Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

>2017
>centaurs still dont matter

nowhere in wow

>>centaurs still dont matter
>Asuna
>instead of Demon Hunters or Blue Dragons you should grind reputation with ghost cucks

There is actually no confirmation that Deathwing is Wrathion's father, and not just granddad. Mind that Sintharia was the only mate of post WotA Deathwing to survive mating with him, and she was scarred for life.

it will get raised as two skeleton warriors for 60 seconds.
God damn, I loved my meat wagon and necromancer combo.

When is Blizzard gonna release a new Warcraft TTRPG in a system that isn't complete shit?

Wrathion refers to Deathwing as "my father" because he was created by red dragon experimentation on eggs and dead whelps and has no single father. It's mostly symbolic.

Deathwing "mating" the rear half of sintharia off was not, however, symbolic and absolutely fucking hilarious

For every song we sing there are countless amalgams of eyelashes joined forever in the womb of our stars waiting for the chance to be whole again?

So wow gameplay representation ignored, how many mok'nathal are in the horde? And wouldn't they be the best race to breed for fighting stock, they are smaller but smarter ogres, and wod while retarded did show us how draenor worked, and how widespread orcs and ogres are surely warriors like rexxar must be more common

And where the fuck was the clan, if frostfire/gorgrond was blades edge, where is everything

What's the deal with Warcraft elves and running around barefoot? It's super common with the Nightborne too, Thalyssra and Valtrois both do it.

whats the deal with wearing shoes?

They protect and keep your feet warm

magic.
Night elves wear shoes all the fucking time though.

German player here

I find it curious. Arthas' VA in the German dub of Warcraft 3was re-hired to do Forsaken NPCs in Vanilla, but when WotLK dropped they all but forgot him. They probably wanted somebody closer to Heitz, for whatever fucking reason. They didn't care about copying Metzen's Thrallvoice in W3 and it gave the character a distinct spin in tonality.

I wish there was more stuff onlin about the old TCG. Just found a lot of cards in my old house and i was thinking of collecting some to play with my roomates since it seems pretty fun.
Anyone got any knowledge about it? Like decent links, rules or something like that?

Some do, some don't.

Also unrelated to his post, I see a shitload of people who use the Grifta's Authentic Troll shoes to be barefoot nowadays. What's that about?

You know what would have improved Warcraft lore tremendous? If the draenei weren't so damn forgiving.

Making them these super-wise, we-only-exist-to-fight-the-ultimate evil makes them really boring. I want to see them having a seething hatred for the blood elves. The moment they realize there's orcs on Azeroth, I want them to try to exterminate them. They shouldn't be wise and noble and perfect. They should be fervent crusaders aimed on destroying anything the legion has ever touched and asking questions later.

Also they shouldn't have shamans, that completely undercuts their whole "the Light's chosen race" thing. Fuck that.

You're on to something there. They are extremely removed from the world personality wise, which leaves very litle in the sense of relatability.

Which is why I love the mean streets of gadgetzan cards with them. Draenei having little vices that lead to bigger vices that lead to a life of organised crime in morally grey areas. I know it's pretty tryhard edgy, but having some Draenei fall from grace with indifference is exactly what they needed, in a way. Some selfishness, something that makes them mammallian, for all I care.

Feet are cute

>If the draenei never existed*

Fixed.

They used to be only available during the Troll rebellion in MoP, but they made them available again to purchase during the quest right before the Broken Shore on Horde-side.

Alliance side you can get a cosmetic white cloth hood for all armor types. It actually has a mini questline associated with it.

Both items are available to both factions, but acquiring them is faction specific.

