Infinity General: Still at the Pool Edition

I played a Tagline mission yesterday and my opponent brought a 20 order Yu Ying list.
Monks and Kuang Shi everywhere, I lost a war of attrition against his Rui Shi and Lu Duang since they were repaired twice. How do I go about this as Haqqislam or in general.
Fighting a ton of dudes is not fun.

So at higher point values I would need to split them like this? Also how are the individual unit picks?

Haqq is one of the highest effective order count armies in the game. Just take a look at the Qapu Khalki sectorial and go nuts.

I know more orders is good but it's no fun in my experience. Though I need more than 12.
And countering more orders with more orders from myself? Seems pretty pointless to spam to counter said spam.

Except you're pretty much better at it in every way. If you don't like the answer then you could always go with more blast weapons. Seriously, a bunch of Kuang Shi and Shaolin shouldn't be much of an issue if their major hitters are just the Rui Shi and Lu Duang.

Lucky crits and sheer numbers of templates are a factor by themselves when they chuck almost twice the dice you do.
And yeah I'll have to get more orders. I'll have to finish my Lasiq.
My Djan did Allahs work but it was not enough in the end.

Defensive play all day. Snipers, especially MSV2 snipers, are invaluable, as are templates like rocket/missile launchers and mines. Infiltrators/mech deployed units are good for early midfield threat, and if he's relying on bots you can bring infiltrating assault hackers.
I don't know much about Haqq's options specifically, but all the factions have some way to deal with order spam.

Engineers are easy to kill. A Ragik or Fiday would make short work of it, and could go on to kill cheerleaders with their shotgun. The Ragik could even hack those annoying remotes.

Yupp. HRL Al Fasid can't come around soon enough.
As far as ARO pieces go, how good are the HMG Djanz for this role?
Got Ragiks and a Fiday so I'll just have to get them painted.

HMGs are active turn weapons first and foremost. If you just want an ARO platform go for a sniper or rocket/missile launcher.

Roger, here's a list I threw together with order amount in mind over everything else while still having 3 infiltrators and the 2 Al Fasids.
Thinking about throwing out the HMG Fasid, getting a Ragik with Spitfire and an EVO repeater REM in, though I might need to throw out a Ghulam aswell.

So, Fraacta.
Having two wounds on a drop-trooper is obviously great, but their other stats are so mediocre it's actually kinda baffling.
I mean, I have made good use of the two Fraacta I own and I will certainly be getting the spitfire variant, but I wish they'd be a little more competent.

It's such a shame the Onyx starter Fraacta looks so boring compared to the spitfire and the boarding shotgun.

They're alright. BS12 is good, and, like you said, they have 2 Wounds - which is rare for AD troop. WIP12 is poor for the hacker, but there are other infiltration specialist options with better WIP. WIP12 is mostly irrelevant for the shooty profiles, since they have Courage.

I'll be picking up that fraacta spitfire and I dont even play CA/Onyx

Deploy carefully and defensively. Have troopers watching those approach lanes during Impetuous phase. Not just Snipers and HMGs, but FOs help too. You can even bait them into firelanes using revealed infiltrators. After those impetuous troopers are up thd board, AD units can hit them from behind. Template weapons can really hurt as well.

>Fighting a ton of dudes is not fun.
You're right. It's not. But it happens, but it's beatable.

Damn, where's that PanO Christmas waifus pic when you need it.

>archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/subject/infinity/
It's my secret: A list of almost every Infinity general in existence, and the actual reason I yell at people who forget to fill out the subject field of new threads. Comb through those and you'll find whatever old shit you're looking for.

Well, there we go.
I think a pic of Kornak as Santa would be great.

>shitty hacker
It's probably the best that the combi fraacta is far away the most boring of the designs, otherwise I'd be tempted to run a 'three fraacta'-list.

Sounds like a plan. Should have forced him to go first since I got given the initiative.
Ragiks and Zheydans seem nice for some midfield shoot-outs aswell.

Dual Al-Fasid seems very mediocre unless you have even numbers.

Sure. I still think it's retarded that the starter Fraacta isn't actually a hacker and you can't field those Unidrons.

>Legate Hacker
The starter Legate is suppose to be the LT.

