Dragon-off

>man

Tiamat is immune to fire.

Tiamat is not just a dragon. She's a deity. A major deity of primal chaos and evil.
She's a bit beyond the scope of nukes.

Lofwyr.

He hires a team of shadowrunners for dirt-cheap price that blows up Tiamat/sends her to another dimension/feeds her to Chicago bugs.

No, really. Seeing as how shadowrunners deal with absolute bullshit on daily basis (INSECT SPIRITS AND YAMA KINGS AND ALL KINDS OF BULLSHIT), I'm sure that they will be able to figure out how to do it.

It depends where they fight. How much tougher Tiamat is than an "average" Greater Dragon? Will Lofwyr hire an army, artillery, and airforce to help him? Can Tiamat counter it with an army of her own, and mages? Does Tiamat, being a deity and mother of the dragons know more than Lofwyr who has lived trough many worlds?

I think I could strawman it like a Batman vs Superman on level of dragons.

Oh for fuck's sake.
Tiamat is not a greater dragon.
She's the motherfucking goddess of greater dragons. She's not just 'tougher', she's an entity of a greater order. It's not like Batman versus Superman, it's like Batman versus Lucifer.

Maybe if Lofwyr has Doomguy on his speed dial, but your average hobo with a shotgun is a little out of their depth on this one.

I'm pretty sure he does. Or at the very least, he has people on his speed dial who know Doomguy and can free him out of Hell.

>doomguy
>being hired
>holding a job

>Lucifer vs Batman
Assuming DC, Lucifer wins because they're written by Neil Gaiman.

Yeah, because DC Lucifer surely needs writer bias to win against Batman.

>but your average hobo with a shotgun is a little out of their depth on this one.
>Doomguy
>THE Doomguy
>Average hobo with a shotgun

>Tiamat vs Lofwyr
You think I'm going to use D&D Tiamat? HAHA! Lowfyr's now dealing with a primordial deity, who's fucked now?

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension.

Tiamat.

Tiamat and Lofwyr would engage in proxy fights to judge their opponents strength first. Evil or duped adventurers for Tiamat, Shadowrunners for Lofwyr. They would discover through these missions for information gathering, sabotage, and assassination that a straight up fight between the two is far too risky. They would then start magical research into finding a macguffin capable of crippling the other. For the next few centuries, a shadow war is fought between the two. The first to find something capable of crippling the other is the one who wins.

Seriously guys, they're arrogant and greedy, not stupid.

I don't really understand on what basis so many people are shilling Lofwyr to this level. I'm well aware Shadowrun dragons are not the same thing as D&D dragons, but Tiamat is a major primal deity. How do they even compare?

This. But I suppose it's just Shadowrun fans.

I mean, I like Shadowrun, but I can tell when Tiamat would just break the poor guy in half. Lofwyr's main thing is wealth and influence, right? Tiamat would just fly over and sit on him.

Lets compare the numbers.

In the latest stating of Tiamat she had around 650 hp?

A Balista in 5e does 3d10 damage. (average of 16.5).
This means it would take about 40ish ballistics hits to take Tiamat down.

Now compare a Balista to armor piercing tank rounds, tomahawk missiles, 50 caliber sniper rifles, anti-aircraft flak guns, hell, there's even laser weapon in SR.

How long will those 650 hit points last against the army of man, under Lofwyr's control?

Do I think the average shadowrunner group has a chance? Hell no. Do I think she can survive 100 tank buster missiles HELLLLL no.

And yet her avatar dies when pasted by the shockwave from the nuke, cause that's force damage. Nevermind the radiation. Granted she's a god so that won't kill her spirit on it's own so there's gonna be a grudge match in a year and a day if he doesn't have a soul trap or some shit. Still putting my money on the dragon with nukes and a modern army. We've seen adventurers with swords and sorcery take her down, no reason to think a well prepared army couldn't do the same.

>650 hit points
user, if you're comparing hit points along, I'm not sure you're really qualified to judge this.

