In a world were good or evil are solid, concrete things, a "good" demon doesn't really make sense.
I've seen the argument "If an Angel can fall, then a Demon can rise." As well as "They're built around the very concept of deception and temptation." And "Stop being a Waifu fag! Don't stick your dick in EVIL!"
Ignoring all that; Demons a cute.
CUTE!
More qt balrog pls.
That's the point, isn't it? Getting you to ignore all that.
10/10 would turn that frown upside down
demons trying to be cute/nice/helpful are my soft spot
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it does make for a good story
a demon a evil being by very nature being helpfull in a screw up way its one of many ways you can use this idea
its fun and can be a nice curveball for players
This is a think I didn't even know I wanted.
if angels can fall then good and evil aren't solid concrete things in that setting.
>the terrifying monster was looking for a friend all along
Literally makes my kokoro go doki doki.
go read the first metro
it will break your day
checked and agreed
All abominations must die.
Hot.
DELET THIS RIGHT FUCKING NOW
>In a world were good or evil are solid, concrete things
Nobody really plays D&D that way. Because it's dumb.
If you want heroic demons, just shamelessly rip off Hellboy.
How about I delete your shit?
4 srs demons are abominations and the shining one is judging all of you.
Have you ever encountered a Risen Devil/Demon, Veeky Forums?
It's always Fallen Angels. Always with the falling and the oh no I tripped and the paladin and whatnot. Never the opposite.
I don't even know how I'd begin with a demon who ascended.
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Keep serving demons bro, I'm sure they're all great people because they have nice tits.
This is how you become a cultist, right here. Do you want to be a cultist?
Ascended by the kindness of a truly virtuous person?
>Implying I'm talking about Chaos
>Implying I don't purge and burn all day errey day when serving Him on Terra
There's a difference between demons and deamons user
To actually talk about the subject matter, I think it depends on the type of demon. In D&D and a few other settings, certain classes of demons were once mortal. That being said, the option of redemption even after crashing so hard into rock bottom that you come out the other side can be an interesting narrative, because it implies an extraordinary amount of effort, combating not only your past mistakes but the literal transformation of your physical and moral fiber.
On the other hand, angels are, to my knowledge, never ascended mortals. They are created by their deities to serve, and be perfect in their service. If they were merely mortals who rose to higher stations, the narrative of a fallen angel would have no meaning. It would essentially just imply that the mortal exemplar just went back to acting typically instead of extraordinarily.
tl;dr both risen demons and fallen angels work, but for different reasons.
>The Evil Devil Summoning Cult in the webnovel I'm currently reading actually mistrust and generally dislike demons
>They summon them, use them for their ends, but specifically train themselves and their initiates not to lean on them for power, and NEVER make a deal with one
>They're known to intervene where other people summon demons, usually to stop the summoning or banish anything summoned, in the interest of protecting people from infernal corruption (Infernal Corruption in this universe shares a lot of symptoms with radiation exposure)
>The Goddess they worship isn't even a demon, she just got kicked out of the pantheon after the big fat God War 8000 years ago, banished to Hell, and took that shit over
>She's actually alright, aside from the whole "I want to kill all the gods in the pantheon" thing
i came across some story where a demon wanted to become good after they learned that humans died when killed, instead of just popping back up somewhere on their home plane like demons do.
That's oddly adorable. "I- I didn't realise you actuall- oh no! I was just playing, it was just a prank bro!"
Can 40k daemons be good (waifus)?
No. We can still fap to them though.
The shining one can go suck Zin's dick as far as i care, Mahkleb is still the best
Depends on if their god feels like screaming you over. So probably no.
I meant screwing you over.
She has a dick, right?
>Don't stick your dick in EVIL!"
A proper DM has ways to give more compelling arguments for not straying off the path.
Uh, both come from a stygian underworld not meant to be seen by man. I don't care if its chaos or a fucking loli with a succubus tail, you burn and purge that shit before it says or does anything. The shining one wouldn't have it any other way. I bet you think a sexy vampire is an 'okay undead' because she can talk and has nice tits, too? No, they are predators who treat us as prey and immolation by the glorious light of the gods of salvation is the only cure.
It's okay, it's a feminine penis.
FOREVER UNCLEAN
GB2 YOUR MEAT PIT
Y'ALL AIN'T EVEN YREDELEMNUL AND YOU HAVE THE GALL TO TALK SHIT
Cutie succubutts who subsist on their lover's love or semen are the best.
>I bet you think a sexy vampire is an 'okay undead' because she can talk and has nice tits, too?
