What does Veeky Forums think of cyberpunk 2020?

So what exactly is wrong with it systematically?

If it's outright broken is there any similar kind of game, I'm looking for something that's close to the deus ex universe, cybernetics, robots, near future shit but not particularly sci-fi or post apocalyptic.

It's fun, combat is crazy, slather yourself in armor, expect to buy new kneecaps often. Also augmentation is not about getting alot of augments but about gettig the ones you need for your specialization.

It's basically the best 80's action movie simulator ever made

The "problem" with Cyberpunk is, that it was built on the thematics of the 80s and 90s. Pollution, new sicknesses cropping up all over the place, increasing militarization, an insane economic machine that suddenly elevated some to great heights, but buried most others, the transformation of the middle class into figurative wage slaves, weird sects cropping up and redescovering spirituality and of course the far east appearing on the stage of the western world and starting to influence it.

This stuff happened and we are used to it. Reforming Cyberpunk would be pretty easy, you'd just need to look at themes and things moving the world and pop culture right now and and build from there. Widespread accessability of information, Post Truth Society where people willfully ignore any nuance in favor of joining one of two camps, political parties where any distinction is just superficial, the creation of a new "far" right as a response to the twisted mis-, and overuse of "left" ideals, immigration and refugees, the challenge it poses to western ideals, the apathy and self-absorbedness and that's just from the top of my hat. Come up with these themes, spin them to the extreme and you have Cyberpunk.

I just finished Technobabylon last night. That game was fucking great and really showed that Cyberpunk has some life left in it.

Not that user but just taking that and running with it, taking current issues and cranking them up to 11.

Social media access is ubiquitous and constant, feeding people information 24 hours a day, even while they sleep via, neural implants. People are led to believe that there are two (or more) sides, but in reality there is only one major political force in the world: The Party. Just ripping this almost straight out of 1984, but The Party convinces everyone that they are members of the party of freedom, morals, compassion, and justice or whatever and a spectral other party known as the Bogles (which is supposedly larger and more powerful than The Party) is constantly threatening and oppressing the people. When The Party needs or wants to enact something it knows will be unpopular then The Bogles are responsible for it, and of course every basic shred of human decency still afforded to the general people is thanks to the tireless efforts of The Party.

Spoken language becomes a social faux pas, like a mildly racist joke. Most businesses are actually run by AI, but humans still staff them in "human dignity" roles doing things like greeting or customer service (all on social media, of course). The only other jobs are in massive (think 10k people in a room) cubicle farms managing The Party's massive social, political, and economic machine.

Perhaps paradoxically, a small contingent of people have begun self-identifying themselves as Bogles as a reaction to the strictures of The Party. They are into everything The Party despises including every flavor of antisocial behavior (theft, violence, rape, murder, terrorism, you name it). At some level they do this willingly, but The Party also gives them just enough encouragement, space, and sometimes even material support to make them look a million times more threatening and omni-present on social media.

Sounds like a cool setting and I'd read a book about it, but what would PCs do in it?

In CP2020, PCs are cyberpunks because they still give a shit, in the face of dehumanization, rampant capitalism and environmental disaster. They are romantic, larger than life figures seeking to make their mark in history - at least, in the game as written. (The game as played, of course, was sci-fi dungeon crawls through Sense/Net renamed over and over. But that's another subject)

I can second this opinion. The setting, feel and style is superb but actually playing the game? It's a bit too tedious.

CP2020 is the best cyberpunk game around, flavor-wise. The mechanics aren't really up to date. My main criticism is the class-based system. I also recommend to scale down the armor value of armored clothing and skinweave. Otherwise, it's really simple. I DMd it a lot in conventions.

Don't be a faggot. The system is very simple and straight forward. You basically always compare stat+skill+1d10 to a TN and that's it.

I never had a player who gave a fuck about corporations or whatnot. Their motivations have always been money, or revenge (whenever they got fucked over by some corporation or crime syndicate).

Some people get annoyed that the dedicated combatants blow everyone else out of the water in combat, but it should be remembered that the system is lethal as fuck. It takes 8 damage to destroy a limb, and that includes the head (Which means death, obviously.) The shittiest pistols in the game will do 24 damage if shot point blank at the head, and there are things that do a hell of a lot more damage than them. Armor doesn't stack linearly or deeper than 3 layers, either.

