Pathfinder General /pfg/

That sounds like a huge power upgrade to be honest. Not something wizards need. So, probably should NOT.

You can get a higher bonus to reflex with base fighter and sort of to will with vase fighter.

Not to fort though.

It was made by DHB.

Rethinking my molthune game idea; had an idea for a military camp followerof some sort who, through a combination of luck, heroism, and right place/right time, ended up helping save the day during a battle--not necessarily an important one, but through her actions turning a slim defeat into a victory or something like that, I don't want anything TOO impactful. Commander of the force takes note of that and kicks a commendation upstairs; between it being near the end of a five-year term (I have to assume that logistics positions count towards molthune citizenship) and the story being overblown by witnesses, in addition to citizenship she's given a knighthood and a parcel of land to knight it over. My worry is that it's a little too mary sue, but I kind of like what I have set up for it thus far--really play up the 'in over her head but giving a shot' without some of the backstory snarls I was coming up against with my previous character, or the need to twist around classes or multiclass to get the concept I wanted across.

I am conflicted. On the one hand, I really want to apply for this game, but on the other, I like making characters that will fill a niche not otherwise accounted for in a party, so making an application is difficult without knowing who else will be accepted.

Has anyone played a Monk of the Seven Winds? Are there any other archetypes that mesh well with it? Lightning Finish seems pretty handy.

Now is the chance for you to decide your own fate user! Be all that you can be for your subjects, your lineage and for Molthune!

The camp whore being elevated to a proper position through sheer bravery doesn't sound Mary Sue at all, heck it's actually really fucking compelling when it comes time to find husbands and wives and she needs to find someone who's fine with marching into a valley hundreds have before.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. I probably will not include the metamagic portion. Possible the empower school powers portion.

The metamagic is just too strong.

I admit I have my concerns about how high the fighter's defenses get. It is not something I have been able to test play to see if it gets egregious.

In normal fighter you can get up to a +6 bonus to reflex, and can get bravery to apply to all will saves. However fortitude is not catered to. I am withholding judgement until I am able to play it more or receive test play feedback.

The half prices hirelings may be abusable. I should specify some limitations on it.

Reminder that only underemployed cops can be played in the comfy molthune knight game, and that cute mage nobles have no place there at all.

Well, not every camp follower slept with the soldiers they served, you know! It was quite often they just mended clothes and tents and did laundry and shined armor and weapons and cooked meals and ran baths.

DAMN the Occultist is one of the coolest base classes I've seen.

Has anyone played one? I want to hear how it works out in practice.

Here is a thought I had for it. A barbarian when he is raging can have a +7 against spells/sla/supernatual abilities via superstition as a rage power. Rage Powers are something I put at near the same opportunity cost as one of the Advanced Armor Trainings.

Though Superstition has a down side and is also a morale bonus.

I think a good compromise would be to turn the bonuses into competence perhaps.

Woah that archetype looks like shit, it literally has tons of features that clash with each other and with defeault monk's. Good job there paizo.

Also I still can't decide if being an OD/ZS is universally considered to be a dick move

I just want to swing a giant axe around in Abadar's name without being a Paladin. Is that horrible?

If I were to take d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/net-adept-combat

Could I then use the emulate melee weapon bladeskill as a soulknife to emulate a net?

W A R P R I E S T

>Also I still can't decide if being an OD/ZS is universally considered to be a dick move
It isn't and don't get bullied by /pfg/ and their memes.

Yes but that's kind of a waste; emulate melee weapon is not very good a bladeskill. I think there's actualy a grapple-beam bladeskill too.

How big of a bonus to diplomacy can you get?

It's a fun class, pretty modular. So if you want to something in particular you can build it in that direction.
As for "how it works in practice" that depends on how you built up the early\mid game so it can feel pretty different based on those choices.

If Ordained Defender and ZS stack go for it user.

...

No I'm being serious he said you could get diplomacy bonuses with unchained fighter and gather information.

