So I've been talking with my family about how one day I'd like to get involved in BoN or some other form of full-contact armored sporting combat and so my dad, being both loving and marginally impulsive, bought me a set of Amazon Prime-tier chain mail(le) for Christmas (pic related, exact product). It's not bad quality actually, a bit formless and with some loose links that I had to fix with some pliers, but otherwise a proper length and pliable enough to fit plenty of layers underneath. I've taken this as a sign to start putting together my own armor. I'm not thinking about helmets or anything plate yet, just putting together a surcoat and a gambeson.
Problem is I've never done anything like this, never done cosplay and I'm basically unskilled in tailoring. Are there any larpers or re-enactors here willing to give a few tips so I can avoid making any expensive mistakes?
I've done a few ACL events, so I can chime in about the kit.
You may have made a mistake already if the mail isn't riveted. Butted mail is a joke and will give you zero protection.
Mail in Bohurt is not for game purposes but protection purposes in case some asshole actually brings a sharpened weapon (russians do this abit) or a weapon snaps and becomes razor sharp on impact.
Padding is the least expensive part of kit IMO. Never gets dented, needs replaced or worked on.
Surcoat is a team thing. You only get to use the team one, so don't bother with one if you aren't on a team.
Gambesons are a dime a dozen. I can recommend half a dozen sites, KultofAthena, Gambeson.pl, AgeofCraft, SharukhanMarket, Outfit4Event, or any other site. If you wanna go super cheap, even a $50 one off Ebay will work just fine. Be aware your gonna have to make and sew your own arming points on. Its easy, but you don't do it till you have the armor and know where they need to go.
Ian Perry
Don't get me wrong, I have no illusions about being able to use this in anything ACL, mostly I just want to finish the rest of the outfit. In my mind, putting in the effort to have a mostly-functional kit of armor is better than being that guy who has a mail shirt in his closet. Case in point, this stuff is textbook basement-dweller butted mail, it will probably never see combat on purpose unless our resident clown friend ever convinces me to start larping.
These websites are really useful though, thanks. What do you tend to use for legwear and footwear for ACL events?
Wyatt Kelly
I usually wore some under armor under the pantaloons or whatever medieval people called pants. Then leg padding, leg armor tied onto a body harness doublet, medieval shoes and then armored sabatons over those.
Essentially, it's a tournament that adheres as close to medieval rules as we can figure. People dress in full armor and whack at each other until someone sits down or is sat down and it's rad.
Sebastian Butler
I found this site some time back and they seem to have pretty decent riveted stuff. One I have some hundreds of bucks to throw away on armor they'll be my first stop. customchainmail.com/
Allbeststuff seems to have reasonable coifs and chausses, too. A lot of the stuff is garbage but there's some good pieces in there.
Biggest mistake would be just buying butted shit or not knowing time period and region you're going for.
Matthew Sullivan
The mail shirt I used was from allbeststuff. Just needs to be steel and around 9mm or smaller and18 or lower gauge steel. As I said, its mostly insurance against accidents. The real armor is the plate.
If you can get spring steel, do it. A piece in spring steel will last three times as long at a minimum. My 16g mild breastplate lasted for a season, and my 18g spring steel brigandine is still useable now after 4 seasons of use. The real downside of spring is the cost, but god is it good. I would go for a good helmet as the #1 item. Spend any amount of money to protect your noggin. A penetration to the helmet and resulting skull fracture is a life ending injury, getting a bad winding or cracked rib gets you a ride to the hospital usually at the worst.
Art Armor came out with a spring steel greathelm called the Griffon for a relatively low cost. $500 on a good springsteel helmet is normal, but you can get them for $3-400 if you look hard enough.
You can get a mild greathelm for less than $200 bucks, just make sure it doesn't have a flat top.
Joseph Perry
> one day I'd like to get involved in BoN or some other form of full-contact armored sporting combat
I am going to be real frank, as an ACL/HMB fighter myself. Its expensive, and its terrible on your body. I know personally, the only reason I can keep fighting is free medical courtesy of uncle sam, and my armourer sponsors.
If you are interested in getting into high-contact armoured fighting, check out your local SCA group, and get into some baton combat first.
Where are you local to? Come join us in the /cgl/ larpthread for more info. Do not buy shit from anywhere without consulting us, lest you waste your money.
>I've done a few ACL events Which ones? Where you at? I was unaware there was another buhurt fighter on Veeky Forums. Im in the VA historic triangle, trying to get enough folks to register for a full team.
I run either polearm, or mace and punching shield. You?
Pantaloons are not medieval. Medieval is a big gap of time. most of it was hosen, and you'd never mistake them as pants.