Wizards have even lower hit points, you know. I'm not actually sure Lofwyr could take a high level D&D Wizard. Consider that.

read the OP it isn't a 1v1. Lofwyrs got his boys. No wizard is going to stop a bullet faster than the speed of sound.

Why lesser?

You don't seem to understand. It's simple math.

Tiamat can defeat Lowfyr, sure.
Lowfyr can hire a team of murderhobos or an army or somehow use the insect spirits or use lesser deities etc.
A team of murderhobos can defeat Tiamat.
An army is guaranteed to defeat Tiamat.
Insect spirits will make Tiamat wish she was in hell.

It's simply a matter of whether it's a straight-up PvP 1v1 fight, or a strategical battle. The OP seems to indicate the latter. Therefore, Lowfyr wins.

>No wizard is going to stop a bullet faster than the speed of sound.
Do you play D&D?

No one will even see that wizard before he cracks the plane in half.

>Lofwyr wins because he's richer and he can afford nukes
Disregarding the fact that Tiamat is immune to anything that isn't divine or epic-level in nature...
Are you aware that Tiamat is immeasurably wealthier than Lofwyr, right?
And she has inherent knowledge of anything related to dragons, so she knows exactly what he has got and what technology he has access to. If Lofwyr had any weapon to use against her, she could just buy it. Hell, she could buy *him*.

No, Lofwyr wins becaue he's got access to Azzie blood magic that can murder anyone anywhere in the universe provided you have a sample of blood of his relative.
Any dragon is a relative of Tiamat. Therefore...

>Tiamat can defeat Lowfyr, sure.
Yes.

>Lowfyr can hire a team of murderhobos or an army or somehow use the insect spirits or use lesser deities etc.
Tiamat is richer than Lofwyr. If we consider wealth a factor, it's against him.

>A team of murderhobos can defeat Tiamat.
A team of murderhobos that have reached into near-godhood, perhaps.

>An army is guaranteed to defeat Tiamat.
Tiamat is immune to physical damage and even if her avatar were to be destroyed, it would just be an inconvenience.
And she has armies across the planes, you know.

Look man, as implies, Tiamat is just like a better version of Lofwyr.

I double dare you to use that blood magic on her, too.

> physical damage
laughing_shadowrun_mages/shamans/adepts.jpg
You realize Shadowrun has a concept of essence and almost any mage (except technomancers) has direct access to spirit world?
I'm talking about "insect spirits casually eating Tiamat's soul" level of bullshit here.

>essence
Astral, I mean.

>No wizard is going to stop a bullet faster than the speed of sound.
Holy crap.

Uh. Have you played high level D&D user? In the nicest way possible. Your ignorance is showing.

>Insect spirits will make Tiamat wish she was in hell.
She is in hell. Is her home.

Alright, will make her wish she was in Doublehell. Or Spookytown.

Are we allowing cross world contamination here? Can Tiamat not just out bid Lowfyr with her literal near infinite wealth and use the same tactics on him?

This really has to be a war done without money, because for every coin, credit, or dollar, Lowfyr has Tiamat also has.

>because for every coin, credit, or dollar, Lowfyr has Tiamat also has
Not to mention access to D&D casters. Shadowrun casters can't even leave their plane.

We're comparing two different settings with different ideas of magic and supernatural powers, but still, one thing is having casual access to magical powers and one thing is being able to harm a deity. And you're basically implying that a deity has a soul comparable to that of a mortal.

But that's not all.
Tiamat outclasses Lofwyr in every field.

Direct confrontation? Tiamat is physically stronger and is a fucking deity, and she has insane spells in addition to that.

Magic influence? Again, Tiamat has superior magic powers without even considering those inherent to her deity status.

Wealth? Lofwyr is filthy rich, sure. Tiamat's wealth is measured in quadrillions of gold coins. I'm pretty sure she could buy Shadowrun's plane of existence if it was for sale.

