Pathfinder General /pfg/

Fetchling, gathlain, div-spawn.

>gathlain, div-spawn.
What are these? What's their fluff?

Gathlain are part-plant part-fey, with ivy wings. I remembered incorrectly though, they're small.

Div are NE outsiders and embodiments of pure destruction. They hate djinn more than anything else, and are most likely descended from corrupt djinn. They exist only to harm

That looks like an Azata, the silver hair and platinum eyes is a dead giveaway.

Also SILVIA, if you're reading this just bump your Wisdom from 16 to 15! You don't need the +1 and you can bump it back up at level 4!

That will put your Charisma up to a 9, which is like, the occasional stutter!

Actually, let me revise; an Azata would be more multicolored, what you posted is actually closer to an Angel-blooded. The eyes, the hair, the large perky breasts and general attitude of authority screams "warrior of god" more than "warrior of beauty."

Besides, that would be +STR +CHA, and anything Dex can do Str can also do.

Do you mean a 15 pre racial? Would it just be better to sink STR instead?

Yup, 15 pre-racial!

Remember, you're one level away from getting a free +1 to an attribute score. Factor that into your CharGen.

It's for a bushi warlord with the elephant in the room tax cuts. Fred send like a better fit with agile dancer too.

My only concern is how soon is that level up. If it's just by exp it might be a while into the first book.

And? The first book is easy.

Any sane man just does shit by milestones.

I meant dex based. I'm a phoneposting faggot.

I'm a phone phaggot too! Point is, while I'd argue she's best as an Angel-Blooded I won't rag on you for going Azata!

What did you want to do with this lovely young woman? What class combination and character personality?

Well, there's two possible characters, one of them being a Molthuni or Chelish military officer. The other is some Drums blackjacks. They both are likely bushi warlord|some cha mid-caster, like bard or hedgewitch.

The first is a no nonsense kind of person, the other, no art yet, would be a cocky, wanderer type. Either gender works for them honestly, I just like that art.

Has anyone here played with the Mass Combat rules? We're in a custom campaign, not Kingmaker, and the DM is introducing us to them for a huge climactic war.

I'd keep the Molthuni officer for the Molthune Knights campaign.

How would you?

From the back, probably!

...

That's way too many, why are Dex and Cha races so plentiful?

I don't think I would? It doesn't look safe.

No more common than dex/int races.

Moar dex/wis races when?

It's the Sue racial ability increase pair.

I despise dex and int now, you guys are so ducking obsessed with it I can't see straight

>OH GOSH HURF DURF DEX IS BEST ATTRIBUTE
>OH GOLLY THE STRENGTH GUY IS SLAYING ENCOUNTERS PLS NERF

Dexfags can you please just die in a fire, where are the Con/Int and Con/Cha races at?

nigga, even dexfags are sick of all these dex races

What we really need are more str/int races. Male Lashunta and Jiangshi Dhampir.

>Con/Cha
LOW
AZLANTI

How would you build her as a character?

Oi PFG.

What was the method of figuring out a creature's racial stat modifiers from its stat block?

I'm going to be playing a Warpriest of Gorum soon. I don't know much about the pathfinder gods, but I really want to roleplay it well.

Do you guys have any resources i could print off and keep with me while I play? Build advice would be nice too but it's less important.

I just wish STR/INT races were more common

Subtract 10 from the current stats? Do you have a creature in mind user?

youtube.com/watch?v=a6BbvCC0VI0
Just listen to this on repeat.

I accidentally reminded ID about how MA said he could potentially be open to a Literal Horse PC.

Would those resulting stats include the NPC array?

Why is BFG Dvision such a good song?

So I have been thinking about the Unchained Wizard.

I agree with you guys that my old idea of limited cast cantrips was no fun. I instead have a new idea.

So the Unchained Wizard has Primary, Secondary, Tertiary, and Banned Schools.