I prefer American made, if only for the ease of customization and communication. Spring Stainless for life.
Anthony Sullivan
I live in Virginia nearish to DC, from what I remember not a lot of hardcore european larp around me (though I remember Gropey mentioning something about 3 hours from me, which isn't too bad).
Gavin Campbell
>(though I remember Gropey mentioning something about 3 hours from me, which isn't too bad).
yes, hello.
Ryan Bennett
I'm up in PA right now, but might be down in DC pending job at graduation. Same as you, mace and shield. Never went with a 2 handed weapon though. I'm a few hours north of you, so it's a bit of a ways. But if I end up in DC its not too far. Doesn't DC have an ACL team?
Anthony Ward
Forgot to say, nice fucking plumes. Who made that helmet?
Adam Perry
DC Does. Got a pic of your harness?
Alan Bauldree of AB Hammer/Creation Time Armoury, out of Lousiana. One of the oldest American armourers, and the only man to make my helmets for the past decade.
Custom sized, late 15thC Italian close-sallet, in 12 gauge, heat treated, spring stainless, with a 14 gauge visor and neck lames. The padding is linen stuffed with linen and cotton, hand quilted by my mother, and the plume crest was made by my girlfriend.
Cameron King
I'd consider a helmet as your next peice after the gambeson. A spangenhelm (4 quaters of a dome riveted together with a nasal guard) is probably a good beginner helm to try make. Clouts make good rivets where only one side of the join will be visible.
Also pick a period to focus on, the medieval period is a long period that saw a lot of changes in equipment. Your Hauberk with a gambeson, spangenhelm accompanied by a round sheild and shortsword would be fine for a 10th century saxon. But don't add some 15th century Italian plate gauntlets to it.
Owen James
Only of some of my kit. The legs, doublet, brigandine, and mail are all up in PA. I brought some of it down to my parents for the holidays to hammer dents out. I can take a pic in a while.
Jeez 12ga spring helmet? Must be nice being literally fucking invincible. Love the neck lames. I've always wanted a 15th century kit. Past 3 years have had me laid up with bohurt unrelated medical problems that I hopefully am now relieved of. Want to get back into it, only reason I stopped. Hopefully back to the gym soon.
How much padding do you wear on your head. I always erred on caution and had a liner+hood+suspension. You don't sew your liner in?
David Nguyen
Frankly I'm not terribly worried about the particulars of a certain time period (but yes I'm not about to slap on some grunions and fluted pauldrons on this thing). I'm aiming for a rough amalgamation of armors from 10th - 13th cent; again, since I don't really have the time or cash to worry about plate right now I'm just adding a gambeson and some padded chausses + boots, plus a surcoat for fun. I'll definitely put some more detailed thought into the helmet when I get around to it though.
Bentley Evans
By the way I'm thinking of working a rider's cut into the front of this hauberk, it's connected and stops just above the knees for me so it ends up being kind of constricting for some deeper lunges. I take it this is relatively easy for butted mail?
Jeremiah Murphy
>Jeez 12ga spring helmet? Must be nice being literally fucking invincible Thats pretty common for US helms. We don't consider armour disposable like they do in Euroland.
And it still rocks my noggin. A Newfoundlander managed to put a decent scratch on the left side with his poleaxe.
>How much padding do you wear on your head One quarter inch of modern anti-concussion foam around the crown, as required by ACL rules, and then half inch (uncompressed) quilted tubes filled with cotton/linen tow.
>You don't sew your liner in? Nope, nor do I use a suspension system. My helmet fits me perfectly, as my armourer has a cast of my head. Technically, my chinstrap doesn't even do anything but keep the marshals from twitching. A close fitting helmet with padding that dissipates the impact will do more than any suspension.
Jackson Powell
Not-Gropey bohurt guy here. Yes. I did the same with my mail shirt as it was very long. Pair of wire clippers and pliers should do the job with no problem.
By the way, many Asiatic peoples used butted mail in real life. It would be very much more realistic to build an asiatic kit off butted mail than a euro-arab-african one.
Brandon Hernandez
if its only butted, you just need to open the rings with some pliers.
Elijah Brown
My helm is 12g mild 14g visor. I've used a friend's 14g spring helm and it was a fair bit better, so I figure the extra half millimeter absorbs quite a bit. Biggest difference though is the dents.
Does ACL require anti-concussion padding? Never used that, is it a relatively new requirement?
My helm is not form fitting at all. Never heard anyone complain. Does a tighter fit make that big a difference? The suspension probably is 1 inch, and about 1 to half an inch of padding. Maybe about the right size, maybe a bit too big. I should be able to get a better read next season when I'm ready again.
