I use to play 40k in 1994, old faggot.
Got out of it as you do, then I stumble upon this dudes youtube and im like "damn nigga" shit looks awesome, anymore good youtube 40k channels with nice quality battles?
Also do you think you could smash this dude in a game?
Why would you want to smash him?
He used to sell 40k models for cheap, online, to people in North America.
GW forced him to shut down his business.
Fuck GW. I'll take this guy out for a got damn beer.
Oh mate.. 40k is the worst it's ever been right now.
Things were going pretty good about ten years ago with 4th ed, then things started going downhill fast.
Current 40k is horrendously bloated and slow to play, brutal codex creep unashamedly pushes a short-sighted sales agenda and the tournament scene is more cancerous than my grandma's left breast.
The entire game is almost utterly devoid of any vague semblance of strategy anymore because it literally all boils down to who can build the best list by sneaking in as many of the latest releases and buying extra formation rulebooks.
They forced him, like everyone else, to actually have a physical store if he wanted to keep selling. Not just supplying North America from their web-shop.
I had a friend who worked at a local game store, was always pissed on how GW "demanded" stuff if they wanted to be a "official GW store". But having seen the flipside from a major Home-electronics store, I can honestly tell this is the strategy of just about any larger company. Samsung could barge through the door and say;
"if you want to sell our latest and greatest, you need a display board HERE! (point out a spot already taken... of course...), and you need to buy this display table (for a good $2500-$3000) only to show this fucking thing. Yea, thats right, just to get the right to sell our product! Deal with it!"
And GW isn't even near that standard. This is a slim market and a dying hobby, and I can honestly say I can understand that a company needs to make money and put up demands on their retailers.
I like the long war, I know Veeky Forums gives them shit for not talking like you're average nerd, and playing power lists. But they supply high quality battle reports you always learn from! On the other side of the spectrum you have Blue Table Painting, who really just plays for fun, but that has its time and place to. If your interested more in a fluff view, go with striking scorpion, high quality fluffy batreps, really well made and awesome terrain!
Personal opinions - the post.
>They forced him, like everyone else, to actually have a physical store if he wanted to keep selling.
Uh no, he had a physical store. They told him to take down his web store.
Ie, if you want to sell 40k, you can't sell it through the internet. Only GW can sell on the internet!
I thought what happened was they were making them dedicate more physical space in their store than they wanted to for GW. This was back when GW was doing all sorts of asshole shit like suing people. I bet today's GW wouldn't do any of that shit.
Well, as there are others who do, he must have been doing something wrong. Thus, he failed to live up to the demands as a retailer, and thus lost his rights to sell online for some reason.
If I got a product and I say "you can sell this so long as you abide by these rules that I have", like many companies do, and you fail do do so, then you cant sell my stuff. Its really that simple.
Its like fat persons trying to blame others for their overweight problems, when its really just down to themselves. As mat said, he himself quit his webstore as he FELT forced to do so, as he didn't think it was profitable enough anymore with the new rules GW had put up. Thus, he couldn't gain as much profit as before and didn't see the benefit in it really. What does he do? Blames GW, its obviously their fault....
>Using common company practice
>asshole move
So you say they wanted people who wanted a dedicated GW store, to actually sell GW? How dare they?!?! What a bunch of assholes!
Seriously though, read my comment on how a "real" company manages things, and you might broaden your perspective on what an "asshole move" is.
Dave is my bro.
Everyone hates on Matt because deep down they know they are just like him.
StrikingScorpion82 has good battle reports, with well painted armies and absolutely gorgeous terrains. Seriously, every time his terrains are flawless.
he does other stuff, like a few painting tutorials, reviews, and has even been noticed by GW on their official app when he made a review of art bought via WarhammerArt.
The fuck are you talking about faggot. Who mentioned "dedicated" GW store. They literally demand ANY FLGS that sells GW product to have X amount of square feet and X amount of product on their shelves. You can't just sell a little bit of GW, you have to sell even kits you don't want.
Well at least it provides variety. otherwise, it would be SM 90% of the time.
>putting stuff that doesn't sell on your shelves just for "variety"
>not just stocking it to the gills with whatever garbage sells most
Do you even profit
A couple of FLGSs here still have old doomrider boxes, from the 2e CSM codex.
>>putting stuff that doesn't sell on your shelves just for "variety"
As required by GW, because it's how they make their profit.
Yea Striking Scorpion sure is a real hobbyist. Great batreps with lots of lore and great battle fields! You can really tell he puts his heart and soul in to each and every miniature he makes. And he plays the teams he does, because he loves the esthetics and fluff rather than pure rules.
