/ktg/ Kill Team General

Yeh I don't know how to fix the Assassin rules outside of taking away their armoury that HoR gives them and taking away their Grandmaster upgrades.

which sucks since all that stuff is cool and goddamn nothing is more gratifying then melting shitloads of dudes in melee turn 1

I really want to take 5 Jokaeros as a Kill Team. Like really, really want that

Anyway, what's your favorite Kill Team? Are the models great, or are you pulling some unbeatable gimmick?

Newfag here. Looking for some easy advice for regular Kill Team.

-Are Camo Cloaks worth it for scouts? I'm assuming everyone has something with at least AP4. Or is it better to just take another Scout?

-Are a few scouts with Sniper Rifles worth it/useful?

-How many guys should I have that can deal with vehicles?

-Did they get rid of the "if you want to use Necrons Reanimation Protocol, they have to be within 2" of a friendly unit."?

The high(er) density of terrain in KT means you'll probably get a lot of mileage out of Stealth, though boys before toys is the rule.

Sniper Rifles can be good with good spotting positions, but they're at once helped and hampered by the terrain: able to perch and dissuade someone from moving models down your firelane, but the terrain can also get in the way of their fields of fire.

A few special weapons are ideal. You should have something to deal with heavies and give special rules to. Volume of fire can definitely put the hurt on models with high toughness and saves, but vehicles need something with high strength and armor penetration.

Not sure about Necrons in GW KT.

I'm a fan of a lot of infantry models. Skitarii have great troops, Space Marines are a staple, Eldar have so many awesome miniatures... But the game as it is now seems so heavily focused around big models shooting each other and smashing up infantry like it's nothing.

Kill Team is a format where infantry can make up the bulk of a team's fighting force, and it seems more balanced when models aren't trying to dodge S10 AP2 large blast templates, just trying to dodge bolter rounds and lasgun shots while ducking through cover.

I have no tips but yes you can give any unit that has access to DE armory Modified Biology

One Squad of Tacs and one of Sternguard can basically just make a solid Space Marine list. 5 Tacs, a Sternguard-y leader, and then Sternguard to fill up the remaining points plus some options and equipment for fun and flavor if you can afford it. Should probably aim for a minimum team number of seven to eight models so you don't get shot off the table from one or two casualties. If you need more specialized bits, you can check eBay for bits sellers and pick the parts you need.

Of course, I fucking make my teams all uniform as fuck because it's easier to math and plot out.

This right here is why I favour KT. I looked at getting back into 40k half a year ago, noticed all the superheavies and flyers rolling around and went straight to HoR instead.

Couldn't he just allow you to heal a point off of anything wraithbone-y? with a successful roll of course.

What about creating walls of wraithbone to obscure lines of sight?

So did GW ever release any official campaign rules for their Kill Team ?

They released something for an upcoming event at Warhammer world. 5 games in a row, three awards depending on how well you did at various things, specialities are fixed and can't be changed between games. No progression, though.

warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/Kill-Team-Spyral-Prime.pdf

Is this a good start to an admech HoR list? Am I right in thinking that the tech priest dominus is one of the better leader choices?

I'd wager so. Pity that the Dunecrawler will most likely end up as scenery, or perhaps an objective/scenario gimmick, though you could always flip it. The regular dudes in the box have loads of weapon options, if I recall correctly, and if you're into it you could magnetise them for more adaptability/options.

>play kt instead of regular 40k because it's not as bloated
>bloat it up again with HoR
Why is it that you guys need a rule to represent everything on the model? Too much granularity is cancer.

You better get 2 boxes of infantry if you dont plan to play regular 40k.

Depends what you fancy. GWKT is nice and quick, but HoR is good for getting a specific team of Your Dudes and having the intricacy of something approaching Necromunda.

That said, my lot consistently forget about pinning, hiding and setting stuff on fire when we play, and almost always ignore any failed team rout tests.

Why did you quit instead of stomping them until they saw the light? Superheavies and flyers are Timmy traps. They're big and cool and not actually good.

Wanting to have a half dozen small forces rather than a single big army may have been part of the decision making process.

Can Skitarii take transports in the current rules? Which one is the fluffiest to take?

I don't think they have any transports in their codex, not does Cult Mechanicum. If you're playing HoR with transports your opponent will probably let you take a Rhino/variant or a Chimera, since that's well within the purview of the Ad-Mech.

As for which would be fluffiest, that'd be whichever one their forge world manufactures. So that's up to you.

Well, the thing about healing would be anything with 1 Wound, which is just dead off the bat, meaning he'd only help special characters.

Wraithbone walls seem neat, but modifying existing cover instead of creating new walls seems like a more balanced idea. You'd have to give the wraithbone walls a pretty even toughness so as not to break the game, especially so in Zone Mortalis where you might be able to simply plug up certain entrances and camp objectives or deny your opponent access to others completely.