Here are how cantrips now work:
>all wizards can cast Detect Magic and Read Magic at will
>All wizards receive Prestidigitation and can cast it at all
>Arcane Mark is moved into illusion
>Damaging cantrips at gone, instead you have an offensive school power that is unlimited usage
>you receive all cantrips from your Primary and Secondary school
>You need not prepare these, instead you can cast them at will
>Cantrips from your tertiary school are in your book, but you need to actually prepare these as if they were first level spells
>you don't get cantrips from your banned schools.

For example if I was a Primary Transmutation, Secondary Divination & Illusion wizard I can cast these at will:
Detect Magic
Read Magic
Prestidigitation
Detect Poison
Ghost Sound
Arcane Mark
Haunted Fey Aspect
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Open/Close
Root

This of course causes some issues in that some schools, namely Transmutation and Evocation, have much more cantrips than others.

What I am going to do is balance it out by moving things around.

For instance in the last list I will likely have Root moved to Conjuration, you conjure Roots.

Penumbra from Evocation may change to Abjuration.

What the expectation of is the following:
>you receive 3 cantrips no matter what (Read Magic/Detect Magic/Prestidigitation)
>you receive 2-3 cantrips per Primary & Secondary School
>you receive 2 at will school powers (one utility, one offensive)
>meaning at level 1 you have between 11-14 at will abilities.

I may reduce it to only 1 cantrip from each secondary school that you could change out, but all from your primary. I want them to be tied to schools in some manner.

Any thoughts on this?

>I accidentally reminded ID about how MA said he could potentially be open to a Literal Horse PC.

I know you are speaking english but I have no idea what any of this means.

Hmm so should it be 12 str, 17 wis, and 9 cha after racial?

Unchained Wizard? Why the fuck would you make it stronger?

>Unchaining mages it stronger

>thinking unchaining automatically means buffing

see: Unchained Summoner

So the goal is not to buff them, there are some of the ideas from the Unchained Wizard.

>School specialization overhaul, instead of 2 powers there are 4 ( 2 at 1st, 1 at 7th, 1 at 13th level powers)
>School specialization now called "Arcane Origin" and is more specific, each school is divided into sub schools (you only get to choose one)
>No such thing as a "Universalist" instead one has to specialize
>Opposition schools would be changed, instead there would be Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary schools
>of the 8 schools you get 1 primary, 2 secondary, and 3 tertiary, along with 2 banned schools
>you can not learn or cast spells of your 2 banned schools
>schools have be upgraded (except banned to tertiary) via a feat slot, they upgrade by 1 level
>You gain an "arcane font" ability, which is essentially points you have to spend from to both use your school powers, cast legendary spells, and prepare spells from secondary/tertiary schools (instead of taking 2 spell slots)
>arcane font refills every day
>Bonded object would be the standard, familiars would need to be garnered through a "legendary spell" slot for Summon Familiar
>Certain spells would be removed from the spell list and transferred into a "Legendary" spell list that would act much like rogue talents with level requirements, feat requirements, and spell book requirements.
>some spells include Teleport, Invisibility, Contact Other Plane, Cloudkill, and Create Undead
>Legendary spells act like old opposition spells, requiring two spell slots to prepare

Making wizards more complicated is not a solution.

This. If you want a wizard to be more reasonable you need to take away the breadth of his spell list. The easiest way to do that is to make him choose from a fixed number of curated spell lists. That's one of the reasons Ertw's beguiler is so popular, because it's a full caster with low-end tier 2 potential.

The other solution is unfortunately redesigning the spell list entirely, which is an endeavor I do not want to undertake. Removing problem spells and putting them behind a specialization barrier is from my perspective, as someone who is lazy, far easier.

I could go through and rewrite/change spell levels to fix the problem at its root, but that would often mean simply removing spells and nerfing spells greatly.

On a whole this is no more complicated than rogue talents or rage powers. I agree that the Arcane Font class feature can get complicated, in the same way tracking bardic performance rounds are when you can spend them on Bardic Masterpieces.

Bardic Performance & Bardic Masterpieces is what I thought of when I designed it. Replace performances with spell prep and masterpieces with legendary spells. Then legendary spells being selected like rogue talents.

