/cofd/&/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>So, if you actually travel into the Shadow, is the scenery... MADE of spirits? Like, say I'm standing in my living room and cast a spell to step across the Gauntlet; would my Shadow-living room be just a floor spirit, and a couch spirit, and TV spirit, etc.? Is there actual, "physical" terrain in the Shadow? Or if I stepped outside would I be walking on a ground spirit or a grass spirit or something?

Yes. And no.
As I said, most "prop" spirits are dormant. Most trees you see are just trees. They ARE spirits, but they sleep.
The living room, couch, floor et cetera spirits are probably just "organs" in the big house spirit. Which may or may not be aware.

The ground is, probably, made from Gaia, the earth herself. Who is thankfully dormant.

As to the second half of your post...

In a Florist's shop, you'd get spirits of flowers, of course. Of love and lust. Probably a smidgeon of greed. Beauty, too, of course.

On this side of the Gauntlet, there wouldn't be that many spirits. Only the bravest, dumbest, or most desperate ones.

An abundance of spirits in the material indicates that the area isn't watched by Werewolves, or other groups of individuals who want to keep their influence to a minimum. (Like most Spirit-mages.)

The Shadow is a spooky reflection of the world. In effect the landscape and scenery is "the world's" spirit. It's then populated by other spirits like our world is populated by stuff. And occasionally some terrified jackass who walked down the wrong alley and ended up their accidentally.

>Another hypothetical.
Spirits in Twilight are on THIS side of the Gauntlet, so he could have seen them.

If the florist is successful, he might have seen bees with watering cans instead of stingers (since they don't have to fight for essence), if it's a front for a brothel, then the cashier might have tentacles around his throat from a spirit of lust that's evolved by now feeding on his guilt at how his boss keeps the whores in line.

Things give off 1 essence/day just by existing, which is enough for a spirit not being threatened to survive on, so there might be random spirits all over the place just tagging along to people/things and hiding from the Border Police (werewolves). But older, ore powerful spirits act to create ore essence that resonates with them, so if he cast Exorcist's Eye at the florist and saw an eyeball with wings, it might be a story hook because that's a spirit of voyeurism but because it appeared to be crying petals that means someone is magically spying on the shop and that spirit has adapted to feed on that essence resonance.

>Things give off 1 essence/day just by existing, which is enough for a spirit not being threatened to survive on

I'm pretty sure they changed that.
Now it's a Power + Finesse - Gauntlet (if on the Shadow Side) roll, and the spirit gets Essence equal to the amount of successes.
They can do this roll once per day.

I think the other user is referring to natural essence bleed.

I wasn't, I made a mistake

Thanks guys. Appreciate the responses. This is definitely a lot of help.

Remember rank 0 to 2 spirits are more like objects or animals than sapient beings. Just in case your party is worried about walking over the grass spirit in his yard.

There is still a benefit for 'honoring' the low rank spirits though.

Spirit is a super-powerful arcana once you get the hang of it.

No problem. I just love contributing to some actual discussion here.

If you have more questions, just ask.

Speaking of this, I guess: do low-ranking spirits of objects actually DO stuff? Like, if you step into the Shadow, you might find a dog spirit running around doing dog things—but what about a doghouse spirit? Does it just sit there? Can it get up and move around? Will it talk to you?

Rank 1 spirits are mostly passive, they seek essence sources and cling to them as long as they can. Rank 2 spirits are more sapient, they can think and act on those thoughts.

A Rank 2 doghouse spirit might go around wounding dogs so they stay in their houses instead of going for walkies, or it might instill rage in cats so their owners trade them for dogs and need to get a doghouse which it can then claim.

They mentioned Earplay, a license holder. They seem to pretty much pretend license holder OPP doesn't exist even though it produces multiple WoD lines.

Rank 1 and to a lesser extant 2 do stuff but not beyond their nature or their territory of resonance.

