/swg/: Star Destroyer Edition

...

In Legends the Kaminoans rebelled against the Empire and started making clones to fight them so the Emperor didn't want all his troops from one source. I think in nucanon it's less defined but is basically that the clones got old and training stormtrooper recruits is cheaper

For Canon, they're extremely expensive. It's much cheaper to recruit/conscript and give them a few weeks training. Their weapons and armor is significantly less expensive compared to Phase 2.

Wait, are imperial storm troopers allowed the same individuality as their clone predecessors? I always got the sense that they were supposed to seem like faceless swarms of the same armor. Precise, clean, tidy. Never giving their enemies clear indicators that they killed a single key individual.

Sure, there are armor differences depending on rank and squad, but even then you're still playing an elaborate shell game if you're going after a specific trooper

>Empire is a practically a command economy
>Clones cost too much

Wut.

they should had kept these guys, unless Death Troopers are the empire's version of them

Compared to everything else that needed done to turn the republic into an empire, the cost of an orchestrated civil war, the cost of new naval ships, armor, weapons, and massive murder station, its cheaper to only have to pay to feed soldiers than it is to grow your own

>What are TIE fighters

They aren't. From the looks of the file name they are making that fellow out to be a special forces trooper, rather like the US special forces doing what they want.

Suicidal space shuttlecocks

I mean, compared to the size of the Galactic Empire, and compared to the cost of losing the civil war in the end due in part to the shittiness of the Stormtroopers. I think if I had been Sheev, I'd have kept the clones.

>"I would've gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling protagonists!"

Enjoy the CFE.

Considering the Clones were nearly bankrupting the Republic army, they would be too expensive to maintain. Also, the Empire was not fighting a droid army anymore, the Stormtroopers were meant to keep peace on pacified worlds. In Legends and Canon, the Empire is putting all the good money to battleships, dreadnoughts and super weapons.

Tbh familam I think I preferred the A180 Jyn used. It looked like it might be a Space Luger or Browning Hi-Power, and that's cool.

No one was prepared to fight another major war. Palpatine was pretty confident that the Deathstar and legions of Star Destroyers, Executors, Secutors, Qaz, Praetors and Mandators would instill fear and keep the peace. He wasn't counting on a Skywalker backed Rebellion fighting him.

Without Luke at Yavin, the Rebellion would have failed and Palpatine would've won. He didn't need Clones until then.

It's a luger with a barrel sleeve and the same kinda "Plug it into a rifle part" tech as the CFE.

Yeah it's pretty ballin. I remember some shorter versions of Leia's pistol based on a Beretta or something that wear super neato.

>Without Luke at Yavin, the Rebellion would have failed and Palpatine would've won.

Eh, I've always viewed all that talk by Tarkin and Vader about ending the rebellion to be gross overconfidence that was only made irrelevant by the even grosser overconfidence in the Death Star's invulnerability.

Sure, making it seem that the rebellion itself is on the line in the final act of ANH is good and fine to add drama to that first movie, but when you take into account the later movies and expanded universe it's an idea that doesn't hold up. First off, the forces seen at Yavin are way too small to represent a significant part of the Rebel Alliance, even taking into account the fact that the rebels are supposed to be David to the Empire's Goliath. Second, we know that the prominent leaders of the rebellion weren't at Yavin either meaning that its destruction wouldn't have cut the head off of anything.

Now granted, if Luke hadn't destroyed the Death Star at Yavin it would have been free to continue targetting defiant worlds and could have potentially crushed the rebellion that way (although even then I don't see it dying entirely; history has shown that tyranny has rarely if ever been able to completely stamp out the flame of liberty indefinitely) but that would still just make Yavin one in a series of cuts that began with Alderaan.

Haven't touched the RP community since before FFG's system dropped. How has recent media been handled by the RPers? Anyone doing Legends shit or are we all on the Rebellion bandwagon?

I was under the impression that Death Troopers were just Krennic's personal guard. Does the visual guide or the novel say different?

I use a mix of legends and nucanon stuff and usually set my games during the OT. I also use TFU and forces of corruption elements, including Rahm Kota as Lahey from Trailer Park boys

>Rahm Kota as Lahey from Trailer Park boys
I kek'd.
Anyone here actually run Saga Ed.? Haven't seen it in threads I've lurked other than nodded at in the OP.