Intel? Lofwyr's comes from his own magic, that of his hired mages, and whatever net of satellites and whatever else he can buy. Tiamat is almost omniscent in regards to everything concerning dragons, can out-buy whatever intel net Lofwyr has bought, and has superior magic. She can scry whatever he's doing from another plane of existance. At least fluff-wise (and Lofwyn is entirely fluff, so it's not something you can disregard), she can influence events from other planes as well.

Weapons, minions, supplies? Lofwyr has everything money can buy. Tiamat is, again, immeasurably richer, and in addition to that she has control over flights of chromatic dragons from multiple planes of existence and other minions.

So how is Lofwyn going to win again?

Well, according to OP,
> Tiamat has all the benefits of a lesser deity
> Lowfyr has the pull and influence of Saeder-Krupp
The thing is, a lesser deity in Shadowrun is something along the lines of Yama Kings, which while terrifying apparently can be defeated by a team of well-connected murderhobos, or Totem Spirits, I guess.

On the other hand, the pull and influence of SK is not all-powerful in SR universe.

Yes they can. There is also a fuck ton more Shadowrun casters at all power levels than D&D. A level 20 mage is something like a once in a century event? Shadowrun has multiple mages at least that powerful AND some immortals kicking around that can sling some serious spells.

Enough I can guarantee he can equip an army with dragon killing tech.

Saying that Tiamat's powers should be defined by how powerful deities are in Shadowrun equals saying that Lofwyr is just another dragon from D&D, and thus Tiamat uberstomps him.

The thing is, astral realm in SR universe is a very real concept that is used to fight shit that would normally curbstomp you. Your magic doesn't really help you when a shaman is fighting your spirit instead of your body.

> Tiamat has all the benefits of a lesser deity
Why Lesser? She has never BEEN lesser in any edition or pre-edition. Her Aspects (Pieces of her) might have had equivalently level of lesser deities.
But if the match is now about an Aspect vs Lofwyr, well now his against a Demi-god WITH a greater gods back up support. Basically fighting two things now. And even if he could out match a solo encounter vs the lesser: Who cares? Tiamat will just make another in a year, or come herself if she cared enough.

Sorry tangent. Why lesser?

>your magic
Your magic, power, wealth, connections etc., I mean.

Exactly. They're simply different power scales.
Tiamat literally controls flights of Lowfyrs in the chromatic dragons.

>There is also a fuck ton more Shadowrun casters at all power levels than D&D.
And Tiamat can outbid Lofwyr for all of them.

Oh my fucking god. We're talking about a deity. What gives you the impression that they have a body and a spirit distinct in the same way as a mortal being?

Your magic would matter quite a bit.

>outbid
Probably. But you're assuming two things
>All mages will work for a literal evil
>Tiamat gets to have her horde in addition to the powers

Yeah and the Astral Realm in D&D is the background the Gods used to create the universe where many of them- Presumable including Tiamat- gain more power just by being there.
Apples and Oranges, which Astral do we use? Do we use both? Tiamat so happens to have this deal going on with a couple of Githyanki there.

Tiamat is just the draconic correspondence for the pantheistic/panentheistic principle variously known as Pan, Baphomet, Krishna, etc. "Fighting against Tiamat" is incoherent in this context. She's literally the mother of all good and evil. Like, Isaiah 45:7, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Do you even into real magick

The rules of SR universe?
I mean, you can powerwank all you want, but unless you establish some rules, we won't get anywhere.
Pretty much, the OP's question depends on a ot of factors he failed to specify.

Why would Lofwyr have access to whatever he can buy with his wealth while Tiamat wouldn't?

Right. Let's say that shaman wants to take on Zeus. How successful is he gonna be?

Exactly. Tiamat isn't just any deity too, she's THE deity of dragons. And you're putting her against a lowly dragon-spawn of hers. It doesn't matter how much money or connections he has in this case.

Only crap like Nicol Bolas is going to stand much chance.

> Right. Let's say that shaman wants to take on Zeus. How successful is he gonna be?
Depends on his preparations. He has a quite probable shot at it, though.