Combat should not be the go-to response to problems. It's always an option, but even the toughest characters will die if they go at it stupidly.

CP 2020 is perfect for emulating 80s cyberpunk, gimmicks and rule of cool included, from what I've seen.
This is precisely the reason the one campaign I had the fortune of playing in remains a fond memory to this day. I recommend trying the game for a "Let's be 80s as fuck, no holds barred" experience, if you can.

it's anarchic fun

>how come this cybered up solo is better than me at combat
>my rockerboy should be able to hold his own in combat
>my rockerboy doesn't wear body armor, because its his style
did you buy dermal sheathing or something like that
>no man, that shits not my rockerboys style
have fun making death saves when a double tap from a 9mm puts you at mortal 1, faggot

this same conversation, literally every fucking time i play CP2020

terrorism dialed to 11 doesn't sound like much fun and it doesn't make for a specific genre. you need more than that.

Just like in shadowrun the PCs are people who operate outside the system. They probably aren't bogles (I see those more as a combination of ISIS, gangers from Mad Max or Fist of the North Star, and Che Guevara types), but there isn't a reason you couldn't tell a story about them.

I like the concept of shadowrun minus the fantasy. The PCs run errands for the desperate and the rich. No matter who runs the world you still need people shaken down, assassinated, things stolen, and places burgled.

The problem with cyberpunk now is that the corps fucking won. And while we might have qualms about economic justice or even the military now and then, we LIKE Google.

It's impossible to go back.

>we LIKE Google.
speak for yourself, i have set qwant as default search engine

>Come up with these themes, spin them to the extreme and you have Cyberpunk.
The 'problem' is that you don't.
Of course, you can give all these things a Cyberpunk spin, but at its core these problems can't be solved by Punks and aren't 'Cyber' in aesthetics. Not that there isn't any possible room for either, but it will be an octagonal peg through a square hole.

First off the aesthetic Cyber part: We all know that shiny chrome and neon lights isn't 'the future'. Simple as that.

Then to talk about the 'Punk' part: Metaphorically, when the plants are polluting the air and poisoning the water punks can burn them down, when 'The Man' has wage slaves punks can burst their shackles.
But what is a punk to do when the masses only believe their own echo chambers, when workers are replaced by automation and when foreigners come, both to flee danger and improve their lives?
These aren't questions you can solve from outside the system.

I want to reaffirm what i said earlier, these are themes you can echo in stories about good people in corrupt systems, about people trying to do the right thing in a wrong world, and more likely than not failing. About good intentions gone bad, and how lofty ideals can lead to disastrous outcomes.
And these themes are so universal that they can be told in any possible aesthetic, from someone swept up in the French Revolution over WW1 Soldiers to a fascists on a spaceship

There's nothing to emulate rule of cool. The only thing you have is the luck stat that gives you a small bonus on skill rolls. In its basic form it's pretty noir and gritty. It's absolutely not pulpy or forgiving. There are no metacurrencies or buzzwords, triggers or whatever is in now.

In the end, though, the "Punks" were never able to achieve anything in a Cyberpunk setting, because The Man was just too big. They might burn down a factory or squat in an abandoned building instead of wageslaving away, but in the end it usually didn't change anything. Lucky breaks where the guy working against the system gets his hands on something that can bring it all down notwithstanding.

You can still tell the story of anti-system activists going up against an uncaring system with ultimately impotant rage here. The punks still have the same tool in cyber and realspace terrorism, it all just became even grimmer and more futile than back then. You can still hack social networks, sabotage automated factories, hijack news outlets, rile up the downtrodden and blow up refugee camps or political buildings if those are the main themes of your setting.

>it all just became even grimmer and more futile than back then
And that's the Crux of the matter.
Cyberpunk loses its luster when the Punks go from Idealists to Fanatics. If it is clear from the start that there is no winning it's hard to sympathise, or even empathise, with them.

I don't know, I think a lot of people would still sympathize and idolize them.

The rule of cool isn't in the system, man. It's in the world, the aesthetic, the fact that you can roll to see if your character wears a mirrorshade as a signature item, the goofy bullshit.

