Warmachine/Hordes General - /wmhg/

People were pissed off about having to rebuy WR2. People are now pissed off about the free cards. There's no universal solution.

I think people would be less pissed off about rebuying WR2 if it wasn't a colossal piece of shit.

You'd need to have a definite value proposition for a subscription service, and things like free time for buying battleboxes and such, but I think it's doable and I'm not sure there's another way to keep running a *good* game long-term -- people hate GW because 40k has been mature for a long time so they need to shake stuff up to force new purchases constantly. WMH is on that horizon, and its players are going to have to put money in PP's pockets one way or the other to have a tabletop game that keeps getting support.

if, at any point, you buy a model for the sheer purpose of you believing it is going to be overpowered enough to shift the entire meta, you're a retard for thinking they're not gonna nerf it if it does just that.

>killed his wife and himself
woah what. I had no clue something like that happened, god damn.
Also, if they did the subscription-based WR2 I would hope it would be something more "you get cool new alt model things monthly that you can play with as WR-exclusive content" and not "you have to pay monthly to use these cards"

honestly the free card announcement makes me happy, even if I did just buy a new deck that is essentially now worth 1/4 of what I paid for it. The best thing they could do, I think, would be to make War Room a pay-upfront app with monthly subscriptions (probably lower than what you're paying now if it's a subscription service) for things like the No Quarter magazine built straight into the app, or monthly releases of alternate exclusive cards that are appropriately balanced but add a nice new layer to the game.

PP should just sell pay to win.

$5: Use your feat twice in one game.
$2: Reroll a failed roll, or add an extra die.

You buy all perks in War Room.

so, since Kickass.to is down are we gonna have a repository somewhere for all the NQ/books and all that or do we need to download them one at a time now

So any decent changes in the errata so far?

Use the magnet link

IKRPG is already out, unless you meant something else.

Honestly khador is a net positive I feel for the game.

Madrak2 and Wurmwood got pretty seriously nerfed.
Haley1, Haley2, Caine2, and Ossyan got nerfed.
Sentry Stones and Hellmouths got slightly nerfed.
You can't power attack your own models (which is a big change, but tones down a lot of HR/Amon bullshit and generally improves the value of DEF).

Missing: Storm Lances, Kara Sloan, and Una2 were untouched.

What did they change about wurmwood? I see the feat change and I'm not sure I'm picking up on the nerf

Oh, and Mad Dogs and Berserkers got nerfed to the point of uselessness.

Alten Ashely and Lanyssa Ryssyl went up in cost.

Went from control range to command range -- 14" to 10", which is pretty major.

Oh that's rough.

Like an IKRPG computer game.

I think if you provided:

- Full, searchable access to rules *and a maintained and hyperlinked set of infernal rulings*
- Printing tools for building formatted lists with things like damage boxes on the list and such
- Early access to limited release models
- Game matching services with a maintained list of shops to play at and a slick interface for setting up games with other players

Enough of the playerbase would be willing to pay a small monthly fee for access to generate enough revenue to keep the game going without degenerating into the GW "shake everything up and resell" model.

But it has to be *good*. War Room is not good by any stretch of the imagination.

>no more throwing your own warcaster at the enemy assassinations

That's exactly the point, yes.

Cool in concept but it'd probably go the path that Warmachine Tactics did.

Haley 1 was barely touched an not any sort of real issue. Ditto for Caine 2. Haley 2 is almost untouched. It's fucking bullshit. Especially since they didn't touch the fucking 'lances.

I don't see much wrong with Sloan.

The game has gotten more and more sterile and standardized. People don't play nearly as much as they used to because the community accepted way of playing is just boring after 6 years.

This is just one more step down that road

So much for "muh page 5" and "play like you've got a pair"

>property being mad at war room 2 after the card announcement

To be fair, wr2 makes it so we don't need to print cards. They're always up to date right away. We can list build. We can also get access to theme lists without needing books. It a convenience thing.

It used to be that way friend. Times are changing.

playing with 2d "terrain" is awful

Not when everyone else is getting them faster and more accurately from other sources.

Yeah, I mean your models don't slide off the hills, you don't have to balance them precariously on objects, god it's just terrible.

you don't see the irony in using 3d models....

why not just play with bases that have names on them? that'd surely be more convenient

>Being this autistic

I could stomach the lack of balance. But taking away power attacking your own models kills the very last ounce of casual appeal. FUCK.