So your dog spirit is probably a Rank 1 that wanders around following the paths used by dogs in the material world.

The doghouse that he lives in is a sleeping spirit mote of rank 0. It's little more than an object or food for higher spirits. Now if something influential happens to that doghouse in the material realm (Maybe the dog that lives there rescues a baby) it can create a resonant condition like heroism that can awaken the spirit of the doghouse.

I wouldn't necessarily call rank 2s sapient. They definitely have more agency than rank 1s. It's like comparing a fox to a lobster. The fox is certainly more clever but it's not really a rational being like a person.

Rank 3 is supposed to be a powerful spirit, planning and schemeing and controllling lesser spirits.

Rank 1 is the equivalent to an animal. Rank 2 are people, Rank 3 are supernaturals.

sendspace.com/file/ix0730
(reposting from least thread, thank you user)

Jagged and saw-toothed weapons are generally 9 again, yes?

So far, anyone one we have that on was either actively trying to kill us or part of a mindless horde of murder constructs. I'd say they got off easy getting Quarantined for a few minutes compared to killed off.

Ok. Who was behind the statting of the swords in Hurt Locker?

I really hope signs of sorcery comes out soon. People in my game have read the preview and are already trying to craft magic suits of armor.

Define "soon."

If you mean real world "soon," don't hold you breath.

If you mean "soon" for OPP/WW, such as by GenCon 2017, that remains a slight possibility.

Dave needs to complete "development, " then it still needs art, layout, editing and approval.

I'm honestly not willing to hope it'll be out in 2017.

>'m honestly not willing to hope it'll be out in 2017.

All we have is hope.

Keep hope alive!

#whereisthebookdaveb

Time is an illusion and the clock is a man made invention

Time isn't an illusion, it's a social construct

Unlike gender, which is a bioogical fact

I'm drowning in so much "temporal privilege."

Get out of here, Unknown Armies.

Merlin who lives time bent is not impressed

...

Opinion on cancer cells in HtV? Any way to make them work? Better to avoid them like the plague?

>Does EVERYTHING (barring people, obviously) have a spirit?
yes
>And what about spirits of intangible things—emotions, events, etc.—how common are they?
as common as the intangible things
>Are they just hanging around everywhere?
if they don't keep getting essence they get ate or go dormant and get ate
>What do they look like?
could look like anything
>Do most spirits (whether of objects or concepts) usually stay on their side of the Gauntlet, or would you see a bunch of them just by glancing into Twilight?
most stay spiritside
>If not, which spirits DO end up in Twilight?
powerfulspirits who want more
>If there's a book that does a good job answering these questions, I'd be happy just to be pointed in the right direction. But I welcome any discussion about this stuff, too.
werewolf 2e core
book of spirits
most werewolf books
predators has lots of spirits

>So, if you actually travel into the Shadow, is the scenery... MADE of spirits? Like, say I'm standing in my living room and cast a spell to step across the Gauntlet; would my Shadow-living room be just a floor spirit, and a couch spirit, and TV spirit, etc.?
yes, but dormant
> Is there actual, "physical" terrain in the Shadow? Or if I stepped outside would I be walking on a ground spirit or a grass spirit or something?
ground spirit mostly looks like gruond
>The Thyrsus player was hanging out in a florist's shop, and just on a whim cast Exorcist's Eye, which lets you perceive spirits "in the physical world" (slumbering in objects, hanging out in Twilight, or possessing people). I was kind of caught off guard. What would you have described them seeing in a situation like this? What kind of non-object spirits would be hanging around a flower shop? What would THEY look like? And would any of them even be visible to a spell that didn't directly peer across the Gauntlet, or would he just see the slumbering spirits of the objects?
business spirit
money
drug spirit from when worker takes a pot break
they wouldn't be in physical world though most would just be in shadow

To the user who shares the Tome of Secrets pdf in the last thread, thank you very much!

