How do we fix this?

How do we fix this?

Both in the lore and TT I knows Storm Troopers are not meant to be a full on army but who wouldnt love a full army of storm troopers.

Play Zone Mortalis.

Well thats nice and all but that doesnt really help the Storm Troopers

Fix what, it's basically all it needs to be. All they're missing is a way to take platoons in the codex, and possibly a 3-wound 2-order senior officer option for the command squad. Both of which were strange oversights.

The platoons especially, since they're referenced in some of the rules text.

Who gives a flying fuck about storm troopers


They were never cool in 40k their only fans are tacticool faggots who obsess over dumb real life military shit.


GW shouldn't touch them again. Play Infinity if you want that shit the Scions people want will never fit in 40k.

but..but...I like Storm Troopers

>lore

Let them actually win sometimes. Add stories about Inquisitorial Stormtroopers. Add stories about the various regimental grenadiers (Kasrkin, Krieg Grenadiers, etc). Make most of them into actual human beings and not SUPER GRIMDARK EMOTIONLESS TOY SOLDIERS.

'Cause that's already Krieg's gimmick.

Some good art that isn't the same 3 poses copy-pasted with the color palettes swapped.

>TT, if you want to make them a full army (and I think they could be)

Well first, fix all the shit with Imperial Agents. Then add Militarum Tempestus into that so an Inquisitor can be an extra or mandatory HQ.

Add Chimera (to formations too).

Maybe let them start out cheaper as Bolter goons and then upgrade to hotshots (since HSLs are useless against TEQ and vehicles that you're going to be hunting with their special weapons).

Make Command Squads into Elites instead of HQ, drop the Tempestor Prime and rename it "Purge Squad" or something. (can keep the HQ CS I suppose).

Let them platoon.

Possibly make Tempestor Primes independent characters (would be more fitting than Commissars).

Make Tempestor Primes have 2 orders per turn (instead of the current 1) and make normal Tempestors have 1 order per turn.

Give Tempestors acces to combi-guns.

Give Tempestors acces to inferno pistols.

Make melee weapons and pistols cheap across the board (something for all armies IMO).

Add in Solar Auxilia axe dudes, just because they're sick as fuck.

Add some kind of scouts/infiltrators and let them do a Pinion Battle-Company-style "lead" effect where they can bring units with them out of Outflank or Infil.

Add two-man sniper units/heavy weapon teams.

Add Vendettas (to the formations too).

Make their Warlord Traits better (and on a side note, I feel like Warlord Traits really shouldn't be random).


...that covers most of it.

Basically make them Solar Auxila. Give them a unit of CC axes, some anti horde units, and basically variance in their models. Maybe the tauros for a fast attack unit?

and lastly

named HQ characters

Keep the Taurox since its actually quite good with me atleast and can look better with 3rd party wheels.

They need to be IG Death watch

IG bikes

IG drop pods but mostly for infiltration

Make Scion Redemption Corps

IG from other regiments become storm troopers pretty much

I mean the Tauros, the dune buggie from FW you can slap las cannon and flamers to

>Add stories about Inquisitorial Stormtroopers.
>Make most of them into actual human beings and not SUPER GRIMDARK EMOTIONLESS TOY SOLDIERS.
>'Cause that's already Krieg's gimmick.
forgeworld's krieg took that gimmick from the inquisitiorial stormtroopers, who are heavily mind wiped because of their line of work. Before the IA books the death korps were just not-WW1 death cultists with an edgy german name.

Like, if you want human soldiers, play fucking guard. Storm troopers have been highly indoctrinated from day one. They're SAS commandos crossed with Hitler Youth in their original incarnation.

How about doctrines or something like what veterans have?

That'd be cool.

Without knowing what their formations do in their codex, a formation with valk/vendetta support that gives twin liked or increased BS or whatever to valks or vendettas firing at targets within a certain range of scion units, or against designated targets.

There is that suicide squad formation the scions have kinda cheesy if the scion player knows what to do actually.

And most who play scions actually know what to do but the number of people with full scion armies is so low.

I got a guy near me who runs a full scion list hes really chill actually but he barely comes in. I remember he cheesed some Tau plauer with that suicide formation since he gave that suicide team meltas and a sergeant with a plasma pistol and just kept the commissar in reserve.

I gave that fucker a drink after seeing that watching since the Tau player remarked at the fact why would he run a full scion army when he could run IG or better yet real space marines.

How about having that depend on the regiment? So that those that want Hitler jugend operators paint their dudes one way, those that want space macv sog paint them another?

For instance just off the top of my head, how about one group of guys operating largely independently in the fringes, combating subversive spread of tau influence as well as straight up regular heresy, possibly by dumping people from valkyries, butting into tribal conflicts or noble disputes to make sure the administratum's demands keep being met, fighting piracy, training and arming pro emperor militia's on frontier worlds and sometimes Working with rogue traders to achieve said goals.

>stop liking what I dont like!: the post

>How about having that depend on the regiment?
Thing is, we HAVE regiments for that. Elysians and Harakonis are standout examples of what people would want for tacticool4school operator guardsmen. The "storm troopers" were a single regiment, drawn from the Schola Progenium.