It's sad really, I'm not going to say mk1 was balanced in any sense of the word but I do remember it being super fun and new mk2 was the beginning of the end in my opinion since that's when the game took a super passive approach of just bricking up and fattly sitting on objectives

Did the errata at least fix takedown for troll theme thingy? Or they forgot/couldnt give a fuck again.

They took the league of legends approach to balance by making everyone boring instead of the dota approach of making everyone OP as fuck

It was fixed.

Yeah Warmahordes should be the YuGiOh of tabletop.

WMH is the only game I like to play with 2D terrain. The measurements and placement are just too important to derp around propping Terminus's 20lb fragile, metal ass on a hill.

Everything else 3D terrain for sure

except GW's craters. Fuck those things.

I mean forests, walls, shrubs, houses and the like are find.
Rivers, trenches and ponds are 2D out of necessity, since it would be impracitcal to move holes in tables just for terrain.

Hills and bridges are really the only terrain that needs to be 2D, and thats just because there isn't really any good way to make models stick to hit you could stick magnets inside the hill, but then you would have to have your whole gaming group put magnets on their bases

Individual magnets inside the hill and individual magnets on the bases? That's a great way to make models snap to a point and completely destroy putting them at arbitrary points. Nice job. You could've just had a thin metal sheet in the hill but no, you had to ruin everything.

Games will take longer

From experience of doing similar things in the past, you *always* want to solve this problem by putting something ferrous in the mini and the magnet in whatever you want to attach it to.

Else your models may attempt some strange pseudo-sexual congress in the middle of a fight.

Yeah but you don't want to attach your mini to an exact spot on the hill, you want to attach it to an arbitrary spot on the hill.

I am building

Irusk2
- Behemoth
- Kodiak
- Kodiak
- Sylys
Winter Guard Infantry
- Officer
- Rocket
- Rocket
- Rocket
Winter Guard Rifle Corps
- Rocket
- Rocket
- Rocket
Winter Guard Field Gun
Kovnik Joe

Funny thing is that thanks to the infantry cost reduction, Behemoth's increase didn't matter. Nothing changed, except that Joe got worse.

On a scale of 1 to Trump, how are you guys feeling about the errata?

And Cygnar is going to pay for it!

4/10

It's an average errata during a time where we needed above average errata.

>Cygnar - 11
>Menoth - 2
>Khador - 13
>Cryx - 10
>Ret - 3
>Convergence - 4
>Mercs - 4
>Trolls - 4
>Circle - 5
>Legion - 8
>Minions - 5
Total changes - 69

>Skorne - 89

1
Haley 2 needed a harder nerf and nothing was done for internal balance. Haley 1 and Caine 2 are barely affected by the changes. They weren't even that big of an issue, compared to Haley 2 and 'Lances.

What's this I hear about free cards? Did/will they release the mk3 decks as PDFs or what?

My gators went down a whole point, solving zero of thier issues. They still don't do enough for the pricetag. An attempt was made, I guess.

Overall disappointing, but in my opinion predictably so. They only utterly fucked up a few things (pic related), but some buffs are actually pretty cool.

Overall, the quality of the errata wasn't as much of an issue as the quantity... /10

Holy fuck they did say just that. This will certainly tempt me into trying mk3.

Yes, you'll be able to print them out yourself for free now.

Also, no more copyright. You can post them and directly recite rules where and whenever the fuck you want.

You literally get to bring a free solo now. Posse are good with some warlocks. Calaban can make them MAT8 PS16 on their two attacks which is very strong. Hell there's a bunch of casters that can amp up their damage output, which is perfectly on a model with two beefy attacks. Posse seem fine to me.

>Not running Vlad1 and 15 rockets

No knockdown Tough Bubble yo.

>You can post them and directly recite rules where and whenever the fuck you want.
Only on the PP forums.

Does this also mean that someone will be able to make a good War Room clone without fear of a C&D?

Lost pathfinder access at all, three hitboxes, a point of MAT, bloodlust moved to prayer instead of passive. They stayed the same MK II cost until just now. I played them in Barnabas, Rask, and Maelock in MK II, I know when something's gimped.

But hey, now I get "free" gobbers or feralgiest while i contine to be slower, less accurate, and less durable. Thanks, death march, I'm glad I swapped iron flesh for that MAT hit.