>vision of our near future, instead of the near future of the 1980s.
It will be shitty.
Digital currency, by chips at your hand that can track you. Money will be able to be easily wiped from you if needed.
Extreme inflation, saving is almost impossible.
All houses being bugged by the wires, and tvs that watch you. "urr durr no one will accept tv that watch you." People still use internet despise nsa existing.
One world government.
House bubble and huge housing taxes that make you need government taxes to buy a house, with it you will need to let them watch what you spend to make sure you will have money to pay them back.
Not allowed to have guns, unless for hunting.
Lack of prisons, make prisons become overcrowded, hospitals are used, and then because of it you will need ID to go to hospital at the same way you would logically need one to go to prison.
One world religion, basically, all the famous religions were guys that got the same god wrong.
You are only allowed to have 2 or 3 children's like china. You will be able to get condoms and abortions for free from the government.
Euthanasia is legal, suicide pill is legal.

I love the setting itself, though the mechanics leave a lot to be desired compared to GURPS Cyberpunk and Savage Worlds Interface Zero.

The idea is to make your chances, over time. Star Wars is all about a group of scrappy heroes going up against impossible odds, and after the heroic ending in the first movie blowing up the Death Star it turns out all they've really done is make the Empire angry and focus their attention for once - And that's a more positive example, but it's a good way to look over it.

A group of punks might take out the factory that's paying less than minimum wage and irradiating their employees or whatever and it's a huge victory, but then things get 'worse' as the corps move their policing forces in. It can still make a very interesting and ambitiously fun story that you can get behind.

Forgot to add, planting your food is not allowed unless you are an company.
The stated reason is that people started to do it wrong and poison people.
But it's decided that instead of punishing those guys, like we do with everyone that misuse something that is not evil or bad at its core (cars, motorbike, butter knife, hands, foot, mouth, dick), we should make it illegal to everyone.

Punks in cyberpunk don't fight the system. They simply always try to stay ahead. When they fight corporations, it's not because corporations are evil, it's because they wronged the "punks" in some way.

In the novel "Hardwired", Sarah wants to join the corporate camp - she wants to go to orbit with her brother. It's only after she meets Cowboy and the orbitals fuck them over, that they start to fight one orbital block. Cowboy always had a grudge against the orbitals as he had fought against them during the orbital-earth war - which earth had lost. His smuggling business was annoying the orbitals, but he mostly did it for money and adrenaline, not to fight the corporations.

Looks like demolition man movie but at a worldwide scale.

>One world government.
Ahaha, hah. I fucking wish.

worse: antibiotics will cease to work, making hospitals stays a big health hazard, shifting health care back to patient's homes, unless absolutely necessary.

where did you got that info?

A skin weave is minor surgery, and a skin weave coupled with decent armor makes you virtually immune to all but the highest-powered weapons. Now, maybe there are social reasons not to walk around in armor, but skin weave and a decent body type do a pretty good job of reducing damage on their own. You're completely screwed if you don't have decent armor or a skin weave, but otherwise you can actually end up being fairly durable. This, in turn, can lead to everybody and their great aunt toting around ridiculously heavy guns in an effort to be effective against those who armor up.

Ignore all the shitposters. It's a kinda okay system in a wonderful setting. I've gm'd over 20 campaigns in this system, and they've all been a shitload of fun. Things you should consider: Level of cybernetics. II: Level of wealth. III: Level of infuence. Always remember, your players are shit. They are nothing(unless you start at later levels). If they wish to get to the top they must be smart. When they get there, they realize that that nothing has changed, they just have a bigger paycheck. Before anyone gives me a shitstorm for thisl, this is my own interpretation. For me cyberpunk is present, but a little more advanced and little more nihilistic

Love the attitude of system and setting...

... but I think, unless you can get the players to accept it as a "retro"-Setting (kinda like Fallout), it will be very very hard to play.

...also I think the system has it share of problems. Part of it are very clunky (like nearly hundredsof skills that need to be monitored to advance them), parts of it are balancing problems (it was so ridiculously easy to get even light armor to stop most hand firearms (a bikini or kevlar skin would do), with harder armor, fights were either "we're invulnerable" or "that nuke finally did it. We're all dead") and parts of it were simply strange (Why that rigid class skills? Why not a reporter who's also a celebrity/rockstar? Why no undecovercop that's also part of a bike gang? Why does every character have to have a class at all?)