Do you want to be lightly armored? Brutal slayer stalker with bushi
Want medium armor? Warlord, bushi optional
Want heavy armor? ZS Warder, Bushi+int or OD+wis to flavor.

Don't buy /pfg/'s lies!
Basch lives!

I was just thinking that it would get me past having to fold up nets and stuff. I'm aware that it's probably not very good.

I was kind of casually considering making a warcraft 3 raider inspired character, and using nets to entangle and otherwise fuck up opponents. Which I admit is probably rather weak, but flavorful.

With a Powerful Build race it allows me to use nets on things up to huge size.

>it literally has tons of features that clash with each other and with defeault monk's
It's got 3.

I'm not sure which direction I'd even take one in.
Looking for some tales of first hand experience for ideas.

>Camp follower
>Doesn't sleep with the soldiers

That's more Mary Sue than what you had written for her! There's literally nothing wrong with being an ex-prostitute, really!

>No guns in Molthune Knights

That makes me sad. Especially since Molthune apparently has the most advanced military on Golarion, not counting any Numeria stuff.

>Reading unchained fighter... +5 untyped to every save?
Worse than a barbarian for the cost.

Oh, no, I didn't say she HADN'T, just that it was wrong to assume, and that I imagined her primary job was more in line with 'keeping them clothed and fed' than appeasing carnal desires.

Then again, I was looking at bard for class.

Draw your own conclusions, I suppose.

Let's see... Take INT 18 for student of philosophy instead of CHA. get +6 headband, +4 leveling, +4 inherent. INT +11. +3 class skill, +6 with parade armor, +2 masterwork tools, +2 from another trait, 20 ranks, +6 skill focus, +5 from class... We're starting with at least +55 here or +65 if gathering information...

If you really start focusing on it I think we can get into the realm of "a high enough escape artist check lets you hide in someone's anus" absurdity.

Wait, what parts of this are special for Unchained Fighter?

So if you were playing a game as a caster and got to prestige into any prestige class you have prerequisites to as a gestalt from level 6 onward, what would you pick?

>Man in Uniform
+6 at level 17 if wearing parade armor
>Friends in Low Places
+10 at level 20 on gather information to find someone to do a service for you

+16 from class to gather information

Since Creation disappeared from the header post, here are all the SoP playtests again:

Creation Handbook Playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/1kitAB8sHgmuD3fvOMuI_KyV_dxpO2wrxQmbnCoRgglA/edit?usp=sharing
Dark Handbook Playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/1zHRZyaMh_QwWcQ-ROGCjQyCdflD6cbm9VdEOJMpC06I/edit?usp=sharing
Mind Handbook Playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/1Kp4acH7zTk4e3DfPdYDfTk1jJClly3yp27Jfrf3FRWw/edit?usp=sharing
Time Handbook Playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/1xrcVb8f4isNrnf0c4A-ek9AmU8UD9nNULJF5v6dRwNM/edit?usp=sharing
War Handbook Playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/1wKYQDiexOl7efIFLp_1nfJIlj9ky04senq8l6WbweQk/edit?usp=sharing

Gear of Power Playtest: docs.google.com/document/d/1zIomq0TFP7uPdlFB8VRAIWQEjAXLV5CYpP3HmjySynU/edit?usp=sharing
Wild Magic Handbook: docs.google.com/document/d/1xBfoH6YcTdD3kwjn3ikItWPBGzIm9g3SVkVvUQD1yUw/edit?usp=sharing
Wild Magic Tables: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NU5bK1Dyzu66KgIdrHNaaXBw1eHVpcHZHOh5BDaxMzU/edit?usp=sharing

Well
I've played a support Occultist and Front Liner Occultist.
As a support I focused on slowing and hindering enemies.
As a Battle Occultist I made got a lot of mileage out of the Transmutation for buffs to my physical scores, bonus magic on my weapon.
The best thing to do with an Occultist is to think of an early focus and boost it.

>pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Abadar

Ordained Defender / Cleric / Battle Templar

You could be swinging a giant axe around and summoning more of his power.

Add in Soldier's Assurance which lets you roll Profession (Soldier) for diplomacy, and give you free Skill Focus.

So +6 more.

Dont be sad. I am trying to find a fix using crossbows.

Extra +6 untyped over most standard methods.
Additional +10 to gather information.
Half cost hirelings, so run an info broker business, and you'll be rolling in the hay.

The hay is made of fine spun gold.

I like the concept, but I would rather not be a caster

Man in Uniform is a competence bonus, not untyped.

Friends in Low Places is untyped for the +10. Honestly doesn't seem so bad for me. You could run an information broker business without that +10. Bard archetypes have class features that give as much. It's the Celebrity bard archetype ability basically, except based on one country rather than a population you can change.

How should I build a beguiler? Go full feint and mostly hit things or pretty much all feats into spellcasting stuff

So, I've got a couple questions.

For context: my next game will be a gritty sword and sorcery game heavily influenced by Dark Sun. Everything will try to kill you, you have to keep detailed track of food and water, everything will try to kill you, and the astetic will be heavily influenced by 80s style fantasy.

1) Is this even a good idea? I'm early in the planning stages, and don't really want to invest too much time and effort if no one would be interested. I'm planning on running this campaign online to work the links out, then at the lgs.

2) I wanted to restrict playable races to about 10- 15 (so far, Human, Elf, Dwarf, Half- Elf, Half- Dwarf and Thri- Kreen) to keep race bloat out, and so i don't have to find a place for the myriad of races. Is this also a good idea? I don't like restricting player agency, but at the same time a Kitsune does not belong in Dark Sun.

3) Is there anyone who can suggest some literature that would fit in this genre or style? It's my first attempt with this type of setting and could use some inspiration.

Thanks for helping in advance.

.
It's just not the same...

Reduce the race list even further. Have it be 4-5 races. Any more and you turn into a kitchen sink setting. It is partially what Golarion suffers from. I personally think the race list should be small and deep rather than wide and shallow.

You should not worry about "player agency". A player who refuses to play unless he can play a kitsune is not a player you want to have.

A Phantom Feel.

>you have to keep detailed track of food and water
Create Water/Create Food.

>DHB has shit opinions on race restrictions and player agency.

I agree with him. Players who throw a hissy fit because their speshul snowflak race isn't in the setting are pieces of shit and don't belong in a game.

At least you kept your trip off this time.

>shit opinions
Nah. If a race doesn't fit the setting, it shouldn't exist in the setting.

To comment on this further. If you present a setting with certain races the fact you will not allow a player to play other races is not an issue with player agency. If this were the case any form of restriction on races, classes, or options is a violation of player agency. As long as you present it up front that only certain races are allowed then no agency has been violated, merely the original deal presented. This allows players who don't want to play due to these restrictions (for what ever reason) to simply pass the game over.

Perhaps a player only plays elves, and will not play in a game unless it has elves. It is not an insult to him personally if the setting does not include elves. Same if a setting does not have full casters and he only wishes to play clerics.

It allows one to create a far more coherent setting rather than finding places for 50+ races (because there are numerous races in pathfinder when you start adding in 3pp, monstrous, non-standard, and more races). It's a soup with too many ingredients and the kitchen sink-ness of golarion IS an issue.

What's the best starting point for a flashy duellist?

Not enough autism.

That's DHB.

Daring Champion Cavalier.

The conclusions have been drawn and quartered, user!

Point is, she sounds like a wonderful young woman and making her a camp follower Bard would clearly suggest certain Performs, but then again it'll be great to see her just being cute and competent with her people!

There's also dozens of ways you could portray this kind of woman, interested to see what you go for!

>kitsune should be in every setting
you have shit opinions about race restriction

>Detect Evil and Sense Motive checks both succeed and do not flag the woman as evil or lying
>Party calls her an evil liar anyways and attack her

Good point. I feel like 6 or so should be a good number.

