Warmachine/Hordes General - /wmhg/

I managed to trade Molik Karn for an entire Guildball list, the game is so cheap it's amazing!

>so either everything is getting a little better, or some things are getting WAY better.

Or they're getting worse :^)

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rhinodon nerfed again, but the changes that Soles spoiled they're testing a month ago on the PP forums were strong buffs across the board. The only nerf was the Gladiator going up to 15 points. Interestingly, this will mean the battlebox is no longer 0 points unless the Raider or Savage is coming down by 1. Some of the shit was super sweet though. Swordsmen getting mini feat weaponmaster and MAT7, Cataphracts getting tough and each one getting a nice buff, Morghoul2 and Makeda1 are getting complete reworks, the Krea is being made great again and gunlines are going to pay for it. I'm cautiously optimistic.

More likely is the caster getting an extra WB point.

To be fair Xekaar going up 32 seems fine because his title is explicitly "Beast Master". It made no sense that Naaresh, a fucking sandnigger monk, had 32 points while the beast master had 31.

>Doomshaper 3
26 Warbeast points
>Sklud has 30

They figure in attachments, faction and spells bro

>They figure in attachments, faction and spells bro
None of that applies when you're talking about Skorne. There's a reason we're getting 89 changes.

Really, warjack or warbeast focused casters honestly get fewer points, because it's stuff they're already going to take.

>Really, warjack or warbeast focused casters honestly get fewer points, because it's stuff they're already going to take.
Morghoul1 and Xekaar are beast focused and they have 30 and 31 respectively. Beast points aren't there to convince you to take beasts, they're there to give weaker casters an edge. Naaresh has 32 because PP doesn't think he's that strong, so they can compensate by letting him have a larger army. Likewise Makeda3 comes with her 2 guards and is quite strong so only gets 24 points. If Doomshaper3 is a generally strong caster, there's no reason to give him more points just because he likes using gargs.

Correct

Skorne has 89 problems and Warbeast points ain't one of them

I'll invalidate your theory just using Trolls

>Ragnor has 30 points, most in faction
>Madrak 2 has 28 points, one of the higher in faction
>So does Gunnbjorn

So, who has the lower points in Trolls?

eGrim has 25(!)
Doomshaper 3 has 26

What do those two Warlocks have in common. They come with extra dudes.

is this the guild ball thread? Where is the guild ball general????

Are you attempting to invalidate the theory that WB/WJ points are just another fact of a caster's balance that can be nudged up and down? Because I'm pretty sure you can't disprove that more points makes a caster stronger.

Kaya2 gets 24 WB points, and Laris is definitely worth 7-8.

Karchev has 30 WP, Harkevich 28.

Fucking OP bullshit nerf mad dogs pl0x

I dunno. Despite Warmahordes being a dead game that fills a thread once every other day or so, Guildball (which has allegedly poached 90% of WMH players and PP staff) still doesn't have its own general. :^)

>Skorne has 89 problems and Warbeast points ain't one of them

Not actually true. Zaal1 could really use one or two more; dudespamming ain't cheap and the only reason he hasn't got the fewest in the faction is what they did to some of the Makedas.

Both Zaals should be top end in WB points as things stand because of the relative weakness of infantry.

Eh, irusk can win it but it's not an auto crushing victory.

You have to win hard during the feat turn or the army slowly turns into mush

Has obulus been touched yet?

I heard that he was carrying the morticians very strongly

I have a fully painted army of pigs I haven't used since mid mk2 (playing a bit sparse).
What would you recommend just from the latest update?

I started out with Carver, but Helga soon took his place. Shes just got so many great things going for her. The problem here, is that I used to run quite a bit of warbeast heavy with Carver, when Helga (to me at least) looks to be the infantry caster.
Should I just get a extra unit of slaughterhousers and drop some of the warbeasts?
Ugh, its been a good 6 month since my last game, I wouldn't even know where to start!

>Ugh

an "Oink" should have placed better, I know...

Why even buy any new skorne models at this point?

Because of the 89 upcoming changes?

A battleboar is basically a mandatory choice, since pigs have no real fury management options other than letting your beasts frenzy anyway so primal is too good to pass up.

Rorsch and Brine are legitimately the best models for their points in the entire game, and they're extra great when benefiting from carvers feat, or combining Helga's slams with the weird vectors brine can get. Rorsch also gets 3 bootable shots every turn, one of which is an aoe. They should be in virtually every minions list you ever make.

If you're focused on pigs specifically, the thornfall theme gets you a ton of free points if you have a bunch of infantry. Commandos are also a new unit that is only worth fielding in theme, but is worth it then. Ambush is a huge difference for them.

