouded giant frogs, magical beasts and aberrations with shapes plucked from a madman's fever dreams, and multifarious other creatures still."

As well, MapTool's logs cut out the dialogue portraits I use. I have one for all NPCs, even unnamed NPCs. Here is an example of a token I would use for an arcanaloth stock broker of the Fated faction.

I generally want to play at the highest optimization ceiling allowed by the GM and by the group. That is why I show my builds to the GM and to the group, explain what it can do, ask if it is fine, and so on and so forth. They usually say "Yes," and then are taken aback later. Rather than implement a reasonable fix like banning certain options and asking to rebuild, the GM usually applies ludicrous patches or boots me from the game.

What you are suggesting might not be helpful, because what I seem to be doing, even inadvertently, is "sandbagging" during character creation only to surprise everyone during the first session or two.

I would prefer to play less breakable games, I truly would, yet finding GMs for them in my circumstances (no Roll20 due to ISP, no voice) is like seeking a needle in a metaphorical haystack.

Mostly it was the hours lost to waiting for Colette to post, and the realization that at the time, he was just essentially playing the same half-fae catboy singer/kitsune shota crane courtier in EVERY SINGLE GAME.

I don't think you understand what it was like at that time.

AN ENTIRE SUMMER AND FALL OF GAMES RUINED UNTIL WE ALL WISED UP TO THIS GUY.

>hours lost
Now you're just bullshitting.

Take a look at the posts and then say that again. This guy is insufferable.

>(no Roll20 due to ISP, no voice)
May I recommend signing up for a VPN. It shouldn't be that difficult to get access to fairly basic internet services if you have Veeky Forums.

>even inadvertently, is "sandbagging" during character creation
This isn't the fault of the player usually: the GM should be aware of the possibilities of a build before authorizing it. And if a mistake is made, he or she should likely try to roll with it for the sake of the game's fun.

>AN ENTIRE SUMMER AND FALL OF GAMES RUINED UNTIL WE ALL WISED UP TO THIS GUY.
I'm not sure how it could take approximately six months to figure out the latent evil of a player. If it was tolerable for all that time, what exactly became the problem?

I don't think you understand the magnitude of this guy's autism.

That one year, EVERYONE had a story about him joining their game.

We all gave him a chance, and most of us assumed it wasn't the same person that others were complaining about.

What we didn't realize is that a truly autismal NEET can totally dedicate themselves to doing nothing but playing games all the time to maximize the sheer amount of simultaneous suffering possible.

Allow me to elaborate on this point.

I had played a Doji Courtier, expecting to be a "party face" and find myself in various scenarios wherein a cultured courtier would be of good use.

This was a mistake on two counts.

Firstly, at some point in the campaign, the GM insisted in having the party slog through monster-infested wildernesses for a long string of sessions.

Secondly, the GM was very, *very* strict on docking characters Honor and/or Glory for making even the most subtle and innocuous of faux pas, with no warnings (even for characters with high ranks in Etiquette) and no take-backs. The GM had a highly specific view of what would be "appropriate" to say in any given social setting, something that none of the books could cover, and I was also one of the players whom the GM had held a grudge against.

Thus, I was constantly on thin metaphorical ice. Any given line I spoke could be taken against me and used as an excuse to subtract Honor and/or Glory, and thus I was careful to check with the other players and the GM if something was appropriate to say.

Naturally, the inverse never occurred. At no point did I ever *gain* Honor and/or Glory for saying the right thing in a social setting.

This slowed me down considerably, but I would hardly call it "hours of waiting."

>May I recommend signing up for a VPN. It shouldn't be that difficult to get access to fairly basic internet services if you have Veeky Forums.

The issue is one of limited monthly bandwidth and data leaks.

Roll20, for reasons I have been unable to determine, leaks data and consumes my bandwidth to a monstrous degree. Nothing I have tried has been able to solve this.

>Thus, I was constantly on thin metaphorical ice.
That is a horrible way to play. I do know GMs that have been like that. Like some villainous media organization, magnifying the bad and minimizing the good.
Definitely only play 'face' characters when you know the GM is quality and understands how to have fun social encounters.
For such a thing, I would honestly have recommended confronting the GM quickly and/or dropping from the game to save yourself the annoyance.

So here's the thing... you definitely seem angrier than him. And you're using the classic "autist NEET" argument that often underpins a raging social angst of some sort.