This is the moment you realize how much of a clusterfuck WoD was. Thereare several reasons on why Mok'Nathal were not included:
1) Devs forgot content from TBC, which lead to making Fenris Wolfbrother into oldest son of Garad of Frostwolves Clan, and none of his sons is named Garm, while in TBC, in BEM in Thunderlord Stronghold, there is ghost of Garm Wolfbrother , who even happened to be Mag'har.
2) Mok'Nathal were either wiped out for refusing to join, or completely assimilated into main structure of the Iron Horde, while losing any cultural separation (even if that makes no sense)
3) They, like the entire zone of Farahlon, did not fit into the theme of expansion, and thus ended up excluded from it (Laughing Skull Clan was supposed to be in Farahlon, not Gorgorond)

>Ogre-Magi
>4 eyes in total
>Horned head has 2 instead of a single eye
>Tattooed/painted (?) X that is mimicking a scar that Cho'Gall got from Rend and Maim Blackhand during the battle on the Lost Isles, around the Tomb of Sargeras
2/10

Ogres in general view non-Ogres as weak slave races. Even when they lose they still hold to their superiority complex. Mar'gok's arrangement with Grom was incredibly insulting to him.

Even main universe Ogres aren't all that friendly with Orcs. Mok'nathal developed as a clan because they were viewed as mistakes, so they tended to cling together. They're rare because Orc and Ogres killed each other far more often than they bonded in friendship.

Mok'nathal in BC simply didn't give a fuck. I think it's more likely they didn't give a fuck either in WoD either so never showed up beyond Rexxar's appearance.

>muh grimdark crusaders
No, fuck that. Draenei can be plenty interesting as they are, it's just that the writers never bother to DO anything with them. Shitting them up with edginess isn't going to fix that problem.

Seriously though, how the fuck did WoD ever even make it past the "Hey guys here's an idea" stage?
The entire concept on its own is terrible and cringeworthy even before the absolutely abysmal execution of it.

It's not about edginess. It's about giving them motivations do actually do shit in Azeroth.
It's easy with Legion being the current xpac to forget the Draenei just sit there and do nothing whenever the Legion isn't involved.
The writers never do anything with them because they can't do anything with them.

Because Blizzard created them amd immediately wrote them into a corner, they never had a chance to be interesting. Being the refugee population who's primary goal is the defeat a big bad army out in the space-dark isn't really a good premise for a playable race. They're bland and will always be bland because they're one trick ponies with no personality and a lot of rule 34 fanart.

Which is exactly why they need to be deus vult-ing their way across Kalimdor

Sure they can. They've been shown to have a lot of goodwill, curiosity and drive to help the Alliance. They're pious, but less superstitious about it than humans. They're finding their feet in a new world (they've barely been around for 10 years, remember), getting to know its places and peoples. They'd be right with the Explorer's League if the writers would just let them, and that's just the first thing that springs to mind.

Basically, take their attitude in Azuremyst and Bloodmyst and give that to draenei explorers and adventurers all over the place. They'd get along swimmingly with tauren, dwarves and gnomes, albeit in different ways. Let them be a streak of weary idealism in the Alliance, always ready to help a stranger, translate an ancient manuscript or see a new horizon, despite all the horrors they've seen.

The idea of time travel to pre-Outland Draenor is pretty good in itself. The timeline being not exactly the same allows for some nice variety from original plot.
Also, some characters got nice expanded backstory, especially Blackhand's was good.

Overall execution, on the other hand, was absolutely awful. Plotlines that ended up without conclusions (Cho'Gall being shoehorned into heroic Highmaul without any explanation what were his plans or who were his new Masters), not including zones fans were hyped about (Farahlon), forcing player hubs to be in PvP zone instead of captured fortresses that people wanted as capitals of Alliance/Horde in Draenor during beta (not listening to player feedback), going full dindu (I hate this word, but unfortunately there is no word that can accurately enough describe that ending) at the end (Grommash is treated as if he didn't tried to genocide all other races on Draenor, because Gul'dan captured him and hijacked Iron Horde, making it Legion aligned).

Maybe it's just me, but I got as far into the initial announcement as "LOL TIMETRAVEL EXPANSION" before it reeked of unmitigated disaster. The whole concept is unnecessarily convoluted and screams of writers running out of ideas. It feels like a plot lifted from an awful episode of the original Star Trek.