A mix of both, but heavily on the nucanon train

The FFG RPG is a weird mix of canon and legends, they borrow elements from both rather than sticking strictly to one.

I used to run it but once FFG came out I never looked back. It's very unbalanced in favor of force users and has a ton of trap options. So basically d20. If you really like d20 you will probably like it, but I would highly suggest at least trying FFG it's a really fun system

>It's very unbalanced in favor of force users and has a ton of trap options
I never noticed much of an unbalance given equity of talent trees contrasted against having to burn feats for force powers, though Scout and Rogue can skew towards weak compared against Soldier or Noble.

I like FFG's systems, I just don't think I wanna play it. Something that granular combined with the inherent lethality *seems* more tedious than I'd prefer, and I like playing out in the uncharted waters of the timeline so I don't have to worry about 'muh canon'.

I mean, if someone can sell me on it, I'm all ears. As mentioned I do dig FFG's approach to games.

Cool except he's straight up holding an AR-15. I get that Star-Wars blasters are all weirded up real-world firearms, but at least have a shorter mag in or put the scope upside or something.

If FFG is too granular for you, Saga edition is going to be ten times worse.

Hell, your options are pretty much just story games if you can't handle the tiny amount of detail in FFG SW.

I think he means the small numbers form big grains, vs Saga's bigger numbers smaller grains.

Its actually surprisingly hard to kill PC's, you can put them on the deck with stun damage and going under hit points, but for the most part they tend to bounce back eventually unless there's a monster critical hit involved.
In terms of 'power!' the players are a lot more on that human scale of abilities and to some extent, realism compared to the superhero shit that happens in D20 once they get to about level 9-10 and pick up a metric ton of feats that lets them walk through crazy amounts of shit.

As a GM though, its just so much easier to run.

Anyone tried Destiny yet? Anythoughts?

Personally I feel the dice+cards make the game to luck dependent. That and just how many different symbols the dice have you are at a 1/6 chance to get what you really want. Thematically it is really cool, being a character brawl and what not.

This, to a certain extent. Smaller page count on core, among other things.

I like FFG systems, again, I just haven't been in the mood for 'em lately.

>As a GM though, its just so much easier to run.
Elaborate on this. You just talking basic problems with CR or something deeper. Any fan materials deal with opening the scope up a bit?

You don't really need much to open the scope, honestly?

Most of the classes, gear, etc are incredibly vague. There's no reason laminate armour in the GCW can't be laminate armour in the Old Republic, same with the generic blaster stats and etc.

The only issues you'd really have would be with ship stats, which are easy to make up.

According to the Wook they were used as guards and operatives throughout the entire Tarkin Initiative.

So wherever there is advanced weapons research or high-ranking personnel involved in said research you can probably find them.

>Elaborate on this.

>Offload the majority of the dice rolling and incentive to players
>Its extremely quick to make up NPC's/vehicles/weapons etc
>Prep-time is in a couple of hours max for 8hrs play
>Focus on making stories and not just building combat encounters
>No need for miniatures, grids, graphs and shit
>Extremely easy to ad-hoc and make things up on the spot to suit

You can make up an entire settings overview worth of factions, military forces and special characters particular to an era in about a week.
It is a specific role playing game system from the get go, not a miniatures, board or wargame that been fiddled into making it an RPG.

New tie interceptor title what do you guys think?

Tie Interceptor only, title
At the start of combat phase, assign 1 focus token.
When you would receive a stress token roll an attack die. On a hit or crit result, do not receive that token.
2points

wanted to get feed back and another view point on this card.

Makes VI Carnor really damn good. Also helps Turr quite a bit as well. The others, are probably not worth mentioning. Might be interesting on VI Royal guard for 27 points.

I'm not a huge fan of abilities that require rolling dice to work, but that's personal preference. Honestly the free focus for two points is probably enough.

Though I understand you're trying to make it not amazing on Soontir, taking away his stealth device is enough of a drawback I think. Would let four dice attacks have a decent chance of hitting.