This is the meta I would love to play in. Where winning isn't the main objective of the playing session.
So you mean, they act just about as any other company? Oh... wow... what a bunch of assholes.
No company acts like GW.
Except maybe Apple.
GW is the Apple of Wargaming.
And that is not a good thing, since Apple makes overpriced BS and restrict you to using their stores, then shit all over their customers.
No, you retarded faggot, the whole point is that every other company doesn't force those kind of restrictions, or at least not to the same degree, as GW. There's a reason no FLGS has a complaint about WotC's demands, and you can just have a couple boxes of boosters on a shelf.
This guy fucking gets it.
GW is the only company that actively hates 3rd party retailers. They want people in their stores, or on their webstore. Fuck the community, fuck the FLGS, come suck a Red Shirts Cock while we ram Age of Sigmar down your asshole!
>I have no idea what I'm talking about
>And I brag about it
Dude, you need to go outside your little bubble and meet reality for once. Hell, just about any major corporation acts like GW... On crack!
As I mentioned above, companies have no problems putting demands such as "If you want to sell "coca cola, you need one of our refrigerators placed here!", or "If you want to sell our new Samsung phone, you will need to purchase this display table and have it right here (best spot in your store)". Or a theme more close at heart to us nerds, when our local shop wanted to start selling WMA colors, they actually needed to purchase a big fucking stand from WMA for $2500 (filled with colors sure... but still, thats a lot of money).
I can easily understand that you're the typical Veeky Forums basement dweller that rarely leaves the comfort of your home, because the world outside you're enclosed world is just a bit to grim for you to apprehend.
Lols, as a local business owner, I know exactly what the regs are.
GW's demands are unreasonable.
I work with Vallejo, Catalyst, Old Glory, GHQ, CnC, Iron Wind, Reaper, etc.
They couldn't give a flying fuck about most things (Vallejo just wants the paint stand stocked, which of course I would do anyway.)
2500$ stand of paint is cheap.
GW wants huge amounts of retail dedicated to shit that won't move. And they hate it when you sell online.
They really are the worst in the industry to deal with.
The reason is this my friend.
Before, there was no restrictions when selling this type of hobbies. GW is simply adapting to what other major corporations have been doing for decades.
>the whole point is that every other company doesn't force those kind of restrictions
Oh boy, you are just as deluded as the rest of the neckbeards.
>This guy get is
You really sure about that?
The guy is literally saying "no other companies" when in fact just about any major company outside our little world of board games does it. GW is simply adapting strategies of sales that any major corporation is utilizing, granted its on a small scale, but still.
>when in fact just about any major company outside our little world of board games does it.
Brand Marketing is what it is called.
It really only works if you have a massive grip on the market or foothold on the Industry.
GW doesn't have that grip.
GW's demands for Brand Marketing are way beyond what most major companies would do. For example, Coke generally supplies a fridge to a store, in return, you only sell coke products from your store. GW makes you buy all their crap, plus a huge stock of inventory (which has to be split between systems, so you can't just stock 40k, but have to put LoTR or some other BS up there) as well as front placement, etc.
GW took Brand Marketing and ran it through their greed machine to make the most consumer/business unfriendly piece of sales rules ever devised.
Oh, it's worse than that. You pay them something like $2000 and they send you stock. You don't get to choose any of it.
>you only sell coke products from your store
Note that because Coca-Cola/Amatil are fucking gargantuan, most of the plebs won't even notice.
Oh shit, CCA are Asia-Pacific only. Coke proper have even more squillions of brands.
I played in '94 too.
These are pretty good channels
youtube.com
youtube.com
40k is in the best place it's ever been right now. There's models for pretty much everything in the fluff and a great deal of freedom in what you put in your army.
>we should be thankful about GW adopting toxic practices from real companies
lol
The Long War
Tabletop Tactics
Frontline Gaming
Are my favorites after MiniWarGaming. They all have solid production values and a team of people that are putting in effort. Tabletop tactics has the most likeable people. The Long War guys are southern and a little bit douchy, but they're nice overall. Both The Long War and Tabletop Tactics do a lot of competitive lists and stuff like that, but Tabletop tries to mix it up with some fun stuff here and there.
Actually, this video has a good list of youtubers to check out.
youtube.com
You don't have to watch the video, but if you check the description it has a bunch of links to various youtubers. The guy in the video himself, aceface, also has some solid battle reports and videos.
Can confirm.