It never made sense to begin with why Garrosh wasn't just executed. Hell, why wasn't he killed in SoO -in fact, why does it seem like the bosses of raids are never actually killed in the raid? What's even the point then?
I love the Warcraft universe, but the writing of WoW is really unbearable at this point. There's a new most powerful thing in the universe every 5 minutes and every villain has about a dozen "haha, you only thought I was dead!" moments. It's campy as hell and feels like an 8 year old playing with action figures.

As a GM and writer, its foot fetishists. Its a fetish you can show off right in the open and nobody bats an eye because they don't think its "fetishy". It also has a few tropes attached to it and that is what most people think when the barefoot warrior appears.If you were to include something like futas or an over abundance of pregnant women, its traveling right into someone's magical realm.

Someone or some people on the warcraft team have a foot fetish.

They put a lot of their fetishes into the game. Transformation s also in there CONSTANTLY.

Foot fetish though honestly.

I'm right there with you. The concept of WoD, along with the prospect of no new content for a year, is what made me quit WoW. Everything I've heard after that has only further convinced me I made the right move.

My friend runs it using some 5e hack. It does the job fairly well but it's very very alpha, doesn't help that my friend isn't a great GM either.
Personally I'm not even sure what system would be suitable.

They wanted to milk nostalgia for the movie, and needed a Gul'dan for Legion.

> You know what would have improved Warcraft lore tremendous? If the draenei weren't so damn forgiving.

>Implying you can be an important Alliance race without being largely superhero fags who never kill the Joker after he gasses a kindergarten

> It never made sense to begin with why Garrosh wasn't just executed. Hell, why wasn't he killed in SoO -in fact, why does it seem like the bosses of raids are never actually killed in the raid? What's even the point then?

Blizzard found out that they were running low on memorable villains. Same case for the "all demons respawn in Nether" retcon.

>implying that the real problem isn't that the Horde has been turned into the Joker

Where's the spot in WoW near the Barrens/Stonetalon that Cairne caused that avalanche that stopped the centaur? Or did Blizzard forget about that too?

The problem is that the execution was awful. Sure, it's pretty cool to explore early Draenor, but when it includes a lot of unfinished work, areas, and plotlnes, it only leaves bad aftertaste.

Blizzard forgot about it / purposely disregarded it when they designed the Barrens differently from Warcraft 3's Map.

Speaking of earlier maps:

I sometimes get the feeling that the maps and geographical information from Warcraft 2 are more sensible than those from Warcraft 3 and those from Warcraft 3 more than WoW.

I understand that in order to create engaging gameplay, designing a region in such a way that it doesn't become tiring in the visual aspect even after questing there for several hours on end is crucial, however I fail to see how old metrics have had to be thrown overboard for this when they technically were more or less just outlines, anyway. Most everything else in the landscape would still have been open for interpretation.

>pretending the Horde hasn't been the Joker since Vanilla

Might be fun for a bit, better than the mess of a 3e adaptation the original was

In Vanilla it was pretty even, actually.

They started sliding in BC.

Movie promotion expansion. Grom, Kargath, Durotan, and Gul'dan all look the same in both the game and the movie.

>grom in 2 scenes, no lines
>kargath in 1 scene background
>gul dan is a ripped wizard not a frail warlock
>wod blackhand looks NOTHING like movie blackhand

It was a very loose movie promotion

That seems kind of a stretch. They only based Kargath on his WoD design because it's his most recent appearance.

Also he wasn't in the background a total of once I believe.

>Making them these super-wise, we-only-exist-to-fight-the-ultimate evil makes them really boring. I want to see them having a seething hatred
youtube.com/watch?v=t6LIty6Uea4

It's at least the start. One of the few things WoD did well was that it at least put the draenei in the spotlight for a bit for once.
But that doesn't undo them sitting around and doing nothing for Wrath, Cata, and Mists.