>>All mages will work for a literal evil
While Tiamat is factually evil in the D&D universe she does have obligations for the balances of power and blah blah blah. Basically there are Good Dragons, and specific good clerics that get to skirts the rules and work for her but do good. (No these have never been player options, but they still exist in lore).

Also. Scheming. Good or bad is totally irreverent. For both of them. They both scheme well enough to avoid that problem.

>I mean, you can powerwank all you want, but unless you establish some rules, we won't get anywhere.
But that's the issue right. If she has access to any of her vast divine powers and magic, she can just show up and eat Lofwyr.

She knows everything he's doing.

Because it was stated in the OP that Tiamat had the powers of a lesser god. Didn't say anything about the nigh endless wealth it possess separate of this power.

On the other hand it was explicitly stated that Lofwyr would have all of his resources at his disposal.

Still have the issue of people not wanting to work for Tiamat. Lofwyr will have mages that he employs or can convince to work with him for money. Lets not forget that he could also convince other dragons to help him out with all of his resources.

>The rules of SR universe?
Well, enlighten me of whatever bits of rules of the SR universe I have missed, for I still do not see why Tiamat would be any less powerful, or even defenseless, on SR's astral plane. Or are you implying she's not comparable to an awakened?

>Lets not forget that he could also convince other dragons to help him out with all of his resources.
So am I missing something, but can't Tiamat literally mind control dragons?

Is that a power it can have as a lesser deity? Or would that be restricted to "normal" divine status?

If Tiamat can have that power while restricted to "lesser deity" then I would say Lofwyr is absolutely fucked. All Tiamat would have to do in that case is recruit some of the other SR dragons via mind control.

>Because it was stated in the OP that Tiamat had the powers of a lesser god. Didn't say anything about the nigh endless wealth it possess separate of this power.
Even if demoted to lesser god, she would still have the endless wealth thing. It's part of her lore as queen of dragons. So is the divining knowledge of what many dragons are doing.

>Still have the issue of people not wanting to work for Tiamat.
That's like saying there are people that would not want to work for Lofwyr, just cause. Also even if there was that case, why would a few people not willing to work with her matter in the slightest? She could gate in a yes- infinite amount of high level followers that would even do it for free.
And I'm not talking about a 10th level cleric. Things like 20th level ex-PC wizard kobold.

>Is that a power it can have as a lesser deity? Or would that be restricted to "normal" divine status?
Nope, the gasps as far as mortals are concerned between Lesser, Intermediate, Greater, and even Overgod are nothing.
Those levels are just to state which god is more powerful than which other god. There are few abilities that a lesser or greater god would have but nothing that would be relevant to this fight.

So you're saying people in Shadowrun will work for Lofwyr but not for Tiamat. Whom they don't even known and has an history of beguiling and seducing mortals. And again, we aren't talking about knights from Noblebrightalot, but of people from Shadowrun.

It all boils to this: Tiamat vastly outclasses Lofwyr in every possible way. Everything Lofwyr can do on his own, she can do better. Everything Lofwyr can buy, she can buy a million more times. She has by herself means of extraplanar scrying and intervention, especially over dragonkind, and extraplanar transportation; she's a being of a higher order that trascends mortal limits; she has an actual loyal army of her own of uncountable dragons and dragonic minions from across multiple planes and can control other dragons as well. She doesn't even need to be there to pwn Lofwyr.

Tiamat wins.

If you don't agree, you're either a fag, or a straight girl.

And since everyone knows, there are no girls on the internet, if you do not pick Tiamat, you're automatically a fag.

Fag.

>a god vs a dragon

It's like that scene in Rick and Morty with Man vs. Car.

Spoiler: the Car wins.

So, because apparently Tiamat is using the exact version necessary to have all the advantages, Tiamat wins, whereas Lofwyr is automatically a super loser who has his company bought out from under him by a giant five headed dragon who vomits gold at people in the hopes it does something helpful. And nothing that the 5th world throws at her does anything, even though the 5th world can regularly deal with horrific spirits of unimaginable power.