It's really not hard, still, combat can get quite complicated and with the 1-in-10 chance of fucking something up in every skill roll, I'd let the players roll seldomly and at at REALLY important stuff (however, this "breaks" the "Learning by doing"-advancement).

Generic skin weave (SP 12) coupled with decent armor that won't raise any eyebrows because it's subtle (SP 14) nets you a total SP of 19 on locations covered by the armor and 12 on your head/face.
Anyone with a big pistol or any rifle has a very good chance of penetrating that, and a piss easy time of penetrating your head armor, even ignoring the maxed damage from point blank. With armor piercing ammo, pretty much anything can penetrate that except for the smallest of pistols, which could still throw in a point of damage or two.

>Not allowed to have guns, unless for hunting.
Truly a travesty of human rights

>One world government.
Heehee hoho, not likely

>One world religion
AHAHAHA, THAT'S FUCKING RICH

A 9mm does 2d6+1 damage. That's 4 points too little, on average, to penetrate just your skin weave, never mind your body-type modifier (the average person subtracts 2 points from the damage they take). So now we're 6 points shy of doing any damage and we haven't even brought armor into the equation.

But let's give your attacker an 11mm heavy pistol (that's what? .44 caliber?). That gives him 3d6 damage, for an average roll of 11. That's still 1 point shy of penetrating your skin weave, and 3 points shy of making it past your body-type modifier as well.

So let's up your attacker's weapon yet again, and give him a hand cannon. A 12mm very heavy pistol does 4d6+1. That's 15 damage on average. Congratulations are in order. He actually made it through, inflicting a single point of damage after your skin weave and body type modifier are taken into account. Of course, if you had a strong body type, it would negate that one point of damage, and we still haven't taken armor into account at all.

The numbers in Cyberpunk 2020 are garbage.

>That gives him 3d6 damage, for an average roll of 11
Or 3d6 x 2 for an average of 22 against the head. In a system where the head (And arms, and legs) has 8 HP.

And then give him armor piercing ammo. 15 damage on average against your effective armor 9. 6 damage goes through, halved to 3 because AP. If you only have skinweave, that's against effective armor 6, so 9 damage goes through halved to 4. That 4 is doubled if it's a headshot, dealing 8, which is instant destruction of the head, which is death.

BTM might reduce it to 3 or 2, so two shots to the head is lethal. Follow up shots should also have less armor to deal with if staged penetration is in effect (And it really should be).

So if your assailant is carrying an enormous hand cannon, using AP bullets and shooting you in the head (which is a bit tricky to pull off), maybe he can actually take you down.

Also, you aren't taking into account body type, which reduces the damage you take to 1 point with armor, or 2 points without. Getting shot in the head will increase this, but I'd argue that if we're giving the attacker heavy weapons with AP rounds, you should be similarly geared when it comes to protection. A nylon helmet gives you 20 points of armor--24 once you consult the proportional armor table with your skin weave. Halve that and you get 12. 3 points of damage get through, which is reduced to 1 because AP does 1/2 damage. Now double that for a head shot. You're up to 2. Now subtract your body type modifier. That brings it back down to 1 (because your body type modifier can never reduce damage to 0).

>which is a bit tricky to pull off
Called shots are not difficult.
And if he's carrying a shotgun or rifle of any kind, he can easily take you down.
And if you're packing obvious armor, your enemies are going to be packing rifles. Armor degrades too, so they have ever increasing odds of taking you out.

>it's gotten too real to have any real impact anymore
This is such a retarded opinion and I see it parroted every time cyberpunk comes up. First, cyberpunk, as it's generally understood, is a very distinct setting that is highly different from the world we live in today. Just because corporations are big and powerful in the real world doesn't mean they operate with the level of impunity anywhere near that as depicted in cyberpunk. Nor do we have anywhere near the level of social breakdowns inherent to the setting. It's pure hyperbole to suggest otherwise.

the only skills that are imortant are the ones you put points into at chargen. you dont have to monitor anything else because they all give the same penalty if you points in it.