The warlord is actually good now, the Brigands are a package with an absolute ton of offensive punch even if they're expensive and made of paper. Definitely worth using with Helga,

If you arent worried about tlstayibg in theme, Helga is one of the few padlocks in the game with legitimate reasons to field gatormen posse, her gang fighter field marshal and her feat love reach infantry, and she can put defenders ward on them to actually make them a vaguely respectable speedbump.

All the pig beasts are good now, you can't go wrong having at least one or two of each of them. The warhog and roadhog got mashed together into one chassis so the warhog is speed 5 now, and thanks to also having 1" reach as a heavy and only taking dial damage at the end of its activation it is a much, much more intimidating piece on the table, especially for just 15 points. Carver can even make it a speed 7 pathfinder weaponmaster on the turn you want to charge in.

Bine grinders are completely different now. Bow they are small cheap units with magical melee weapons, dismember, and can choise individually to have grievous wounds or inflict pain every turn.

Can we all just agree that aside from the dragon factions, which are just ARGH BLARGH RAPE YOU WITH A RUSTY SCALPEL, the Convergence are pretty much the worst people. Best case scenario they want to rearrange the fundamental energy source of the world to summon a goddess even they know almost nothing about into the physical plane (and look how well that went for the elves). They are also a super-creepy cult with mega-indoctrination that is led by robots the creepy brainwashing cult themselves acknowledge may be under some mental influence, or at the very least don't function the way they used to cognitively. Also, the robots are based on necrotech.

Even worst case scenario, the Skorne just want to torture you and put you in a really horrible labor camp. They don't intend on altering the laws of reality to summon a fucking god of riddles. Except maybe Mordikaar, since he wants to tear holes in reality and summon crazy rage ghosts, but he's not in charge at least and would probably get ganked for heresy sooner or later.

Obulus did get touched in a bad place.

this is now guild ball general thread

Arcadius and double/triple Roadhog is pretty sick.

Did mordikaar show back up in the Skorne battlebox fluff or is he still awol after getting devourer'd?

I ordered my self all the brewers after playing some matches at the game store. Same with a ten thunders list for malifaux with a shen long and misaki box.

I also ordered a mountain king and a siege crawler. I kinda wish I bought all this before the holidays so I could have some time to paint.

Mordikaar is immune to the crime of heresy as his research may very well be the salvation of the Skorne. The question is whether or not he'll survive getting Wurmed. If anyone can, he can. Perhaps his ordeal will force him to refine his methods and finally crack the secret to immortality.

Source?

Too bad not one of the six stores I frequent run it.

I wish scalpel was more useful.

Moving influence around is so pointless a lot of the time.

The Iosans gods didn't cause any major issues themselves, it was the Bridge of Souls that caused the real problems.

Also, there's no big mind control in Convergence. Hell, one of the big things about their religion is that you should live a full life before you transfer into a clockwork body so you have no lingering regrets(As Mom herself is finding out the hard way).

YEAH!

Privateer Press is now shadowbanning users.

"Jetulu,

In the past year it has become clear to Privateer Press that the amount of negative content on the forums has become detrimental to our community. It has been brought to our attention people no longer want to participate in conversations on the forums because of the amount of nonconstructive and hostile conversation present.

This is unacceptable. We are increasing our efforts to promote constructive conversation and prevent unnecessarily negative content from coopting our forums.

Due to your history of inflammatory and disruptively negative posts, you have been placed on the “Global Ignore” list. You will be able to sign in and read content on the forums, but any content that you post will be visible only to you and any other users on the Global Ignore list.

We feel that this is fair in lieu of a ban from the forums. If you can adhere to the forums terms of service, keeping your criticisms constructive and refrain from personal attacks, your posting privileges will be looked at.

- Valerie"

The only thing is that other shadowbanned people can not see what I am posting, I have tested this with Kriegsspiele.
To that the reply was:

"This appears to be a misunderstanding on our part of the capabilities of our Global Ignore list feature, and for that we apologize.

- Valerie "

It appears that if you've had inflammatory comments or criticism in the past on their boards, they will now shadowban you and no one can see your posts. Apparently if you missbehaved on the forum this past year you are now supposed to talk to yourself until they deem you safe for the boards.

Games Workshop forums. All over again.

I was actually banned for this:

Is there any point to Mr. Walls? If you include him, you can't add new grunts to the unit with Shanghai anymore.

After the Skorne errata Cryx is gonna be the only unplayable faction in the game. Do you think PP will give Cryx 80+ fixes in the summer errata?

