Glad you could make it, Uther

Too bizarre for me

#NotMyWarchief

t. Blood Elf Paladin

>Woman with a pulse
>Not slutty

Pick one.

Someone hasn't been around on Veeky Forums long enough

They made her a neutral hero in the expansion that's why.

But she's already in the base game. Dark ranger literally a recolor with some cheap smoke fxs.
>elf
>ghost
>???
>suddenly elf again

Science.

But for serious she just possessed and is puppetting around her old body.

Arthas needed someone to work as his personal onahole.

She's still a banshee. She just decided to put on her old skin again by combining demon magic with the banshee's natural "possession" ability. But she's just wearing it like a meat suit. She can pop out any time she wants.

Sylvanas did nothing wrong

Weird that she died from being shot honestly, should the second death of her Meat suit just expel her from it again to be repossessed?

Actually, speaking of the new warchief, does she actually do anything of note? The only time Alliance sees her is when she makes a deal with Helya and when Graymane ruins her lamp.

she is still a banshee, she just possessed her old body. Sylvanas clearly has acceptance issues, and doesn't want to admit to the fact that shes been dead for over 30 years.

That's called "Writers forgetting shit" and is sadly common in WoW.

>t. Nathanos

Who's the gift taxidermist that got rid the big hole where stabby stabby happened? Why isn't she falling apart at the seams like the rest? It's not like with Arthas who never actually died and just got juiced up with cursed lich sword magics.

so far nothing big has happened. But the tension between the undead and gilneas can be cut with a knife.

>"hurr durr death is too good for you I'm gonna give you something far worse... like having a body that doesn't age as well as the ability to pop out and possess other bodies at will"
What's the downside again?

He initially made her a body-less banshee. She managed to take up residence in her corpse later on.

What he said I'm 90% sure they just killed her to show the players not familiar with the lore that the val'kyr can rez her.

But for real, in her short story she said the best way to be sure that her body and soul would be shredded is by jumping off of Icecrown Citadel and bursting on the frozen blood spikes of an old god. Which is exactly what she did.

Anyway, the way I rationalize that "blunderbuss to the back of the head killed a banshee" thing is by pretending that blunderbuss was specifically enchanted to hard counter banshees. It makes sense to prepare your weapon to kill your target before actually attempting assassination.

>hey Champion, you should totally help me out and kidnap and enslave Eyir, Odyns head Valkyr when your actively trying to prove your worth to him to get the aegis of aggramar and turn her into my personal death Valkyr so i can keep the Forsaken out of super hell, damn the conquences that this might have with our relationship with Odyn

The downside was he forced her, a defender to her people, to help him slaughter them all while having to serve him forever.

All that other shit with her getting her body back and getting to have free will came later, and came out of her breaking free of his control.

Not yet. I'm waiting to see if she'll get the Vol'jin treatment and is killed off before doing anything.

But I'll hold my breath and give her until the end of the expansion.

It apparently hurts constantly and fucks with your head. Supposedly, banshees feel pain and emotion far more keenly than normal undead, and undead in general tend toward negative emotions. Feeling positive emotions literally causes them pain. That's part of the curse.

It's pretty edgelord.

I think there was that thing where Lich King had absolute psychic dominion over all things undead so it was a hey I'm gonna play you like a marionet and make you murder your own people and other shit until Illidan tried to crash Northrend with no survivors.

theres a lot of mystery around the undead, and its been building up for the last few expansions. All we know right now is that

>Sylvanas thinks the world would be a better place if everyone is undead
>she is trying to gain control of the dead completely, she wants the powers of a god
>shes terrified of dying (again)
>she actually thinks the undead need to find a way to reproduce and become a sustaining race
>this is proof of her denial of what she is
>the undead have been working in secret making plagues
>these plagues are essentially chemical weapons of mass destruction
>she has control of half the val'kyr in azeroth
>this means she can possess bodies, not limited to just her own

everything is pointing to her trying to pull something bad. Greymane actually stopped something huge in Stormheim, if she had taken the full power of the val'kyr, I believe she would have tried to kill helya and become the new queen of the underworld. at this point she either needs to be stopped entirely, or do something drastic that proves she isnt trying to take over the world, which I think she is.