That won't be a problem. I'm using Tier 3 & 4 classes, and plan on heavily restricting magic. IE, keeping track of spell components (adding additional spell components), special requirements influenced by 3.0 Oriental Adventures (like that one class that required certain restrictions in order to use elemental magic), bandits targeting attacks on spellbooks and foci, etc.

>tfw took 2 damnation feats
>ping as LN no matter how many times I shank a bitch in the back
>party paladin is flipping his shit trying to figure out what is going on

Feels good man.

>tfw my setting has three races

I'll be honest that sounds like Unfun: The Adventure. There is a reason spell components aren't tracked normally, because that level of book keeping is a tad much, even for people who enjoy book keeping. I personally would still probably be able to handle it, but can't say I would particular enjoy tracking the number of live spiders I have.

Now, bandits targeting my spell book is odd. Do the bandits sneak into camp and search for my spell book to burn? I would have it in a locked box. Do they always attack while I prepare spells? Seems a tad odd.

Heavily restricting magic to make survival more difficult generally and be unfun if the restrictions are "in order to do magic we'll triple the amount of book keeping you do".

Oh? What three are you using, and why those specifically?

My setting has 7.

Humans, Four Stable Human Mutations, Unstable Human Mutation, and a Reptilian People.

Really they have 2 racial origins as 6 of the 7 are human in origin. The reptiles arrives by accident.

Mine only has humans playable because some dickass wizard fucking destroyed magic and it banished all monsters and non-human races beyond the Veil and the party is trying to tear it down.

Stable Human Mutations:

Mifeng (Chinese for Honey Bee), which are what would occur if you made humans aquatic. large and blubbery like a manatee, grey skinned with many folds. Nearly no nose, and instead prehensile nostrils they can open and close. Large eyes with black irises, making them sun sensitive, and a second set of eyelids to close over them when underwater. No ears, just holes in the side of their head which are also closeable. On their arms are large fleshy flaps that are fairly rigid and used for movement in the water, and their feet are longer and flattened.

Shetou (Chinese for Tongue) are taller and more lithe than humans, base humans describing them as "skeletal". Their originally developed and lived in caves. Their eyes are beady and also light sensitive. They have no lower jaw, instead a single massive tongue that hangs heavily downwards (making them prone to dehydration in hot climates). Their speaking patterns are warped due to an inability to use a lower jaw.

If you were starving and thirsty, wouldn't you track and hunt another group in order to kill them and take their food and water? And if you notice that several of them can cast some spells, wouldn't you do everything in your power to gain the upper hand? Ambush them when they sleep, target the things that help them cast spells (because magic is powerful, dangerous, and deadly), target weapons similarly (no sword, no stabby).

When your life depends on it, you'll do just about anything if it means you can live for another week. That's kind of the idea here.

Is that how you're selling the campaign's tone to your players, or is that just the BIG TWIST you're going to spring on them once they've made their characters?

Humans, Elves and Beastfolk, each with their own sub-species n' shit.

You failed to explain the part where that's supposed to be fun for the player who wanted to play a caster.

Daomu Zhe (Chinese for Ghoul/Harmful Spirit) are the most common of the human offshoots. From birth they begin developing scar tissue on the top of their skin, which builds up over time. The top of which calcifies into numerous hard plates covering the body. They can't sit still for too long because the plates will begin to grow together, this will happen if a Daomu is bed ridden. They also shed hair, teeth, and nails constantly, and are normally nearly bald except for hair coming out of their oversized ears (one of the few things that don't scar as badly). They have roughly the same physique as humans but are often perceived as shorter due to having a hunched look because of their plating giving them a bulbous back.