Good to know where the D&D-tards lay.

The 6th world can fight off all sorts of nasty shit in part because of dragons and other immortal beings with massive magical power. Such as Harlequin. I will be the first to sing his praises, Harlequin is one powerful motherfucker. But Tiamat mind controls all the dragons and the fight is between her and a dragon. I'm not sure Harlequin could fight against that, even if he wasn't busy keeping the Horrors at bay. It's kinda hard to beat someone when they can just mind control you and the majority of your most powerful assets.

Where is her "mind control all dragons always" coming from? Does that work on Good dragons as well? Dragons that are explicitly immune to mind control? Dragons that can say 'No' to any power as long as they can see the person using it?

What are you exactly whining about?

Should they fight one-on-one? Tiamat wins. She's a goddess, for crying out loud, and even without the inherent advantages from that, she's superior to Lofwyr physically and magically.

Is Lofwyr allowed to buy shit? Well, why wouldn't Tiamat be allowed to do the same? You may say that being rich and influential is one of Lofwyn's strengths, but her immense hoard is one of Tiamat's distinctive aspects too, so it makes no sense for him to be allowed to use his wealth to buy nukes and hire armies while Tiamat has to be just on her own despite being wealthier and a renowned schemer.

>whereas Lofwyr is automatically a super loser who has his company bought out from under him by a giant five headed dragon who vomits gold at people in the hopes it does something helpful
Why is it so hard to accept? How is Lofwyn's money better than Tiamat's? Also Tiamat can, and has been known to, assume human or elven shape. So even your retarded assumption that the people of SR would have some superior qualms about accepting money from any huge scaly monstrosty that isn't Lofwyn wouldn't change a thing.

>And nothing that the 5th world throws at her does anything,
We're not saying that nothing in the 5th world could hurt her. But the assumption that a single Shaman would be able to defeat Tiamat because 'Lol, Astral plane' that someone suggested earlier is, you'll admit, pretty idiotic. And it's not Tiamat vs the 5th world, it's Tiamat vs Lofwyn.

>even though the 5th world can regularly deal with horrific spirits of unimaginable power.
Yeah, because Tiamat clearly isn't an eternal transdimensional entity of unimaginable power, right? It's not like she's an incarnation of primal chaos and the sovereign of all evil dragons, right?

>Well, why wouldn't Tiamat be allowed to do the same?
So Tiamat becomes instantly aware of everything the 6th (and it is 6th, my bad, sorry) world has to offer, has all the connections to obtain these things instantly, and has a perfect understanding of what to do with them? While Lofwyr is left twiddling his thumbs completely unaware that a horrifically powerful extraplanar entity has entered the world, after his blood.

>Why is it so hard to accept?
John, head of accounting is approached by a supernaturally beautiful woman who begins speaking in beguiling tones. John, remembering the seminar the department had to take last year, presses his panic button. 47 seconds later, as John begins to nod his head in agreement with the woman, the room floods with gas, and John is rendered unconscious. The woman is seen approaching several other high ranking Saeder-Krupp personnel. She is put on a kill on sight list.

>And it's not Tiamat vs the 5th world, it's Tiamat vs Lofwyn.
Except it's not Tiamat vs Lofwyn, it's Tiamat vs Lofwyn and Saeder-Krupp, which has the power and resources of a largish nation.

>Yeah, because Tiamat clearly isn't an eternal transdimensional entity of unimaginable power, right?
You do realize that Great Dragons, and moderately well equipped Shadowrunners, have killed the Ancestor of All Spiders, a God-being whose name causes people to die, reanimate, and become its slaves, hive mind spirits that burrow into your soul, hollow you out, and then burst into psychic shrapnel that repeats the process all over again?

Shadowrun is a setting based around the idea that with a little knowledge and a big enough bomb, you can deal with most problems without a lot of difficulty. If you don't want Tiamat to follow those rules, then fine, there is no discussion.

This thread is exactly the same as arguing about anime power levels.

Exactly.