I run a game of it for a few friends, so far it's been rather fun. Only d20 game I like. The talent trees system is nice. Love the condition track mechanic. Wouldn't mind talking more about the game, I suppose.

Not just the Tarkin Initiative, but ANY sensitive operation or individual operative in the Empire.

They're the royal guards of Imperial Intelligence.

Am I the only one that wishes for say a star wars ground combat game akin to dropzone commander? Have imperial, scum, and rebel and rebel factions. Get unique ground vehicles say an ACE black AT-AT or someshit for the empire.

God it'd be badass. Get some interplay from all of FFG'S other star wars games too. Say you have a side board of armada? Drop a large template down on the board to help out your team mate or yourself. Have x-wing players establish air supeority and also make ground attack runs.

Forgive me Veeky Forums for spring just think it'd be a cool idea.

Who's this guy?

Yavin WAS where one of their most important facilities though. The elite of their entire starfighter corps was stationed there, and their starfighter corps was the heart of the Alliance.

Legends material at least implies that once Yavin was forced to be abandoned after New Hope and Echo Base was lost in Empire, the Rebel Fleet was the only significant military asset left under direct Rebel military control (excluding things which belonged officially to Rebel-allied free systems like the Mon Calamari Shipyards). Yeah, Mon Mothma and the political leadership are fine, but when you can't maintain a centralized military command because every time you established a base of operations it gets roasted, you're going to have a hard time keeping a unified Rebel movement under your control. If Yavin had been lost its entirely possible the Alliance would have crumbled into a thousand independent Rebel movements once again.

Of course, that might have given Garm another bite at the proverbial apple, but odds are it would have taken decades if ever to rally another unified galactic Rebellion if the first one disintegrated and the Death Star was running around unchecked.

So, were they droids like the Darktroopers they're obviously based on? Cause they seemed to only communicate through beeps and boops in R1.

Also, are Darktroopers still canon? Cause I always liked them.

>So, were they droids like the Darktroopers they're obviously based on?
Nope, but I'm told they're cyber-augmented.

>Cause they seemed to only communicate through beeps and boops in R1.
Scrambled comms, user. Automatically decrypted by the comms of team-mates on the same circuit, but all but unbreakable on the battlefield.

So, are you thinking like Imperials specialize in Heavy Armor but have shitty basic troops, Scum have the best Elite Troops and mobility options to represent an "Army of Boba Fetts," angle, and Rebels have the best Air Support? Thats the traditional setup

>Army of Boba Fetts

What are you talking about? Most of a scum army would be random thugs, smugglers and criminals. Or average quality mercenaries on par with rebel troopers.

Stormtroopers have better training and armour that at least somewhat resists weapons, they are going to be outright superior. Any time they are not being ambushed or fighting a main character they tend to slaughter their opponents in the films.

Didn't they address this in an Elseworlds Star Wars series?

I would increase the point cost to 3 and remove the stress part, just look at expertise in comparison since they both fo pretty much the same thing: expertise is worse sinve it gives a focus you can't used while stressed and can only use while attacking, also it costs more. In the end i don't think the TIE/In needs a title to fix it, it's still a very relevant and powerful ship.

Absolutely wrong. Read Star Wars: Bloodlines. In there its stated that the Empire is 100% gone. No remnants, nor anything other than the First Order and the Centrist Senators within the New Republic.

Stop trying to justify Nu-Canon's stupidity. Jesus Christ, I'm willing to bet by the time Episode 8 rolls around you people are going to go 't-he New Republic isn't all dead and conquered by the First Order even though it hasn't been mentioned at all other than being defeated by them, t-the old Imperial Remnant's still around g-guys!'. Pathetic.

Yet there were mentions of a more general non First-Order remnant in the Visual dictionary for TFA And Pablo manages the Visual Dictonaries directly. Bloodlines is probably from a fairly restricted point of view.

>'t-he New Republic isn't all dead and conquered by the First Order even though it hasn't been mentioned at all other than being defeated by them,
Yet Pablo has teased the T-85 X-Wing as looking totally new and different, despite the fact it likely won't be seen much.

