40K End times?

Because they're basically just bullshit arguments with no real meaningful ways of concluding. One person likes Chaos and think they should win, another likes one of the Xenos races and think they should, etc. They're also filled with people dumb enough to believe that GW is going to kill their golden goose because they chopped the neck off of the goose that stopped laying golden eggs years ago.

Because its been repeated over and over again that the Warp is unbound by time? That's how spaceships get lost for thousands of years or pop out before they even went into the Warp at all. Also, Slaanesh existed before its corresponding moment in real space and had a hand in The Fall that ultimately gave birth to it. Time is of the physical.

>Is the 40k appeal dieing on Veeky Forums?
>on Veeky Forums

I doubt it since most 40k threads are still posted outside the general.

Is the 40k general that shit for this reason?

It is.

Why do you think people still post 40k threads? The general is just straight up terribad but the RPG general is aight.

These threads are just shit with the "age of emperor memers" and some other shit.

My bet GW doesnt do anything but the skub faggots take shit to far.

That just makes them seem even more incapable of winning. Normally they would have had 10,000+ years to beat the other factions in, but if they can go all nonlineartimeLOL then they've had all of history from the beginning of time on out to work with, and still haven't won yet.
Either they're constrained somehow so that time travel is not easy and useful, in which case bringing that up is pointless because it doesn't actually matter, or they really suck at accomplishing anything.

I'm not sure what purpose the 40k general even serves other than as an easy compilation of resources. I don't think 40k in recent times as ever reached the point where it has drowned out all other discussion.

I just go there to grab stuff out of the mega files myself. Occasionally ask about a list or for some advice if i'm feeling brave.

are you the "curze is coming back as a demon primarch" shithead from the 40k generals?

>going on generals

The Horus Heresy made modern 40k lore enjoyable in alot of regards and The Beast Arises

That or modern BL shitheads I mean fuck where are all those good space marine short stories? Or Ciaphas Cain adventures, or that good eldar book?

Now its muh marines with daddy issues and dumb ass power levels as fans continue to suck primarch cock.

UNENJOYABLE

I MEANT UNENJOYABLE

>The Horus Heresy made modern 40k lore enjoyable in alot of regards
What the entire fuck
I've seen some shit on these boards, but you are one sick bastard

That was a close one user

They are always fighting each other too remember? The Great Game is played just as much Dark God versus Dark God as it is Dark God versus Mortals. And why the fuck would you count "not having won YET" as them when yet is a meaningless construct to them? Comparatively that would be like telling an opponent in an arm wrestling match that has the lead that they haven't beaten you in Canada yet. Its a non sequitur. A meaningless distinction from their point of view.

Master of Mankind has done a lot to paint the Primarchs as fucking dumb. The Emperor never intended for them to look at him like a father. He finds the entire concept as uncomfortable and undesirable and he only tolerates their delusion because it doesn't compromise their usefulness to him.

I think that is really great. ADB has essentially made the Emperor's stance "You are all a bunch of grown ass men! Stop asking me to wipe your asses and kiss your boo boos better!"

It seems to me if they can go back in time then the other factions ought to have been fucked before they got off the ground, infighting or no.
Like why weren't any of the Shamans that would eventually have created the Emperor corrupted or attacked? That seems like a lot of juicy targets all split up and you could eliminate the guy before he exists.
But the warp was calm back then, even though tha Chaos gods all totally existed.

It's all self-contradictory and doesn't make any sense.

>inb4 that's because CHAOS!

It still doesnt change my opinion on that shit book series

Weren't the chaos gods only properly manifested after the creation of the big E?
They existed but only as aspects of the calm warp, it was only once mankind had built itself up and the eldar has murder raped their way through all the kittens that the gods really formed up as distinguishable aspects of the emotional spectrum of the many races.
(This may be bullshit....)

If chaos winning leads to the destruction of the empire which leads to humanity being unable to defend itself from xeno threats which leads to MASSIVE dieoffs of humanity won' that lead to weakened chaos powers as they have then only a minute .001 percentage of the floopy mental energies they used to get? ORKS WIN

Chaos to me more has time on its side because it doesn't entirely have to worry about attrition. The CSM that have been around since the Great Crusade or Horus Heresy don't have to worry about dying from old age. Daemons are impossible or extremely hard to permanently be rid of. There will always be droves of people who can be tempted to serve as hordes.