If you stock GW, you stock what GW wants you to stock, not what would actually sell. So you have tons of shit product that gathers dust (although GW says you have to dust it off) and then eventually GW relents and lets you sell it at a loss.
I will never deal with them again, bunch of greedy ass shit gibbons.
sweet man. I dont think I can afford a massive army, but whats the deal with kill team? small skirmish I take it, maybe ill start there.
If you really want to play 40k, pick up Dawn of War on steam. All the armies, for like 5 bucks.
second for SS82 and Tabletop Tactics. Both feature beautiful armies and scenery, but SS82 is more casual/lore oriented games while Tableptop Tactics is more of a competitive style.
Not that user and not complaining either.
I'm just commenting to say that I appreciate how many different people we have on this board.
On another note, what made you think GW hates online sale? Do you have experience with that?
>GW hates online sale
They hate online sales that are not made from their website.
>Things were going pretty good about ten years ago with 4th ed,
Everything after 2nd edition was shit, and your opinions are shit, and you are shit too.
>Muh herohammer
Go play 7th Edition High Elves you magical fuck.
Yes, I got that, but what brought you to this conclusion? I assume GW never sent you a letter with the words "u gonna not sell ou stuff online brah or we gonna get behind ther in 1 2nd to nock u the fuck out"
"You will sell at the prices we set, no discounts, no selling out of state, no selling to other countries, no multi-box discounts,etc"
They basically do everything they can to prevent you from running a store online. Most webstores are there to make it easier for the consumer, or to find a lower price. GW doesn't want to have anyone going to their store, then going to my store and seeing a cheaper price.
It's fucking BS and bad for the consumer.
That is definitely shit. One might think that GW didn't have to care about your pricing as long as you keep on buying their stuff. That takes away so much creativity and marketing strategy from the retailers
Their need to maintain a retail chain doesn't help.
I'd say fuck it, bring back the Outriders (Rogue Traders? Them guys what used to go around and hold tiny local tourneys at stores and give away merch), and let the redshirts pound sand. It would cut back on structural costs and allow more wholesale sales.
Their old strategy is, ironically, more suited to the modern social media environment than their current strategy.
Fuck matthew, he bitch about how dark and gory the lore of 40k is. He is a fucking pussy, fuck him.
oh and fuck dave too, he post pictures of miniatures on his IG without given credit to the artist. Just because they look "cool", so he can get the attention for himself.
In the UK a few hobby shops and places which sell toys have a small selection of GW stuff. Mostly just marines.
abandon 40k move onto better games like team yankee and bolt action
Man I miss those drawfags
Why not all three
I feel like 40k is in a better place then it was three years ago, maybe not ten, but the improvements are slowly trickling back in (discount boxes, fluffy army books, actual community support on facebook etc)
t. Warsaw Pact, German Fallschirmjager and night lords player
>GW doesn't have that grip.
if GW doesn't have that grip, how come it does? How come every single LGS which wants to sell wargames has to and does deal with GW's shit?
I don't see how anyone who has had adult hobbies before can really criticize GW. The hobby would have never existed had they not been able to open and run so many stores, hiring hundreds of employees compared to your average online retailer. That is why I buy from my local store rather than getting 20% off from an online store.
Stick to video games or film if you only want to spend peanuts or in most cases, nothing. Apple get's a lot of stick for its backwardness but it is another example of a company that hires thousands and offers good customer services.
>. The hobby would have never existed had they not been able to open and run so many stores
i am pretty sure you are retarded
Excellent argument, now go back to your video games.
> How come every single LGS which wants to sell wargames has to and does deal with GW's shit?
Don't generalize. There are a lot of stores that don't bother with GW. They tend to cater to an older crowd. 40k is still played in the stores, but there is no stock, owners just tell folks to look it up online.
Yeah once I had to enter the world of adult prices (car payments, mortgage, automobile hardware, insurance premiums, property taxes, federal income taxes, hell even kiddy shit like new computer parts) I became accustomed to viewing price tags in the hundreds instead of in double digits. If you see a $30, $50, or even $75 box from GW and think it's cripplingly expensive, you're still a child.
> If you see a $30, $50, or even $75 box from GW and think it's cripplingly expensive, you're still a child.
Correction.
If you see a 30, 50 or 75$ box, with limited models, when you know you could get more playing a different game for the same price, or better quality, or a more complete force, but still buy the inflated GW box, THEN you are still a child.
im the op fag and an aus fag. christ the prices are insane, how is this shit viable haha? how does the gw stores in oz make enough money to be open? interesting inflation.
That sounds more like lifestyle creep hitting your hobbies than anything else...