Xingxing (Chinese for Ape) are the last one. Take a human, make it stout and pot bellied (essentially giving a human the shape of an orangutan). Give a set of long muscular arms, each with a second set of elbows allowing for better movement (these joints are all double jointed with free movement). Their faces are much more ape like than normal humans, with large lips and flattened nose. Xingxing are often employed as engineers due to the fact their arms can easily reach into holes normal humans could not reach at all.

i need to make a DMPC that the party will rely on so much that it will seriously hurt them if they die

skald or bard, which is better for a mostly melee party

Unstable Human Mutation:
Guaiwu (Chinese for Monster) come in a wide variety of physical forms. They are often born to those exposed directly to the Shattered Lights. While the parents will not change their children are often born in freakish forms. Many can not take care of themselves or simply are still born. One in a dozen lives through infancy and one in a hundred live to adulthood. Those that do drew the lucky lot that their mutations have proven in some way useful.

Other:
Xiyiren (Chinese for Lizard Man) are a number of humanoid creatures that appeared inside the continent from beyond the Shattered Lights. They are physically light and slight, having seven limbs including a prehensile tail with webbing between all seven. They use these to glide and fly on thermals. As a cost for their flight they are physically weak compared to humanity. When contacted by humans they refuse to speak of the home they left and how exactly they came through the Shattered Lights, or if they can return to them safely.

Oradin. Or bardadin.

Why do you want to make a DMPC like that?

No, I'm up front about it being Fantasy Survival: The Game.

A lot of the games at the lgs are typical High Fantasy stuff, and I wanted to run something different.

Because it's different? Because it provides incentive to be proactive about your decisions in game? Because it's a break from the typical High Fantasy Big Damn Hero games that are typically run locally? I dunno man, how do you have fun?

I have fun in different settings, and really like it when I have to make decisions based on that setting.

No I am saying that book keeping is unfun. Hunting and risk is fun. Keeping track of several dozen spell components in a spread sheet is not fun nor exciting.

You have done nothing to tell me how playing a caster is anything but forcing a bureaucratic nightmare on the player for essentially no benefit when you have stated that your goal is to target those players. In character creation for force them to do something unfun then also punish them during gameplay.

I can understand targeting spell books, but you sound like the sort who goes beyond what a bandit would normally do and step into silly territory in the pursuit of fucking over spell casters.

bard-paladin, hm?

how should i split the levels at, say, 5?

because they wanted a buff bot and they'll get one.
they'll become attached to her.
they'll love her.
AND THEN SHE WILL DIE.

>Because it's different? Because it provides incentive to be proactive about your decisions in game? Because it's a break from the typical High Fantasy Big Damn Hero games that are typically run locally? I dunno man, how do you have fun?
Your "differences" are quite literally "I want you to do three times the amount of book keeping". You're trying to hide the fact that what you are trying to sell is large amounts of book keeping.

I am all for the break, but you are going about it in the wrong way.

>Are YOU an Al Bhed? Am... am I really an Al Bhed!?

Alright, fine. If YOU were doing tgis, what would you do differently?

Remove the spells entirely that are the offenders for a survival based adventure. Create Food/Water, Find the Path, etc. go on the chopping block.

Fly to Russia
Get a bunch of contestants to sign a waver that they can't sue me
Tell them 'anything goes, but the law still remains if you murder someone.
Offer prize money to be split amongst the winners

Do any adventure paths or modules have particularly good villains? I'm looking for inspiration for my own villains, but the ones I've seen so far all seem pretty generic.

>how should i split the levels at, say, 5?

I think it is 3 into bard and the rest into pally.

I dont get this reference.

We're all sand-blasted grease monkeys now, brudda.

>Because it's different?
>game starts
>spend a good half an hour making sure I have all different spell components
>actual adventure finally starts, we're supposed to hunt down some bandits
>the first day is pretty uneventful
>during the night, the bandits attack us and immediately destroy my spellbook
>spend the rest of the session being completely useless
>don't bother coming to the second session because the GM clearly hates my guts

"Different" is not automatically a good thing. Quite often, things are the way they are for a reason. If you really don't want people to play spellcasters, just drop the passive-aggressive bullshit and ban them.