balence issues regarding armor and firepower are an issue with the gm and players, not the setting. At any time I could be in a horrible car wreck and have dire need of an extensive first aid or repair kit. Do I have those things in my car? no, I dont. I could though, companies make both of those things tailored just to this situation, but I dont have them. Although some people do.
Likewise just because its possible to get shot at by a high caliber firearm does not mean everyone in setting needs an EOD suit on at all times. you can die from a .32acp to the head just as easily as a .308 to the chest, so why bother lugging around an M14 all the time when I can give the npc' a pocket pistol. That being said ccasionally the players will see someone with an EOD suit and an anti tank rifle, in the same way that I occasionally see people with down syndrome buying porn mags at the gas station. If your game has turned into an arms race, then thats a problem with your GM or with your players.

as to the class system, you can be a reporter and a musician, the game tells you how to make your own class abilities, or you can multiclass with rules from a later suppliment book. If you dont like that idea, then spend your freebie points on musician type skills to go with your reporter skills.

It's unlikely that a tough character will fail it, but stun saves are important. Even a single point of damage triggers a stun save, and if you fail it, you're down and out from shock.

Real fumbles occur only on a 5+ fumble roll. Most of the time it's just a miss.

Simply reduce SP of armored clothing and skinweave. Basic skinweave should be around SP 4 or 6. It offers good protection against fragments and small caliber rounds, but not against bullets. Armored clothing's SP should roughly be halved. 8, 10 and 12 points would be ok for armored jackets and pants. Stupidities like armor bandanas and stockings shouldn't exist - they don't offer enough rigidity to stop bullets. Hardened leather should offer 1 or 2 point protection at best.
An other alternative is to consider that rifle (5.56 and 7.62mm) do AP damage as standard and that they are commonly used by security personnel - the AR-15 is very widespread now. This could be extended to PDW calibers (FN 5.7mm, H&K 4.6mm, etc).

Characters can have an aura of invulnerability if they have two layers or so of light armor and a helmet and they get faced with light weapons all the time. It's up to the DM to explain them that waking around wearing a combat helmet and a flak vest isn't socially acceptable. That said, 5 and 6mm handguns are pretty much useless. The lightest calibers in use should be .32 or .380.

>Simply reduce SP of armored clothing and skinweave.
This fixes most of the problems with combat.

>Called shots are not difficult.
They're more difficult than attacking with two weapons. If you normally have a 60% chance to hit a guy, only have a 20% chance to hit him when you're aiming for his head. That's not insignificant. And in order to be effective, you've had to look at heavy weapons with AP rounds shooting people in the head. That, by itself, should be a clue that the system has issues.

>A skin weave is minor surgery
I was wrong. It's negligible surgery--1 hour in a mall clinic.

Changing the numbers around could certainly help. Like I said, my main issue with the system is that the figures are screwed up.

>It's up to the DM to explain them that waking around wearing a combat helmet and a flak vest isn't socially acceptable.
I agree with this. On the other hand, your enemies shouldn't be walking around the streets with 12mm very heavy pistols using AP rounds. Without changing the numbers though, you get into a bit of an arms race. You need heavy weapons to take down folks who build up their defense (skin weave and/or even fairly light armor). This means that weapons become more obtrusive, justifying more obtrusive armor. And with folks with heavy weapons walking around, you're completely screwed if you don't have a skin weave or armor. So you end up with a bunch of turtles walking around with howitzers.

>An other alternative is to consider that rifle (5.56 and 7.62mm) do AP damage as standard and that they are commonly used by security personnel - the AR-15 is very widespread now.
Completely aside from the numbers being off, the AP mechanic is fucking obnoxious: half armor (round down), apply damage, now half damage (round down). That's unnecessarily cumbersome, especially once you're figuring in body type modifier and potentially doubling damage for head shots. There has to be a better way of doing things.

The thing is that you cannot go clubbing with a FN RAL assault rifle and a doorgunner's vest. You won't go shopping wearing a flak vest and a nylon helmet. Unless on operation, characters won't pack anything bigger than a heavy pistol and a light Kevlar jacket. At best they have a SMG or rifle as backup in their car. This will be sufficient to deal with the average street threats. For inspiration, google EDC.

Then, when it's time to operate, characters will start wearing heavy armor, helmets, and will use assault rifles and grenades. You won't assault a Militech safehouse in EDC gear, you'll gear up.