You realize other companies give LESS models for that price right?
>if you buy things you want you are a child
Tell that to people with luxury watches.
>You realize other companies give LESS models for that price right?
Wrong.
Using the price point of a box of tactical marines does not make for a strong argument. The average model price for GW is what should be used. And when you have single units going for 31 dollars or more, the average gets dragged to around 14~16 per figure, which is higher then industry average.
Not to mention, you can field entire armies in other systems for the price of one box of Vanguards in 40k.
The best approach is not model cost, it's "how much game am I getting per dollar"
Infinity, 90 bucks gets you a big tournament list. 100% game.
90 bucks in 40k might get you 20% of a tourney list.
Loved miniwargaming when I first found the youtube channel. Can't stand them now. Got tired of Matt being a faggot and Dave putting the camera in people's face and yelling. The Mountain is okay. I liked Jay when he was on channel but, now he's playing out of a home studio..
Tabletop tactics and strikingscorpion82 are the best 40k on youtube currently. I can't stand the long war's lists or the way they talk.
>Infinity, 90 bucks gets you a big tournament list. 100% game.
Yeah, but then your getting about 10-2 mono pose, tiny sculpted models.
Almost every GW model is designed in such was that they can be posed or modified easily. Entire army lines have interchangeable parts across multiple factions. GW model kits are worth more then just the individual models within.
>The best approach is not model cost, it's "how much game am I getting per dollar"
>Miniature war games are just only about the game
That's forcing GW models into a tiny box user, conveniently only one you care for, the majority of GW's buyer base are collectors first, gamers second.
>90 bucks in 40k might get you 20% of a tourney list.
50 bucks gets me a tactical squad and a fun as hell killteam game in.
> the majority of GW's buyer base are collectors first, gamers second.
Redshirt typing detected.
If that were true, you would only want single boxed figures, rather then multiboxes.
>The average model price for GW is what should be used. And when you have single units going for 31 dollars or more, the average gets dragged to around 14~16 per figure, which is higher then industry average.
That's not how averages work. Your army isn't 1 tactical marine and 1 HQ.
> GW model kits are worth more then just the individual models within.
Man, what drugs are you on man...
Next you'll be telling me the box is for more then packing the models in, because of the value of the cover art.
GW fans need to learn about Buyr's Remorse and Cognitive Dissonance. Opening up a 70$ box to find three models, and small models at that, must really be a jolt to the system.
How much does it cost to field a tournament legal force?
How much does one vehicle cost?
I guarantee you that 40k is still the most expensive, from pretty much any metric.
>Buying a singular tactical marine instead of a squad, which is the lore based formation.
>Implying collectors don't care about complete collections.
>Most models in units are also in lore described as units.
> Most singular models in lore ARE sold singularly.
So now we know you don't know what your talking about... good to know.
>strikingscorpion82
Isn't his stuff behind a paywall now? Liked the terrain and that he paints his minis but I'm not into the whole narrative battle instead of dice rolling thing.
GW literally changed their policy on online webstores out of the blue, for every one, for no publicly available reason. How the fuck can you be this autistic? Everyone knows about this, it was one of the most nonsense, confusing things they ever did. They literally banned everyone from selling their product, because they wanted to be the only online retailer,
>How much does it cost to field a tournament legal force?
>I still think the game is all that matters.
And this is why GW still dominates the market
>How the fuck can you be this autistic?
I ask that every time I read posts from people defending GW's actions.
>And this is why GW still dominates the market
Lols.
Xwing
Battletech
SW Armada
Malifaux
Infinity
Flames of War
GW has serious competition, they only 'dominate' in their imagination. They've pulled back so far from where they used to be, no one in their right mind would claim they dominate the market.
well if GW's rules made it that way, then it is thier fault.
Matt is so cringe to me that I can't even watch batreps with him in it. I don't know the guy, I just hate his stupid face.
When I started playing in 3rd, codex were $20 each, or less. Troop boxes were $30 or less. Land Raiders were the most expensive thing in the game at $45. GW has really hiked their prices up since then, for the same old shit. :/ We're talking an extra $20 for the exact same thing I used to get.
Can unconfirm
I love in a small town that has a hobby shop, they stock some warhammer and they will stock stuff that I specifically ask for from GW.
>defending GW's actions.
>in response to a post about GW being autistic fucktards and banning online sales.
For a moment, I think I had forgotten I was on Veeky Forums, this post reminded me.