That's a bet you'll lose then.

>So Tiamat becomes instantly aware of everything the 6th (and it is 6th, my bad, sorry) world has to offer, has all the connections to obtain these things instantly, and has a perfect understanding of what to do with them?
She's a schemer. She has extraplanar scrying. She has knowledge over all dragons. So I guess she has both the mindset and the abilities to go in well prepared for this fight.

>John, head of accounting is approached by a supernaturally beautiful woman [...]
Nice scene, but it still doesn't explain how Tiamat wouldn't be able to hire wizards and buy nukes just the same way as Lofwyr does. Because from how you're putting it it sounds like you can't buy anything in SR world unless you're Lofwyr. She can look human and has cash. She also has time, it's not like she has to buy nukes overnight.

>Except it's not Tiamat vs Lofwyn, it's Tiamat vs Lofwyn and Saeder-Krupp, which has the power and resources of a largish nation.
So? Tiamat has an entire plane and is queen of all dragons in, well, most D&D settings, which means a lot of planes. But you're still arguing that only Lofwyr's wealth and domains should be taken into account, despite Tiamat having greater of either.

>You do realize that Great Dragons, and moderately well equipped Shadowrunners, have killed the Ancestor of All Spiders, a God-being whose name causes people to die, reanimate, and become its slaves, hive mind spirits that burrow into your soul, hollow you out, and then burst into psychic shrapnel that repeats the process all over again?
Why do you think I've specified:
>it's not Tiamat vs the 5th world, it's Tiamat vs Lofwyn.
Both SR and D&D have pretty ridiculous upper-end stuff and Tiamat is one of these things. She's confronted with a being that is far inferior to her but that can compensate with wealth. But for the thousandth time, if that's a factor, Tiamat's just wealthier.

So, here's the real question. Is there anything in the 6th world that can actually harm Tiamat?
If someone drops a nuke on her, will she die?
If someone sends 1000 force 6 spirits after her all at once, will she be scratched?
If someone uses blood magic and binds her to a stone, will she be inconvenienced at all?

Yeah but....

Aren't those adventurers with swords and sorcery high enough level to be almost demigod-level of power?

>If someone drops a nuke on her, will she die?
Is it a mundane nuke or a magitek nuke? Her avatar is basically immune to non-divine/non-epic attacks, so I'm most sure she wouldn't be harmed by a mundane nuke, while the latter ... I'm not sure. Better question would be if the nuke is going to hit her at all, considering she can sense everything within 10 miles, has incredible reaction speed and some epic feats that basically allow her to cast spell outside the flow of time, there are time-stopping spell and she can just go ethereal/teleport away/jump to another plane with what is basically instantaneous spellcasting.
And if it *did* destroy her avatar, that would have been just that - an avatar, not the real being.

>If someone sends 1000 force 6 spirits after her all at once, will she be scratched?
Probably yes.

>If someone uses blood magic and binds her to a stone, will she be inconvenienced at all?
Probably not. Epic and divine resistance to magic and all of that. And there's the same problem you have with the nukes.

Big question, what if you brought the Horrors into play?

>Self respecting shadowrunners ever dealing with a dragon.

>Better question would be if the nuke is going to hit her at all, considering she can sense everything within 10 miles, has incredible reaction speed and some epic feats that basically allow her to cast spell outside the flow of time, there are time-stopping spell and she can just go ethereal/teleport away/jump to another plane with what is basically instantaneous spellcasting.
Where are you getting this information? Deities and Demigods? 5e? Faiths and Avatars?

>Magic Nuke
In Shadowrun, like most modern fantasy games, nuclear radiation is considered magic.

>Probably not. Epic and divine resistance to magic and all of that.
So her mind control won't work on Greater Dragons then, since they have an absolute no-sell on magic that would effect them, good to know.

>She's a schemer. She has extraplanar scrying. She has knowledge over all dragons.
Why can she sense alternate realities that use entirely different laws of magic and physics (not even "same system, different subrules" an entirely separate, the two do not connect anywhere system), travel to them at her leisure, and know exactly what happens across a world and in space?