Regarding combat in CP2020 I can say that once you DMd a few of them it becomes incredibly fast. AP rules and stun/mortal saves might seem to take time, but it really doesn't once you get the hang of it.

People also don't realize how carrying a handgun can be annoying. If you want to conceal carry, it's even more a pain in the ass. The larger the gun, the more annoying it gets.

>oh no, body protection cyberware actually protects your body!
buy penetrating munitions or bigger guns, choombatta

>a fucking 1911 "compact"
>with absolutely zero spare mags
>not one, but two folding knives
>a swiss army knife
>a wallet with too much bullshit in it
>a tiny prybar
>a bulky flashlight
>and what i can only assume is either a dildo or a rectal thermometer

most people's edc is so goddamn retarded

Found it on Pinterest. It pretty much shows what the average cyberpunk could be carrying. Sure, the gun would be different. There would be at least one spare mag. The smartphone would maybe be replaced by a cyberdeck or wouldn't be there at all because of cyberware. A light and discreet armored jacket would probably be in the EDC kit together with some air filter, etc.

Wasn't only the damage that came through multiplied, like 2*(11-12) equals 0?

BTM is waaaay too generous. It should start at BODY 7 or so. There's no way that average characters deserve DMG reduction.

11mm caseless has about the same damage as standard .357 Magnum or 10mm Auto. 10mm caseless is about as powerful as .40S&W or .45ACP.

Oh. And BTM can never reduce damage to less than 1.

Yeah, that's what pretty much everyone did. But giving everyone armor piercing rounds just to make combat interesting, felt cheap, you know, like old 70s superman comics where they used kryptonite every issue just to keep things interesting.

> the only skills that are imortant are the ones you put points into at chargen.
The player would still want to get improvement points on skills. Making a scratch whenever any skill was used. That's what I meant with "monitoring skills".

People also forget that after 12 points of damage the character is mortally wounded. Maybe he didn't die and didn't pass out, but that doesn't mean that he's still able to put up a fight. Without pain editor, bio monitor and vein clips, he's most likely crawling to cover, frantically pushing its intestines back in or calling for a medic.

>t's up to the DM to explain them that waking around wearing a combat helmet and a flak vest isn't socially acceptable.

That's why [it's stupid that] they introduced Reactimesh. Intelligent clothing that can take on many forms, say rather unsuspicous items such as a bandana or scarf that turns into a full face covering (SP19 Kevlar) balaclava on the first round of combat.

>American/Western European detected.

Shit man, visit some second (or third) world. You live in a rich folk's comfort zone.

well, part of cyberpunk is some kind of arms race, forcing the PCs to constantly look for the latest-greatest goodies in.... personal defence.

Must be in some later supplement I never bother reading. Anyway, it's retarded. SP 19 Kevlar has always been considered as super-thick and would be ok for a thick parka or padded vest, but not for a shirt or bandana. Armored stockings were rated SP 10, which is the same as arachni-silk clothing. Also, armor usually has a round SP rating (apart of SP 25 armor). SP 19 sounds like bullshit to me.

>le "it's not a bad system, the fault of the players and gms for playing it badwrongly"
The problem is that the game does not do a good job of communicating exactly what sort of game it is meant to play. It presents itself as a general system for doing all things cyberpunk and then doesn't do any of them particularly (or even at all) well. It was fine for the 90s but it's high time someone reinvented the cyberpunk wheel for the 21st century that wasn't Shadowrun.

I agree. When you read the rulebook, it's all noir and gritty. Then you add some supplements and it becomes ridiculous and over-the-top.

...

Cyberpunk 2020 has been written by people who didn't really have a vision of what they wanted. It switches from realistic to cartoonish action constantly.

because cyberpunk can be both, so it's actually a strength. shadowrun, btw, does the same.

and this is good as it allows the GM to pick and choose their own flavor. 40K does the same, btw.

Yes, but IMO it should be one or the other. It can't be both at the same time, otherwise it becomes a Bollywood movie. CP2020 has many things that don't fit together at all.

then dont use the stuff you think doesnt fit.
i dont allow laser type weapons in my games because theyre dumb, i want cyberpunk not star wars. do the same with your games.

