Warhammer 40k General

Happy Sanguinala!

youtube.com/watch?v=HTJwhS0-Y7U

Both - play War Convo

Makes me wonder what the lore would be like for those pistols if people treated it as worthless as it was on the table top.

Honestly, if any and all pistols were 5 points cheaper to a minimum of 5 points, I'd almost consider taking Plasma Pistols. 20 points to give a Sergeant 2 shots at 12" is a lot easier to swallow than 30 points, especially if you want to do it across multiple squads.

Merry christmas, user. May your victories be grand and your brush never slip when doing fine details.

10 point plasma pistols makes a lot of sense. It's a gun that's half as good as typical plasma, half range and half shots. Take into account the assault advantages for it, and it's a perfect fit at 10 points.

Dark eldar seem fun.

First real time getting into eldar and wanted to build a list before buying models. Would something like this work?

>a lot easier to swallow than 30 points
The problem is a rifle already has 2 shots at 12".

The pistols seemed to be priced in a way assuming you've got some kind of high value melee ability you want to preserve while having a special weapon, the problem being this is almost never true or at least not without spending an extra 15 points on a power weapon.

The only truely good use of these pistols I saw was a BA sargent with two inferno pistols. They allowed him to fire two shots off at 6" which is something he cannot do at all with the rifle version.

I like them.

Harlies/Dark eldar dream team is greatest I think.

Looks like a solid start - good basis for a foot-ish dar army. I'd consider swapping some points out of vypers into war walkers and support batteries

They have the best models out of the whole 40k range.
Have fun breaking them in transit

>no gsc in general image

Gg general sucks.

If- theoretically- Rogue Traders got put back in the game, what would you want?

I think I'd like a rule where everyone (aside from maybe Nids or Daemons) are Battle Brothers. And all sorts of character mods.

It's pretty good, your whole army would fold in assault though

You normally can't take Plasma Rifles on Sergeants and HQs though. Once you get your Plasma Rifle at 15 points, spending another 20 to double your S7 shots at AP 2 is more reasonable. Definitely more reasonable than paying another 30 at any rate!

Back in 5th, Dark Eldar players could make the occasional case for taking a Blast Pistol on their squad leaders too, simply as S8 Lance could occasionally do something. Of course, with Hull Points, nowadays you only ever see them with Haywire Grenades.

Harlequins paying 5 points for their fancy pistols would be nice too (or if they got the option to gunsling: Pistolquins would be an amazing conversion IMO).

He's in ongoing reserves

infiltrators

Maybe less everything being battle brothers, but allies of convenience with everything might work. Then let the Rogue Trader themselves form a really nutty command squad made out of whatever they want.

Here's how I'd change the list

You make sure when you get assaulted it is sacrificial and leaves your opponent available for more shooting. Most good Eldar armies don't include combat elements outside a Wraithknight

>they returned to the shadows

Infiltrators. Ruststalkers are a trap.

Ah yes cheers, Suppose the missile launchers give me anti-air that I was otherwise lacking.

Issue is I can only have a single exarch for my dire avengers as per formation restrictions.

Again cheers for the advice/rework for me!

Battle brothers should be able to embark on each other's transports.

GSC should be battle brothers with nids, comes the apocalypse with daemons and necrons, and allies of convenience everyone else.

Nids should automatically pass look out sir rolls in synapse.

Deep strike should count as movement, but otherwise not prevent charging.

>You make sure when you get assaulted it is sacrificial
Sounds like standard Eldar tactics

And usually, they're not even taking the Wraithknight for combat, but the Forgeworld Skatach one for double-hellstorm action to sweep stuff from cover.

Anyway, why Avengers instead of Spiders? I'd imagine the improved reserves and S6 and hit and run and moving before being shot would matter more than overwatch bonuses.

So after opening the grab bag that is the Tyranids get started box, and here's what I've added to my list what with what else I have. I think I have enough flexibility to take on most things, or that just might be the Flyrants. Suggestions? Criticisms? I'm looking for a little input on how to "git gud" so to speak with the bugs.

For 20 points, maybe, but combi-plasmas are as good as a rifle for one round, for half price.

If you count on sod's law coming in to play and killing your sargent it's better to spend 20 points on on 4 combi-plasma shots.
Not to mention while your sargent may still be able to charge and go kung-fu the plasma rifle cannot so the gunslinger 2ccw bonus is wasted, the pistols have terrible synergy with the rifle.

I'd split the Carnifexs in to two units just so wounds don't spill over from one to the other.

Derp, forgot about that with the exarch, I was actually just thinking about the normal aspect host. Just means you can save some points - buy another avenger or two.

