Warhammer Fantasy General

Well, they are doing Made To Order.
So far its only been 40k and the six breasted Daemonettes, but Fantasy has to be eventually.

Somebody remembers the Dogs of War army book and the regiments of renown that came after it?

Gorbad Ironclaw could kick his arse and use his teef for loose change.

>Nuttin Archaon and leaving him alive
>Signs that GW is going towards capeshit bollocks

pretty sure that's warhammer 40k lore, where Slaanesh steals eldars (space elves) souls. It could be a thing in fantasy though, I haven't read up on it in a while

Yes

Real best character when?

...

Slaanesh definitely tries to gobble elf souls in Fantasy too, I'm just not sure what it does with them.

>tfw no tsundere dark elf waifu you nurse back from her crippling drug addiction

>Bugman
>better than pic related

Humiliated Archaon the Nuthin Personnel

His son fulfilled his Oath, he's not a Slayer anymore.

>battle tiara

His son died, doing so, and he immediately took a new slayer oath.

Skaven still the best

>greatest numbers
>best technology by far
>assassins that cut through plot armor
>everywhere in the world
>still buttslaves to archgayon

Skaven eternally cucked

>this low-effort trolling

In Storm of Chaos?

>Skaven
>best
>mfw

Which is the best Karak and why is it Karak Norn?

A Karak Kadrin is fine too.

Why would "Ill met in Bögenhafen" suggest that it is for characters halfway through their first career, when starting characters start at the end of their first career? Why not just say starting characters?

Their first career isn't finished as they haven't worked through all the Wounds and stat upgrades.
Anything other then having filled that out is less then finished.

What's a good source for the lore of Nehekhara? The stuff in WFRP is very sparse.

The bagash books, I guess.

He said Good

Lure of the Liche Lord
Tomb Kings book
Liber Necris

How dumb are Ogres actually supposed to be? I asked a few weeks ago whether an Ogre could be employed as a valet (ostensibly so the nobleman could ever have a formidable bodyguard who could join him on social occasions, but the ogre would take his job seriously). The consensus seemed to be that ogres are too dumb to pick out clothing or understand social niceties.

But then there's this quote from the Old World Bestiary on Rat Ogres.

“They’s not Ogres, not Ogres at all. Smell different. Tastes different too. Bad. Like all Skaven things, they tastes o’ rat. Had more’n one belly full o’ rat in me life enuff to knows. Oi, but they’s strong. Strong enough to sort one of us proper. Maybes how they got dat name? Thing is, tho, they’s stupid. I means real stupid, dumber than a Troll even. Keep dat in mind, maybe you can beat ‘em. Don’t run from ‘em, tho. They’s real quick on their feets.”

– Kroag, ogre Mercenary

This displays greater knowledge of the situation than most humans of the empire, memory of past engagements... I dunno. Makes them seem smarter than the drooling idiots I was made to believe.

Knowing things doesn't mean you're intelligent. Even if you're literally retarded, you will know all that shit if you had enough contact with skaven. You can be a fucking genious and never leave your city, so you would never know that skavens even exist. And you can be a retarded ogre mercenary who travelled quite a lot and know stuff about them.

>mfw looking at the preview of the 9th age full rulebook with all the sweet illustrations

TK army books, and the one where Gotrek and Felix hang out with Khalida and kill vampires.

Retards generally cannot retain information like that.

guys keep it to one thread please
>
:^)

Ogres are pretty dim, but have a range of intelligence. Ogre Kingdoms ones are the dumbest of their race, basically less lazy Orcs.

The smartest and most clever are Maneaters, who absorb the culture they are placed in.

Ostland also has a population of Ogre citizens, so they are at least intelligent enough to be low class Imperial.

One of the book series about a Bret nobleman has a woman and her Ogre bodyguard/father figure. He was fairly intelligent.

YES I crave more T9A.
OK are next?

Man, dwarfs can be annoying.
They fucking aren't capable of crossing a room without getting offended.

The idea of a noblewoman growing up in the stewardship of her ogre caretaker and steadily realizing he's too dumb to do much but he did the best he could is kinda sad.

THA'S GOIN' IN THA' DAMMAZ KRON!

SNORRI, GO GET OKRI AN' TELL 'IM TA KILL AN UMGI SO I CAN STRIKE THIS OUT 'SOON AS I FINISH WRITIN' IT!