Yeah I'm considering of going to the Berlin meetup (it's not just LARP, it's basically a convention + LARP if you want to pay extra) but unfortunately I don't have that many friends who would be interested and out of those who do, none of them know if they can make it in May since it's quite far away. The price of admission is also a factor - 150 eur for the entrance ticket, not counting LARPs

Not a terrible idea, but it might be better to replicate powers using Dread Powers or the Endowment style if you can.

They can and do "work" for how long thou is up to the fate of drama.

Like everything cod, Hunter cells are on a case by case basics. Cancer cells have extra baggage that a clean cell wouldn't. There's really no easy way to tell if the cancer cell is compromised in their vigil or not. And even clean cells can fight each other or lose their collective shit.

The Malleus Maleficarum has a ghoul behind the scenes. that had to have started some how.

Ex:
If a cell is convinced that a vampire is genuinely trying to help and pretty much still in their right minds (buffy spike angel) They might give themselves as blood dolls to gain a heavy hitter in harder fights. curbing the causality rate and success rate of their operations, but at What cost? and How long can the group trust their dark guardian? And how long till the asset slips its emotional bonds and just stops giving a shit anymore become just another monster with dirt on the cell?

Helsing Organization

tldr: yes but expect extra suspension and or hostility from folks in the know

reminder that Forgotten is best threshold

> Not a terrible idea, but it might be better to replicate powers using Dread Powers or the Endowment style if you can.

It's not that we have a PC who is a monster, it's that our members have started taking up with monsters "allies" and this is creating some problems. As in, other hunter cells attacking us. I'm starting to wonder if it's a worthwhile tradeoff. On the one hand we now have two monsters that have been decently reliable allies, at least for now, one of them a werewolf. On the other hand, we have to fight other humans a lot more since other hunter cells have started gunning for us.

Also, the one hunter cell that we're still on friendly terms with now refers to us as the humper cell, and that's annoying as fuck. It was one time, damn it! And no actual sex occurred!

> And even clean cells can fight each other or lose their collective shit.
I guess if cell vs cell warfare is going to happen even if we stay clean, we may as well reap the benefits of having monster allies? Or is that really awful thinking?

I'm about to DM vampire the masquerade with newbie players, what's a good introduction scenario for them (as Camarilla) ?

This post lulz. Sounds like your St is doing it right. story time humper? No matter what you do you'll have conflict. Because everyone has a different ideals to the hunt, and different lines they'll cross. And different needs and wants. To some you'll be cooperators against them. and other just freaks. Choosing your fights will be important. And this is why hunters can be just as secretive as the monsters they hunt

>Or is that really awful thinking?
Yes not because it's immoral, but because it's sloppy. By all means pit monster against monster, thats just being tactical. remember to be mindful of your own vulnerabilities.

There's a few scenarios you could use:

- all are neonates who have just been released by their sires and now need to prove themselves as capable members of society. So the Prince gives them some sort of simple task. I went with people disappearing because this is a very easy to understand story and finding clues, talking to people etc shows newbies how the game works.

- they all wake up in some sort of small enclosed area and last thing they remember is the Embrace. They might not know they're vampires and this works best for a one-shot as they try to figure out what's going on and what they are

That's stuff off the top of my head, there's probably other easy hooks as well. As long as you don't dump a bunch of vampire politics on them and keep it nice and simple, the players will enjoy the game. Are they newbies to tabletop or vampire only?

>Someone wanna help me understand the "Spirit World"?
>I've read the rules in Mage, so I understand how it all works mechanically. But from a flavor perspective, I'm not sure how to run it. How to describe it.
Read the first edition corebook for werewolf, especially the appendix on the spirit world. It's the single best treatise on the Shadow/Hisil ever put out for nWoD.

Daily reminder that these splats are not allowed in my stories for being shit and overpowered
>Sin eaters
>Beasts
>Primordials

Daily reminder that nobody cares about your games.