I don't recall anything saying that Chaos itself can time travel, only that time travel has happened to certain individuals as a result of warp travel.

40k has seemingly always been Marines, Guard, or Chaos. Honestly the only Eldar stuff I can remember is all relatively recent and the majority of it likely by Thorpe. If Guard has suffered a decrease is possibly because the gamut of what can be done with them has been run.

ADB's interpretation feels like the one that makes the most sense when you look at the Emperor's actions with regards to the Primarchs and how he doesn't give a shit about their personal problems and gets mad when they don't do what he wants.

This could have possibly been why Chaos scattered the Primarchs in the first place. By doing so the majority were able to grow up akin to actual humans and develop their own personalities and values instead of just being the Emperor's souless tools.

IG have gone down in popularity

We need new blood possibly not a commissar this time maybe a new named Catachan character

Technically Necrons win. Orks are weak as shit and get fucked over by everyone. Necrons are Tyranids are least affected by Chaos fuckery. Chaos kills itself by suceeding,

So that leaves Necrons vs Tyranids. Necrons have as large as empire as Man but far superior technology and don't have any biomass for the Nids to eat.

Only way Necrons lose is if they fail to deploy their anti-Chaos magitech and get fucked up by the whole galaxy going Eye of Terror style.

>Weren't the chaos gods only properly manifested after the creation of the big E?

Yeah, that's what I though, but this guy's talking like they exist entirely outside of time, and thus once they are created, then they've always been there and can act at any point, even before they existed. It sounds pretty unlikely to me.
I mean, time shenanigans can happen, according to lots of stuff, but it doesn't look to me like Chaos can really use it intentionally for any purpose.

>I don't recall anything saying that Chaos itself can time travel, only that time travel has happened to certain individuals as a result of warp travel.

That's what I thought, but the guy upthread was making it sound like chaos had a time-travel "I win" button.

A Catachan commissar? Sure thing

Okay, let's all agree that the Necron Codex was a mistake and the whole "the warp was calm back then" thing was a load of counter to the canon bullshit. Its either that, or for some reason the Dark Gods came to a decision that they couldn't fuck with anybody back then. It makes a certain kind of sense that they would ensure their own existence.

And stop framing it as going back in time. Going back in time is a concept only to things that exist within time. As beings that exist out of time they are perfectly aware of all points they exist. They don't have to go back to the past. They already exist in the past. They still enter the Warp at a particular point in space and time and expand backwards, forwards and sideways. That point still needs to be protected and even coaxed into being. So Slaanesh for example has to keep the conditions of its birth protected for it to exist. If it ever failed to protect its birth, it would from our perspective never be. Meaning that Slaanesh successfully keeps the timeline up to the point of The Fall exactly how it needs to be born.

no, yer right - chaos is not a timetravelling uber bad. chaos loses just as hard as every other faction. Enslavers rule, as they always have.

Listen mate you can't just disregard canon like that, any more than we can disregard stuff in the chaos dexs and say its bullshit. If it doesn't make sense or it doesn't support your claim, well thats just too bad. It's canon. Furthermore where in the hell are you pulling this timeless stuff from. I see you or someone like you in all the threads pushing this, but i've never seen the dex and page that says it. I request that you provide me your source.

>he doesn't know that tyranids 'eat' everything

don't be dumb

But they explicitly don't.

A Catachan commissar sounds badass

I thought necron metal bugs infected non-necrons when necon-non-meat was ingested?

I think the timeless claim is based on the general idea that gods existing in an alternate dimension might not have to obey linear time.
The warp can cause time travel by accident because time moves differently there, but we have no proof that it is navigable. On top of that remember that whilst the warp is the gods, the gods are also the warp, and so in the same why I can manipulate carbon to a certain degree, I don't control it entirely and I am still forced to submit to it's rules. (fucking carbon, always acting like it's the fucking boss of me!)

I thought I was but I wasn't sure if that had been changed.

Since Commissars never serve with a regiment from their home world what kind of regiment should he serve with?

