How have other Veeky Forums'ers built a Black Templars army?

I also played templars a long time ago and got back into the game. We lost our codex and are now essentialy regular marines with a few extra rules. The plus side to that is we have access to everything marines have so we can field dev squads and all sorts of other nasty stuff. There's a formation book that gave us our own warlord traits but aside from that nothing else. I'd wait a month or two before buying any books because there's a chance we will get something new. The space marine codex is probably safe to buy tho.

Wait, they didn't get anything in Angels of Death? That's really odd.

A Warlord Traits table. That's it.

No, only warlord traits. At least Crimson Fists can use the IF decurion but Black Templars got absolutely jack shit which kind of defeats the purpose of being folded back into the main space marine codex, at the same time the fact that BT got nothing meant that GW was going to give us something more, and so here we are with the possibility of our own supplement.

Its a good time to be a Templar and for now I'd suggest to wait for the supplement to see what we get, getting Grimaldus and an EC is a good start.

Good army choice, user. Like what everyone else is saying, you may as well wait and see before building a new army, since January is likely to be good to us. That being said, if you're just looking to pick up some models and have a take-all comers force for below 1000 pts, you can't really go wrong with a few tactical squads and Grimaldus or something. Maybe pick up an extra goody thay looks appealing to you, and by the time you have them painted, you'll know what you need going forward.

>they don't allow you to use Sword Brethren

Name one thing Sword Brethren can do that Vanguard Veterans can't. Sword brethren are just a name for the 1st company equivalent.

I still call my templars by their proper ranks for rp purposes.
Chapter master = Marshall
Captain = castellan
Vanguard/sterguard = sword brethren
Etc

Same here, dude.

And I still maintain that BT's regularly operate at number far, far above codex compliance, no matter what BL says.

Ill listen to BL when their authors get their shit together and actively try to make coherent lore

Wrong.

Dunno why they'd cut them down to size when a huge part of their appeal is that they don't give a damn about the Codex.

Honestly, they'd have to. With the way they wage war, BT would have a much higher attrition rate than other chapters I mean, their playstyle boils down to "do what Orks do, but with Space Marines."

I always figured that the extent to which they favour ork-like tactics was always at least a little bit exaggerated. I mean, it even states in their codex that, as often as they do go to battle with the BP+CCW setup, the chapter's primary armament is still the standard bolter.

It's still incredible that any of their neophytes survive training, though.

Wasn't there some old fluff stating that chapters on penitent crusades didn't necessarily have to stick to size limitations? I thought that was their excuse.

>chapters on penitent crusades

Aren't allowed to recruit at all.

I like how when space marines fuck up, their punishment is basically "carry on, but on hard mode". Like, literally the only way to punish them is to prevent recruiting, because they already do some of the worst and most dangerous shit around.

The rules don't exist.

I strongly suspect that Fall of Cadia will see a BT Decurion.

That's like saying there's no rules for Salamanders Firedrakes in 40k. There totally are, they're just representative.

Right you can field them. They just won't be fielded as "Sword Brethren".

How does this stack up for a 1850 point army in BT? This is the first time I built a list, let alone BT's

Been a while since I've played the BT but it can work. The problem with that list is that once the Initiates hop out (or are carved out) of the LRCs anything close combat oriented will chew them up. Cent Devs are great, sternguard are a nice alpha strike - although outfitting them with just meltas is more efficient. You can't split them into two three man teams, and they can't fire at different targets etc. I'm fond of chapter masters with the shield eternal and a t-hammer with artificer armor.

The ven dread seems out of place.

Drop both HQs, get Grimaldus and make some points for 2 more drop pods for the sternguard and dreadnought.

>mfw purging with kin

So drop the HQ's, Grab Grimaldus, and Replace the Ven dread with another drop pod and throw more Initiates/neophytes into the crusader squads?

This look better?

Drop the servitors and add a drop pod for the centurions.