So, do you have specific examples of the dark shadow this player cast upon your games? (Other than being from /cm/.)

>What we didn't realize is that a truly autismal NEET can totally dedicate themselves to doing nothing but playing games all the time to maximize the sheer amount of simultaneous suffering possible.
That almost makes me want to invite him to an Adeptus Evangelion game, but I think I'm actually done suffering so he can suffer without eva.

If you want to play with this guy so much, here, go contact him and knock yourself out: myth-weavers.com/member.php?s=1bc729162b6ea9397c6b48af9ea25698&u=104320

Mari a cute!

She's alright. Yui a best though.

Hmm. Limited down-width is pretty terrible. There may be services that provide higher caps at the expense of speed however. Hybrid satellite networks are getting more popular. Land line uplink, satellite downlink.

My sanity has already crumbled beyond this mere "playing" you speak of. I'm only here for the interesting tales of gloom and retching.

I remember when they were making that. That and Warhammer High was it? What is this suffering of which you speak?

The GM was fine.

We knew from the beginning that it was a game where we were going to have to get our hands dirty and stain our honor a bit, because we were literally there to steal a city under joint clan control.

I was playing the SECONDARY party face, and though Collette seems to have forgotten, I am also the player he was constantly checking up on, because I felt like being nice.

I'm not really angry, I just feel like he was a waste of time, and he was kind of a shitter to my friends.

The thing Colette didn't understand is that we were often placed in situations where there was NO getting out of it unharmed, but that taking a tiny hit to honor is a lot better than getting put between a rock and a hard place.

I recall one session where our characters were given lavish gifts(an obvious trap, gifts demand reciprocity, and the gifts were constructed in such a way as to make us seem like jerks for accepting them, because they would be the ruin of anyone who would accept them).

So my character declined the gift, took the hit to honor, and went back to setting up his scheme and operating. Collette sperged out and wasted at least half an hour hand-wringing, and I can't remember whether or not he took the gift, because I think he was just really upset that he'd have to take a hit of .1 honor.

It's L5R, if your foes aren't putting you into situations where you have to choose HOW you'll get fucked, they aren't doing a good job.

You try playing and/or running a game of Evangelion fanfiction and coming out of it without experiencing suffering. It comes with the territory, famalama.

>given lavish gifts(an obvious trap
The classic White Elephant maneuver. Yes, it is appropriate to decline and take a hit to your notoriety to avoid bankrupting yourself.
If the gift giver does it too often, it becomes too obvious a trap, and he or she loses the reputation instead.

>is that we were often placed in situations where there was NO getting out of it unharmed
However if that loss of honor by psychic compulsion story, along with the player death-targeting, is true... the GM must certainly have been poor. Those action are certainly ones of unfun malice.

The question is, did they happen that way?

It wasn't psychic compulsion.

We ran into some rogue Kuni adventuring in the area, and Colette's character asked, wide-eyed whether or not there was blood magic causing problems in the area like an idiot.

Or something like that, it escapes me, but it was a dumb thing said in conversation.

the only way to do that is to ERP, really. Either the boner beats out the suffering, or you are in the wrongest of places.

Same way with any fanfiction setting, really.

>For such a thing, I would honestly have recommended confronting the GM quickly and/or dropping from the game to save yourself the annoyance.

I did confront the GM about this, many times, in fact, but it simply did not occur to me (over a decade ago) to drop out of the game.

The constant arguments with the GM had perhaps wore away at their patience.

>because we were literally there to steal a city under joint clan control.

You seem to be conflating two separate games that the GM was running. The Crane-Phoenix city game was one I was *not* a player in.

>So my character declined the gift, took the hit to honor, and went back to setting up his scheme and operating. Collette sperged out and wasted at least half an hour hand-wringing, and I can't remember whether or not he took the gift, because I think he was just really upset that he'd have to take a hit of .1 honor.

To be clear, this was *not* in the Crane-Phoenix city game, because this is something I was present for.

If I remember correctly, the GM had made it very clear that there was an unavoidable Honor/Glory loss... and that we would lose even *more* Honor/Glory for wording the refusal of the gift in any manner below perfect.

The GM was not the type to let players roll Courtier or Etiquette to figure out what to say, so obviously, I was left trying to determine how to minimize the Honor/Glory loss I was being faced with.

During the entirety of the game, the GM was fickle and capricious in docking Honor and Glory for diminutive social faux pas, and what constituted a faux pas in the first place.