>ywn be a Draenei
>ywn go to prevent the fate that befell your people in the normal timeline
>ywn fight for the Light across Draenor
>ywn succeed in saving hundreds, even thousands of lives

>ywn see the alternate version of your younger self
>ywn find them among the Sargerei
>ywn look in horror at your own face, twisted by the Fel into a vicious mockery of everything you hold dear
>ywn brush off their attempts to sway you to the darkness
>ywn suffer as the long nights drag on, and all you can dream of is the day you were forced to kill yourself
>ywn awaken with a start each day, the sound of your own wicked laughter in your ears, the knowledge that you could have become the very demons you fight refusing to leave you in peace

>ywn find out who exactly the Horde sent to command their garrison
>ywn find an old, green orc standing there, talking to a younger Mag'har
>ywn approach him and introduce yourself
>ywn learn that he is trying to convince his younger self, who he has taken prisoner, to defect from the Iron Horde
>ywn ask about the look of pity and guilt in his eyes when he looks at you, which is clearly far more specific than an orc who simply feels guilty for the actions of the Old Horde could have
>ywn hear him answer that the last time he saw you, you were so small, too small and too young to remember
>ywn ask more, only for him to fall into a slump and admit in an empty monotone that he was the one who murdered your parents in front of you, and only did not kill you because a Vindicator snatched you away in the nick of time
>ywn hear him practically wheeze that he would order his garrison and everyone in it with his last breath to let you go in peace if you were to kill him right then and there

Blizzard seems to have forgotten about half the races in the game. Worgen were almost literally forgotten about past their starting zone. Gnomes have been trying to reclaim their capitol city for years. Trolls weren't relevant even when Vol'Jin was Warchief. Tauren seem to be more associated with the Earthen Ring and Cenarion Circle more than they are the Horde.

Basically if you're not Orc, Human, or Forsaken Blizz doesn't really give a shit about you.

So, now that Helya's dead, what's going to happen to Helheim and all those Helarjar/Val'kyr?

They'll either be completely forgotten by Blizz, or most/some of them will join the Forsaken at the end of the expac.

Honestly I think it's a safe bet to assume Odyn would have them all killed.

Wait, if the MU draenei's parents were killed by the Horde when he/she was still a child, and WoD takes place about two years after the time the Horde would be formed in the original timeline, wouldn't the AU draenei also be a little child?

vo'ljin shouldn't have died. he died just so they could get a strong female character as warchief

>the two chillest of the four original Horde leaders are dead
Feels bad man.

>he died just so they could get a strong female character as warchief

keep /pol/ in /pol/ pls

>vo'ljin shouldn't have died. he died just so they could get a strong female character as warchief
>mfw they killed off the last Saurfang to give the most Mary sue character in warcraft a leader position.

Sylvanas became warchief not because she's le stronk womyn, but because she's Kosak's waifu.

But Blizzard doesn't really care about non-Stormwind Humans either. At least for the Alliance.

>Most Human countries are either dead, neutral, or monsters
>Elements of Human civilization are dumped on other species
>Silver Hand neutral
>Humans ruled by cucks

What surprise is it that humans are ruled by cucks?
>be Azerothian Human
>get cucked by orcs

>be Stromgarde Human
>get cucked by Ogres and other Humans

>be Dalaran Human
>get cucked by Orcs and Scourge

>be Lordaeron Human
>get cucked by Orcs and Scourge

>be Gilnean Human
>get cucked by Forsaken

>be Alterac Human
>ally with Orcs to not get cucked by them
>get cucked by Humans instead

>be Kul Tiras Human
>get cucked by a Mok'nathal and his band of misfits

>be Theramore Human
>get cucked by mana bombs

Humans exist to be cucked.

>cucked
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

>implying cuck hasn't become a meaningless buzzword like faggot by now

You'd HOPE so.

You'd HOPE so.