Or choose Deployment to choose the better table side and to counter deploy. Zhayedans in the midfield are good. But I think Lasiqs with Viral Rifles are better because they're cheaper, have mimetism, and in Suppression Fire Lasiqs can impose a -9MOD from Cover, Suppression Fire, and Mimetism

It's got the same loadout as the hacker, so it might as well be considered to be one. I mean, I doubt we'll ever actually see a Fraacta hacker...

>wallflower Kusanagi
>netrod smashed into the arches in the distance
Always find something new each time you look at that pic

>starter Fraacta isn't actually a hacker and you can't field those Unidrons
She can be the hacker, just because there isn't a fourth model that looks exactly the same but has an extra visor on the eyes and an outstretched hand doesn't mean you can't ever deploy the hacker profile. If you really want to go all WYSIWYG, just paint a few extra eyes to her helmet and you got your hacker.

>just attach googly eyes to her helmet and you got your hacker
ftfy

Oh sure and I doubt a new fraacta model too. But it also means that I'll never get my Bolt/Rodok Boarding Shotgunner that isn't also a hacker.

She's not a hacker though. I'm not saying you can never field one - she's definitely an appropriate proxy model for sure. But Hackers get their own minis to represent them and clearly the starter box does not have one for the Unidrons.

Not that it REALLY matters. Like I said, the Fraacta hacker is awful.

Eh, it has its uses. WIP12 isn't that much worse than WIP13 and it makes for a tough and mobile specialist. I won't say it's great or anything, but I'd hardly call it awful.

the Shasvasti throwing a bucket of water at Achilles.

Looking at the thrusters, you'd think the girls' mobile form would have something like Super-jump or something...

>when you walk your main unit right into Hidden Deployment zone
Not pictured: another Ninja (oh pardon, "honey badger") that jumped out of nowhere and struck Joan in the back while the Oniwaban was posing menacingly.

Nah, they're awesome and I'm scared of them. A Tarsos in comparison gets that extra 1WP but no 4-4 movement and no linkeating nanopulser. They'd be a great answer to this model spam since you can walk them in front of a chain rifle corner guard no trouble. Use the body of the closest dude to prevent any other template grunts shooting through him and divide your rounds among more distant targets.

If anything I'd chuck a Naffatun. They trade badly with warbands and Ghulams on the field give you angles to pull off 16" shotgun combos or set up suppression, which is a major tool against those lists

>Achilles is flirting with an Impersonating Speculo Killer and Umbra Legate

>Blaviken
>showdown
>not outright murder

>tfw imagining a list of three Oniwabans, four Ninjas, Shinobu and two Keisotsu just standing somewhere in the deployment zone taking a smoke break because they're just here for the last two orders
I fucking love ninja shenanigans even if they're not a purely winning strategy. Hidden Deployment en masse is just so fun.

That's what the Tiger Soldier did. The other guy started shouting "the butcher of Blaviken" with every kill he landed.
He managed to find the single blind spot in my DZ setup.

That's why I take the FO Remote as a standard. I'm too afraid of meeting a mass HD list that I need the satisfaction of the sensor.

Today's snipershot is the raicho pilot.

Yep.

... Ayyar Soon? A man has hope. A man can dream.

For now it will be a while until the pilots are all done, so don't expect too much.

I swear if the Hassassin Ayyar, Shikami, and Black Jack missing sculpts were just some advanced April Fools Joke I'd ... I don't know what I'd do.

I have this image of Achilles just going around going,

"yes it is me, the hero of man. Please breathe it in"

Reposting this from the last thread with changes. How does this look as a starting list?

Code: OwBgjAPmCsIQygFwIYCdEEsB2BzABADIYDOiEAAgMwCk0AHDQEwijUCEz1AbCCNY2BjswAFloBOMQN7tgtOnMbjgdYVwnrpjYXOjL+YFuxHjqKxeLra2YVXtXTVN6BJfSwwl3reGPz1wbg1OTkQA

Your list doesn't matter. Your quality of play matters.

You can take literally anything in the game and throw it literally against anything else in the game, and as long as they're point-balanced and you play the objectives, you can win the game. Lists never have and will never matter in Infinity.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the tactica seems to indicate that some units are more efficient than others. Your advice could also be applied to other tabletop games but you don't see people taking unbound lists of Orc Shoota Boys.

Ignore him. You quite literally need specialists to score objective points in ITS.
>take literally anything
is just untrue.