Why did Tarkin destroyed the Scarif base at the end of Rogue One ?
From what I understood, its contents were rather precious, and while the situation on ground was a clusterfuck, by the end it was mostly under control...

>Yet there were mentions of a more general non First-Order remnant in the Visual dictionary for TFA And Pablo manages the Visual Dictonaries directly. Bloodlines is probably from a fairly restricted point of view.
I know what you're talking about. That remnant eventually joins the New Republic and composes a majority of the Centrist Party. Later on it secedes and joins the First Order.

>Yet Pablo has teased the T-85 X-Wing as looking totally new and different, despite the fact it likely won't be seen much.
NR Military remnants join the Resistance. Easy.

Stormtroopers are the Waffen SS, Death Troopers are the 1st SS, security and protection for high value targets and.

I know nobody plays Armada, but does anyone else know what the unspoiled cards for the Arquitens are?

They've all been spoiled on the FFG forum for about a week or so now.

community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/237035-all-the-new-cards-you-want-to-see-right-here/

>Star Wars: Bloodlines

Wookipedia cites several sources, including Bloodlines, which say that Imperial remnants, warlord factions and lone wolf star systems claiming Imperial lineage for their governments existed for all the years between the Concordance and TFA, with few if any of them having ties to the First Order or the Centrist movement. Maybe you're just looking for reasons to hate NUCANON so you're extrapolating out absurd conclusions because they justify your blind rage?

In Legends canon Coruscant fell to the New Republic in 2.5 years, truncating that to one year by making the fragmentation of the remaining government and military much bigger and faster is hardly a huge departure, and that accelerated fragmentation leading to less power and less centralization among the surviving fragments leaving no room for a true Imperial Remnant or other successor state makes plenty of sense. I prefer the old version but your complaints about the new version sound like Youtube Vlog Screed.

Tying up loose ends.

Also so he can be the only guy with a giant disco ball

>Wookipedia cites several sources, including Bloodlines, which say that Imperial remnants, warlord factions and lone wolf star systems claiming Imperial lineage for their governments existed for all the years between the Concordance and TFA, with few if any of them having ties to the First Order or the Centrist movement. Maybe you're just looking for reasons to hate NUCANON so you're extrapolating out absurd conclusions because they justify your blind rage?
Actually read the book before you say bullshit, but okay. We can wait for Episode 8 before you and other hopeless optimists eat your words.

Here you go, user, two title cards, both on the right.

Hand of Justice seems like a really nice support title that works great with just about any ship (double scatter Gozantis, double bracing ISDs, giving a Needa TRC Arq another reroll, give Vader another token to spend for a reroll, just to name a few ideas).

Centicore is simply just a father reaching Relay 2, except on an Arquitens. Could be useful for getting isolated squadrons back into the fight, or possibly be a Lambda pusher to give them the ability to have a further reach. That said, I don't think these ships should be in the thick of it, but the option is there.

The fucking First Order exists only in the unknown regions and the Centrists only rose to power 6 years before TFA. Even if there are no Remnants left by bloodlines, that book takes place two decades after Endor, and if every one of them either joined the First Order or the Centrists that means they were around for almost 15 years, which is how long it took in Legends for the Imperial Remnant to make peace with the New Republic. What are you even complaining about?

If Bloodlines says there was no Remnants AT ALL after the Concordence was signed and the Battle of Jakku was lost, then the book is wrong. The Concordance specifically pens all remaining Imperial held planets into Ghetto Space where they can't train Stormtroopers and have to pay the New Republic reparations. Why the fuck would the treaty stipulate that if no remnants exist? I know its a radical idea that an EU book might get some details incorrect since that NEVER happened with the old books, but maybe you should consider the possibility.

Woops, forgot pic.

Bloodlines isn't EU. It's on the same level as the movies. That's the point of nu-canon, there is no extended material. Its all one material. And no, the book can't be wrong because Nu-Canon is 100% one line of events. There is no wiggle room.

So your argument is "These two pieces of information in this unbroken, no-wiggle-room new continuity are obviously contradictory, so I'm going to ignore that contradiction and instead only take the strictest possible interpretation of the information which makes less sense between the two and pretend the other information doesn't exist."

Solid stance.