But if Fel can artifically age things, and Gul'dan or the Sargerei know you're there?

Never. It would allow one person to buy one book and play with all of their friends for free forever during time that all of them could instead spend playing WoW, which each must individually subscribe to. Modern Blizzard will never go for it.

>be /pol/ Human
>get cucked by calling everything cuck and making everyone cringe

>or most/some of them will join the Forsaken at the end of the expac.
Why?

Vol'jin is heavily implied to be returning in some form or another in the future

If there was any indication cuck doesn't mean anything by this point

Because they're undead with nowhere to go, and Sylvanas has been looking for val'kyr. Welp, a ton of them just became jobless.

This could be, but I think it would take awhile to wipe them out. Helya head been collecting souls for tens of thousands of years. There's a lot of dead giant dudes down there.

>Welp, a ton of them just became jobless.
I think Hellya val'kyrs joined to Eyir.

Is there actually a source that says Sylvanas is Kosak's favorite character? Because I have yet to find one.

Also, she became Warchief because she's popular. And originally, data-mined text revealed Vol'jin didn't die, but faked his death, went into hiding, and made Sylvanas temp wartime Warchief. This Loa crap was nowhere to be found in the dialog. I heard they changed it because a bunch of people whined about how Blizz was Horde biased because Varian got killed and Vol'jin didn't. Still, I can all but guarantee Vol'jin's story isn't done. We'll see him again before expac's end.

I can't see that happening, tbqh. Eyir and Odyn are all about "prove you're worthy." None of Helya's val'kyr proved that to them. That and they worked for Helya. I think it's more likely they became neutral Spirit Healers in the Shadowlands.

>I heard they changed it because a bunch of people whined about how Blizz was Horde biased because Varian got killed and Vol'jin didn'

This shit needs to stop.
You shouldn't be writing for a fucking mmo if you can't tell obnoxious internet trolls to shut the fuck up and write what the fuck you want to write instead.

Most of the people hate her guts

Most people in this thread hate her guts. Most players like her. One way or another, she generates stupid traffic both in and out of game.

>Blizz was Horde biased because Varian got killed and Vol'jin didn't.
I bet it was the same people who whined about Baine in Highmountain

Honestly people having been asking to deal with Sylvannas since the end of MoP. Now they're finally getting around it and of course people are complaining.

Didn't Rexxar constantly say that he was the last of the mok'nathal in the WC3 campaign?

This means they were never big in numbers anyways even if Blizzard retconned that.

Blues have been asking for her death. Reds have been asking for more story.

Surprise surprise, opinions are polarized depending on which faction a player mains.

>and of course people are complaining.
Because she just doesn't fit the Warchief position.

Does her having more story on the Horde side bother the Alliance story?

And I can't say I believe people asking for a characters death constantly is unheard of.

It's very apparent in Stormhiem.

Why does the leader of the Horde need to run a secret mission with nothing but her own army and one hero? She should have had all assets of the Horde brought with her if she's really looking for a way to live forever. No one would say otherwise because we did shit for Garrosh before and he ended up using a bell to almost killl Anduin.

And her little mission wasn't even close to avenging Vol'jin like she told at his funeral, meaning his death and her shoehorn into the position was last minute.

I'm betting Sylvanas is going to catch the raid bug and Vol'Jin is going to make a heroic return to help Alliance and Horde put her down.

Well, this whole universe started as "orcs vs humans" with everyone else being a sidekick a best.

>Sylvanas getting raided
Keeo dreaming, honey.

She's going to 'die' but her soul will take over Helheim since its leadership seat has been conveniently vacated.

Alliance gets Sylvanas dead, Horde gets Sylvanas still around to show up in the future.

>Horde whines because they kill ANOTHER warchief
>Alliance whines because there's ANOTHER Horde-centric raid while ally leaders don't do shit

I swear sometimes Blizzard is intentionally trying to piss everyone off. Pulling off shit like that takes some serious skill.