Your list, however, is a little low on SWC. A good number of specialists and orders (especially at 150 for ALEPH, good job so far), a variety of weapon ranges and a healthy amount of NWI.

Honestly, it looks like a good starting point to me. Missing MSV and some more slightly bigger guns (Spitfires are the best you'll get lots of options for in ALEPH) but that will hurt your order count at 150 points and if you are playing ITS that will be a bigger problem than the lack of high power weapons.

If you are familiar with the Post-human rules and the more generic system rules you should get the hang of the game pretty quickly. Any idea what missions you will be playing?

The maxim is a bit of a hyperbole, but it definitely is much more true than in many wargames

Balance is never perfect (Phoenix is grossly OP, morat vanguards are meh) but all in all it doesn't hurt you to take "bad" units as long as your list meets basic requirements and vice versa

No QT tohaa girls?

As soon as i posted this i reopened the image and the first thing i saw is the tohaa on the slide, fuck.

>HG2
I tried playing that once, but the controls were nuts.

No idea what missions. I'm just drafting lists for a 1st army.

It's a pretty nasty trick if you can swing it in Limited Insertion tourneys. I've done a similar list where I field the Haramaki ML link of three and the rest ninjas to make my opponent kill the HI, force me into retreat, and then take my turn using all the command tokens to cancel retreat on some ninjas to push buttons.

The game has no auto-win lists, but you can make an auto-lose one.

For many ITS missions you need specialists: FOs, Paramedics, Doctors, Engineers, Hackers, Specialist Operatives and maybe some more I forgot. A rule of thumb is to take 4 per 10 troopers, although quality of those is also something to consider (eg. a HI Doctor will survive better than the cheap 14 pts option, but will cost a lot more; specialists with infiltration can get to objectives faster etc). Then there's killy missions, like Annihilation or Decapitation, in which you don't need specialists at all, aside from their actual abilities (like Doctor or Hacker, for healing and cyberwarfare).

A good starter scenario is Quadrant Control, as it is somewhere midway between killy and specialist focus.

Note that people usually tailor lists for specific games. Usually players agree to a scenario beforehand and build lists accordingly and in tournaments the 3 scenarios are announced earlier and players are allowed to bring two lists.
Thankfully the Army tool makes list building a breeze.

Quadrant control tends more toward killing with ability to completely ignore specialist. Supremacy, the one with the quadrant consoles might be what you are thinking of.

Yeah, that game was a little too far ahead of its time. One of the first 3d hardware required games, it tried to do a lot of shit at once. Tactical stealth mech was a lot to handle and the control scheme didn't help. I wonder how it would have turned out with more refined yet robust control schemes.

Interesting, although with Aleph being kind of low unit I won't have to take too many specialists. My only other real question is if the Marut is good or does it just get lolhacked.

Marut is good. It has good stats and can engage most if not all units effectively, with smoke combo also being an option if you need an extra edge. BTS9+WIP15 doesn't quite make you immune to hacking, but not even carbonite will be able to do anything reliably and there are plenty of ways to kill hackers anyway. You pay heavily for the Marut, but it's also one of the best TAGs around.

You might still want at least one specialist for classifieds

Is the strategos l3 version worth it or is Hector/Achiles a better LT?

Strategos L3 is great, but you probably shouldn't be taking more than one of those huge 70+ point big dudes. You'd end up with a bad case of diminishing returns and half your points would be spent on 2 order-hungry dudes that fulfil the same role.

I figured as much.

Since you've been so helpful, what do you think of this list?

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>New Yu Jing player

Are Celestial Guard good?

I read one thread where they said the Zhuang dude in the Dire Foes pack really makes them sing.

So--Celestial Guard or no? And do I need to buy the Dire Foes pack? And What exactly are those--like expansion packs or?

Thanks for any help!

1 point classified that you can declare secure the HVT. Also Intellcom may actually be worth a 3 OP swing.

CG are must haves in ISS, but are more conditional in Vanilla. They are pretty pricey for line infantry, with solid competition from the cheaper Keisotsu and Zhanshi who are cheaper and have higher than availability 2. They do have two nice profiles in the CG hacker and the Kuang Shi Controller device. The former has good hacking stats and the latter brings smoke while unlocking the infamous Kuang Shi.