>Do you think PP will give Cryx 80+ fixes in the summer errata?

Not a chance in hell.

Which is about as likely as I am to spend any more money on their game in the future.

Cryx is hyperbole. They're not unplayable, it's just really hard from them to beat Cygnar.

Satyxis Raiders can single-handedly beat unprepared list.

Right, but that doesn't mean the faction is much fun to play. We've got a handful of units/casters which are good enough to keep us broadly playable, but I'd say at least 75% of our units are junk. Even with our best we're only just okay.

I don't think it's asking too much for the Zombie Apocalypse faction to be able to put lots of undead models on the table without gimping themselves.

>Ferox are good, Skorne doesn't need fixing

How well does warmahordes trade for 40k or other wargames? I have some armies im trying to get rid of that were abandoned at my house.

What's all this about Cryx being unplayable garbage? They've been doing all right in tournaments and last I heard they were mostly just shit against gunlines.

Gunlines are strong in the meta because most casuals who want to pretend to be competitively-minded set up really shit shooting gallery tables

I'm not saying "everything is fine, you are wrong!", because there are important issues with a lot of Cryx. A whole lot.

However, people are acting as if Cryx was the only Bretonnia book while everyone else got 7th edition Chaos Demons.

Things could change, so stop being babies. The mk2 Khador players never complained either, so deal with it.

This. I played a game against my friend's Kara Sloan list recently and the table we played on had a big fucking forest (8x5?) right in the middle of the table. That forest ruined his entire game.

Kara honestly isn't even really a problem I list for most factions, it's just a strong list as long as the field isn't dominated by a giant 2' circle of open terrain in the middle of the floor. Buffing her feat went a huge way toward fixing the parts of uer that were actually broken

I was just listing an example for obvious shooty casters who can get fucked over by terrain a lot.

Sloan is awesome, but not broken by any stretch. She can be strong and at the same time suck. Hunter spam was never a good list for her and I'm more afraid of what she can do with a real army.

Buy them up cheap and hope the errata makes your purchases worth it. Bit of a gamble and I'm sure prices are already going up now that the buffs are known to be coming.

On a completely different note let's ignore the crunch of the game and let's talk about our favorite warcaster/unit/jack/beast flavor wise.

>Warcaster
Thyron, I like the whole weaboo swordmaster thing he has going on and he has a bitching model.
>Unit
Mage hunter, I had fun painting there models and I think the sneaky heretic hunter theme is pretty cool
>Warjack
Ol' Rowdy, BEEP BOOP FUCK THE REDS!

>Warlock
Absylonia. I really like all of her versions. Badass art. Supports beasts, which are the reason I got into the game. Has decent fluff too.
>unit
Legionairres. My favorite unit appearance wise in my faction. Farilor is really cool too.
>Teraph
Really cool looking. In the 3.5 IKRPG they were hilarious too.

Depends on what they are. Go check out Bartertown.com and get a feel. You might be able to convert all those PP ducats into 40K creds.

I agree Absylonia is cool af

How did MK3 effect the Talion Charter? Better? Worse? Was planning on using my Christmas bonus to pick up the new book/cards and get Shea back on the table for the first time in forever

and what the fuck is this guildball you're all bitching about?

>beast

Aradus Soldiers are just beautiful fluff. Send slaves down into a hive full of 9-foot tall mutant termites enough of them come back with eggs to make it economical (although slaves are pretty cheap when when weighed against warbeasts, the Skorne Empire RPG book sort of has the conversion rate- One Day of Slave Labor is pretty much the Skorne dollar). Hatch them and condition/flesh hook/brain surgery the larva as they mature until you have 9-foot tall Soldier-termite warbeasts. THAT is how you match warjacks with no mechanized industrial base but a lot off bodies and good biotech.

all pirate casters can take the big gun now :)

What was/is your screen-name on the forums?

>If you arent worried about tlstayibg in theme, Helga is one of the few padlocks in the game with legitimate reasons to field gatormen posse, her gang fighter field marshal and her feat love reach infantry, and she can put defenders ward on them to actually make them a vaguely respectable speedbump.
Wow, so posse went from "Best heavy infantry" to at best a Vaguely respectable speedbump?

I play a lot of Fishermen's guild myself. Just ordered Gutter and Corsair. spin2win

hard to find much malifaux in my area, is it worth it to get into it? i don't know much about it

Guild ball is a 6v6 game that's kind of like playing with 6 warcasters whos goal is to get to 12 points to win, with a goal being worth 4 and a take out being worth 2.