Id like to know what parts you consider cartoonish. im asking out of genuine curiosity and not confrontational arument even though the rest of my post might seem that way. i also think a handful of elements are kinda dumb (the main one mentioned allready) and want to see if im of the same oppinions as you.

yes, the issue of a gm vs players armsrace is not unique to 2020, and it stems from have a group of that guys as players, or from having a shit gm.

again, mechanically yes there is technically nothing stopping the players, theres no codified rule stopping it. however the books do make it quite clear that wearing combat armor on all day everywhere you go is not only going to get you socially alienated, but its also very uncomfortable. i think theres a quote in the book that says something along the lines of "only people who plan to get shot wear bulletproof vests".

its not a perfect system, but tossing the whole thing out just because of operator error is dumb. also 2020 is not at all a generic system, it is very much designed to be used with the included setting and does not function well as a roll your own kind of game. I dont see how it presents iself as generic considering how often its setting is mentioned.

>Not allowed to have guns, unless for hunting.
Speak for your own shitty country. Most states in the US have been strengthening their guns rights its only a few that have been enacting any kind of gun control.

I can tell you. No problem. I started playing CP2020 in 1993, so I had time to discard stuff I dislike.

The worst thing IMO are the furries from Chromebook 2, but I also don't like the theme park gangs from Night City sourcebook, or the Fist of the Northstar poser gang from Home of the Brave. I'm also no fan of the cartoonish nomad tribes from the same supplement. Finally, all this over-the-top stuff like the Punknaught, the Rostovic Wrist-Rocket or electro-thermal enhanced guns is also too much for me.

There are also those terrible clichés, like Arasaka troopers having combat armors that look like Samurai armors and, of course, they are so honorable that they refuse to retreat despite being ordered too (they probably commit sudoku, too, and they have sushi as MRE). Another terrible cliché is Night City's Chinatown with its two syllables characters, Kung Fu masters and Triad lodge master (Lo Ping, Nip Nong, Ching Chong...). And you have the Italian, Russian and Japanese hot chicks who are all the hot and horny teenage daughters of mobsters or corporates. And the list goes on and on.

>He doesn't like the over the top elements
plebian tastes, fampai.

I invented the Urotsukidoji Combat Dick implant for Cyberpunk 2020 (which We found hilarious when we were kids), so Talsorian can pack up its home appliance cyberware.

>I also don't like the theme park gangs from Night City sourcebook
>2016
>what are clown sightings
Veeky Forums naysayers BTFO by reality once more

Fuck those clowns man, that shits fucked.

Hey clown sightings aren't anything new today and if plastic surgery would be as cheap/easy as in CP2020 there would be a ton of insane furries running around.

Well, there's still 3 years till 2020, perhaps Trump (shutting of the internet, turning the US into a 3rd world country) can make it real?

That surprised me too, but they're just guys disguising themselves. The closest thing would be Jugalos, but they behave more like normal gangs than like deranged clowns who worship the Big Bozo. The clown gang is not the only ridiculous one. You have the Black Widows faggots, the DJs, the fucking Mimes, the Philharmonic Vampires, an all sexy-female fighter gang, an honorable Japanese defense gang, some vigilante gang straight out of a Charles Bronson movie, another vigilante gang with a terrible dress-code, a Native-American fighter gang that is super-honorable, the Brainiac nerd gang... Compared to the Mexican cartels, the MS13 or outlaw biker gangs, they can all go play on the kids' playground.

It really only takes one successful theme gang for others to crop up in imitation. Some of those cartels are already halfway there, they just need to get costumes.
At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if the gangbanger shooting you in the back of the head because he thinks you're a snitch is an Elvis impersonator or not.

There is a fundamental difference between dressing like a retarded, and behaving like one. Any of these gimmick gangs would be quick disposed by more ruthless, pragmatical one.

Pretty much this.

...

You're not grapsing the fashion mindset of cyberpunk. These gangs are respected exactly because they dress outrageously. Think Lady Gaga.

People generally respect power, wealth and the capacity actually fulfil your threats more than they respect some twats dressed in a meat dress. Bottom line, you and your gang can become a fearsome group while dressing like Bozo, but you get killed very quick if your main method of killing your foes involves a squirting flower that shoots acid.

One guy gets it.

no, small time gangs like the Black Queen can get away with light to medium armament because they get largely ignored and mostly just harrass normies.