I see you've removed Mummies from the list, though.

Have you considered just playing Apocalypse? Werewolves are top tier solo fighters there.

Fuck you my stories and characters are top tier
>playing owod

>Fuck you my stories and characters are top tier
That doesn't mean anyone else cares.

There's a reason "let me tell you about my character" is a meme, and a negative one.

>>Beasts
>>Primordial

Beasts are so shit they needed to be listed twice.

> story time humper
Getting called that would be less annoying if one of us had actually gotten laid.

The second of our two main monster "allies" is a changeling woman who, as changelings are want to be, is ten kinds of crazy. We've be working with her mainly because her contracts are useful, but she has pretty blatantly been working to seduce one of the members of the cell. Eventually it got to the point where one night she called him up, said she had woken up in the middle of the night from awful nightmares and asked him to come over, calling in a favor we owed her from when she last helped us. Like a chump, he did just that without telling the rest of the cell. Didn't even have sex, she just used him as her own personal body pillow.

Afterward, he told the rest of the cell what had happened, and one of them ended up blabbing to the other cell. Somewhere along the line the fact that they didn't actually have sex got left out, so now the other cell thinks we've got members who are literally sleeping with monsters.

Why does Hurt Locker omit talking about Beasts in the 'Power Differentials' section?

Developed and written before that shitstain became a thing? Or they couldn't cut wordcount from the ableism section maybe.

Because those writers didn't support Beast.

top quality user

Changeling word play. Only Two mistakes there. Should have kept his mouth shut. Should have claimed it was undercover work, that didn't pan out. it's a classic femme fatale situation. Just a little gender bent. That how one of our hunters took down a sentimental vampire. We found out he likes red heads so we dyed the member's hair, placed a radio tracker in her purse. Followed back to the lair. Bang bomb done.

I'ld love to hear more mate. sounds like a rocken campaign

Sin Eaters and Beasts are the absolute shittiest splats ever created.

How do you guys create a feeling of horror and paranoia without making the game too 'edgy'.

I'm afraid my game is going to turn into 'the walking dead' I'll just be introducing characters and scenarios so people die horribly and it's just going to get tedious.

Ideally I want an atmosphere like 'the thing' or 'aliens'.

What actually is a sin-eater? I know they're sort of like werewolves half man half ghost. But like what are their powers like? They could transform into wooly mammoths at night for all I know.

Beast wasn't finished when the book went into production.

They can make anyone or anything commit suicide by just thinking about it.

> Only Two mistakes there. Should have kept his mouth shut. Should have claimed it was undercover work, that didn't pan out.

I'd argue that his mistake was going to a changeling's place in the dead of night, alone, without telling anyone. We certainly chewed him out for that, both IC and OOC. Hell, the changeling herself pointed out that he was taking an insane risk while she was cuddling him.

His response IC to us was to accuse another member of the cell of shagging the aforementioned werewolf, even though OOC the player knew that didn't happen. That also ended up getting blabbed to the other cell.

They probably think we're the most bumbling idiots in town. But at least they're content to laugh at us rather than trying to kill us like the other hunters in the city, so I guess that's something.

> tfw no changeling waifu who just wants to cuddle
Why even live.

Monsters are for killing, not cuddling.

What is the use of Beast?
How does one use them to crossover the various splats?

Generally spooky ghost stuff.
They can see/talk to ghosts, move stuff around like in those poltergeist movies.

Here's a hint.
You don't.

When introduced to other splats, all Beast (the book, not specific character) does is go "dohohoho, you silly Xs, you REALLY think your cosmology is the right one? Oh my how rich, I bet you don't even know about the NIGHT MOTHER, do you? Don't worry, I'll tell you aaaaaall about how wrong you are as I inexplicably boost your powers with my own abilities."

Well you don't really have to follow the book to the letter when it comes to lore.

Yes, but the question was "What is the use of Beast [in crossovers]?"