Yeah the Skatach is a beast. Unfortunately my local meta still has a hang up about FW stuff - otherwise I'd be running full Corsairs instead of my counts as Corsairs. Fortunately the regular WK is still bretty gud.

My guess is he is going DAs because they're pretty cheap and plastic. While I do live Spiders they're not cheap dollar wise and the models aren't great.

So gonna ask for recs on how to expand my tau army. Was thinking about getting either some piranhas, a third broadside, or a third devilfish.
An user from the last thread suggested a barracuda or some remora drones, but Im not too keen on fw stuff at my current income level. I don't have a stormsurge, or skyrays.

Infiltrators a shit.

Can Infiltrators kill vehicles? No.
Can Infiltrators easily kill GEQs? Meh.
Can Infiltrators kill MCs? No.
Can Infiltrators kill TEQs? No.

Ruststalkers are deceptively horrifying, especially against armies that can't do melee well. But Infiltrators are kinda overhyped, against Marines they can do well but other than that I wouldn't recommend it, just too expensive. Ruststalkers, however, will give hell to anything once they get into the enemy lines. The only real issue is getting them there, if your opponent is smart then he'll drop a couple S6 guns and wipe your measly T3 Elites off the board. 4+ isn't that useful, either.

Add in the ability to use pistols in melee, too. Do it Smash style.

>a model armed with a pistol can choose to exchange all of their attacks for a single shot with the pistol. If they are armed with two pistols, they can also fire the second pistol, but they can never fire more than twice in any given Assault phase.
>a model armed with a pistol may, instead of firing in the Assault phase, choose to gain a single additional melee attack at base strength, AP -. Note that special rules and wargear on the model itself (such as Furious Charge or wargear that increases the base strength of the model) applies to this, but the modifications of melee weapons (such as the 2x Strength of a Power Fist) do not apply to this attack.

So a slight nerf to high-damage melee units that relied on pistols to get extra TH or PF attacks; a wash for units like Raptors or Assault Marines that hit at [S User AP - ] ; and a buff to pistoleer units like Seraphim or Vanguard Vets, who now get their pistols at only 10 ppm.

Maybe it could be 10 for the first pistol, 5 for the second? That might be too much.

Note that these changes should also accompany revisions to Assault or Assault units in general, making it easier for elite melee units to get into combat without getting totally shot to shit.

>Battle brothers should be able to embark on each other's transports.

Sure.

>GSC should be battle brothers with nids, comes the apocalypse with daemons and necrons, and allies of convenience everyone else.

Nope. Fine how it is.

>Nids should automatically pass look out sir rolls in synapse.

Sure.

>Deep strike should count as movement, but otherwise not prevent charging.

Sure.

>TH or PF

Sorry, mean to say Power Weapon attacks.

So my veteran sargent can pay 15 points for a power axe for two s5 ap2 attacks and I1 or 15 for a plasma pistol for one s7 ap2 attack at I4?

Seems like that wouldn't help balance when power weapons are also as hard to justify as psitols, senpai.

youtube.com/watch?v=lBVxcGxRv_I

Nobody will argue that Ruststalkers aren't melee monsters that can butcher almost anything.

But they'll never make it to melee. Infiltrators have a good punch but are actually somewhat survivable.

Happy Omnissiahmas to you too fellow tech-brother!

Inferno pistols have it even worse. You actually pay MORE for those than for either a melta or a multi-melta.

You're overthinking it.

Just make it so Special Pistols don't count as a CC weapon. And you can shoot it in CC
>Space Marine Sergeant with Plasma Pistol
>2 Attacks + 1 S7 AP2 Gets Hot

What armies have easy access to fearless and atsknf? Space Marines and?

Plasma pistols should be 7 points.

Why:

>meltagun is 10 points
>plasma pistol is strictly worse than a meltagun, besides giving an extra attack, but most models that can take meltaguns don't care or get to keep their pistols anyway
>plasma pistol can kill the wielder
>plasma pistol is somewhat less than half as effective as a plasma gun (1 less shot at 12", and no shots beyond that, while plasma gun can shoot beyond 12")

7 points feels right. it's cheaper than a much better meltagun, and about half the cost of a plasma gun which is slightly more than twice as good.

>b-but then everybody will take them!

yeah, that's the point. to make it a piece of wargear worth taking. and 7 point plasma pistols aren't going to break the game or even be that big of a deal, it's time to let go of the kneejerk idea that things must be overpriced because you're so used to seeing GW make them so. I'm saying this because I've noticed this weird argument, "but then people will field lots of them!" whenever you talk about lowering points costs on things that cost way too much. as if that . . . wasn't the intention in the first place, to make the thing viable instead of a useless piece of crap in the bottom of your bits box. I've taken to calling this line of thinking GW Stockholm Syndrome

Kill Team
10 Scions - 135
1 melta gun - Eagle Eye
1 Grenade Launcher - Infiltrate
1 hotshot lasgun - Relentless

Chimera - 65

200 points

I'm not really sure about the specialists, I don't know what to do with the grenade launcher since I used the only good specialist slot for the melta gun.