My biggest problem is without the wizard casting it is smart fighter. There is nothing else in the wizard chassis that would give you a base to build on. It is just 9 levels of spells. It isnt like a bard or a magus, where if you took away or limited its casting it still has other things it can do. Even the other 9th level casters have something to build on.

You would have to give it something else to go off of. Maybe the 4 powers would be enough depending on what they are.

You are already re-doing the spell list. Just make every "signature" spell 1 level higher, then scrap the signature thing entirely.

Tell me about the automatic bonus progression. Is it any good or does it make the loot boring and under powered because your shiny +2 keen furyborn battleaxe is now just a +2 keen because you don't have +5 from the bonuses?

Funny
Imagine if Paizo actually did it
Remade all spell lists
I mean all of them
from the scratch

Good idea, terrible execution.

It's really good, it makes magic items more meaningful while providing the bonuses provided by the more boring wondrous items.

Mark Seifter loves math the alternative rule
paizo.com/threads/rzs2t4fn?Automatic-Bonus-Progression-How-does-it

That's not the goal of the legendary spells to simply make them happen later. It's about opportunity cost. One can only have so many spells of this type, and they need to specialize to gain ones of a certain type (it is heavy investment to grab high end Illusion legendary spells).

It's about opportunity cost. Simply moving them up spell levels does nothing to change opportunity costs.

>mfw I start pondering making a 5 Wis Rogue NPC stat block, as a joke character to throw into my pool of random NPCs
>mfw realizing I would be creating a character that exists solely to get charmed and/or dominated by the PCs
>mfw it would have been a Female Kyton-spawn Phantom Thief URogue, 15 PB for NPC equivalent array, dump Int, Wis and Str, put everything into Con and Cha, with a sprinkle into Dex

I don't have enough guns for this one

Well you are actually more powerful since you get kinda 1.5x money but as raw stats so less flexibility

Innate Item Bonuses is a system that does the same but going for OP flavor on everything instead.

Been tempted to limit wizards to their two spells known per level and make them buy more from skill points, which they have plenty to spare from being Int SAD. Maybe require them to know similar spells of previous levels too.

You know what I want to see more of? STR/INT races. There's, like, THREE even once you include DSP and other third-party sources, it's annoying as fuck. I just want to be a STR-Magus or a STR-Occultist, is that so wrong?

Do they have recruiting stations? Bases? What really /are/ they? Demons? Vengeful ghosts? Aliens? Nanomachines gone wrong, son?

B-but you can't be tough AND smart!

Con/Int doesn't exist because Paizo know deep down, even when they're at their most deluded at a conscious level, that wizards are in fact overpowered. Con/Int would be "too good" because of Int based casters.

Tough & smart would be Con/Int.

Yeah, but "Legendary Spells" only seems to be a veil in which to hide the fact that those spells break the game, even for players that don't realize what they're doing. It's punishing without an actual reason to do so.

The easiest thing would simply to scrap the "Unchained Wizard" concept and just build a new class from scratch that matches better, rather than trying to keep it looking like a wizard. Alternatively, just play an Occultist.

Male Lashunta is all you need user.

I am unsure what you mean by punishing in this case.

>The easiest thing would simply to scrap the "Unchained Wizard" concept and just build a new class from scratch that matches better, rather than trying to keep it looking like a wizard. Alternatively, just play an Occultist.
I mean yes, likely it would be, but the point of this exercise is an attempted Unchained Wizard, not simply creating a new class.

But I want to play a female that isn't a Dhampir. Even though that's exactly what I want to play in RotJR.

Whatever. My point stands.

Speaking of uncommon racial ability adjustments, what would a +2 Str -2 Con race be like?

Give it to me straight, /pfg/.

If I stack these two things:
d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/feral-mutagen
d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/bloodrager/bloodrager-bloodlines/paizo---bloodrager-bloodlines/abyssal

Do I get 4 claw attacks? 'Cause that can be done at level 3. Which would be bonkers.