Oliver Butler
That's not a bad idea at all, I'm definitely going to keep that in mind for later projects.
Unrelated, why would (you?) suggest making sure to not choose a flat-topped helmet? Is that an ACL reg thing or are they just better at making sure you don't end up dead?
Eli James
>Does ACL require anti-concussion padding? Never used that, is it a relatively new requirement?
Its been on the books for the past two editions, and at least a year now.
>Does a tighter fit make that big a difference? Hugely, especially with helms that are shaped, rather than tubes. The "waist" of the crown, for lack of a better term, hugs the skull.
Unless you are particularly tall, flat topped helmets are atrocious for getting hit in from above. There is a reason helmets are rounded, glancing surfaces 99.99% of the time,
Ever hit a tent peg? Imagine the top of a flat helm is the face of the tent peg, and your spinal column is the dirt...
Alexander Reed
Yeah, flat helmets turn your skull into a nail, and the other guy is the hammer. Only time I saw a guy get a head injury was with a flattop that caved.
I haven't participated in years, so I suppose it wasn't a thing back then. Where would you get concussion foam? Does it just come in sheets or is it a finished product?
My helmet is hardly form fitting. Maybe I should look into a new helmet at some point...
Brayden Walker
>Ever hit a tent peg? Imagine the top of a flat helm is the face of the tent peg, and your spinal column is the dirt...
Duly noted, especially considering I'm a 5' 4" manlet. Perhaps the 14th century German Knight idea I was thinking about may be problematic.
Jace Myers
The ACL facebook page, and the ACL rulebook has links, various approved types, etc. Go look.
14thC German? Wear a Bascinet.
Caleb James
Plenty of 14th century helmets are rounded at the top. Bascinets are awesome, the one I have took a dozen direct blows from a 2 handed falchion. I recommend not getting anything like a great bascient bolted to the neck or cuirass, so your head can naturally jerk back from the blow and deflect it. Bascinets offer great protection and visibility. Germanic klappvisors look cool too.
Zachary Phillips
Bascinet sounds like a good idea, heck I could probably rejigger the mail hood this hauberk came with into an aventail.
Robert Mitchell
Alright I'm going to bed, thanks very much for the advice all, you've all been incredibly helpful.
Ethan Hernandez
Well, first off, any chain that isnt riveted isnt going to withstand much of anything and its heavy as fuck either way. If you want armor that is both flexible and protective you should wear brigandine armor. Although riveted chain is useful when draped down around the neck from a helmet for extra protection, I've seen it used to pretty good effect in that fashion.
Picking the right helmet is also a big deal. It basically comes down to a compromise between vision, protection and breathability, and trust me, breath-ability is important. Even a fairly well ventilated helmet can start to feel a little suffocating in a though fight. The more breathy holes and visor space a helm has the less protection it will offer, not a lot less, but enough that you might take some minor injuries you could have avoided, especially around the eyes, but having more holes will make the helmet much more comfortable to wear and give you better peripheral vision. Its really down to how mush you value your face, on the off chance the tip of a blade slips through. If you do go for a large visor, have some thin bars welded in along it to keep blades from slipping in.
Ian Hernandez
Motor cycle crash suits make for great padding. It'll slip right under your armor and guarantee a lot of safety
Blake Ross
From what I can tell, you'll want a copy of Price's "Techniques of Medieval Armor Reconstruction" (TOMAR to its friends), and then go see what's happening over at forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/
Adam Thomas
>Motor cycle crash suits make for great padding
No, they do not. They do not cover the right areas, and they are built to be destroyed by mass impact in order to dissipate force over your gross surfaces. Contact and impact sports like field hockey and lacross pads would work better, but its moot point, as they cost as much as proper historic padding these days, and are illegal by BotN/ACL/HMB standards.
Sup KM. Who's great Bascinet is that?
Logan Barnes
>see trailer about ACL, looks amazing >Go on a cut, drop about 80 lb, serious about this >Talk to a few important people in the organization, love the stories >can't really participate or do anything meaningful until I drop the 1800 (on the cheap end) for the hard kit >since seeing that trailer, my left wrist and lower back has gotten wonky (gonna see doc in January) >by the time I can afford it I'm going to be too banged up to actually play
Feels bad man
Adrian Foster
Jiri Klepac
James White
>my dad, being both loving and marginally impulsive, bought me a set of Amazon Prime-tier chain mail(le) for Christmas wanna meet that dad
Julian Gutierrez
>chain mail(le)
If you want to be historical, don't bother adding "le", drop the "chain" instead.