You're making a lot of fucking assumptions about my purity heathen.
>Sexy vampire that can speak and is charismatic?
>But just feeds on people without giving a shit?
Burn and purge.
>12 foot tall spiky and all around terrifying demon mother fucker?
>But it's been decades since it even so much as looked at his maul, and helps the local village as a farm hand?
Wish it well in life.
It's not about looks you false-vulting mother fucker, it's about actions and belief
I did not know I had this fetish
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I've seen this pic before but hadn't noticed the horns. Maybe she's his granddaughter or something.
never noticed those either
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There's a bunch of variations on that image. Some with horns on the girl, some with a 666 tattoo on the demon's left arm. I don't think the original was even captioned (so maybe the "demon corrupts innocent" plot was even intended to be played straight).
the argument is one of semantics
>demon = being of pure evil
>being is not pure evil
>therefore not a demon
if you see an ice devil helping an old lady cross the street, it is just a really ugly angel
If you're going by d&d alignment bs or something similar based off it then outsiders can change alignment but in the process turn into the equivalent type of outsider because their body and spirit are one. So demons turn into angels and angels turn into demons/devils .
Otherwise, it completely depends on the specifics of the setting.
No, but that old lady is a witch.
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I figure this is the place to ask, do any of you have a succubus that looks motherly?
please don't ask
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Non-slutty succubi are hard to find. I'm not sure if these things are actually succubi.
And what is this "first metro"? Google isn't helping.
metro 2033
its part of a series of books
they also made two games, both which are worthwhile shooters
Is the third one translated decently yet?
>demon turns good
>now an angel that looks like a demon
>angel turns evil
>now a demon that looks like an angel
Done. /thread
Until you get to Revolution Square and start shouting about bad level design.
>demon turning into angel
>/thread -ing yourself
Kid, I...
yeah, they have for some time, cant say anything, have yet to read'em
I recall reading a review of some Victorian-era demonology book, and one of the things that stood out to me was how many of the demons were described as being helpful. There was one that taught medicine and logic when summoned, one that resolved differences between enemies, one that granted the ability to understand birdsong. Stuff like that.
And after a bit of thought, that made perfect sense. Demons want your soul, but (in some cosmologies) can only get it if you freely give it up. So the logical thing to do is to offer things that /seem/ like it would be worth it, things that are incredible and amazing and "good", things that improve the world- and then, once you die, you go to hell. And it turns out not to be worth it after all, because the physical world is irrelevant compared to what comes afterward.
Demons know that. People, generally not having an opportunity to visit the afterlife temporarily, don't. So, demons are nice. Demons are helpful. Demons will give you everything you want and ask for so little in return. And you will never learn what a terrible mistake you've made until after you've died- and then it's far too late to warn anyone else not to follow in your footsteps.
That would make an interesting campaign, come to think of it. An apparent utopia built on summoned demons, with the players being one of the last holdouts of the pre-demonic revolution religions, or wizards who somehow managed to peer across the veil of death, trying to save the world by tearing it all down.
Read "God's Demon". Super good read, a high-ranking Demon regrets his participation in the Rebellion against God, and after many millennia of doing his duties punishing sinners, gets so tired of it all that he starts a fullscale rebellion against the leadership of Hell to get try and get back what he lost in The Fall and gain forgiveness.
>I'm getting really tired of your shit satan.
Is this before or after the anal fuck?
What I rule (and I think this is the case in the 5e cosmology as well) is that if a demon ceases to be evil it also ceases to be a demon, and likewise for angels and good.
See They should probably change appearance too.
Oh course this raises the question of why exactly they want souls so bad.
Is it just to spite god?
Are souls a currency in hell? A resource?
Even the idea of demons punishing sinners is a bit questionable let alone it being the reason demons aren't allowed to rise up out of hell.
I wish crawl were still good.
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Is this the thread where we pretend everything is D&D, or that D&D is a good setting?
>arguing about whether loledgy murdergod or Lawful Stupid paladin god is the best
>Xom finds this hilarious!
Eh, he just does it cause their sinners and sent to hell anyways. Most others do it cause they think it's fun or use souls as literal building blocks for eternally screaming and semi-sentient weapons or buildings.
It should be noted that he does NOT sympathize with humanity, and maintains the casual superiority complex over them until rather late into the novel. He's not fighting for them, he's fighting for himself (and those that join him).
In Diablo 3 you find out that our world was created by an angel and a demon who fell in love, and was a sanctuary for any angel and demon that wanted to live in peace, humans are their children. It makes perfect sense to me that angels and demons can both fall and rise.