And Beast, as it is, is fucking terrible for crossovers. If you're going to have to rewrite the crossover bits yourself anyway, then it's not correct to say that Beast is useful for that.

When it comes to a crossover however, if you're not doing it FOR the Lore, then what's the fucking point?

I used beasts as a spooky something that even vampires hate/fear because they don't understand them or their powers. Most people have an idea of the weaknesses of a werewolf or fae. When you introduce something only called 'Beasts' who seem to be in soul the very thing that makes vampires monsters, they're pretty lost on what to do.

Beast does suck though, why the fuck would they be buddy buddy with any splat that isn't a sin-eater or changeling is beyond me.

>because they don't understand them or their powers
... There are MUCH better reasons to hate and fear beasts than a lack of understanding, which sounds sympathetic.

I will be running my first Requiem game. Does this plot sounds interesting?

The players are gonna be in New england on boston, which is a city dominated by the invictus as the first state, the Lancea Sanctum and a alliance with the Carthian all because outside of the city there warring gangs of "Brides of Dracula" (from dance macabre) whom pop up some 50 years ago and sudenly got a constant influx of members.

The Brides secretly were a failed social experiment of the carthians (that function as fascist regime) that got out of control and were a minor threath until they raid a Wyrm nest and learned the devotion to mass embrace.

So the carthians dont want the rest to know they Brides were their fault, the ordo Dracul dont want the rest to know that their high numbers are their faul, the Lancea Sactum keeps his grip on the city because of the Crusade mentality and the invictus are just trying to keep the city from falling not knowing exactly why.

You smell the scent of pine and the brush of leafs against the wind as self claimed the wood elf pets and strokes your chest "You know hunter kun, this was really the stupidist romantic gesture you'd only see on TV soap operas" You feel the two twig arms wrap around your body as this nymph continues "I could whick you away and no on would ever find the body." The demised figure tucks her head into your shoulder and you feel dampness as it crys oh so sweetly into your flannel shirt "Just stay like this ok?"

All the damsel in distress bait

Any reason you recommend 1e over 2e?

Probably because Changelings are boring to interact with.

>The Brides secretly were a failed social experiment of the carthians (that function as fascist regime)
Why?
I've already talked about my views on using the Carthians as fascists, but even then, why the Brides? They're more like something out of Shadowrun: Dragonfall. Failed anarchism where instead of the sense of unity that the Kreuzbaser has, they're a disjointed rabble where strength is power, but there's no sense of organization. At least, that's my understanding of the Brides. I know them more from Count Fucking Dracula than from Danse Macabre. He seemed like a thug playing at being erudite.

Or, if you meant the Carthians as fascist regime, again, why? And also how, if they don't have the power? Actually, why are the Lance allied with the Carthians? Those Covenants have massive bad history together.

See, this is why you need to maintain a strict monster-killing policy. Otherwise, you open the door for idiots trying to romance the monsters.

Until you're in deep, at which point it's pretty fucking great.

I mean, until you can see past the Mask they're just highly insular, paranoid, mentally deranged weirdos.

>I've already talked about my views on using the Carthians as fascists

I dont know you and you havent in this thread so i dont know your views on fascist Carthians. I just think that running the Carthians as masquerade anarchs is something i wanna avoid.

As to why the brides, is because they arent organized but they are just too many of them.

>Or, if you meant the Carthians as fascist regime, again, why?

Yes, sorry i mean the carthians in the city are fascist regime. They are a cult of personality lead by a gangrel, he is kind of a warlord which has help him gather a following of carthians and they are ally with the local Lancea because they share not only the common enemy but both have a "zealot" mentanlity regarding the thread (though in the case of the carthians is because they want to kill them before the secret spills out).