Wasn't there a fluff segment about a tyranid bio ship absorbing necron metal and the marines trying desperately to destroy it before it made it back to the hive fleet proper to ensure that the evolution wasn't carried throughout the race?
The tyranids had been trying to absorb the necrons but failing over and over and over again but this one bioship did manage it.

I can't remember if the ship managed to pass it's evolution on to the hive fleet.

>And stop framing it as going back in time

Doesn't matter how you frame it, it adds up to the same thing. I'm with the other guy, sources or gtfo.

Either one of those rich kid regiments or some urban one.

Basically he has a normal commissar design with Catachan touches and his red bandanna visibly tied on right shoulder

>because it's the most depressing and most meaningful.

More like most stupid.

Chaos destroying the Imperium is a valid outcome. The Emperor dying - the entire universe EXPLODES because reasons is just lazy, stupid as fuck writing.

The universe got along just fine without the Emperor before his creation, and if we are being honest the Emperor was never all that powerful. He is, like, 20 moderately psychic dudes from earth's prehistory added together. Get 10 Eldar in a room and you have the psychic powers of the emperor at your disposal.

Alpha plus psykers have already performed feats of psychic power far beyond anything the emperor ever did. The Emperor's best stuff was all science and genetics and whatnot. If he was on par with an alpha-plus psyker, he wouldn't have NEEDED the Thunder Warriors or the space marines, he could have taken over planets singlehandedly with his mind.
He didn't, because he COULDN'T. That means there are a handful of psykers alive right now in 40k who are more powerful than the Emperor ever was.

The Emperor dying destroying the universe is asinine, and only makes sense as something cultists tell their kids as a bedtime story.

Okay, well that's not unreasonable, but that's not source material. We can apply logic to 40k and get many many different outcomes. That's the beauty of interpretation. I could point out that sci-fi writers generally have a terrible grasp of scale, and that logically the Imperiums armies should be much larger than they are, and if they were as large as they should be logically then they really should just steam roll the shit out of everything, but everyone would call bullshit. The only thing that provides anything we should be able to agree on is canon (saddly sometimes people are unhappy with canon. I am often unhappy with it. But this isn't a fan fic, its a discussion of lore, and in a discussion of lore we should stick to the actual lore), otherwise it's nothing but our conflicting suppositions. Therefore no argument or claim should be made without a source.

That'd be cool. A Tyranid ship successfully absorbs necron material and in doing so is twisted into something neither 'cron nor nid. A rogue grey goo deified by defiled techpriests

Also, the Well of Eternity exists, and Kairos was sent there because even Tzeentch can't tell with perfect accuracy the future. (And whatever was there can frak up a daemon really bad)

Hmmm so the Firstborn are an option. We could stick him with Armageddon Steel Legionaries or Kriegers. For maximum giggles stick him with that stuck up not!french regiment from the rpg books that canonically hates Catachans.

Also uses a power fist and plasma pistol.

You never see those 2 weapons on the other OG commissars

Time is wonky in the warp, but the chaos gods DO NOT get a say in that wonkiness. They feed on the emotions of living things. That means they are directly impacted by the events of a linear universe in a linear fashion.

Much in the same way that I live on a planet that has weather, the chaos gods exist in a universe where time is occasionally screwy. But I am not a tidal wave who controls volcanos. Likewise, the Chaos gods can't actually control time and bend that power to their whim.

As proof, I submit the fact that the entire chaos space marines army is NOT a literally infinite number of copies of 'powered up by all four chaos gods' Warmaster Horus, each one ripped from a separate instant of the time stream. Because Chaos can't DO that.

So how does this Catachan commissar come to be?

necromunda spiders? Bringing in his jungle warfare techniques into the urban jungle of the underhive? engaging in long drawn out guerrilla campaigns in the build up to the "liberation" of a rogue planet?

Or counter, A hive ganger who blagged his way to commisar but gets stationed with the catachans due to his superiors really not liking his dirty blue collar origins.
After he pulls some gang style shiv murder on a squad member who tries to assassinate him the men begrudgingly accept him and he goes on to lead them through a number of death world missions whilst using his position as a nobody in a seemingly insignificant regiment to subvert the aspirations of his superiors who tried to get him murdered. Maybe he fights with the knife of his would be assassin as a sign of his acceptance and eventually he goes down fighting with it, missing an arm and screaming catachan curses.