What if SAD casters just weren't a thing? The classes all have different features and prep vs spont, but spells need all three mental stats. Int limits the max spell level, Wis gives bonus spells and Cha sets the DC?

You can only use one natural attack per limb, I believe.

Aside from a waste of time for a player looking at it? I could see a sort of gangly insectoid race having that adjustment. Powerful on the offense, can't take much of a hit.

No, because you only have two arms. Vestigial Arms 2x would let you put the claws on those arms, but you wouldn't be able to use them in a full attack due to how vestigial arms work.

To expand upon this many of the "legendary" spells do warp the game, like Teleport. However, for a GM building around a single game warping spell is far easier than when they can have many. At most a Wizard will have 10 of these game warping abilities, and will likely have less as certain Wizard Discoveries & Other abilities (such as familiars) are also "Legendary Spells". Let us say that the total they can have on average is 8. For a GM them have 8 such game changing spells is a lot easier to account for.

Now I also planned on rebalancing some spells that were turned into Legendary Spells. An example would be Invisibility, which would not provide as large of a bonus to stealth (as +40 is far too high for standing still).

The opportunity cost of only having some of these abilities however means they do not need to be as heavily nerfed, and thus still are cool and powerful abilities.

Also another comment on this. Making Teleport come online at level 11 does not change the fact it changes the face of play, simply it is put off. That is another problem I have with it.

Making such game warping be behind a wall of specialization in my opinion helps.

What if I put two of the claws on my feet?

Ditch the max spell level thing, it's already uncomfortably mandatory when leveling up is the supposed learning the character is doing anyway. Casters could just use 2 attributes, not all 3.

>spellcasters are now all hyper-intelligent, wise, and charismatic
>martials fucked even harder

how about no

You can't do that unless you're a quadruped. Bipeds need talons if they want to have natural attacks on their feet.

You can only have 1 claw attack per clawed limb (arms or legs).

One sting per tail, one gore per goring limb (most often head or horns), one bite per mouth, one tail slap per tail, one wing attack per wing, one slam per slamming limb (often arms or body), one tentacle per tentacle, and hoof per leg.

So theoretically, a centaur could?

So I am actually of the opinion that the way 5e handled spellcasting is better than in Pathfinder.

Instead of a Caster Level having spells be stronger based on the level of the slot is better design in my opinion. As well as removing bonus spells based on ability score. The concentration economy being an important thing as well is good for the game overall.

I like these when I play 5e and appreciate them.

If I were to overhaul Pathfinder's spell casting I would at its base take quite a few leaves out of 5e's book.

I... Only on the front legs, I think? Back legs would have to be Rake attacks.

SAD isn't the reason spell casting is fucked up.

The point is they won't have enough points to cover all the bases, forcing them to become reliant on multiple stats like martials need Str, Dex and Con. So you get casters with high level spells, or with lots or with decent DCs, but none have all of that like a wizard or cleric or even sorcerer can do now.

Foiled again... Curse you, Paizo!

But if I were seriously going for that many natural attacks, I'd just play a summoner. It was just a stupid idea I had.

Oh wow look, casters now just use the highest level spells they can get that don't have saves, and there are still a fuckton of problem spells. Would you look at that. It's almost like the spells themselves are the problem, not how the casting stats are set up.

So who are the most MAD classes?

Archer paladin? Archer bard? Chained monk? Who besides barbarian are the most MAD?

Chained monk imo
Archers tend to only need a 14 in str and casting, and casting. And can get away with a 12 in con

Archer Paladin: STR, DEX, CON, CHA. 4.
Archer Bard: STR, DEX, CON, INT, CHA. 5.
Chained Monk: STR, DEX, CON, WIS. 4.

Gonna have to go with the archer bard on this one compardreman.

Fighter, in order to not lag behind, is retardedly MAD, as he is only really able to dump CHA without suffering.

More than one thing can be a problem you know.

Only needing to have one stat out of 6 is a design flaw compared to people who need three or four