>le wacky dwarf

She got along fine, and had a Sabretusk for a childhood pet.

Better than being the son of an Elector Count.

I found it kinda humorous.

>Wacky

HOW DARE YE, MY MOTHAH' WERE A SAINT!

Im p excited for the fluff book. I wanted to write a short story for the beast herds

Ogres to me never really looked and sounded all that dumber than humans, not to a too significant degree at least, more than to a natural characteristic I'd consider their minds a result of other influences: ogres live in smaller communities, meaning the social interactions and passage of knowledge will be minor and less formalised; ogres value strength more than reason because a strong ogre can and will get away with it, meaning they are not trained nor willful to reason when they can show their true value.

ogres lack mental training, instruction and the social context to develop these things, but otherwise they don't seem to lack the potential.
they are comparable with prehistoric humans for me.

Not to forget that in form Ogres are perfect, but the Old Ones never giften them a culture or environment.

They are the most "natural" race since they were never uplifted, only birthed from whatever base creature they share with Halflings.

Its possible the Giant culture or Cathay culture was the prototype for them.

>Ogres are perfect
were

do you think they didn't go through a serious bottleneck when the great maw struck?

Still perfect in form, its just their culture that is fucked.

But Maneaters are the hope Ogres can find their way.

Too bad GW made them the bland underlings of greenskins in AoS.

Is two cannons and an organ gun plus a unit of crossbows and a unit of fiflemen too much Dwarf dakka? I don't want to be cheesy.

Would adding Slayers help?

Anyone feel free to chime in on this for me.
I played in 2008-2010 7th edition. Didn't have that much of a scene in my town, had one or two people to play against.
Loved everything about the game
Where did it all go wrong?
Was the game in bad shape at this point?
I've recently read about this person, "Matt Ward" was his demons codex the turning point for fantasy?
Did this start a power creep arms race that continued into 8th edition and is fully realized with AOS?
If I wanted to get a local game group going, would banning everything after and including the daemon codex work well?
What other things would need to be addressed?
Is 8th really as bad and unbalanced as I've gathered?
I'm quite sure I'll never do any "end times" material

>Where did it all go wrong?
A little bit at a time but mostly the company about selling lore to use as the basis for your own canon and Your Dudes, became the company of selling you models and a specific hard cankn story.

Painting guides disappeared from the army books, characters were specific instead of beinh suggestions and templates, the community was replaced by marketing. Instead of the personal models and lore of Gav Thorpe and a guy who won at Games Day, you just had the Eavy Metal paintjob and the specific main characters of the army.

7e started it by pushing their narrative over yours.
>Was the game in bad shape at this point?
No, but the bad seeds were sprouting. Fantasy got less attention and GW focused on 40k.

>I've recently read about this person, "Matt Ward" was his demons codex the turning point for fantasy?
No. Ward is shit at writing rules and his 40k lore REALLY sucked, but the crunch wasn't a major problem here. Hate for Ward is mostly for 40k people. That being said, his Daemon ARMY BOOK (Codex is only in 40k) did suck. It just wasn't a huge problem.

>Did this start a power creep arms race that continued into 8th edition and is fully realized with AOS?
Power Creep was another problem in 40k and at the start of 7e. Before that, players were encouraged to roleplay and make up special rules. 7e tried to do a competitive format with scenarios as superfluous. AoS tried to bring back scenarios, but did it very poorly.
>If I wanted to get a local game group going, would banning everything after and including the daemon codex work well?
Every edition has faults. 7e Daemons sucked, and cannon sniping was bad. 8e Banner Lions were miserable too.
Either use T9A rules or just houserule until balanced.

>Is 8th really as bad and unbalanced as I've gathered?
There were problems, but it was mostly because they changed the core rules in a way that made many army options inferior or useless. This being after comp became more important than narrative, it was a huge problem. Some armies didn't even get an update at all, leaving them entirely reliant on rules nerfed into the ground.

Oh, and we were divided on the huge and multibuild kits. I like some, oldest players hate them all.

>I'm quite sure I'll never do any "end times" material
Most of us cherry pick what we like from it. Do what GW originally did, build your own Warhammer alternate universe based on a presented example.