Just so you know, you're talking to a Skorne player. At least your heavy infantry doesn't cost 20 points with a 6 point UA before you even start adding the support needed to make it not die like a 7 point Agonizer and a 4 point Willbreaker just to hand out tough. And even then they still die to weaponmaster charges so you gotta only ever use them with Xerxis1 because he's now our only caster that can support them ever since PP decided that Makeda1 was destroying the competitive Mk2 metagame so deserved to be trodden into the dirt.

Fuck you and your woes, you've got more spells on your gatorlocks than I have in my entire faction.

God, I fucking hope so

Hex & Chit games are a thing user.

Am I missing something about the Hellmouth changes, because I'm not seeing anything other than soulless.

Glad to see Zuriel is doing better though. Still not sure if I'll ever field the Soldier or Afflictor though.

An old gaming store by me back in the early 2000s had a table with panels you could slide out to put trenches into it.

So, been thinking about getting into warmachine. How is the khador starter box?

The game is on its deathbed and if you have anyone to play with, cherish them for their fleeting existence

Khador box is pretty good

I'm moving to seattle, apparently they have a big scene for it.

I bet you play Infinity or Guildball, don't you?

Khador is pretty strong and so is their box, go for it my dude.

Speaking of scenes, anyone play in Tucson, and if so, how is the scene there?

Small chance I might take a job there.

Funny you mention that, I'm not that user...but I bought my first Infinity army after I read the errata today.

>Cryx player

Why are people acting like the ogrun bokur is such a good thing for skorne?

I would take cyclops brutes any time. They're fantastic.. A bokur can be one shot with a boost.

What's the Virginia scene like?

I ended up getting a job about 15 minutes away from Richmond.

I might be going Malifaux. Infinty looks cool but regardless of which army I pick there are one or two key models that are ten years old and look like they were sculpted by a chimp on PCP, which is entirely unacceptable in a game with only ten models on the field.

Cool, so what can you tell me, if anything, about playing khador?

Way less batreps on youtube.

Check out "WargamerGirl" on youtube, she only plays Khador and her videos have a high production value. Most of her stuff is mk2, but Khador hasn't changed a ton in how it's played I gather, except they run more jacks now. Khador stuff is slow, but has high armor and hp, and it tends to hit really hard both in melee and with often inaccurate ranged attacks with high blast damage.

Khador stuff is not slow.

Almost Every caster they has speeds up their jacks, and usually significantly so

Khador combine very frontline style casters with synergy focused infantry and very efficient, but low frill warjacks.

Their warcasters tend to take either a supporting or a very melee focused role, with generally very good defensive and often offensive statlines. Khador likely has the largest ratio of casters who are capable of doing a lot of work themselves, with the Butchers all great examples of this. Most casters who don't fit this role are very army focused in nature, doing a lot to help out their army to get work done. Because of their relatively low FOC stats compared to most factions combined with their lack of warcaster support, Khador casters generally have to play farther up, and while they have the statlines to back this up, casters dying is an automatic loss, so it's something to get used to.

Their infantry tends to feel pretty lackluster at initial glance, not really bad, just kind of there. But there's tons of infantry support in faction, taking their relatively ok statlines and turning them into monsters in the right situations.

Their warjacks are, on average, boasting pretty efficient statlines and good point costs, but tend to not have too many special abilities or utility, with some big exceptions. Khador's home to the Juggernaught, likely the most cost effective warjack in the entire game at this point. Again, they benefit from a lot of support from their casters, turning them into absolute monsters.

General weaknesses of the faction are a lack of real solid control elements and warcaster support. Khador wants to grind through everything, and can have real problems preventing the opponent from executing their own plans.

She's terrible at the game though.

Also, be careful, the edition change really uprooted Khador in terms of their playstyle. They got a lot better for it, but they changed up from a massively melee infantry focus to a gunline and warjack focus. Their melee infantry isn't really bad, per say, but it's not really rocking anyone's world in the current meta. Ignore this if you're just playing for the hell of it, but if you're trying to figure out what's good in Khador, ignore anything talking about Mk2.

Second this user, gameplay in those videos is horrific.

Production quality is very high though.

Lets verify that.