I'd hold off of picking them up unless you really have eyes on ISS or just like the ISS starter. Otherwise use Guifeng spec ops as a proxy.

Dire Foes is a strange concept, basically it packs two characters from two different factions plus a civilian model. They aren't super cost effective $ wise so I wouldn't put them as high priority for new players, but both of Yu Jing's Dire Foes (from Defiant Truth and Dark Mists) are super solid in game. Proxy first, unless you can split with someone.

>Are Celestial Guard good?

Yes, Celestial Guard are a staple in Yu Jing lists mainly because they're relatively cheap infantry with high WIP and decent stats otherwise. In the sectorial ISS they're especially sought after due to them being the basic trooper for the faction.

Special mention goes to the Kuang Shi controller Celestial Guard who not only unlocks one of the most powerful units in the faction, but also carries a LSGL which is a very, very good weapon.

>I read one thread where they said the Zhuang dude in the Dire Foes pack really makes them sing.

Zhuang is a decent pickup for Celestial Guard, but that thread is almost certainly talking about a Celestial Guard link team which is only available if you're playing ISS. Even there don't look at Zhuang as an essential pickup as you're more likely to be fielding some iteration of Celestial Guard+Kuang Shi core link (which he cannot be a part of), Wu Ming pain train (also can't take part in this), or Celestial Guard+Crane core (he can be a part of this, but isn't essential). The standard all CG link is where he really shines and even there he's still not something I'd call essential.

>So--Celestial Guard or no? And do I need to buy the Dire Foes pack? And What exactly are those--like expansion packs or?

Yes, buy Celestial Guard—especially the support pack which comes with both the Kuang Shi Controller and the hacker, both of which are great buys. You do not need the Dire Foes pack, but it is still a good buy as you need an HVT, it's the only source for MadTraps right now, and Zhuang is a solid character. Dire Foes packs are about introducing a few character Spec-Ops which, rarely, can be used as your Spec-Op model in events. They also give you an obvious High Value Target model which you will need to compete in ITS scenarios. Basically they're small glamour purchases that include models that are useful to have, but aren't necessarily part of your army.

Infinity has such a solid community.

Thanks for the detailed responses fellas, I really appreciate it. New to the game and kind of floundering around, even after doing research.

One last question, just because the models are so fing sexy: Yu Jing Invincibles--any good?

>Infinity has such a solid community.
Every game has its collection of assholes, including this one. We try to keep them contained with Vulcan Shotgun to the face as needed, but they do get out occasionally.

>One last question, just because the models are so fing sexy: Yu Jing Invincibles--any good?

There are a few Invincibles so you're going to have to be more specific.

There are a few things that didnt make it in

yojimbo was raging after his koala lost the race

bran and saito were fighting with those gladiator sticks on wall behind lunkhod

There was originally a tohaa bar further behind lunkhod that neema was working at but had no customers, though a 2nd achilles was there flirting with her, you could decide which one was patrocolos

Trauma doc life guard falling over and a machinist breaking a vending machine trying to get a drink

That depends. If you are referring to the old Invincibles models, those troop profiles have effectively diverged into separate models. Most people won't bat an eye if you use them as any of the S2 non JSA HI.

Out of the currently named Invincibles, the Zuyong are the budget HI, packing just enough stats to bully most non HI in the price 26-39 range. All the profiles have dual breaker pistols, making them surprisingly vicious in close. Standout profile is the HMG, which can be bought for as low as 35 points, but can come with an automedkit w/ lieutenant option.

Shang Ji are the medium costed dude, with better survivability overall with fairly elite defensive stats, but no increase in BS. Tends to pack flamethrowers which are nice toolbox weapons. Spitfire variant is pretty good at firefights while the Heavy Rocket Launcher variant has both long and close range templates. The hacker has pretty good gear for close range engagement while the paramedic is a cheap specialist on a durable chassis.

The final invincible is Yan Huo. He's a slower long ranged specialist with relatively mediocre stats except for BS and conventional armor. He's good at pretty much one thing and that is laying down the hurt with heavy ordinance. That said, HMC is an awe inspiring weapon, putting down BS 14 Burst 5 Damage 15 AP or Shock rounds down range. Even Jotums can only last so long and everything else gets annihilated by sheer weight of dice. Throw that many die and you have approximately 20% chance of making a crit. The Multi HMG is the more budget version with less burst and slightly worse range bands but a better ARO shot. Double Missiles are always fun to rain on someone's parade, but the odd range bands and low burst making slightly more unreliable to the HMC and Multi HMG.