One more thing; I really hate to say it, but they are doing good things in AoS. The competitive aspect is being put bsck to Your Dudes, community outreach, free painting guides on Youtube...its all good.

But the AoS lore is SUCH garbage, the models forit are so much overdesigned shit, and End Times was such a series of slaps to the face and kicks to the nethers that it doesn't fucking matter.

If tomorrow they made it so you could browse the site in Fantasy groupings of models and not the silly AoS renames and groupings, slapped a sticker on every box saying "Compatible with Warhammer Fantasy", put out a Facebook post that says "THE WARHAMMER WORLD WAS DESTROYED IN ONE UNIVERSE, BUT THE FIGHT GOES ON IN OTHERS!", gave an option at checkout to get either round or square bases, and gave us a sculpt of a model from classic artwork like Sisters Of Battle just got with the Blanche character it would bring some of us back. They wouldn't even have to bring back old models, just sell us what isn't squatted yet.

But never AoS.

>Where did it all go wrong?
7th to 8th, End Times was the final fuck you to everything

>Was the game in bad shape at this point?
Yes, very hard to get into due to price constrains, niche hobby and some unbalanced rules, also, Fantasy was pretty much ignored by GW over SPACE MARINES

>Is 8th really as bad and unbalanced as I've gathered?
Not THAT bad, but some things were in dire need of a FAQ or a new edition (any centerpiece model being dead weight in the game, which made up most of the new releases, and for some totally unrelated reason, were not selling; or having a wizard below level 4 being a sure way to lose a game)

go for the sensible choice, pick up 9th Age rulesets and play with those (consider using Warhammer's schools of magic instead of 9th Age tho), if you want a setting, pick up from 8th edition and advance the setting however you like the most

Every model has a 9th Age counterpart and it's very well balanced, even if the fun rules and gimmicks suffered from it

It is only too much Dakka if your Lord is not a Dwarf in Napoleonic attire wearing a monocle and a tricorn. However, if he IS... then there is not enough cannon dakka in all the Dwarf holds in all the world.

Are there half-ogres? Can Ogres intermix with humans?

The new Hearthstone expansion, Gadgetzan, introduces a mafia/gang led by a two-headed, mutant Ogre. I don't wanna take it entirely, but an Ogre with muttonchops and a bowler hat, chomping on a cigar, leading a branch of the Thieves' Guild in an Empire city would be a fun character in a WFRP Campaign.

Cool that all makes sense. I think I'm just going to start collecting whatever books and models I can get cheap. I have a pretty big ogre kingdom force and the army book for 7th. Trying to get a pocket rule book, FLGS still has a few skill pass boxes so I think I'm going to try picking one up. I'll print off the 9th age book, I've heard mixed reviews about it. GW has done some decent things recently and I don't HATE the rules of age, just the lore and that it's canonically related to the old world

Because Karak Norn was founded by a Queen?

Depends on the points limit. For a 2k point game, I'd say easy up a little on the dakka if it's a friendly game. If it's a competitive game, all is fair.

Can't seem to locate the AOS Generals Compendium--anyone have a link?

Suppose its T9A where cannon-sniping isn't a thing.

Also, my General is the Dwarf female riding a bear from Reaper while her Thane is this guy.

Nothing says they can't, but there's no example of it.

But yeah, an Ostland-born Ogre could probably pull that off. He'd need a loyal sidekick or two to be clever for him in ways such as paperwork or complex math, but it would work. But a good mob boss needs some loyal sidekicks anyway.

T9A removed the customization a bit in favor of balance, especially for Skaven, but does have great internal (within the same army book so no option sucks) and external balance (against other armies). Even brought back old themes and models GW cut or never implemented.

But Ogres have never really suffered under rules anyway.

Current edition changed the rules. Standard Warhammer has always been 2000-2500 points, current T9A is 4500-5000. Model points raised to compensate, its to give them more numbers to work with when adjusting for point costs.

No, because it has canonically the best brewers that have ever existed.

Also, Karaz-a-Karak was founded by a queen too.

monolithmodels.com/dark-forest.htm

Naked female Slayers, middle finger Dwarfs, Dwarf in barrel, and Night Goblins baring their asses. Also naked vampires in their coffins including Elf and Dwarf.

Good range.