I appreciate the help. Right now the store I play at is currently suffering from an Infestation of Tau, and I have to be able to win against one of the three players. Fuck Tau.

post more of these please

this is . I might be a bit more intoxicated than earlier, so sorry if I come off the wrong way.

you wanna fuck the tau? They're gonna gunline you down, pronto. it's their gimmick, in the sam eway the BT get into close combat. What you want are drop pods. Enough black panted cans dropping down on them with templates can do the trick. Kill them the same way you eat an elephant - bite by bite. Inevitably they'll have a unit out of position, pick on that goober and roll through a flank. You'll have issues with their fuckhuge walkers, but everyone does.

If you -need- LRCs in on the action, then what you mentioned should work. Grimaldus AND his retinue - two or three, if only for FNP - with a unit of initiates and neophytes. The neophytes deploy in front for ablative wounds and whatever special rule we get for taking a loss in enemy shooting - which may apply to overwatch shots, iirc. Been a while since I've played, sorry.

really depends on what breed of tau you see - if they rely on bigass walkers a whole lot, then a small detachment of IG with their annoying psykers tossing misfortune their way can help.

sternguard need a sgt with PP, 3x combi-plas and a plas. 4x combi meltas and a melta. Meltas pop a transport, plasmas do their thing and hope to not roll hot. Ork tested, Ordo Xenos approved.

Initaties - give the sword brother a power weapon, and the squad can take a melta or plas AND a powerfist. Expensive, but I espouse the 'swiss army knife' mentality. Also means the PF can't be picked out in a challenge.

You seem to like the bikes, just be careful with them. I like using the points for more RIP AND TEAR stuff. Hell, a flyer works in a pinch.

I call this Beautiful tactic, the bolter blob.
It does Apply to overwatch shots, which is why I might apply some different tactics involving alot of flyers and bikes. Problem right now is that I am painfully new to the game and I really have no one to show me the ropes.

used to be called the Black Tide (a la Orks' green tide). Only issue is getting there - anything that can lob templates out there will give you issues. 10x initiates, 5x neophytes and an emp's champ in a LRC. Should be around 500 points or so? 160 for the troops, 10 for the sword brother...melta, sword, and fist at 40...265 for the LRC. 50 for the neophytes, gives me 475? Plus the emperor's champ for leadership and fearless. Plonk Grimaldus and his cronies in a razorback for additional support. Hell, you could have a list of two LRCs at 1850. Then you're adding a chapter master or Helbrecht - who's overcosted by about 20 points iirc, as he lacks orbital bombardment. I think.

So you'd have two murder taxis on the way, with HQs maxed out and Troops spoken for. Include the sternguard as a can opener, but don't plan on them making it to turn two - they alpha in and do their job. First blood, etc.

I think a better question is, what models do you have?

For models I have
>15 Neophytes
>40 Initiates
>5 Assaults
>5 Devastators
>10 Vanguard
>10 Sternguard
>3 Centurion Devs
>3 Ass Centurions
>5 Assault Termies
>1 Command Squad
>2 Captain
>Termie Chapter Master
> 2 Chaplains
> Land Speeder
>Ven Dread & Plain Dread
> 2 LRC
> EChamp, Grimaldus, and Helbretch

Oh +6 bikes and a Attack Bike

Im fairly certain their affinity isn't so much for brutal melee as it is for being sword masters/duelists. Very different from a hack and chop army, but close enough that you don't really notice much of a difference.

You can use old rules for units provided they haven't been superseded by new rules.

Ouch, there's a lot of HQ units in there. Also, no rhinos? Makes things a little difficult. I'd get drop pods or rhinos, try out either on your own. Thankfully they're the same points cost. For the context of this list, I'll be making a 'oh shit they're coming list' via teleportation and drop pods. Chapter master sits in the LRC with his retinue, extending the homing beacon from the hull for the ass termies to hone in on. The other blob in back either guards your back line or does the truffle shuffle near enemy lines. Sternguard goes asshole things to the enemy. Cent devs immobilize what they can - rerolling both to hit and wound, don't forget that - immobilizing targets for initiates to crack open.

Thanks for the list, and yeah, I'm gonna wait till my next paycheck or two rolls in until I grab some Drop-pods and Rhinos. Unless I can get a steal on ebay. One of the main reasons for the HQ units is that I really like painting and assembling, and those tend to be the most interesting minis for that.