Daemon Codex. I don't know which edition. Sorry man. I think there is also some mention of it in the most recent Dark Eldar book but my memories aren't reliable on that one. All I remember is that the Daemon codex makes the point of saying that the Fall birthing Slaanesh is a construct of limited mortal perspective.

Either way it is the logical conclusion based off of what we know of the mechanics of Warp Travel. If we have a bunch of third person omniscient narrator perspectives telling us that Slaanesh was born of The Fall only to be contradicted later by claiming that it is a flaw of mortal perspective than I am willing to say that same thing applies to the third person omniscient narrator claiming that the Warp was calm in the time of the Old Ones. The Dark Gods existing as they do rely on a certain mortal chronology to happen. They are all one great big knot of space and time that rely on each other existing to exist and yet have to fight each other because their fighting each other is what ensures they exist. The rarely mentioned 'minor chaos gods' like out of the 3rd edition codex can be interpreted as Chaos Gods that might have been but were prevented from existing by the machinations of the Great Game. Never existing but sorta existing.

But he's from Catachan. The man needs his machete.

Nah man, Chaos-influenced Tyranids being lead by Malal.

Game over man, game over!

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and not call bullshit, but i am going to have to go read those dexs now once i download them from the general. Eh, whatever. I got my minis and i like them. As long as i and my budies have our dexs and our armies i can deal with whatever happens.

The Praetorian Guards for maximum comedy

Or the Tallarn Raiders for Rambo MCMXXVII

So in Catachan lore a regiment of them took down an entire tyranid infestation by covering themselves in tyranid guts and killing the hive tyrant.

The surviving Catachans had to spend 3 years on a decontamination ship our commissar already received his Catachan name and took part in some minor battles this tyranid thing gets him noticed big time. Here comes some head of a scholoa progenium and asks the Catachan if would come with him to a schola and become a commissar. Catachan at first laughs and turns down the deal but here comes some old ass Terran law of "All regiments of the Imperial Guard are requeired to have one being from their home planet be put into a schola and turned into a commissar" they just never tried since alot of the kids on Catachan tend to die.

Well as far as i understand the Fluff Commissars are trained in the Schola and then shipped off to join a regiment. So some kid from Catachan was selected for his great faith and ability to go train to be more than just a guardsmen and was chosen to become a Commissar. Then he gets assigned to someone (we still need to iron that out) and he goes around doing his thing with a big honking plasma pistol and a power fist i guess (i still feel like he needs some Catachan esque weapons.)

>Goes into battle with a power fist.
>"looses" it every battle and is forced to use his catachan knife.

...

40k has technically been in the End Times since at least 5th edition.

On a serious note though, GW's facebook page has confirmed that they aren't doing any kind of Warhammer-Fantasy-esque-End-Times-scenario with 40k.

GW has always seemingly handled the existence of stuff outside of the Milky Way Galaxy poorly.

The Emperor is likely so important because he both directs the Astronomican, which allows the Imperium to function, and the possibility that he somehow protects human psykers from the full onslaught of Chaos. If the Astronomican goes then you basically have an even worse Age of Strife as all cohesion breaks down and you start having daemons using psykers all across the galaxy as portals. He is also the only thing keeping the Webway portal on Terra closed, if that opens then you'll have daemons pouring out.

I know the Horus Heresy has dabbled with the idea of a second Astronomican of sorts in the eastern part of the galaxy, but I imagine it either was as strong or went to shit for some reason.

I'm also guessing that there is some unique about the Emperor which allows him to direct the Astronomican which other similarly powerful psykers can't duplicate either because it's out of their range of powers or the only one who could teach the mechanics of it is the Emperor himself.

There is that Catachan sword with mercury in it

wut?

Now im imagining some super buff teenager in the schola surrounded by kids.

>Alpha plus psykers have already performed feats of psychic power far beyond anything the emperor ever did. The Emperor's best stuff was all science and genetics and whatnot. If he was on par with an alpha-plus psyker, he wouldn't have NEEDED the Thunder Warriors or the space marines, he could have taken over planets singlehandedly with his mind.
>He didn't, because he COULDN'T. That means there are a handful of psykers alive right now in 40k who are more powerful than the Emperor ever was.
See, this is the shit that drives the fans nuts. Geedubs goes out of its way to make the emprah the most uber tuffest eva! But.....then writes shit that COMPLETELY invalidates what they've previously established.