Warning: lewd.

monolithmodels.com/kiss-carmilla.htm

4500 T9A, so about 2.5k equivalent.

>Slaanesh definitely tries to gobble elf souls in Fantasy too
That was only introduced in 8th by Matty Ward, to pull Fantasy more in line with 40k.

The only purpose of which was so that Dragontaur Malekith, blind Tyrion, and Teclis could kidnap Slaanesh and torture him like Hostel until he vomitted Elves up so they could be called Aelves instead of Elves and so that Archaon could become canonically the embodiment of lust and pride.

I understand why, in a lore sense, Bretonnians wouldn't hire mercenaries - though you could probably twist some scenarios where they could or would.

But why, in a crunch sense, was this a thing? It would've made Bretonnians a lot more viable as a fighting force even after GW stopped paying much attention to them.

Because anyone could use Dogs of War. Then DoW were squatted, and Brets had nothing.

Culturally, Brets are Arthurian knights. Look up the stories of the lesser knights, they aren't always straight and narrow but usually pay for it.

Brets not hiring mercs or using cannons is like Dwarfs trusting Elves basically.

You have to remember that Orges have no written records, and barely have any knowledge of their own history.

If you really look at that quote, all the ogre is really commenting on is things related to fighting, and how the rat ogre tasted. He knows more about rat ogres than most Imperials, but he's also more likely to survive a fight with one than most humans, not because he went out of his way to study them.

It's not even necessarily that an ogre is stupid, really. They could probably learn social niceties, how to pick clothes, and all that jazz, but theoretically so could an Orc, and they both have the same problem - they don't care about that stuff at all.

And if you look at 40k's ogyrns...while they're not truly the same, and ogryns seem much duller, there are some specific examples of ogyrn intelligence or lack thereof - Nork Deddog is a 'genius,' but can only count to four and can write only the first letter of his name. And I could easily see this holding true for most ogres - they're not literate and don't care for numbers.

, A good logical reason is simply that Bretonnians don't really have a very developed economy compared to their neighbors, being still completely attached to the manorial fief system for most of the wealth of their kingdom.
For comparison, the Empire, Tilea, and Marienburg all have economies akin to 16th or even 17th century Europe.

Bretonnia is something like the 12th or 13th century, more or less.

Ogres are smarter than Ogryn, most can do math. Paymasters, Maneaters and such.

They are ignorant and most are stupid, but they can be taught.

Orcs are incapable of learning. Black Orcs are born knowing what they know.

t.

Dawi Dawistein

Hey so the bret knight I posted in the last thread is going real swell, still unsure how I can add embellishment to the horse robes while keeping the an empire theme though ;), I ended up swapping the lance out as he's too cool to back row

We know Bretonnians WILL hire mercenaries, though, usually with a convoluted multi-layer excuse to justify their presence. Carcassonne is particularly practiced at this, hiring massive companies of battle-hardened men as "shepherds" at a laughable rate and "accidentally" dropping bags full of gold in the pay chest come payment time.

There's not too much evidence of that though.
Orcs aren't all that bright, but they can learn from experience like anyone. They just don't accumulate much experience outside of war because they don't care about anything else.
And they aren't 40k orcs that are literally programmed biological weapons unless you count any of the lore written by the jizz-guzzling fuckheads writing that fucking horseshit into the game in later editions to feed the 40k idiots.

So are you saying that Bretonnia couldn't afford to pay mercenaries even if they wanted to hire them? Or just that their feudal system and military organization means that they don't really have room for mercenaries, so to speak, while the Empire has state troops, militias, and mercenaries?

I think of it more like a dog bred for hunting - they have some things by instinct, and they can do that well enough, which makes them a lot better than the average dog that you try to turn into a hunting dog, but it still requires some hands-on experience.

So my group's going on an expedition to the ruins of the city of Mordheim in the next session, and I just wanted to post the basics of their adventure here, so people can provide input on weaknesses or stuff to change.

Hundreds of years after Mordheim burned to the ground, an enterprising Skaaven from Clan Moulder has returned with a small army of slaves and rats, seeking anything he could scavenge from the ruins, now picked clean time and time again.

However he then turned his attention to digging beneath the city, down through the horrific sewer system, now clogged with horrifying undead and with water tainted beyond belief. No success was had for ages and he was on his last dozen slaves or two, before a small vein was discovered, enough to compensate for the entire party.

