Skaven society...how does it even work #2

Old thread.
Let's keep this train rolling.

>If a skaven was raised in a modern household, how much less of an asshole would it be compared to if it was raised in a regular skaven shithole tunnel complex?

self-obsessed egomaniac: ie typical millenia.

t.bitter 40 year old

>>If a skaven was raised in a modern household, how much less of an asshole would it be compared to if it was raised in a regular skaven shithole tunnel complex?- 0 post shown.
A lot less of an asshole, but still so much of an asshole that almost anyone but someone with the patience of a saint would kick them out.

Also, it would probably try to fuck a dog at some point

>Skaven
>Ever willfully being near a dog

I'd probably look at more sublte things that would draw the line between skaven and human: people that are "assholes" tend to have an actually fairly small collection of traits: the first big one is that they tend to have problems similar to ADD sufferers (mainly, worse ability for long term thinking, poor impulse control) combined with the second big one: a self centered attitude (lack of empathy or just a lack of objectivity about their life/circumstances). So a skaven would probably be more prone to both traits. That'd also make them more likely to develop narcissistic personality disorder, or just psychopathy in general. They're probably more prone to neuroticism in general, as well.

So a skaven raised in a human environment would be much more prone to be an asshole; its not a guarantee, as there are people that have these sorts of traits that turn out alright (it seems to be that genetic personality stuff can be avoided if they're not set off), but even a "good" skaven would more or less just be a skaven, except their behavior recontexualized and "justified" by whatever cultural norms / moral code they acquire. For instance, the backstabbery may end up only being inflicted on those who slighted them in some way in a narcissist fashion, or inflicted only on "bad" or "immoral" people in a psychopathic fashion.

These traits don't preclude someone from being loyal, good, selfless, or otherwise anyways: it just makes it much easier and simpler for them not to be. But a skaven that sticks by a troublesome moral code could end up behaving otherwise.

the other stuff beyond that would be things like black hunger (hungry skaven go bananas) and their prey mindset (more flight or flight faster than fight or flight impulses, which may actually keep them out of trouble). skaven may have a more alien mindset than im giving credit for, but skaven appear to be related to man in some chaos-y way or another so id imagine theres similarities in the boring shit

I'd probably look at more sublte things that would draw the line between nigger and human: people that are "assholes" tend to have an actually fairly small collection of traits: the first big one is that they tend to have problems similar to ADD sufferers (mainly, worse ability for long term thinking, poor impulse control) combined with the second big one: a self centered attitude (lack of empathy or just a lack of objectivity about their life/circumstances). So a nigger would probably be more prone to both traits. That'd also make them more likely to develop narcissistic personality disorder, or just psychopathy in general. They're probably more prone to neuroticism in general, as well.

So a nigger raised in a human environment would be much more prone to be an asshole; its not a guarantee, as there are people that have these sorts of traits that turn out alright (it seems to be that genetic personality stuff can be avoided if they're not set off), but even a "good" nigger would more or less just be a nigger, except their behavior recontexualized and "justified" by whatever cultural norms / moral code they acquire. For instance, the backstabbery may end up only being inflicted on those who slighted them in some way in a narcissist fashion, or inflicted only on "bad" or "immoral" people in a psychopathic fashion.

These traits don't preclude someone from being loyal, good, selfless, or otherwise anyways: it just makes it much easier and simpler for them not to be. But a nigger that sticks by a troublesome moral code could end up behaving otherwise.

the other stuff beyond that would be things like black hunger (hungry nigger go bananas) and their prey mindset (more flight or flight faster than fight or flight impulses, which may actually keep them out of trouble). niggers may have a more alien mindset than im giving credit for, but niggers appear to be related to man in some chaos-y way or another so id imagine theres similarities in the boring shit

grandma no

It depends on how much of Skaven personality is innate, and how much of it is due to the fact that they are half starved, abused from childhood, and high on warp-meth whenever they can get it.

My personal experiences with rats is kind of limited. The only times I've interacted with them is when a friend of mine had pet rats for a while.

I remember one of them really clearly. He was terrified of people, and didn't like to be held or handled. But when we were all watching TV, he'd sneak up and perch on the back to watch along with us.

Then there was another rat who just crawled up my chest, stuck her head in my mouth and started licking my teeth (apparently the tooth build up was quite a treat for her).

Non-warren Skaven that range from completely neurotic but really wanting to be part of a social group to absolutely no sense of personal boundaries at all, with the common thread that they really don't like to be alone, and will seek out other people no matter what would be a neat place to start from.

Building off of that, I remember a while back, that there was a thread about a flip flopped WHFB world, where the allegiences of Chaos and Order had been swapped around:

In that world, Skaven were way more like how Rats act, when properly taken care of, and were sort of like the mice from Redwall in that scenario. If I recall correctly, they were the original works of the Old Ones, rather than the lizards, who were swapped around to be more like their Aztec roots, with way more body sacrifice and raiding.

The Empire was one of madness and Chaos, as the petty cities became breeding grounds for the decadent and destructive tendencies of Chaos. Meanwhile, the noble and less advanced Northern tribes fought them with hit and run tactics, as the powers of the warp dissipated as Chaos flowed into the sinks at the ice caps of the world.

The Northerners and Skaven were helped by the Orks, who were more like a mix of Buddhist and Christian monks, who held great temples, and the Ogres, the last gift of the old ones.

I thought it was a novel, if a bit silly of a idea.

you know, pol shit aside...

there aren't any innate differences between human races, and yet the power of culture and the weight of past tradition can result in radically different behavior, beliefs, and demographic trends between peoples living side by side. you don't actually need racial innateness to have very, very different groups of people, who have mindsets that differ in deeply fundamental ways. Yet people just miss the fuck out of this entirely and you either get "blacks are just lazy/bad/ooga booga" or "all blacks are really just exactly like me and your crime statistics are racist". it feels like such a goddamn thin line to tread on when you say "well you can have a group that generally produces really shitty people without that group being to blame or being innately bad" and it really shouldn't.

shit happens with historical settings too. either women are -4str or you just pretend sexism isn't a thing in your medieval Europe setting and all bad people are created either because they're bad racists or because they got touched by some purple chaos corruption and now wanna eat babies or some dumb shit.

lots of smart people hate fantasy races nowadays for these reasons, but imo fantasy racial distinction, combined with an understanding of sociology. allows exploring some interesting questions like "what _really_ makes a human being, a human being", "are cultural norms dependent on the innate traits of a species or can they be translated from one to another, in the same matter as other objective concepts like mathematics?" and "shit man how would you relate to the world if you met an immortal perfect being while you were a rat dude with like a twenty year life span?" They make interesting stories, let you step outside your own head, and address questions that I think are really core and innate about the human condition.

this has just been something that always bothered the shit out of me. im probably just getting sentimental in my age.