I would just make the drop pods yourself and buy the rhinos. unless you plan on playing at the shop.

alright man (or woman, it's the fucking internet, the hell do I know). I'd get three pods or two rhinos and a thunderfire kit. Think of things that will either get your guys stuck in faster, or things that will keep the assault running. You'll have issues with close-combat monsters (khorne especially) no matter what.

If you're starting out, post in the WIP threads as they pop up - I'm not gonna namefag etc but they're always nice to follow up with.

I'm drunk enough and tired enough to go to sleep now. Merry christmas and all that shit.

Probably a good idea, and the store is the only place to play at. I have a game planned tomorrow against some Orks, so that should be a good warm-up.

Thanks for the user, it's much appreciated.

who's better, grey knights brotherhood champion or the emperor's champion?

Why did GW fuck the coolest chapter so badly.

Instead we have tons of overdesigned retarded bangles and space yiff shit nobody asked bout or wanted

WHY

Because Black Templars are inferior and unneeded.

hmm, I'm pretty sure this is Heresy.
Guess it's time to start purging.

>bangles and space yiff shit nobody asked bout or wanted
ultramarines, blood angels, dark angels and space wolves are pretty much always going to be the top 4 played chapters

blame 2nd edition

Buy a prospero box (or just cheap plastic mk3 from ebay), get some FW IF templar sets from HH, mix and done

Forgot: chinaman the upgrade kits, IF special units are too expensive, the only FW ones that are "buy the basic THEN the upgrade kit goy :^)"

I think the point is that they then have to run towards enemies armed with projectile weapons, ala Orks, not the "style" or "grace" with which they do so

Always thought the BT should be the 'pod' army - their lore as a spacefaring chapter points to it. I wouldn't go as far as allowing assaults out of pods, but something to combat gunlines would be nice. Something that blocks line of sight for a turn, fucked if I know.

Why GW doesn't allow disordered charges out of pods is beyond me.

Pods are good enough as it is.

>Crimson Fists can use the IF decurion
It says 'Imperial Fists and their successor chapters' user.
BT are IF successor.

As far as fluff is concerned, you're right, but the codex states pretty clearly that the Black Templars are the exception to the rule of successor chapters having access to the chapter tactics of their parent chapter.

>Imperial Fists and their successor chapters

Means all chapters using the Imperial Fists Chapter tactics, Black Templars have their own chapter tactics which means they are unable to use the sternhammer force.

second

He specifically talks about 40k and a specific 40k faction. I'm sure "play X-Wing" is great advice for someone seeking a Black Templars army, idiot.

It's actually pretty close.

They have the exact same statline. Both must issue and accept their challenge.

Differences:

GKBC gets AP 2, master-crafted and S+2 at initiative like the EC, but he must pass Hammerhand to get his +2 S.

GKBC gets an iron halo, while EC gets nothing.

EC gets +1 attack from bolt pistol while GKBC only has a Storm Bolter.

EC gets instant death on a 6.

GKBC gets his AP 2 from Smash, so hypothetically he could get a single S8 attack and ID the EC. And that's where he wins out.

>tldr: GK

I thought the armor of faith gave the EC a 4+ inv?

Because Black Templars getting a codex was an oddity, meanwhile SW were the first codex released and in addition to SM, BA, and DA have had codices since they've been a thing.

Grey knights fag here.
Is it cool if I purge heretics with you guys?

Grey Knights are cool, the rest of the witches get purged.

Exorcists are better

Eddie? Is that you?

>40k isn't a mess
So have they finally toned down the power creep or something? Are eldar no longer obscenely overpowered?

Don't listen to him, 40k's still a mess. It's juat that now the mess takes the form of decurion detachments and formations.

Hopefully BT's get a good one.

I just want a chaplain conclave.

OP here, im wanting to go with a full "theres a heretic burn it" religious fanatic army, which is why i want Grimaldus and his retinune and the Emporers champion
Was thinking of instead of a sword bretheren squad, getting a sisters of battle squad or throwing in some Grey knights in there

Agreed here.

Man, how I miss the Black Templars Codex.