There's a beast inside you. It wants you to destroy, feed, cause fear. It's not afraid of causing death and wants only to drown in the blood of innocents and enemies alike. It burns with need at all times, and when you find someone who won't be missed to soothe the beast, you find yourself suddenly repelled. The area goes dark, twisting into a pale reflection of another realm as what you assumed was a human turns to you. They know what you are, all those terms exclusive to your undead kind. They're a breach of masquerade, and yet something invisible is wrapped around your throat that comes from this stranger.

You don't what this thing is or why it knows of you. It tries to explain that it feeds on fear and maiming, making people bleed and lapping it up the same as you. It'll share the meals if you play nice. It'll even let you bunk in it's twisted realm of meat and decay. You choke out an okay, just to get it to let go of you, but it knows you're insincere. It lets you run away.

Every night since you've dreamt of meat, decay, drowning in blood. The beast incarnate you once saw preys on your dreams. You begged an Alucinor to walk into your dreams and save you, but they were slain to never wake again. More vampires, almost exclusively neonates, have encountered the beast. Those who join it disappear forever. Attempts to kill it have failed miserably.

Another beast has been sighted in the area, and you can only hope the Ordo can capture or kill the thing before it grows strong like the first one did. You also hope it doesn't have friends.

Sorry for the fiction drop. Beasts only make good antagonists for some reason. It's the IC reason the vampires fear the beasts in my setting. They barely encounter them and actual encounters have gone badly every single time.

They ever manage to at least wound a Beast?

They're no "masquerading as the Anarchs", they're occupying the same niche, same as the Invictus occupies the same niche as the Camarilla.

The Carthians aren't fascist. They're as far from fascist as you can get. And using the anarchist communist syndicalist group as fascist just seems incredibly stupid to me, especially considering there's already a vampire fascist organization. Running the Carthians as fascist just seems incredibly uninspired to me, especially when there are several things on the Left that you can draw from. I mean for fucks sake one of the most notable examples of a functioning anarchist system is a group of men sailing around using their democratic power to decide to assault and plunder other ships, steal the goods, fence them, and get drunk and go whoring. Running the Carthians as landlubber pirates is more interesting than "let's ignore all their history and baggage and just make them Nazis".

What is this?

Not to mention the fact that the Carthians are prime ground for "you don't think and act the right way so taste the sun" thought policing. That one's right there in the book for you.

She got a breast reduction

>In front of a burning building
>Not Frenzying

>anarchist communist syndicalist
I don't think you can be all those at once

They're Ordo Dracul engaging in a false flag to make the Invictus wipe out the Carthians.

I'm going to admit I've always liked the idea of the Autumn Court and a whole bunch of Beasts joining forces.

Are there any cool Mage Legacies that focus on the weak-point of one of the paths? Say, an Acanthus legacy dedicated to Forces, or a Mastigos legacy dedicated to Matter?

Ok maybe, i am explaining myself incorrectly regarding the fascist bent of carthians in the city i am planning. Their leader, was elected because it was an emergency and they needed a strong leader, he then proceed to take control of the covenant in the name of solving said emergency (he created). The conflict with the invictus comes from then pushing for a more violent and direct approach while the invictus pushes for slower one.

The leader will obviously sell the party line of being one of the people, and that every kindred matters and what he does he does in the name of solving the inminent crisis. But also that he, young as he is, can lead perfectly and thus the system of the "elder rule" is obsolete. So the ideological separation between Carthians and invictus in my city comes more from "how do we choose leaders?"

Thats what i mean by fascist.

Tome of secrets

Yeah, but the Ordo lost most of their mortal experiments and blood dolls after. The beasts are hit-and-run terrorizers for the most part. When your enemies can only attack at night and most of their havens are dimly lit, it's very easy to impose more lair traits and then open a pathway to drag their food and playthings through. Or do the same to merge with their horror and fight vampires on much more equal terms.

If we had 2e for changeling I'd probably be running that crossover since my players are good about keeping power balance in unbalanced situations. Fear feasters realm-hopping and trying to keep the cops off of their asses.