Cataclysm had terrible writing tbqh. I'm pretty sure the quest designers knew 0 lore.

I want to torture Sylvanas with my endless love!

Meta reasons of "hot elf" aside...

She pumped a shit ton of necromancy in her old body before taking residence. It's super durable now and got repaired by shadow magic.

I'd reproduce with her

>new warchief
I just vomited a bit.

yea shes hot on the outside and in the fan art. the reality is shes a corpse.

To be fair, she told us she would be pursuing Eyir by her own means, and that the Forsaken fleet was entirely dedicated to helping the player get the Aegis.

Before, y'know, Genn bombed them. Even then, she still told you and the Forsaken to get the Aegis. Nathanos just didn't listen to her and went after the Worgen.

And even though we tried to help Sylvanas enslave the Eyir, Odyn seemed pretty chill with us regardless. I guess all that matters to him is potency in combat. Honestly, he seems like a closeted douchebag.

the only other person who would have been fit for warchief was lor'themar, so either way it would have been filthy elves. Vol'jin was told by spirits to make her the warchief, and we all pretty much had to accept that reasoning. in truth, with the death of varian, and the hatred of the horde by jaina and greymane, I think having the toughest horde character be war chief was the best way to do it. if the alliance tries to pull anything at least sylvanas wont hesitate to meet force with force.

Man, when is she going to ascend and become a titan? I mean, its not like Blizzard can write more than one story ever.

>Honestly, he seems like a closeted douchebag.
all patron gods are massive douchebags, Odyn is no exception.

>only other fitting Warchief
>Lor'Themar
>not BAINE, SON OF CAIRNE
>YOU KNOW, THE SON OF A MEMBER OF THE WCIII HORDE TRIO

I'm still mad.

>baine
>suckling, traitor and human lover
>warchief

>>Sylvanas thinks the world would be a better place if everyone is undead
She never said that once.

>>she is trying to gain control of the dead completely, she wants the powers of a god
That is also just purely speculation and fanon. She never said that.

>>she actually thinks the undead need to find a way to reproduce and become a sustaining race
This is true.

>>this is proof of her denial of what she is
I think it's her finally accepting what she is.

>>the undead have been working in secret making plagues
It's not been secret for years now. Are you still stuck in Cata?

>>these plagues are essentially chemical weapons of mass destruction
This is true.

>>she has control of half the val'kyr in azeroth
This is false. She has 4 val'kyr in total, and a number of lesser val'kyr spawned from the 4. The vast majority of valks are controlled by Helya, Odyn, or are neutral spirit healers in the Shadowlands.

>>this means she can possess bodies, not limited to just her own
This is also true. I'd love to see her do it more often as a means of infiltration.

He was a big guy

Baine isn't ready to lead, hes too young and hasn't seen enough violence to lead a faction that was created on violence. Sylvanas and lor'themar are thousands of years old and have both seen/experience multiple wars.

He's too young still. Give it a few years.

After Sylvanas, I think Baine would make a great peacetime Warchief. But right now we need Sylvanas's ruthlessness and pragmatism against the Legion and to force faction conflict.

if she tried to steal eyirs power, and eyir is a god, I think that paints a pretty obvious picture. Helya clearly didnt trust her when she made the deal, threatening her not to try and screw her over. Sylvanas tried to turn her youngest sister undead too, so yes she hasn't outright said the entire world should be undead but I mean...come on. I mentioned the plague thing simply for people that don't play WoW and still try to follow the story. We actually knew about the secret plagues since WotLK

>t least sylvanas wont hesitate to meet force with force.
This is true. One way or another, I don't think Sylvanas will let the Horde crumble. Say what you will about her motives, but right now it is in her best interest to keep the Horde strong and together. Right now, I don't need an honorable Warchief. I just need a Warchief that can get the job done.