Don't worry user, I agree with you. If anything, it's the universe itself keeping things "on track"

>The Devil's Claw, named after the great predator on Catachan, is the longest weapon, up to four feet long. It is closer to a sword than a knife and has achieved status among the Orks who call it 'Da Cutta'. The blade is hollow and half filled with mercury in order to improve swing strength and control, and the design of this weapon has been copied by Catachan regimental officers for use as a power weapon

wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Catachan_Jungle_Fighters

So the catachan sabre is a hollow sword filled with mercury.
The idea is that this mercury is forced to the end of the blade when swung allowing the wielder to put some major force behind the swing even in the tight confines of the jungle.

Maybe he get's posted on an arctic world and is forced to use his sword in a new exciting way as the mercury freezes solid within it.

(god damn i miss my awful catachan all infantry army.)

>Not having a fully fluffed Catachan army with 8 sentinels and no tanks

By god I love this regiment

Okay, dude's got a plasma pistol and a Claw. Now lets decide on a regiment once and for all. So far we have as options

>Necromunda Spiders
>Praetorian Guard
>Tallarn
>Krieg or Armagedon

Unless i missed something.

erm, mercury freezes at -38 degrees - muscle man gonna be cold already!

>Excuse me are you a storm trooper?
>nah im your fellow student
>By the emperor?! How is that even possible
>Well I dont know either
>I thought this place killed the rejects if they didnt pass
>Rejects? Listen here you little shit when I was your age I was fighting 10 foot tall scorpions
>AND THOSE WERENT EVEN THE REAL THREATS
>IT WAS THE TOADS YOU GOTTA LOOK FOR

did you not see ALL INFANTRY?
I remember my first game of apocalypse. I set out my army, lined them up in full regimental formation, and was immediately wiped off the board by turn two.

The greatest thing that could help WH40k right now is an integrated and consistent lore, and balanced game mechanics. Instead of mindless expansion (although the Horus Heresy was, in its intent, a good move) GW should just take a step back, take a deep breath and see what needs to be done with the franchise.

Armageddon they use tanks a fuckton its something the commissar is not used to

*balanced armies
That's closer to what I intended.

>MFW the Catachan commisar is he who commands the men to drive the tank closer so he can hit them with his sword, because he has no idea what the fuck to do with tanks and just knows how to kill shit in melee with his overgrown death world muscles.

I can't really recall off the top of my head any psykers near the Emperor in power level who were supposedly jacks of all trades besides Magnus and maybe Malcador. 40k is moving more and more towards psyker sort of being really good at one thing in specific and that is it.

and then the story of them the Steel legion gets sent to a jungle world the Catachan gets all giddy. In between the fighting his men complain about the conditions and the commissar can only be seen with a large ass smile on his face.

>but I imagine it either was as strong or went to shit for some reason.

*SPOILERS*

It's a Necron artifact. It doesn't quite BAD END+++, but it DOES get ruined like everything else that could potentially diverge from core canon.

Magnus and Malcador were the only two people overtly listed as running the Astronomican -- that was Magnus' original purpose, and Malcador takes over while Emps is on the Vengeful Spirit. He also promptly dies from the effort, and he might be the strongest vanilla psyker to have ever lived.

AMEN MY BATTLEBROTHER!
Never happen, tho.

Underrated post

third post best post

>thinking you have any ground to judge from when you read 40k fiction

Yeah, that's just stupid. Current gw leadership seems to have taken the line: "...the laughter of thirsting gods," to mean the chaos gods, and that's a wrong interpretation. The 'gods' in that case do not refer to chaos: it refers to us, the players, the 'gods' of our chosen faction of little plastic men. WE are the laughing, thirsting gods for whom war is just a game.....
Chaos didn't win: WE won, the players of the game. EVERY faction in 40k loses, and WE win...

End times came about because WHFB wasn't selling well so they replaced it with Age of Sigmar. Like it or hate it that's the reason. 40k sells hella more than FB did so there's no reason for it to get End Time'd.

True Eldar victory when?

>How do you actually prevail against something not constrained by time?
By making time itself your bitch.

Go home Gav, you're drunk