WMH players pick up GB very quickly due to the similiarities and overall GB is a tighter, better game and with a lot less model bloat.

take a look at the kick off box, it blows PP's starter shit out of the water

It's not surprising considering the mods are a bunch of PC faggots. i saw them censor the word retard. The next step for leftie mod teams like that is always shadow banning with vague excuses of the evil toxicity

>it blows PP's starter shit out of the water

That's like being "almost" the smartest person at the table, with only Einstein sitting besides you.

Yep. I got the same treatment.

I said that the dev team was stupid for not learning from their mistakes. This was in regards to spam lists like EE and Bradigus.

Translation: "Our forums are for free advertising, not feedback, get fucked."

>I said that the dev team was stupid

Yeah, I think I see what the issue there was.

But they are?

Spam lists were a huge problem towards then end of mk2 and they are already a problem in mk3. Then they say it's an intended playstyle and will not counteract this?

EE, Bradigus, 30BANEZ, MMM all were horrible to play against. Then Mad Dogs and Una2 come out when mk3 was the time to stop lists like that.

They are being stupid.

>now

Dude, I got banned months ago.

PP can't handle the fact that they've fucked up.

Why do you always ask this?

There's a difference between constructive criticism and name calling.

I find malifaux fun. It's definitely not a game to dip in just casually once in a while though. It can get quite complex and mission structures mean that games require a lot of fore front thinking on the fly.

If you've been shadow-banned shouldn't we still be able to look up your profile? Also, I might remember some of your posts.

In fairness, most of the users bitching are the equivalent to LoL or WoW players. It's a whole lot of asshurt shitposting. GW went through this years ago. Reason why it's kind of new to tabletop is that this probably the 2nd time where a game hit this size where it gets the large user base that just talks a whole lot of drama.

Mods delete offending posts anyway.

That's what you get when you test everyone's patience and have the galls to mock them for it.

PP doesn't even have the sheer quantity of players like LoL or WoW to sift through the shitposting with. It's not like the userbase is all 14 year olds.

How long has Soles been with PP?

At this point they are being stupid though. When someone is being stupid you tell them.

Either from the get go or at least from mki days.

Yet they can still shit up a discussion pretty hard. I tend to blow off most forumites bitching cause most of them are mid-level players. Most games at the mid-level can be won by getting better, Like it or not, there is a lot of room for skill in this game. I'm not saying I'm better or something. My point is I don't lose and take my asshurt to the forums to declare my lose as a design flaw.

If you think something is stupid, arbitrary boring, you can point to this man.

That's false assumption. Just because your skillgap can make up for deficiencies doesn't mean that it's still balanced. I won a shit ton of games with mkii Gunnbjorn and lost plenty to Amon.

That doesn't mean that those casters were fine. Every data will have outliers, but it doesn't invalidate the basic truth.

I literally got banned for because of "Highly inappropriate language".

What, is Warmachine an ages 9-12 hobby? Even the fucking pokemon forums allow this magnitude.

Well theres also an assumption that theyre striving to some sort of balance and that if they are striving for balance, it's the balance of checkers.

If you're familiar with theyre history you'd know there was never a time where the game was balanced. So going in and expecting that it's gonna get patched the way WoW adjusts class power level isn't really a something to expect.

history of failure does not excuse failures.

Just cause it wasn't balanced to your liking doesn't mean it wasn't a success. Most people don't play for balance. If you want balance then you should try something else. They must be doing something right if theyre in that top 5 largest games.

Holy Christ that screams autistic.

Mkii had absolutely perfect timing and market selection.

The start of Mkii was right at the end of Codex Daemon release and Vampire Counts. This basically drove away a huge mass of GW players into the game where the subsequent imbalance issues were much more tolerable.

This was also when PP had a massive open fieldtest and has received much praise for it.

Infinity was still second ed and working off of shoddy modeling, translation, formatting, and retail.
Malifaux was still 1st ed and was seen as a fad game for edgy people with (still) polarizing art.
X-wing and Attack Wing were starting competition and people didn't go head long into those due to uncertainty of either company's future with the games. At this time FFG was not known for the game support or longevity, mired mostly by their production issues.
Kickstarters didn't exist and small groups could not make game concepts at the time that could've challenged PP.

Mkii was a perfect storm of getting people in and the open field test stopped a lot of stupid shit from getting through such as checking for frenzy after shaking that shook the forum for a week.

Mkiii is releasing after/because the market has gotten really crowded and PP has proven that they just can't make the claim to be the most balanced or the biggest crowd for games.

I don't even want balance. I just want the stuff I like playing to not suck.