As for models that don't have Invincible in their title, but generally can be lumped into them as part of Yu Jing's HI.

Wu Ming are HI that are somewhere in between the Zuyong and the Shang Ji in stats, minus the cube which makes them immune to some Combine mind fuckling, but riskier to doctor. They actually inhabit the same price range as the latter, trading the dual breaker pistols for some pretty mean and lean weapon profiles. All of them are pretty good with the Nimbus Grenade launcher and Panzerfaust loadouts probably being the most situation. In ISS, they are the core of an extremely mean and affordable pain train. In vanilla pick them over the Zuyong or Shang Ji if you like their particular point cost or weapon loadout. Yu Jing has a wide variety of choices in this range and that's even without considering JSA models.

Dao Fei is the one of the elite Yu Jing infantry, and a well known trouble maker. Imagine a slightly upgraded Wu Ming that has both camo and infiltration. The former makes them good in firefights and bushwhacking opponents while the latter lets them start in the midfield. Solid weapons combine with the skills to be exactly where they will be most painful. Spitfire/HMG brings heavier weapons than most infiltrators while the hacker gives you a two wound stealthy specialist who can handle a lot of problems at close-mid range.

Hac Tao is the Dao Fei on roids, trading in the infiltration for increased price but upgrades all around. Packs TO on top of some of the best all round stats outside of Aleph and Combine, meaning even if the TO gets neutralized, the Hac Tao can brute force its way out. HMG is among the best long range gun fighters in the game while the missile launcher is a singularly unpleasant surprise. The Assault hacker can deal with pretty much anything at close to midrange, while the killer hacker is cheaper but extremely good at punking other hackers.

Finally the Imperial Agents.

Cranes are what happens when you take the Shang Ji and upgrade them to close range badasses. High CC scores, martial arts, double action close combat weapons, and dual templates lets them live up to Yu Jing melee hype. The most vanilla profile is arguably the hacker, but even that is backed up with strong base loadout, WIP 14, BTS 6 on a Stealth model. The other profiles include stuff such as sensor and x-visor which aren't immediately powerful, but actually get you more leverage out of the Multi Rifle, Spitfire, and Boarding Shotgun. Triangulated Fire granted by Sensor means your Multi Rifle and Boarding shotgun will only need 10s to hit, no matter the mods, as long as you are in position to use it. The Crane may not be be the most oppressive profile out there, but you really can't count them out. Besides nothing is funnier than triangulating fire Achilles engaged with some troop and thus helpless to stop you from blasting him.

Finally Hsien are the other half to the Hac Tao equation. MSV 2 on a high stat profile means few can hid from him. Not the greatest in close quarters, but capable enough with a template and Martial Arts lvl 1. You probably want a sensor troop discovering those camo troops first but once revealed, the Hsien has little trouble hosing down those Camo, TO, and ODD units. For maximum fun, toss smoke to further stack the odds. HMG usually gets first billing, but the Multi Rifle is pretty versatile at close-mid range.

Roger, will do. How many of you Haqqislam players reguarly use Jannissaries by the way?

Good write ups overall. Here are a few more things to think about:

1)The probability of getting a crit with an HRMC is around 22% (22.6 and some change to be precise) which is pretty damn good as mentioned above. I'd also like to mention that the ML Yan Huo definitely became better with the option to give it Neurocinetics through TinBot C. It's not always worth it, but it's about as strong an ARO piece as exists in the game with its mix of 2xmissiles, BS 14, and ARM 5. Justice rains from above!

2) The Wu Ming are definitely some bad dudes on the field although the loss of doctoring ability outstrips the immunity to Sepsitors by quite a bit considering how rare those are. Another important bit to remember is that they have a cheap specialist option with no SWC cost through their Forward Observer profile which is something other heavies just can't do.

3) Hac Tao and Daofei aren't really that similar in terms of battlefield role and probably shouldn't be compared to one another. The Hac Tao is all about the damage it can put out whether that's through reactive shots with the ML, which I personally would avoid, or being an active turn nightmare with the HMG. The Daofei is more about being a tough midline skirmisher that can take care of actual skirmishers pretty easily due to its heavier armor.