Making stormtroopers more diverse and native is silly. There are operator regiments without the indoctrination. There are mixed-unit regiments created from under strength remnants. The whole point of stormtroopers was to have a munitorum-standard regiment to handle the jobs the regular grunts can't be trusted with.

I kinda like the idea of different scholas make different storm troopers

Give them a few famous tactic options, like chapter tactics or doctrines. Soemthing to give you that my dudes feel without being samey.

Something to emphasize each unit is self sufficient. Maybe each unit can have a medic? Every single one should be enough to get the job done

Make their statlines not shit for the costs.

>Sergeants can ordee their squads
>Special Weapons Scions
>Scion Sentinels

Give them Rhinos and Rhino based tanks, heavy support squads, speeders (shooty ones and storm style light transports), and drop pods to make the more in line with their rapid insertion shock troops.

1. Run old Inq codex for servo skulls. Safe deepstrike mitigation.

(1.b) (Alternatively use White Scars scout bikers with homing beacons plus the infiltration formation)

2. Convert your Tempestus into D-99

3. Read the D-99 rules and pick up your jaw from the floor.¨

(3b. Run double CAD)

4. Rape tier 1-2 armies with pinpoint deep-striking elite infantry shooting 4-5 Preferred Enemy plasma volleys.

5. Rape your opponent with deep striking BS5 strafing run TL Punisher cannons Vultures that also has preferred enemy.

6. >"Wow tempestus is so strong!" Eldar fist-bumping you as you rape their asses.

7. Snigger to yourself and give a knowing nod to the owner of the hobby store and toss him your credit card.

>4-5 Preferred Enemy plasma volleys

PER SQUAD.

Land Speeder Storms would be so fucking cool.

I always wondered why normal Marines don't use them too.

also yeah D-99 are primo.

>WITH AN INQUISITOR THAT HAS AN INVULN SAVE

...

I like how all the scions have a basis for cool stories but no expansion or special characters

Well, it kind of does. At least with Kill Team and ZM.

The small, confined spaces of a ZM board mean short-ranged and assault weapons have an advantage over ranges, and being able to move through cover or have Night Vision help when encountering debris and when the lights go out. The fact that larger models can't fit and more agile or faster models suffer penalties and risks to movement means that basic Infantry shine in these confines.

The small size and emphasis on Infantry in Kill Team means that you'll be up against stuff you can actually kill with the weapons your Infantry comes with. And generally, though there's still a lot of imbalance, it's much more balanced when 40k infantry dukes it out with other infantry rather than trying to compete on the same field as miniature Titans and actual Titans.

Rule-wise they should be a tad cheaper but do not come with deep strike by default instead you can buy deep strike or infiltrate.

The tempestor (the squad sergeant) should come with a special rule which allows him to issue one order to his own squad as if he was an officer.

The Prime should be a senior officer and the Clarion vox array allows you to ignore restrictions when issuing orders (infinite range, can issues order from and into units in transport).

The Scion detachment allows everyone to make a scout move. Bullgryns are also an elite choice because the fluff says they use them.

Also, make them leadership 8 for the goons and 9 for the leaders.

All squads can purchase a medic.

Basic squads can purchase an extra special weapon if you take ten men.

Now they don’t need bolters as their guns can easily be turned into AP 3 pinning snipers. The ability to infiltrate or make a scout move helps with their short ranged weapons and the ability to take a medic and an extra special weapon gives you a reason to take large squads (well a ten man squad).

Any idea what the list would consist of? What's the cheese strat?

It's good if you aren't playing Kill Point games.

Basically you take a Ground Assault formation to get TL and Pinning plasma guns/melta guns/HSVGs.

Then you take Hellrain brigades. Give the Scion Squad 2x melta, 1x plasma pistol. Deepstrike them and kill shit. If they don't all immediately die you can shoot again and charge something so you get murdered. Come back and repeat.

Command Squads in HRB get Hotshot volleyguns and hold objectives. Taurox can cart them around and shoot things. Stick Commissars (you need them alive to get respawning scions) inside huge allied guard platoons, fortifications, or conscript blobs.

roll it back as an IG supplement
and stop trying to make them space marines light

I suspect the thing can't carry 7 power armoured Marines very well. Like how a Rhino can't carry 5 terminators (while Chimera can carry 6, so suck it, "superior tech").

I'm getting a little tired of this "Marine" and "non-Marine" division, especially in 30k where it was all Imperial stuff and there's no reason to limit equipment like that and wasn't until FW decided to.

But they don't have anything to do with IG now that they're under the Administratum and not Munitorum.

and Hell Rain is really the only reason to use Scions

which was a mistake
the codex isn't supported at all consisting of not a single unique unit (and like 7? units in total) on top of being not all that substantial when it comes to lore or rules either, trust me i won it solely for the grid with their special orders they put so little effort into it that one of the warlord traits refers to a scion platoon

D-99

It's the real "cream of the crop" super specialized human troops.

Avoid the gimmicks. Like "turn 1 vultures".

Use only elite slots and vultures.

Boom. Tier 2 army.

Same way they fixed shitty regular old marines. Give them enough variation to fulfill fast attack and heavy support, and shove them all in free transports.

So...

2 HQ

6 Troops

3 Fast Attack

3 Heavy Support

All in free Tauroxes. FA can get something like additional CCW or flamers or melta, HS can get HWTs or something.