>and to force faction conflict.
Jaina and Greymane are gonna do that regardless. The horde needs Sylvanas to stand up to them.

Nah, you're thinking of Illidan.

So did a significant chunk of the horde and all of the alliance.
>just ousted a genocidal maniac dictator with a whole bag of issues
>why yes, let's place command of the increasingly strained and fragile Horde in the hands of a genocidal maniac dictator with a whole bag of issues
>nevermind that the Alliance is highly unified, seething at a percieved betrayal and by and large loathes the forsaken from previous bullshit.

>I don't think Sylvanas will let the Horde crumble.
this was pretty much Vol'Jins entire reasoning for putting her in charge. its really too bad that Thrall is a fucking cucklord, and Gallywix is just a conniving jew

>nevermind that the Alliance is highly unified
they aren't, Varian was the only thing holding them together. Jaina has gone awol and with Varian gone is probably the strongest alliance character. Greymane respected Varian enough to not outright overthrow Anduin, but he clearly isn't going to listen to what Anduin says. If you want an example of what kind of leader Baine would have been, look no further than the current king of Stormwind.

>and eyir is a god
Eyir isn't a god. She's a titan construct turned Val'kyr.

>Helya clearly didnt trust her when she made the deal
Helya's a salty asshole who doesn't trust anyone. Besides, are you saying it's a bad thing if Sylvanas screws over Helya while making the Horde stronger? Are you actually rooting for Helya here?

>so yes she hasn't outright said the entire world should be undead but I mean...come on
She wanted to turn Vareesa undead because she knew the Forsaken would never accept a living leader. She was going to make her undead as a compromise.

She has literally never said or even hinted that she wants to make the world undead. Even in her internal monolgues, we've never seen that from her. And she works with the living every day. Assuming she wants to make the whole world undead is fanon and trying to canonize the "lich queen" meme.

See Also, the Alliance is pretty divided and without strong leadership. Anduin is a pussy boyking.

Baine and Anduin are even personal friends.

Also where's Wrathion?

They still trying to sell the 'Illidan was right all along, you players are prideful monsters that need to atone for killing the world's only hope'-angle propagated by the chief fangirl/windchime?

All the faction leaders are secretly dreadlords playing the factions against one another for laughs since there aint jackshit to do now that the burning legion is defunct.

Blizzard may be trying desperately to retcon all the dumb shit Illidan has done, but you don't get a title like "the Betrayer" without consistently fucking over everyone not you. Like what he did in WC3; and again in Frozen Throne, several times in fact. Dudes just an asshole that they're propping up as a hero.

When are we going to deal with the /v/ spillover?

I want to pound his kingly boipucci.

>implying there's hope

You are funny man.

But don't you understand?! He had to make the hard decisions nobody else could make! And he was destined to save everybody, but that was stolen from when a bunch of terrible people came after him for crimes he was totally uninvolved in!
And also, he has such dreamy eyes!

Name one person Illidan betrayed that wasn't an evil asshole??

>She's a titan construct turned Val'kyr.
I will concede that in warcraft lore, Titans are not gods. But Eyir is pretty fucking strong compared to your average mortal, her powers are godlike but yes, she is not a god in the warcraft universe.

and im not rooting for helya, but it wouldn't bode well to have someone like sylvanas in charge of the afterlife, it would just disrupt the status quo in a bad way.

the alliance right now, is very much like Rome when Julius Ceasar died. Pompey, Antony, Augustus, and Lepodus all vying for power now that the alpha leader is dead. I believe we will see the alliance fall apart in this expansion or the next, and perhaps even a civil war. Unless of course, Anduin gets his shit together and accepts that a king needs to be ready to fight at all times.