4) Much like the Wu Ming, the Cranes also have much to gain in ISS through their ability to join CG link teams. It's actually pretty amazing watching them use that BS 13 and CC 22 when running around with four relatively cheap friendos to buff them. It was definitely this setup that taught me to love the Crane.

HI specialists are pretty great at times, especially when they're WIP 14 and Akbar Doctors.

Myself I never leave home without my tag team duo of the HMG and Akbar Doctor one. The guys down at the club are full of piss and mad when they start murdering everything.
Seems they have caught on how to counter them...

What's the Observant pointing at?

Uxia is qt as fuck. I wish there was more art with her.

There's two new scenarios in ITS Rules: Show of Force and Deadly Dance. Both are promoting TAG play.
Brb, making a Gecko list.

Now if only the Maghariba didn't cost an arm and a leg and was somewhat useable.

Please convince me to buy it user.

>tfw the only reason I bought the starter with the nomads was because I wanted to get these guys
Don't really see myself playing a game anytime soon, should have just gotten the shiny big suits instead.

>Now if only the Maghariba didn't cost an arm and a leg
Maghariba is one of the cheapest frontline TAGs you dope. I know a guy that fields one at 200pts.
You can easily build a 16 orders list with one in it, including Saladin.
Also, you have Scarface everywhere now.

70 Euros was the thing I had in mind.

Otherwise agreed.

Fucking christ, the new missions look like shit visually. There's like 4 different fonts being used in a single page.

Was was initially an idea for a psuedo-HI MI has turned into something else in my mind. Fluff goes something like:
"Despite the reputation of the Halqa for grit and resolve, after-action reports from Halqa officers repeatedly highlighted their units lack of firepower and resilience once de-bused from Luzige transports, especially in offensive actions. In light of this, Haqqislamite high command authorised the creation of an experimental support unit intergrated with Halqa at an organic level. Its role is to provide Halqa with additional fire support and specialised equipment. The Cataphract programme was overseen by Araidnan Zouave's (on transfer from the MRRF) training veteran Halqa volunteers. It makes use of the mobility provided by the Luzige to outfit its troops with heavy armour and a wide-range of weapons and equipment (some hi-tech equipment being sourced from the Nomad nation).
So far the unit has been met with high praise, enhancing the capabilites of Halqa as the cutting edge of the Haqqislamite armed forces."

Stats would be something like this:

CATAPHRACT, Experimental Mechanised Special Weapons Unit
MI, Regular, Spec. Trained Troops, Cube (Halqa don't have cubes but I figure if it's an experimental unit then recovering operational experience is going to be important)
MOV: 4-2
CC: 14
BS: 12
PH: 10
WIP: 14
ARM:3
BTS:3
Special Rules & Equipment: Mechanised Deployment

Weapon loadouts and costs I'm pondering, as I know everybody has a tendency to undercost home-brew rules and give them all sorts of crazy shit. These points are mostly a bodge job looking at Zouave & Sekban points.

(MSV1) Multi-Rifle, Grenades, Pistol, Knife- 23/0
Maybe 0.5 SWC to represent the rareness of the Nomad supplied Multi-Rifles?

Boarding Shotgun, ADHL, Crazy Koalas, Pistol, Knife- 21/0.5
Crazy Koalas again courtesy of the Nomads.

Spitfire, Heavy Flamethrower- 27/1.5

So is this a stupid, overcosted idea which nobody wants, or is there some merit in it?

Or even a stupid undercosted idea, which is what I meant to say.

Kinda looks like just a MI halqa with some nomad gear? What are you going for here?

Have the following:

Imperial Agent Crane
Imperial Agent Ph Rank

Japanese Sectorial Starter
Tiger Soldier
The Jap Bikes (Can't remember name--Akutai?)
Keis HMG
Domarai x 4 with the special character
Ninja Hacker

What would be a next best purchase?

Remotes

Doh forgot to put that in list. I have two remotes right now.

That's exactly it. It really came from fluff first rather than me thinking the actual Haqq list needed any additions, but i sulpose game wise and fluff wise they serve the same purpose- to provide Halqa with some more tools further up field whilst the Halqa themselves grab objectives.

More remotes