With what GW is pulling off with all the Codexes, maybe BTs will get their own Codex Supplement with all the stuff they had back then + some new stuff.

Also hoping for the Holy Orb of Antioch be some really OP, one use relic weapon.

Getting only a Warlord Table (and not a good one to boot) isn't enough.

That's vanilla Crusades that allow for recruitment above Chapter level.

Penitent Crusades don't allow for this.

The Black Templars crusaded so hard for 10K years that if they add some extra 4K marines, then they'd be the size of the 1K Sons Legion before the whole Prospero thing happened.

In older fluff the GKs were one of the very few psyker-related things BTs would tolerate if not downright accept.

Unlike those pathetic witches in the Librarium, there is never a need for more than one Chaplain to get the job done. Such is the strength of the Emperor's most faithful.

I really wish the BT were lopped in with the Codex: Imperial Agents book. It'd make sense, made sense to me.

Well, they're still Astartes.
In fact, except that they use more chainswords and less bolters, they have vows (which are not that different from Warlord traits anymore) and they don't like Psykers, there's not a lot of differences with a codex chapter.
A supplement makes more sense (more sense than it made for the Iron Hands anyway!)

Would the skyhammer or shadowstrike killteam be good units to have for surgical strikes as Black Templar? The tactics only really benefit crusader squads well, but they do help pad losses for the more expensive assault units.

>>current minis are quite old

This is a good thing. The 4th Edition release of the BTs were among the best miniatures GW has ever put out stylistically, they were just the right amount of overblown and busy for 40k. Everything beyond that became rampant faggotry. The crusaders, sword brethren and helbrecht are timless classics.

Fucking hell, I want to go back. I want to go back to Black Templars, Vostroyans, Medusa V and so on. Hell, I want to go back to before that.

Skyhammer fits more to chapters like Blood Ravens

>more sense than it made for the Iron Hands anyway!

Fucking wat? Iron Hands were always one of the most divergent chapters there are, far more so than it was forced on the Blood Angels to justify a codex.

>Iron Hands are one of the most divergent chapters there are

Explain. I always thought they were just vanilla marines with cybernetics and who field a bunch of armour.

Their organization is completely different, with clan based companies. I ain't a Iron Hands man, but they are pretty different.

Black Templar are my favorite though. I'm excited to see a supplement of some kind for them. I just hope it isn't a let down.

Old lore had each Iron Hand clan be a chapter in terms of organization, they were self-sufficient and had their clan leader participate in a council which acted as the Iron Hands "chapter master", I believe that changed in Medusa V when one of the leaders took over the rest of the clans and became the Iron Hands authority but the council remained and the clans had their independence.

>they don't like Psykers

Got retconed to non-human Psykers.

Kinda logical. Since it's a bad idea if you behave like a dick towards Astropaths who navigate your fleet's ship.

>Kinda logical.
>Religious zealot chapter in an Imperium supported by superstition and dogma
>logical

First mistake witch-lover, Black Templars worshiping psykers and mutants has always been a mistake and should be ignored.

And that's a pity about it.

I'd love if they revised the lore about them and returned them to being chapters in name only instead of a Codex Chapter.

In fact one user had a idea to make each Clan Company Chapter Sized instead of Company Sized since that would be quite logical with a Clan system.

Due to this the High Lords wouldn't, out of fear, allow for creation of IH successor Chapters and every new one would be in fact made of marines from the Chapter that have different ways of thought or simply left because the situation was venomous for them.

And just like in lore, the Clan Companies would go and rival between each other, but when they band together, then they truly RIP AND TEAR.

They don't worship them.

Are you drunk? Where did you even get this info?

It's respect for the whole work they are doing.

>Religious zealot chapter in an Imperium supported by superstition and dogma

Except even the Sister don't dislike Pyskers. They hate witches. Hence why they guard the Black Ships.

Good to know the most zealous chapter of an empire that distrusts mutants and psykers is tolerant enough to respect mutants and psykers, because that certainly is very logical.

Its [CURRENT YEAR] after all, I hope the Templars start including abhumans in their ranks to show how tolerant they are!.