You know what 40k has on every other tabletop game though? The fluff and the setting. I've looked into getting into other cheaper games, but I never went through with it because the lore is always garbage. The only thing that I was ever remotely interested in were Dropzone Commander (where the rules of the game turned me away more than the lore) and a game I can't even remember the name of, but it died. Had a wulfen race, a dark wulfen race, some kinda dark eldar like alchemist guys, anyone know what I'm talking about?
They stock what you ask them for, but they also have to always have other stuff their too.
If they are an official GW seller, they have to buy in to GW merch with a purchase for x amount of dollars, and GW decided what they send them. Everything else is their discretion, but you can't get around being forced to stock Age of SHitmar, LoTR, etc.
I agree with you to the point where now getting back into the hobby I would only consider buying miniatures older than say 5 years if I loved the sculpt or there hadn't been much of a price rise. Finecast has made the former point somewhat redundant now. I'm not going to buy Chaos sculpts from when I was first in the hobby or ugly Cadians that have risen something like 150% in price.
I'm perfectly fine with paying for new sculpts, especially in large boxed sets.
>You know what 40k has on every other tabletop game though? The fluff and the setting.
It's kind of cool when you start reading it at age 13. It's pretty boring when you hit 20 and realize that not everything has to exist in hyperbole. It gets worse when you realize that GW has written themselves into a corner with their lore, and nothing will ever change.
Frankly, grim dark is just grim derp to me now. I still like Battlefleet gothic because I like naval games and age of sail games. I play the video games because they inject life into the franchise. But the tabletop? Just a money sink that I don't find interesting.
Ah it was Confrontation from Rackham games. Also going through the lists on the wiki I realized no other tabletop wargame lives more than about 2-4 years, except GW games. Every other wargame has a very short lifespan, and a small fanbase. There would be nobody to play against unless you convinced a lot of your friends to get into one of them.
Nobody wants to play a game with less fans than Heroclix.
Bro why are you even here? You're obviously too good for us. Begone heretic.
>Also going through the lists on the wiki I realized no other tabletop wargame lives more than about 2-4 years, except GW games.
*Cough* Battletech *Cough*
The thing is, you could be talking to someone in the UK where these games are irrelevant. On the other side it is hard for people in the UK to understand the consequences of GW not dominating outside of the UK i.e. shareholders.
>WizKids
>Hex boards
>Target audience is kids
I think I'll stick to my grimderp thank you
That's fair. My experience is in the North American market. GW does not dominate over here by a long shot.
X-Wing and Warmahordes are the only real competition. Which is a shame, because Malifaux, Infinity, Bolt Action, DzC/DfC, and even Dystopian Wars/Legions are great games. I also like DUST Tactics and AT-43 before it died. Flames of War sucks though fuck that game.
Wait, you think Battletech is run by Wizkids? It's owned by Topps, and licensed to Catalyst. Wizkids has nothing to do with it.
And it is still around, being played globally, with a generally fun fanbase, with continuing fluff and storyline advancement.
Since 1984, putting it a whole THREE YEARS OLDER then 40k.
Why the flames of war hate?
I dislike the game as well, but I'm interested in hearing your reasons, since the game is popular as fuck over here in the Colonies.
I literally just read the wikipedia article on it, it's licensed by Wizkids.
And hex based games are not what I consider to be tabletop gaming. That's more of a board game. No thanks. Seniority over GW has nothing to do with it and you're making a useless point to an argument that isn't being discussed, but please get more defensive about it.
You're both right and illiterate.
As if who they're licensed by makes it any less of a board game targeted as kids.
But thanks for taking time out of your busy day to do research just for the sole purpose of calling people idiots. You're a credit to your race.
>hex based
Oh man, hex based. That's a good one. The rules for play have both hex based and miniature rules in them. You can play hex based to make it a bit simpler, but you are not restricted to it. It's just that Btech actually cares about movement and has detailed rules for it, unlike 40k which has almost no movement rules (every vehicle can turn on a dime, no penalty).
Let me get this straight
You guys come into a Warhammer 40k thread
To post about Battletech
And complain against 40k
And you expect good results?
Damn, that board kind of makes me want to play Battletech.
Are the non-hex rules different then the hex rules?
I took 30 seconds to check the wiki, read the first line of it, and follow it to the source. It took less effort for me to make that post than it did for you come up with insult.
>And complain against 40k
Most of the Btech players in my area are ex-40k, and couldn't be happier about it. Plus, if other gamers talk to 40k gamers, we get a better perspective of both games, rather then an echo chamber.
I had never heard of Battletech, which is why I researched it
You only did that so you could come back here and say "NUH UH THAT'S NOT TRUE"
You're still a fucking austist mate.