>She can look human and has cash.
Where is she getting this access? You say she can enter into the Shadowrun universe with impunity, why doesn't she just cast Perfect Disintegration and destroy the world as a Standard action rather than scheme against a world that apparently has no protections against her at all?

>But you're still arguing that only Lofwyr's wealth and domains should be taken into account, despite Tiamat having greater of either.
Again, the argument is about Tiamat herself. If she can, in addition to moving to another universe on a whim, also move her entire horde, a few flights of evil dragons, and several civilizations worth of kobolds, why doesn't she just turn all the oxygen on earth in the Shadowrun universe to pudding?

>Why do you think I've specified:
Why didn't you answer the point under that?

Tiamat can pretty much just do whatever she wants to the SR universe. She is a goddess.

What can Lofwyr do in the D&D universe? Sell some uzis to dwarves? Sell some computers to a wizard? Get killed by some adventurers looking for epic loot?

Lofwyr would understand that, at best, his ability to resist Tiamat directly would be a delaying tactic. So he'd replace her current consort and manipulate her through seduction and influence instead.

Tiamat is a god, and a very very powerful god, and specifically the god OF dragons. Lofwyr is not, being just one of many Great Dragons in his setting.

So you can see, like most character battles, this is terribly unbalanced bullshit.

And like most battles, despite the outcome not really being up for debate (Tiamat would win without question under most circumstances) there is of course a bunch of people in this thread who will insist the much weaker character would win.

ITT:
>People who have played both shadowrun and D&D
>People who have only played shadowrun and have no sense of power scale
Tiamat no sells lofwyr.

This.

I am a 40kfag who came here because I like Shadowrun thou I only played the vidya and read some fluff online.

Now I weep because threads like this in 40k threads immiedately turn into shitstorm of spergs with arguments based on "mah headcanon is better than your headcanon" and "n u"

Fuck.

Anyway, on topic, my money is on Lowfyr too. Diety-level beings have been defeated in Shadowrun, and if something can be defeated Lowfyr has enough power to do it. If he can use his influence ofcrs.

Now

I'd try and set them up on a blind date.
That said: D&D magic and SR magic / Tech are not entirely incompatible, we just have to know what buffs / defenses each has running before they encounter each other,

Per 3.5 rules, D&D wizards actually have a spell that permits them to start acting *before* they cast the spell that permits them to act: Nerve skitter retroactively boosts their initiative and lets them go first in any conflict, even one they don't know is about to happen. As such: Sniper shoots, Bullet hi- no, wait, the wizard casts nerve skitter, he's now acting before the sniper, he casts (insert winning move here), Sniper down, wizard up, game to wizard.

not the guy youre replying to but
>So her mind control won't work on Greater Dragons then, since they have an absolute no-sell on magic that would effect them, good to know.
she's the god of dragons, i think it is only logical to assume that an ability inherent to being the god of dragons (which is the ability to mind control / mind read dragons), dragons cannot be immune to right? that's like common sense 101

I'd agree except for the whole "god of dragons" thing.

>Wizard rolls spot check to see the optically camouflaged Sniper.
>Rolls a 6
>Boom Headshot
>B-b-b-but mah Nerveskitter!

Cant cast a somatic spell if your head is gone.

I just checked Tiamat's stats from Deities and Demigods. She has +71 diplomacy and can take 10 on any action. also +71 intimidate. any free-willed person who has communicated with Tiamat can no longer be trusted to act on your behalf against her.

Guys, why are you arguing?

Timat is Horror-level.

Do you know what Lofwyr, aka Golden Master did when the Horrors came? He hid. Not like a bitch, mind you. He waited, and plotted, and schemed, but he couldn't 1v1 a Horror.

And Tiamat, as the Mother of Dragons, is basically Verjigorim.

because there are a bunch of faggots in this thread who only read Shadowrun and therefore have no concept of how powerful Tiamat is, and want their guy to win.