Should I replace the chimera with a sentinel so I can take another meltagun? I worry about range and S6 on the grenade launcher should be enough to take a chunk out of vehicles.

-Some versions of Chaos with Traitor Legions
-Tyranids in some respects
-Chaos Demons (or their own unique version of it)

Fearless
-Orks with 10+ model units
-Tyranids with synapse
-Chaos daemons
-Chaos marines armies based around cult troops
-Death company blood angels

ATSKNF
-Marines, all of them.

Someone doesn't like re-group tests.

Can anyone post a more direct link to Path of the Renegade

Help me out, /40kg/.

I vaguely remember all flyers losing deep strike per 7th edition rules, but I can't find any evidence of that.

If not, wouldn't flyers crash and burn upon arrival due to moving less than 18"?

Let me try:
>Unwieldy reduces Initiative by 1, instead of to 1. Only in melee, doesn't effect Initiative Tests.

Now Unwieldy Power Weapons have kind of a point. They strike slower but not last in the Initiative order, allowing less durable models to strike at least at the same time as their less speedy opponents.

>Pistols as CCWs: A model armed with a Pistol-type weapon may exchange one of their attacks for a single attack at the pistol's base weapon profile (Gets Hot! still applies), unaffected by the models melee special rules (Furious Charge, etc.). This attack is resolved as a melee attack (cover saves may not be taken at such point-blank range!) using the model's WS instead of BS and striking at the model's own initiative value.
>Extra attacks such as those granted by Hammer of Wrath or some wargear (like Dataspike) may not be exchanged, these aren't attacks generated from the model's attack value.
>A model armed with two or more Pistol type weapons may elect to exchange one attack for each Pistol weapon they have up to two, much like the Gunslinger rule.

I could probably word it and balance better. Basically, a Plasma Pistol gets you a single S7 AP2 attack in melee, though you still have to contend with Gets Hot!, but it's certainly not nothing. Now any lowly sergeant can put a hole in something much bigger with a well-placed shot in melee. Suddenly that Plasma Pistol shot can put a solid punch in something much larger, making them good ways to deter charges or assaults.

When deep striking flyers count as having moved their mandatory 18" but are henceforth subject to the standard rules for movement, so you have to be careful about what direction you're facing

Anons, can Iron Warriors take Daemon Princes? I heard that their new legion rule state that none of their units can take marks, which makes me sad, because I liked the idea of Khornate Iron Warriors.

Of those, the main ones that concern me are space Marines and their chaos counterparts.

What's the best way for dark eldar to deal with sm and csm?

Death by a thousand cuts.

Take out enemy rhinos/fast vehicles and then use your mobility to pick away at and kite them.

Manoeuvre warfare is some of the deadliest out there and by using it you are playing to your strength and marines weakness.

drop warriors and barbed stranglers are worthless
give terms some devourers
1 unit of hive guard
carnifexes are better with TL devourers

>nons, can Iron Warriors take Daemon Princes?
Yes. When shoved into a weapon or tonk. Only their dad remains unshovable.

...

#
I always hear people say TS are overcosted, but I can't understand why.
How much should a fearless 3+/4++ model with ap 3 bolters cost then? Because such stats costs the same or more in pretty much every other codex.

Don't daemon princes have daemon of and not mark of?

It depends on their set up and how competitive the list you are playing is. Ultimately against an opponent of similar skill you are going to lose more games than not against a Space Marine army.

I understand that, I'm as,ing how much they should cost. Because right now they're in line with most every other dex

I have an excess of Warriors and just want to get some use out of them, the venom cannon didn't look as enticing being small blast and also BS3 as large blast pinning BS3 Barbed
Strangler.
Will need to buy more gants for that.
I bought 2 units and played a game with them today, they missed more than half of their shots. Maybe that'll even out in more games.
The devourers in the Carny box went to make the Flyrants. Also crushing claw adrenal glands looked like a good extra source of overkill for AT and melee in general, the price would be the same either way.

But I'm Chaos and I'm supposed to be unstoppable and better than everyone! The codex says I'm gonna win eventually no matter what

As a muslim, this offends me.

All legions can still take Daemon Princes. Daemon Princes don't take marks, they have the daemon of rule instead. Traitor Legions even says that IW, AL, and NL Daemon Princes may choose to take all of their psychic powers from their god's discipline rather than up to half of their powers.

Don't forget about all the fearless that Dark Angels get

...