Never, enjoy endless video game generals, don't worry though it's Veeky Forums related because it says so in the op :^)

>I think having the toughest horde character be war chief was the best way to do it.
Memes aside, that would probably be Saurfang, not zombie elf

there is a theory that Wrathion is corrupted and will eventually show his true colours. That is completely up in the air because he hasn't given us much reason to assume this, but his track record isn't exactly clean. His father is deathwing, his uncle is nefarian, his aunt is onyxia, and the black dragon flight aren't known for their diplomacy.

the way blizzard went with Illidans storyline is actually pretty cool, and makes a lot of sense. Night elves are way more prejudiced than you would think, they were super reluctant to join the alliance and essentially don't like or trust things that aren't like them, even other elves. Malfurion and Tyrande are the only reasons the night elves are being peaceful because they both remember what happened when the legion first came to azeroth.

Illidans story is actually pretty sad, he made a sacrafice and turned himself into a monster so he could protect the people he loved, then those people turned on him and treated him like shit for it. when you get locked up for 10000 years after saving the world its going to do some shit to your mental, but even still, Illidans intentions (according to blizzards new story) have always been to protect azeroth at all costs.

>but it wouldn't bode well to have someone like sylvanas in charge of the afterlife, it would just disrupt the status quo in a bad way.
I can agree with that currently. However, I could see her being an ok neutral being of the Shadowlands if she undergoes some character progression this expac. And it seems like they're pushing her into a pseudo-redemption arc, based on the broken shore and vol'jin death cinematic.

I wonder what her Vag feels like

if you play the warrior campaign, Saurfang is an emotional wreck, and shows no signs that he is willing to be a leader of any sort, he just wants to die in battle.

Malfurion. For getting the girl they both wanted and has been consistently just been a dick to him cause it wasn't his dick Tyrande wanted. It's like him being a self-serving prick is just him being salty about not getting the girl in the most obnoxious way to get her attention and show how much better he is than Malfurion.

>the alliance right now, is very much like Rome when Julius Ceasar died. Pompey, Antony, Augustus, and Lepodus all vying for power now that the alpha leader is dead. I believe we will see the alliance fall apart in this expansion or the next, and perhaps even a civil war. Unless of course, Anduin gets his shit together and accepts that a king needs to be ready to fight at all times.
Honestly, I'd love to see an Alliance civil war arc, with the end result being the Alliance returning to an actual Alliance of equal powers and not a "blue Horde" with the !Warchief High King.

I mean, that fucker had divine armor, kinda needed the skull and chaos damage to even put in a scratch and fight on even ground. Literally the only reason Legion didn't take Azeroth the second time was nature spirits asspull. I'm still not clear how on the logistics of how ten thousands wisps comes out on top over Archimonde. Illidan was right and his brother is self righteous nomagics cunt.

zombie elf is, at the moment, the strongest horde character who also possesses the ability to lead.

>too young
Not really an argument when Anduin is younger than Baine and ruling Stormwind in his own right now.

>hasn't seen enough violence
Nigga grew up in the Barrens, where his tribe was nearly driven to extinction by the centaur. Then he personally lead a liberation force to retake Thunder Bluff from the Grimtotems. After that, he personally kills the leader of the Grimtotem warband during Cataclysm. Then AFTER THAT, he personally leads forces against Theramore under Garrosh's command and participates in melee combat. Then after that, he again sees combat during the Siege of Orgrimmar. Once more AFTER THAT, he fights the Legion at the Broken Shore.

Baine has seen plenty of violence, warfare, battle, etc. He's frequently leading his warriors into battle with himself at the very front.

>sylvanas and lor'themar are thousands of years old and have seen multiple wars

Sylvanas, for all her supposed "thousands" of years of life, has only ever had one military success. That was after Arthas killed her, after she'd already suffered her largest military defeat.

Lor'themar is in a similar boat. The only war we know for a fact he's seen is the war with the Scourge. We know how that turned out.