It has occurred to me that Sisters now have the option of taking command squads in kill teams.

DUAL WIELDING SPECIALISTS

My gf got me a box of skitaari rangers and a box of GSC neophyte hybrids and we decided to put together some kill teams. Ran a test game yesterday with her playing super speed painted skitaari and me playing my nurgle guys.

I got my shit pushed in mostly cos I bulked my group with plague zombies who got shot to shit immediately. Also had shitty luck with the die but had a lot of fun and the skitaari seem like a really good team. Can't wait to play around with them moar. Maybe gonna add some ruststalkers or something for some more melee power.

Could I take a dunecrawler and say it uses the same rules as a chimera?

Probably. Your opponent would have to be a real dick to not let you proxy it in as one, especially since the model will otherwise be unusable in HoR (and regular KT too).

Anyone have advice about building with HoR Harlequins?

Currently trying to build a 200 point list easily upgradeable to 250 for a growing game. As it stands, I have:
Leader: [35]
>Troupe Master (35)
Core: [75]
>Player x5 (15*5)
Special: [60]
>Shadowseer (60)
Which leaves me with 30 spare points I figure would be well spent on making the Leader more survivable and deadly, since I'd like to make a miniature Solitaire out of him.

Posted image: HoR Harley Codex.

Forgot to mention, probably going to have to leave 10 points flexible on the upgrades so I can get a Death Jester when upgrading to 250 points. Figure I'll get a whole Troupe in on the action.

My friend plays with two dominus and a bunch of those troops, they wreck house and have great weapon choices

My buddy took rhinos when we were playing, but there are no admech transports. It's up to how willing your opponent is to let you bend the rules that way

I killteam with my Tau vs my friend's skitarii and he usually out-dakkas me, they really have great guns

I feel like I might be unfair on my opponents for fielding two full combat groups of Vanguard plus 5 Secutarii Peltasts. Fifteen dudes with good guns seems offensive. Might decide to just trade in a Peltast and a squad of Vanguard for a Dragoon and maybe some upgrades for the team, as it otherwise seems disgusting save for its lack of weapons to deal with vehicles and tough units other than volume of fire.

Bump.

Shame Kill Team is not more popular. HoR used to have a general for a while IIRC.

So how do you prefer your team:
>elite
>medium
>horde

and

>themed
>spam
>varied

Personally I have hard time deciding between themed pure Deathwing or varied with Tacticals as core and Ravenwing/Deathwing in Special.

I prefer elite force that matches the fluff, as if the army was taken straight out of the campaign in a rulebook or codex. But list design wise I prefer spam and min/max, which can be horde medium or elite. My army is copied from the Badab War and isn't very spammy or min/maxed.

>elite medium horde

Elite for IG, horde compared to anyone else. I have 20 vets kitted out to the nines with snipers, camo cloaks, autocnanons and plasma. Even have bolters for the sarges.

>themed spam varied

I guess it counts as spam, since I have at least 2 of every weapon, but that's just how IG functions as a codex. I've got em themed as an infiltration force.

I like Balanced and Elite teams. Balanced has a good number without getting too steep in price, and a good spread across multiple factions that can actually do them. Elite teams are easy to paint and model, although it takes some work to figure out how to squeeze models in there as well as toys, and they have some great factions to them.

I like Themed, I suppose, but Spam is also something I like. I don't like tripping over the tools in my arsenal and like consistency across my team, so my Core units end up very uniform while my Special and Leader might deviate for their own specialties. Although I do like a good mix with my Special models.

Elite and Themed for me.

CAN I GET A YO HO FER DA FLASH GITZ AND DERE BELURVED KAPTIN?

I kind of want to get a horde of cultists for a trashy casual game.

And also because I really want the Cultist leader in pic related and not the aspiring champion that comes in the cultist box my FLGS sells

eBay has some good sellers for cultists. Just remember that if you want some heavier weapons, you should pack some CSM proper in there with heavy guns. Cultists act as human shields for the heavies, tarpitting anything that's a threat or standing in their way.

For HoR, has anyone considered making their own Legendary Heroes as hires for a campaign game?

I'm currently considering crunching out an Eldar Bonesinger, basically a Tech-Priest/psyker for Eldar/Dark Eldar/Harlequins who can choose from a few custom psychic powers each battle, fluffed for support but giving choices other than what a Warlock or Far/Spirit/Shadowseer would provide.

Might be what I do since I don't want Dark Angels that comes with the Dark Vengeance box set and the Aspiring Champion looks like it needs some converting to correct pic related, among other shit

Playing by GW KT rules, or HoR?