It isn't contradictory. The surrendered Empire eventually loses ground to the New Republic. It diplomatically gets annexed and joins the New Republic as individual worlds. This is noted to have happened in the first short years after the Concordance. The First Order exists in the Unknown Regions and goes public when NR Centrist systems secede and join it. Why would they join the First Order if there's another Empire hanging around that's moderate and not ran by insane fanatics?

Your canon's dead son, accept it.

Autism mixed with bitter pettiness and petty bitterness make for one hell of a cocktail.

Youtube Blog ADMIRAL Screed?

I personally don't like it since the Coruscant fall was also accompanied with the apparent loss of ALL remaining Executor-Class ships.

>Why would they join the First Order if there's another Empire hanging around that's moderate and not ran by insane fanatics?

Because this is Star Wars so the evil politicians who want to use terrorism and assassination to revive fascism are going to join the extremists rather than the neutered moderates in their space ghettos?

Nearly all the notable Imperial remnants would have already joined/founded the First Order in the Unknown Regions to escape the NR from realizing they're armed. Anything left over would be Imperial sympathizers like the Centrists or other toothless survivors of the GCW. The First Order would be the only real heavily militarized force though. Nothing except political fuckery or hiring proxy groups (as you see in Bloodline) would have survived outside of the Unknown Regions.

It's a better strategy than having everyone disorganized. Though I'm sure there were some Imperial fuckheads after Jakku who tried to "fight" the NR but got slapped down fast. That makes a better case for the FO as well, since it makes the NR complacent and shows that a unified and secret effort is the better way. It's also why I'm fine with keeping the TIEs the same. Even the Star Wars universe has nostalgia, and the look of a TIE sends that feeling to worlds who do miss the Empire.

I wish they hadn't kept the big target solar panels and had made them angled like the Interceptor/Advanced even for the basic model.

The black paint job and the tail gunner and other advancements were all neato though. Felt like a real attempt to update an inferior design to hold its ground without giving up the symbolism it represented.

Finally words of truth instead of hopeless optimism: 'yeah we can have all our canons in one big hunky dory mashup. weow'

You can have them, in headcanons and alternate universes, but its pure fact that the First Order is the only surviving Imperial faction in nu-canon.

>keeping the TIEs the same

There is nothing wrong with TIE Fighters. They benefit greatly from veteran pilots who know how to use their strengths and weaknesses, and as we've seen time and again, it isn't the craft thats to blame, its the inferior tactics and inferior pilots that make TIE's so terrible.

First Order TIE's are improved without ruining whats already great about TIE fighters
>easy to make
>cheap to produce
>very fast
>very agile
>well armed

So what do you imagine happened on all those planets in the Mid-Rim and Expansion Regions the Concordance designated as Imperial territory in the fifteen years between the Concordance and the rise of the Centrists as a political party, or for that matter then ten years between Bloodlines and Force Awakens? Did the Imperials put up cardboard cutouts at their windows and pillows under their sheets so the Republic wouldn't notice they were gone to the Unknown Regions?

We know for a fact that the New Republic does not have all of the territory of either the Old Republic or Empire under its umbrella. We know that by Force Awakens the First Order is STILL a fringe movement out in nowhere land, which means in the ten years between Bloodlines and TFA the Centrists still have not seceded. I mean, how many dots do I have to connect here? They may be weak, nearly powerless, nearly disarmed and completely fragmented, but Imperial remnants in the central parts of the galaxy HAVE to still exist, which means if Bloodlines says they don't, or worse that they ceased to exist entirely within a year of Endor, then the book has to be mistaken. Use some basic fucking logic.

Well, the ease of their target profile thanks to their panels is a pretty huge weakness of the craft itself. There's a reason that the basic TIE was in the process of being phased out in favor of the Int as the backbone fighter of the Navy. The Empire just didn't survive long enough to finish the transition.

There are other powers mentioned, which include Hutt Space and the Corporate Sector.

> Did the Imperials put up cardboard cutouts at their windows and pillows under their sheets so the Republic wouldn't notice they were gone to the Unknown Regions?
No, the ones that stayed directly joined the New Republic. It's stated so in Bloodlines.