Fighting bands of troll raiders or whatever doesn't give you experience in large-scale theaters of war. That's probably one of the reasons the elves were defeated by the Scourge. Lack of experience fighting a foe more organized than tribal raiders. That and believing themselves secure behind their magical barriers and lacking any real backup plans in case those barriers fell.

Truth is, elves in Warcraft are pretty bad at war and regularly get their shit pushed in.

When will Illidan just excise all of his rage and rejection by hatefucking Maiev's brains out?

Wasn't he far more even about the whole thing in the original WC3?

I remember him being a dick, but wasn't Illidan ultimately trying to do the right thing, and most of it was just people assuming he was an evil asshole?

Arthas literally did nothing wrong.

I dunno man, he got himself killed.

He clearly did something wrong.

Veeky Forums has the best /v/ threads where we actually talk about lore. It's fucking amazing.

/v/ is trash.

- the guys at Blackrook Hold
- everybody that told him not to fuck around with a second well
- all the broken of outland

He was trying to do the right thing, problem is that he also wasn't very good at convincing others why he needed to do these things and instead opted for the DOTA route and just call them retards and surround himself with his sycophantic twitch subscribers.

To be totally honest, I'm bored of orc warchiefs and orcs in general. Let them fade into the background and become cool again.

t. Xe'ra

Oh, no argument there.

But the big point is that Illidan wasn't really evil until the writers decided he needed to be, and didn't really betray anyone.

Hell, I remember the whole sibling thing as much with Malfurion spending most of the time deciding he must be an evil asshole as it was Illidan doing shady shit.

>arthas dindu nuffin

Cold and wet. Also unrelentingly tight because of rigor.

He said as such, but his near constant passive-aggressive snipes he throws to Malfurion whenever they were talking to each other screams that there's still bad blood there. Of course being stuck in cave for several centuries will do that. Also being stuck in a cave with a bunch of hot purple poon you can't touch gives a wicked case of blue balls one would imagine.

I can agree that Malfurion is an asshat and a half. But Illidan's made of fuck-up. He's like the Magnus of Warcraft. He just fails at everything he sets out to do.

Being evil does not mean being on the side of the good guys and Whinidan is definitely evil and a betrayer. He murders other mages by the boatload during Blackrook hold without a hint of remorse and chews out Ravendicks for daring to question his mass murdering. He gives his sight to Sargarrar and joins up with the demon boys and despite this being just to gain the vision, he still was in cahoots with the demons for a moment. He also took a dose of the Well of Eternity which is something he shouldn't have done because naughty naughty, he betrayed the Broken in Outland and was actively destroying the remnants of that world just because he was afraid of the Legion. And then in WC3 he consumes Gul'Dandruff's skull for some demonic empowering which was what he was SPECIFICALLY TOLD NOT TO DO. Loads and loads of betrayals there in my eyes.

>Truth is, elves in Warcraft are pretty bad at war and regularly get their shit pushed in.
this is 100% accurate. the story of Huln Highmountain proved this (and is the best fucking story so far in legion).

anduin is only king because of how the alliance works, they are a unified monarchy where the king of stormwind is always in charge, and the king of stormwind is decided through royal birth. The horde is entirely different, they lead through tribal might, only the strongest of them can be warchief. If baine fought sylvanas right now, she would destroy him, and anyone else in the horde for that matter, that alone makes her the most eligible warchief.

as for wars she was the ranger general before she died, thats one of the highest military titles in elven culture. Even Lor'themar getting btfo in the war against the scourge gives him more experience than Baine, plus lor'themar is old enough to have fought against trolls during the height of their empire (which was huge btw, just not raiding parties).

I'll admit the barrens is a rough place, and if Baine was the only option he could certainly rise to the occasion, but hes not the only option, and the others were better at this current time.

Arthas got the benefit of being a more well rounded character that we see do horrible things and on some level can agree with, but his methods are extreme and you can plainly see it leading to his demise. He's a tragic hero that was brought low by his own desire to help the people he was sworn to protect and the legacy he was going to inherit.