I have played both and HoR is far superior

GW kill teams is basically just W40k only with 200 point lists that limit some things like no 2+ armour and vehicles over 33 armour (by adding the sides). The real problem with Kill Teams is that the thing they introduce to make it interesting, which is having a leader and a specialist, only gives certain models pre-existing rules such as master crafted and rage. It introduces literally nothing new except for the fact that units dont have to cohere, but everything is basically the same. Not to mention that Kill teams does not try in the slightest to balance OP units, so it is still extremely easy to abuse

TLDR: kill teams is nothing new

HoR on the other hand is fresh. It is highly modified modheim rules, which Im sure the bulk of 40k players have not played. Not only are the rules astronomically better for a skirmish type game that is kill teams, but the creators actually try to balance out the units by introducing their own model lists that you can choose from. They change some of the game breaking rules that are abused by factions such as TAU and NECRONS so that the game is actually fun. HoR actually plays like a skirmish type game

If you play a campaign HoR blows GW out of the water since your surviving units (because they may actually not die and survive to fight on in the next fight) can be upgraded with various abilities and new special rules.
TLDR: do not bother with GW kill teams, just do HoR, its balanced and plays like a skirmish game should.

HoR

1.) absolutely, most ruins cover in HoR is 4+, so by putting your scouts in a ruined building, which you probably will, you are basically giving them space marine armour that cannot be negated by ap 3 weapons.

2.) Pinning is pretty devestating in skirmish games as it slows down the advance of those assault units. If somethign really assaulty is coming your way just pin it so you have time to shoot it with the big guns

3.) atleast a couple that have the ability to zoom around (such as bikes or jump packs). Vehicles are not as much as a threat since they are mostly limited to transports.

4.) read the rules, it explains it in there.

I'm still a fan of some of the wargear options listed in team armories. Kaptin equipment for an Ork Freeboota team, a Power Sword so Tau can make a miniature Farsight leader, enough options in the Dark Eldar armory to make miniature versions of all their lost special characters...

They make the game fun, but are just as easily ignored in favor of standard wargear or other equipment choices. Nothing seems overly game-breaking, usually more situational and thematic, or it offers a good choice for a usually underpowered model.

Bumping.

Kill team box set

What does Veeky Forums think to the main tau vs Black Templars box set?

Good value? Seems a close quarters with space marines and tau would be a slaughter.

Pretty much.

Tau, however, have weapons enough to try and chew up anyone who tries to get in close. Also those new Pulse Blasters are pretty tough close up. And don't discount the Tau's assault phase; it's murder on suits and low model squads, but with a squad of Fire Warriors that's still a bunch of S3 coming at you even at low WS and I, and that's why volume of fire is deadly in 40k.

Hell, there's the occasional greentext of Tau who manage to finish off units in their charge phase, players favoring bold strategies while their marine allies camp objectives in fear for their infantry. Essentially, they're as dangerous as you are aggressive and lucky with them.

Any recomendations for an Iron Hands HoR killteam?

Dark Eldar based on these guy.

Yay or nay?

All of the yay. Creepy DEldar best DEldar.

>Black Templars
>Not knowing what is the Raven Guard

user...

Depends on the faction, but I'm definitely boys over toys. I tend to lean towards melee or shooting, but try to have a few models to shore up weaknesses. Unless I'm playing Guard, in which case I just try and avoid melee at all costs.

Just plug Dark Vengeance Cultist into ebay and you'll get a billion hits.

>orks
just guess

I aways thought it'd be fun to have a warband with Dishonored themes.

>my dear Kor'vo. You've lost another archon.

What is better for GWKT, a 5 man unit of Vanguard or Rangers?

Same builds as a regular KT, I suppose. Well, maybe invest in an Apothecary if the Iron Hand's FnP (6+) stacks with the Narthecium of the Apothecary for added durability.

somewhere between elite and medium. for wargear, priorities are themed then varied.

i run dark angels mostly against tau and 'nids, so i run 5 tacticals w/ combi-plasma and then 5 veterans with storm bolters, melta, and heavy bolter.

I like balanced teams, since they can pull out wins against most things and I try to vary things up a lot. My Skitarii are usually Vanguard and Rangers of varying combinations and maybe a Dragoon, and my Inquisition is a Chimera, some special weapons to hide in it, a couple melee units and the rest of the slots filled with Storm Bolter Flakolytes. Feels like an actual Kill team, especially when they take down hordes of Orks or Deathwatch squads.

Rangers.

Infiltrators.

question lad, is it possible to make a team using just the Imperial Agents supplement?

Might be, although you'd be better off using Codex Inquisition or associated Codex for each faction.

And if HoR, they have their own Codexes.

Like what, one Sister, one Deathwatch Marine and an Inquisitor ?

I object to this image -- tau are great in combat

Rolling to give this thread IWND.