Kozlov: A +2 speed feat
Sorscha1: Boundless charge
Sorscha2: Boundless charge
Karchev: Road to War
Zerkova1: Nothing
Zerkova2: Nothing
Irusk1: Superiority
Irusk2: Energizer
Harkevich: Mobility
Strakhov: Overrun, feat
Butcher1: Nothing
Butcher2: Boundless charge
Butcher3: Energizer
Old Witch: Nothing
Vlad1: Feat, boundless charge
Vlad2: Assail
Vlad3: Infernal machine

So yeah, most khador casters have some way of speeding up jacks. But for the vast majority of them it's a single target thing. 4 of them rely solely on single target spells which only work when charging, 2 more rely on single target upkeeps, and 3 are relying on feats. So while khador has ways to speed them up, in general it's in a very limited way. And their base speed is lower than most others.

>Old Witch: Nothing

She has Field Marshal: Apparition effectively gives her entire battlegroup +2 Movement.

Ah, that's right.

Stakhov also has superiority

You usually only want to be/have the opportunity to charge in one or two jacks at a time to initiate piece trades, so those 'one spell' casters are actually getting a lot of work done. Especially when you consider the additional bonuses like pathfinder from boundless charge.

Khador jacks are deceptively fast.

Thanks for the info my dudes. good shit, WGG seems to have good vids, but the play just seems awful (even to my newb eyes) and the way she narrates grates on me.

So, working on a non-Una2 Circle build, centered on the Woldwrath.

Currently thinking:

Put an ARM buff on the Woldwrath and put him out front. Cast his animus, and then hurl knockdown spells (either from Druids, Blackclads, or Stoneshapers, all of which benefit from the Woldwrath's animus).

Two Razorback Crews fling Brutal Damage POW 14 shots at any big knocked down stuff.

This as a base (Woldwrath + 3 Stoneshapers + 2 Blackclads + Druids/UA + 2 Razorbacks) leaves about 23 points; Sentry Stones are the obvious first choice, but the rest of the list packs a lot of boosted sprays already, and doesn't have a ton of armor cracking, so Ghetorix may be the top choice there. Depends on caster, at least.

Question is, which caster? Limiting to casters that can throw an ARM buff on the Woldwrath:

Baldur2 is the obvious choice, but kinda boring.
Baldur1 is... probably more interesting in this case, since he has the forest upkeep to tie in with the Druid clouds (and he can use it to cover druids that dropped their knockdown spell instead of a cloud) *and* Solid Ground goes a long way to keeping the Druids alive (in a cloud they get stealth, and Solid Ground makes them blast immune, so they're going to be pretty resilient to shooting)
Morvahna1 actually synergizes with the Woldwrath's animus, as she likes to cast a lot of spells, especially on feat turn, and can bring the druids back with Regrowth.
Kromac1 is interesting, as while this list may not cast Warpath as much as he'd normally like to, Bestial behind a druid wall is going to slow down a lot of casters and let him grind them down... and an Overtaking Ghetorix never hurts.

Thoughts?

I just picked up the two player starter for mk3. I would like to build a fun, competitive Cryx army. What units should I get if I want to run a good army that casts many spells each round? I prefer direct damage spells and would like the army to have a decent chance of winning if played well. Most players here about play 75 points. Thank you.

I am playing mostly against Cryx and Asphyxious1 and Denegra1 seem like the best casters in the faction, though the Goreshades have place too. Terminus and the 3 Ladies with the floating ball are only for fun-games.

Satyxis Raiders are one of their best units imo, because they can buff themselves to DEF16+immunity to blasts for a turn, making them a pain in the arse to deal with for everyone who isn't cygnar and they also hit pretty hard.

Cryx has amazing Warjacks; They aren't very sturdy, but they all are a pain to hit cuz high DEF (especially with debuffs), are fast and do a lot of damage (especially with debuffs).

I don't share the notion that cryx is weak like most people think they are, they just have a really bad Cygnar matchup.

In fact, I think that Warmachine is currently similar to pokemon: If you pick Khador, you beat Cygnar (because they can out-attrition them with godly ARM and boxes), Cygnar beats cryx (because electro leaps don't care about no DEF skew) and Cryx beats Khador (making their lackluster speed even slower with debuffs).

Honestly, direct damage spells aren't usually that great. They put your caster in more danger and generally don't do any more damage that a gun, while costing more to use.

However, if you want to go that route, Asphyxious 1 and Goreshade 3 can pull off decent spell assassinations or just fling out the occasional spell. recommended army purchases would be the withershadow combine as well as a couple of the arc node light jacks.

Hmm, Baldur1 also has a nice chunk of beast points...

>Coven
>for fun games only

what the h*ck

Can you suggest a list to run or some specific warjacks and solos?