What winder holidays do your people celebrate?

So?

As a non sandnegro , this offends me.

Dang.

Now I feel even worse for having bought KdK.

What do I lose out on for going KdK and not IW Traitor Legions? What do I gain for going KdK?

As a serbian, the fact that kebab like you has not been removed offends me

do the Biologis of the AdMech hold any real veneration for the organic machenery of the human body? Would they perhapse be closer to the emperor himself then the omnissiah?

>using khorne daemonkin codex to play iron warriors

what did he mean by this

>In Soviet serbia, Muslim offend you

It depends what you are fighting. Vs grav, plasma, or other low AP weapons rubrics are totally worth it. Vs shoota boys or guardsmen they are essentially 23 point tac marines.

A 4+ invuln doesn't make you any more durable vs high AP small arms fire. Fearless is universally good, yes. And AP 3 bolters are wasted on anything with an armor save worse than a 4+.

If your meta is power armored grav spam, then holy shit your rubrics will be great. If you play vs Orks you have pretty much nothing that you gained for all those points, except for a ML1 sorcerer who must roll on the discipline of skub table.

But they do that regardless of nation

>not liking the idea of a warband of blood crazed IW, wishing to tear apart metal boxes and fortifications and getting all the stronger for it
I thought it was a cool idea.

Also I love maulerfiends

>What do I lose out on for going KdK and not IW Traitor Legions?
Tanks with improved abilities (Soulgrinders are still better though), Sorcerers, Obliteratlors as troops. Honestly not much.

>What do I gain for going KdK?
Flesh Hounds, fun but reliable gameplay mechanics, Flesh Hounds, Soulgrinders and a Flesh Hounds.

They may sometimes hold the heretical view that human biology is on-par to metal bionics, and sometimes better, for any number of reasons. They might work on giving servitors or their own flesh many organic enhancements towards that end, and possibly even extending these enhancements to servitors or many beasts of burden the Imperium might use, be they of Terran or xenos origin. They see organic biology as just another machine to be enhanced, which is bordering deviation from the precept that the human form is holy and not to be deviated from. Still, one could argue they hold perhaps the highest or lowest veneration of the human form, either because they consider it worthy study or because they defile it with organic enhancements.

They're definitely distrusted, but indisputably necessary for the AdMech, because they're the biological scientists that make sure cybernetics and bionics work and are implanted correctly, are experts as synthesizing flesh for grafts, servitors, and experiments, and otherwise running all the biological sciences of the AdMech. They're even in charge of testing and evaluating Space Marine geneseed tithes for purity, and ensuring the purity of those stocks held in stasis.

>Soviet serbia
>not just saying yugoslavia
Top pleb

>sisters are S3
>pay 15pts for plasma pistol because it's a ccw
>ccw is worthless
>metlas are 10pts
>inferno pistols are 30pt pairs
>half range and worthless ccw

Very interesting, I'm working on some.... edge skirting ad mech, still loyal but on the radical end of things

5 point plasma pistols won't break the game

As it stands the Melta is better value than the plasma gun. You can fire a Melta and still assault, the Melta also has higher chance of killing a vehicle.

Melta should be 15, plasma 10, plasma pistol 5 and flamer free

Get a volley gun in there and make that relentless. Mmmmm 4 shots at str 4 AP3 on the move.
*Sounds of holy-orgasm in the background *

It's balanced to tabletop equivalent if you do nothing but overcharge

Merry Christmas Anons! I got $150 and some nice jeans, because today is my birthday.

I was wondering, what is better anti-air for Space Marines, two Hunters or two Stormtalons?

Using TL to play IW will not allow any of your marines to take MoK at all. You get 6+ fnp, you get a special list of warlord traits and relics, you turbo-hate Imperial Fists, your special detachment has a spot for a fortification, you can reroll ordinance weapons and obliterators are troops in a CAD. I think that's about it.

If you want Khorne IW, maybe just stick with KDK and maximize your HS slots for optimum destruction.

Do it user

Radical is fine, there's a lot of factions out there that strain Imperial tolerance (Black Dragons, for example), but so long as they don't go Full Heretic, revel in mutation, and start worshipping dark gods or practicing forbidden alchemy, they're probably fine. Still, those on the edge usually suffer for it.

I can imagine they'd make as much use of bionics as they would organic enhancement, even the Biologis are still all about machines since much of their organic science has to use machines to functions. But when it comes to servitors they might be more prone to giving them huge, hulking muscles over powerlifter arms and legs, armoring them in chitinous scales rather than ceramite.

Allies of Convenience with everyone (come the apocalypse with nids and demons), very character-centric like Inquisition, can be upgraded to be Battle brothers with up to one faction for a price