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I appreciate this woman's desires to consume a meal between 10 and 11:30.
just do the 'turns mortal' trope
turn them literally human
It's an admirable quality.
Diablo 3 can suck a fat cock.
it ended up being disappointing on multiplayer but the campaign was fucking sweet.
Indeed. As her shirt states, her desires are "so hard." One can only imagine the drive ones needs to do anything "so hard" as to justify printing it on their clothing.
Read another way, it could communicate that she's a late riser and struggles through brunch. The crude language could further indicate her state of wavering consciousness during the preparation.
One of my favorite headcanons/housecanons for D&D tieflings is their temperature perception.
That red one over there isn't covered in heavy robes because he's trying to be sneaky or sketchy; he's an infernal and acclimated to heat, so he's downright chilly on a nice day like this.
That blue girl over there in the skimpy getup? She isn't trying to look a slut, she's an abyssal used to the cold so she'd be burning up in normal clothes.
While it is true that some are boisterous about their laziness, look closer. Look at the smile, the hair, the lipstick. Time and pride was taken in her looks. Is that the bearing and confidence of one who revels in sloth?
I like it.
So they punish sinners basically just cus and it's also why they can't rise out of hell?
>In a world were good or evil are solid, concrete things[;] a "good" demon doesn't really make sense.
If that is true, then there is no free will in these demons. Therefore, such are constructs and dolls.
I, however, prefer beings which have been created from 'Evil' or 'Good' to accumulate a soul; and, therefore, free will. This allows them to be truly good or evil, rather than just acting out their nature. It also makes dealing with such beings more complex.
I'm not sure about demons being good, but I've DMed a game where a ancient red dragon was a devotee of the platinum dragon and helped the party many times, culminating in a battle with a ancient gold dragon who was corrupted by Tiamat. Ended with the red surviving, but only barely and be put into a stasis bubble until they can fix him a la rowboat grillman
only good character in Naruto
>There was one that taught medicine and logic when summoned, one that resolved differences between enemies, one that granted the ability to understand birdsong. Stuff like that.
Sounds like pagan gods redefined as "demons". Thanks, carpenter.
An Angel that falls ceases to be an Angel.
A Devil that rises ceases to be a Devil.
No, they're the "fallen angels" type of demon. As in, the war in heaven wasn't so much about them taking the big G's place as it was them being prideful and throwing a temper tantrum about humanity being more favored than they were. They are still unforgiven by god, and in his rejection of them and their rejection of him, have become actual sinful asshole bastards, as demons usually are. They usuaally take out their frustrations and anger from this on human souls, and this is bad enough to make hell, well, hell. The MC is a demon that has come to regret his decision to rebel, and is doing absolutely everything he can to regain favor.
It should be noted that there are entities other than them though. Hell has its "natural" inhabitants, which are animalistic/tribal in nature.
Stop using alignments you chucklefucks.
Especially alignment subtypes.
I'm not sure I understand the thread but I've daydreamed D&D multiverse headcanon on what it really means to be an evil outsider, what they really think like, why they would ever want to be a demon or feel evil should triumph when by definition their home and existence should suck ass and be obviously less ideal to the heavens.
Conclusion: the main "strength" of evil is that in can encapsulate good. This means demons can be cute and humane at times where angels can never be deliberately cruel.
Good is inherently puritanical (from a mortal perspective). In a plane of pure good one liar spoils the bunch and now you have corruption in your less than pure good. In contrast one honest demon in hell does not spoil the concept of evil. On the contrary, lying means nothing if no one ever tells the truth or idealizes honesty. Evil is inherently reactive to/shadows the concept of good living (which is the main "strength" of good. It can exist by itself wholly and ideally).
So a demon while ultimately selfish and cruel in their very existence, can have the capacity to hope so they can feel and understand despair. Care so they can feel loss.
Being a being of pure evil (in D&D) therefore imo is more being fundamentally skeptical to idealism and hope for the universe. Demons can be happy and kind at times, but they feel in their very core a sense that it will never work out in the long run. So you might as well struggle for yourself and only yourself. That's the best you can hope for (and even that will probably fail). Evil is in part the very idea of unfairness applied to the multiverse. The concept that a genuine friendship might spoil on no ones fault. To be pure evil is in part to live that unfairness.
So your cutie demons waifu might genuinely care... maybe.. but she'll never in a million years sacrifice herself for you. Because that would be implying something greater like love beyond the temporary is possible and worthwhile.
No, this is just a thread where OP decided he wanted to have a thread about succubi thread and this time around didn't even bother trying to make it have any sort of topic.
So here we are