> Close combat game based on a small set of unit.
> box set is Space marines versus Tau
> Tau set don't even have equal point value

What the fuck?

Tau are fucked in melee, generally. Using the Tau assault phase as anything other than a phase to move Jetpack units around is folly. Still, if you play aggressively you might actually get lucky, but don't bank on it, it's more than likely suicide for Tau.

Current team leader I'm working on. Last HoR game I played my list was

Terminator Lord
2 Possessed Marines
5 Marines with one Metla
2 squads of Cultists

A fire line, unlucky rolls, and generally being new and shitty took me out within an hour, but I had fun. Will give up the cultists and some gear for another Possessed and more Marines next game.

should I even bother fielding crisis suits in GW KT or is it something that I cannot do?

Crisis Suits are something you can definitely field, and are pretty powerful in their own right. Just kit them up well and keep them jumping around; their JSJ is more effective in KT than it is in 40k because of the terrain density, cover is everywhere! Plenty of perches to park your rocket pods or plasma rifles, and plenty of ruins to sit your fusions and burst cannons behind.

Stealth Suits are also good because they get 2+ cover practically everywhere.

I just picked this up and honestly it really doesn't go far enough in making 40k a skirmish game.

It's basically just the stardard game with a few caveats on troop choices and squad movement.

Should I just sell it and pick up infinity red vail or check out HOR?

Check out HoR first. You now have a solid start of 2 forces for HoR and you can always use the regular KT missions for it too.

A buddy and I have been talking about modding up Kill Teams to run a Space Hulk survival game.

The idea is to have all of the players fighting eachother as well as randomly spawned mobs from the table. Each room would have a token with either Ork, Nid, or Cultist on the bottom. A token is revealed when an unit enters the room and then the GM rolls on a chart for that type.

We've been thinking of doubling the points to 400, removing the 2+ armor and HQ restriction (no unique characters allowed), and we were thinking of removing the specialist rules.

We used to have games similar to this where anything with ap2 could punch through walls, and if it was an exterior wall it would vent the room, any models without sealed suits would be removed as causalities. Even missed range attacks of ap2 had a chance of breaking the wall. We're planning to leave this out this time as last time we did something like this that rule caused almost 2 full armies to be killed when a Khorn berserker put a plasma shot to the wall on purpose to take out other players.

Wondering if anyone might have suggestions.

God I love this pic.

Not sure about new assasins but Eversor as far as I can remember have potential to almost wipe out full tactical squad, so I understand their fear.
If we talking about rules and home rules, how dose weapons like Ossefactor works?
I was thinking of giving that splash efect a blast marker as radius so it wont be op but have some use with clumped enemies.
>fuck with target terrain within 12" (+cover, -cover, suddenly difficult/dangerous terrain)
>fix vehicle
Great idea.
>target Eldar/Dark Eldar/Harlequin units within 12" gets to reroll a save of their choice, or maybe just armor or invulnerable if not just armor
I think you described Fortune here. Or I remember something old.

Is eavy armour any good? I tried it during recent tourney and it seemed like 80% of stuff just ignores 4+ armour =(

Sounds cool man, you plan to use the Space Hulk faceing rules?

>Wall banging

Interesting but sounds fiddly man.

>ravenwing/deathwing kill team
Too small or did anyone here do it before ?

yeah 4+ ain't nothing

Try some Zone Mortalis rules. It also has rules for resolving vacuum and stuff.

Fortune, yes, a Codex Eldar power.

I've been trying to avoid taking Eldar powers, and generally trying to take ones that cost 1 Warp Charge since these points are so limited in game already. Still, seems like a good start. Technomancy seems like it has what I need, although I'd like the power to have a minor effect on Infantry, too, to encourage it as a choice even in regular games. Reforge seems like just what a Bonesinger needs, but it's just for vehicles even if it's powerful. I could strip it of its IWND and replace it with an infantry effect.

Terrain fuckery falls under Geokinesis, although most Geokinesis powers suck, but I figure I could modify them along the lines I proposed. Landquake seems like a fair representation of this power, but Phase Form seems awesome.

So any opinions on Victory is Vengeance, the Horus Heresy version of Kill Team ?

Never heard of it before.

Well, let's take a look, shall we?

I think those are rules for an event with a short summary of the actual rules. Here's the official thing from one of the books.

Ah, I see.

Seems neat. It makes me want to play a team of mixed Loyalist Emperor's Children and Iron Hands, friends fighting as one to the last even in the face of their own Primarch's treachery and murder.

Might be a bit off topic but I'm looking for a dropship to use as an objective piece for my kill team, anyone know of any good alternatives to the corvus dropship/storm raven?

Arvus Lighter!

Otherwise, find a third-party supplier, there's a few out there.