However they also discovered something next to the vein, a Vampire from the ancient fights over Mordheim, crushed beneath a collapsing building fallling deep through the ruined earth. The wyrdstone sustained and tainted it beyond belief into a horrific monster, is killed almost all of the Skaven, and devoured most of the slaves.

But one escaped, clutching a chunk of rock and wyrstone in his hands. His mind shattered, he was found wandering Striland by a Bright Wizard, who at once recognised the stone, and took him back to the College. The Bright College now wishes to send people to find wherever it came from. However at the same time, word of the stone has filtered through the underground, where a few still remember the old tales. In addition, the vampire's tainted awakening sent ripples through Shyish, which have come to the attention of some of its kind resting in their tombs in Sylvania.

There isn't much left, but it's more than enough to die over, and leave whoever finds it rich beyond their wildest dreams.

The last Wyrdstone of Mordheim.

>So are you saying that Bretonnia couldn't afford to pay mercenaries even if they wanted to hire them?
They could, but it would be VERY expensive comparatively.
One of the major reasons the Thirty Years War got so fucked and did so much damage was that with a fief-based economy the expense of hiring mercenaries was getting pretty crazy and they very soon couldn't afford to PAY them anymore and thus they kept them out in the field to basically keep looting for their payment.
Fiefdom-based economies that don't rely on trade or coinage means most money comes in the form of literally food being paid to you by peasants, which has the downside of not being easily tradable and not good for buying most shit.

I don't know shit about economics, but it's not as if mercenaries did not exist before the 16th century, right? And Bretonnia seems to at least trade with other powers, so it must have enough of a currency-based economy for trade with the Empire or Estalia and Tilea.

Will there be a bright wizard npc?

Yeah, it's his introduction to the group.
Him hiring them (offering them money if they should find Wyrdstone) to help in his expedition to the dead city.

Wait, sorry, I thought you said PC.
No, it's a Bright Wizard PC.

Group details?

It's a group with rotating GMs, I'm the most experienced by far though.

>Dwarf Targeteer, ex-Huntsman, now a scouting-only does-little NPC as I'm GMing.
>Human Journeyman Wizard, ex-Apprentice, Bright Mage, likes burning stuff.
>Human Mate, ex-Buckaneer/whatever, likes melee combat, talks like a Pirate.
>Human something criminal-y, melee, not sure his other skills.
>Elf Scholar, ex-student, does little other than shoot a bow and try to use social skills.
>Elf Criminal (don't know the career, making new character for this session).

For the last few adventures, my players have mostly run combat-centric or combat-only stuff, and at this point I'm fairly certain that's the meat of what they want. So I'm at least trying to make it at least more interesting than defending a shitty town from bandits like last session.

Nice, but next time for posts, make sure your pics are right side up! :)

But the bret looks good mate

>I don't know shit about economics, but it's not as if mercenaries did not exist before the 16th century, right?
They did, but they didn't often work the way you're probably thinking of, namely exchanging hard currency for war services.
To whit; even the word "mercenary" as we use it is relatively modern (around the 14th century, not coincidentally right around the time they started becoming more and more common), the root word basically meaning "for profit" and having no actual martial connotations until then.
Bretonnia trades; it has it's "merchant clubs, but they aren't very powerful because a hugely influential (meaning wealthy and thus possessing actual coinage and wealth) merchant class heavily erodes a top-down feudal power structure because if you have enough money under your control you CAN tell someone to just fuck off, which traditionally is why in older cultural aristrocrats have been kinda down on the Middle Class, namely that the more wealth and opportunity they have the more they can flaunt your authority.
Basically, a manorial fiefdom economy is much less efficient (most places don't have goods and services, because the only goods anyond produces is farming goods) at producing hard currency because 90% of the people involved in it have no reason to USE it at all.

To give a modern comparison; imagine a guy who has lots of wealth but no actual hard cash because it's all invested in stuff, mostly farms.

Magnus raised Mordheim to the last brick.

Okay, so I'll have to make it mildly non-canonical.
Thanks.

Sounds like an interesting hook, I'd be concerned as to what kind of enemies you are putting them against prior to the vampire boss, if this is mostly combat focused like you said.

If the cities raised and all the skaven are dead, what will they fight? You can do some interesting things with giant rats and fungus underground but what else are you planning?