>which means if Bloodlines says they don't, or worse that they ceased to exist entirely within a year of Endor, then the book has to be mistaken. Use some basic fucking logic.
But logic doesn't matter here. Yeah, nu-canon isn't logical because it makes the Empire fall within a single year, but it's also canon that that's what happens. It's fucking stated in a book that's CONFIRMED by the Story Group to be on the same level of importance as the PT, OT, TCW, Rebels and Sequels.

That can be overcome by rolling to change your profile

Ask yourself, are jango fett clones really useful for their cost or were they fighting against the one enemy they were insanely well placed to fight, droids.

Anyway, the empire still uses cloning but to a much more limited amount.

>But logic doesn't matter here. Yeah, nu-canon isn't logical because it makes the Empire fall within a single year, but it's also canon that that's what happens.

This is your problem. You're assuming laziness and stupidity because you want that to be the case. I'm not citing any evidence in my points that are outside the nucanon material, I'm making safe and logical assumptions to fill in the holes, which is what people did with the old canon for decades.

You act like the original movies are completely devoid of world building gaffs or plotholes. They got filled in by a little critical thinking and time because people weren't making it their mission in life to declare the franchised ruined every time they found one. You don't want to fill in the holes, you want to plant a flag in the holes so everyone can see them and everyone will agree with your bitter view that New Things Are Always Bad.

Yes, the statement that all Imperial Remnants were gone within a year of Endor at the same time as Jakku/Concordance is an absurd statement. We can either assume STAR WARS IS RUINED BY THIS GAFF or we can accept that its a partially inaccurate statement and move on, thinking logically about what the probable reality is. I prefer the option that isn't the mark of a total dickweed.

If your only concern is 1 on 1 dogfighting, sure. At the strategic level is can only be seen as an objective design flaw, one which was corrected by the changes to the panel designs for the Advance, Bomber, Defender, Interceptor and many other TIE variants.

Also I don't know if I would agree with that "heavily armed," note from your earlier post. The basic TIE has by far the weakest armament of any of its peers. One-directional and only two emitters with no alternative fire options or secondary armaments? Weak sauce, even compared with the A-Wing and other lightly armed fighters.

>"heavily armed,"

I said Well Armed, and in this case, I was referring to the TIE\fo, which apparently has paired medium laser cannons, fore and aft, along with missiles and something called "mag pulses" (which the wook doesn't list for some reason) - It apparently also has Shields (according to the wook, and the VD)

You're sure you're not talking about the TIE/sf, user?

>TIE/sf

Whoops, I am actually.

Ah, sorry, I thought you were only referring to the basic Imperial era TIE. Agreed that the weapon upgrades to the First Order model are significant and make it a serious contender. I stand by the complant about those big bull's-eyes it keeps on its wingtips though

But even baseline TIE\fo's are listed with shields, so there is that, even if they don't have the extra guns,

Which honestly doesn't matter much, because the First Order put all the time and effort to make their army into slightly shinier mooks that lost to a thirty ship squadron which they outnumbered four to one, even with ground support.

>I stand by the complant about those big bull's-eyes it keeps on its wingtips though

Its a mark against it, but no starfighter is perfect. Interceptors are considerably better, at a higher cost in production and pilot training, which is why they never did completely replace the baseline TIE.

The TIE is almost completely analogous to the A6M2 Zero, specifically the early Naval models before the need to address their issues became apparent - maybe even closer to the early model Ki-43's instead

>maybe even closer to the early model Ki-43's instead

Totally. Those didn't even have cannon, they just had Hirohito's patented 7mms.

They did have layered rubber sealing fuel tanks, which is something Zero's didn't have, but if War Thunder is anything to go on, it didn't stop the things from sucking bullets and harsh language into the engine and converting it to fire.

But I digress.

One of the most telling aspects of the TIE being a genuinely good Starfighter is that veteran pilots tend to get the most out of them, and do really well even against more advanced starfighters - notably examples are anytime in the books where Wedge, Tycho, etc, gets into a TIE and tends to fly circles around people without as much flying skill.

Pretty amazing that the Ki-43s were so succesful with such a pitiful armament. I mean damn

What about SSD Reaper?