GW banning FW

"people would pay attention"
should be people wouldn't pay attention

So do GW stores not allow conversions, either? I thought GW stores were the original source of the 80% official GW minis rule that most tournaments seem to have.

The conversion makes the standard XV8 into an XV84 which is a forgeworld variant that isn't sold anymore, so i converted one with spare bits, owner got mad stating that while it looks the same basically it doesn't play the same, so I couldn't run it.

Your manager is a dick. Yet another good reason to not play in store.

>Forgeworld is all OP BS.
You don't know shit about forgeworld rules apparently.
>the winning 40k army is whoever has the newest release
Or GW rules.

Games Workshop has a long history of treating their players and store employees like shit, and of sabotaging their own products through products through rules that might have been successfully protectionist in the 80s but are essentially just roadblocks to enjoyment now. Is this the first time for you?

That's a pretty poor fucking excuse for banning any and all FW models just because Leviathan Dreads are murder on two legs.

I'm trying to get an invite to one of these things but how does this happen if you faggots never visit the FLGS because you have a better place to play?!

>tfw my completely vanilla space marine army has FW armor bits or vehicle armor kits on every single model

Well gee guess literally zero of my army is allowed in the store.

facebook

the internet

Blame it on GW.

They give the guys sales quotas or they get fired and close the store. But then the guys have to compete with FLGSes selling at actually reasonable prices (20% discount). They also can't have things in stock (like webstore only) if they aren't explicitly told to. They also can't put Forgeworld orders through the store.

For some reason.

basically stop giving GW your money

>inviting random strangers to your house over the internet

I take a different lesson: GW should get the fuck out of the retail business.

Of course, at this point, I think GW has either bankrupted or pretty thoroughly shat in the punch bowls of most remaining FLGSes so they're assfucked themselves.

>Not converting normie friends to our deviant lifestyle, thereby avoiding the fucking nerds.

>GW should get the fuck out of the retail business.
They cannot.

>TO: Redshirts
>FROM: GW Corporate
>RE: YOU'RE ALL FIRED, LULZ.
>SEE SUBJECT LINE.
>NO REFERENCES GIVEN.

Yeah and how the fuck they will sale Citadel painting and hobby tools, or their shitty board games, or Age of Sigmar without their own stores? GW stores one of the strongest tolls to promoting GW products.

I think tau should be banned even if its non-forgeworld.

And not just banned from GW stores.

>"what's 40k?"
>"it's like starcraft except with little models you paint and roll dice to shoot"
>"that sounds pretty fuckin cool"
>"yeah you wanna start an army?"
>"lol nah"

EVERY FUCKING TIME

Evens do not lie.

I wonder why.

>Starcraft: like $80, new, with all the expansions
>starter box for 40k, no paint, no glue, no clippers: $85
>anywhere from $300-1000 dollars for a fully painted 1850 army
>need to personally build and paint all of it

Funny, battletech or Infinity doesn't have that problem.

I wonder if it is because you only need to spend 60 bucks to play those games, unlike the 1000$ to play 40k.

Ironically...

$ per model wise, 40k is cheaper.

Metal models also suck to put together.

But those games have better rules, and 40k has suffered massive "size creep," with even Imperial Knights being normal.

Kill Team style is nice, though.

People won't play any game that requires them to paint shit.

Is it really cheaper though?

How much does a GW hero unit cost these days?

You don't make your entire army out of heroes. Every single skirmish miniature is nearly GW hero price.

Actually, it is my first time with this problem, i used to play battlefleet gothic, and only recently got into 40k so I haven't been playing much, well at least I can go to another GW that is only about 10 minutes further away than this one.
Yeah he wouldn't allow you to play them, kid you not.
Are they really that bad?
We have a guy who runs 3 WK at 1250 points
Aus doesn't have lgs that sell gw
we barely have any gs that aren't gw at all, kinda sad honestly.

>can buy $2 per model for marines and cadians
>"B-B-BUT HQS COST $20"
>metal figures from other companies cost $10-$15 each

What's the store user? I've had this problem too (Also NSW)

You don't have any friends?

Try lubing them up and then easing them into it.
>"I've got a cool boardgame, want to try it out"
>Oh you like how they look, here borrow this novel, it's pretty great.
>Why not just try putting together one squad
>Let's play this smaller version of 40k called Kill Team.
>How's 500 point games sound?
>When did you get a titan?

Space Marine Librarian: 30 Canadian Dollars
Infinity Model: 7.99 Canadian.

How is that even close to being the same price?

Wait, what Marines cost 2 dollars per model?

It's in sydney, if you want a bigger hint location it's south of the CBD, reply again if that fits your location and I'll supply exact location, or just tell me yours and I'll confirm or deny it. I'm now going to Hurstville since you can run FW there as long as you a copy of the book (put imperial armour vol 3 2nd ed on my phone from the mega in the 40k general) or the experimental rules available.
curious, anyone know if the halo wargame is any good? I loved halo wars 1 and 2 has microtransactions so fuck that, thinking of picking up the starter set.

I haven't played against them before so I can't say for sure but my GW store manager said he thinks they'll kill anything up to Warhound titans if they manage to reach them in CC.

rumor has it you can buy gift certificates from the store which you can use to buy forgeworld with. This way he gets his quota so to speak

Never bothered to find out if its true. Too little FW stuff to care

Bare in mind here that OP lives in AUS, so tac marines cost $6.50 per marine ($65 for the box) and hqs are all $26 minimum with the better ones being $39 which is fucking ridiculous

>$ per model wise, 40k is cheaper
Depends how compare them, of course tactical marines box will be cheaper per model against infinity 5 modeps box, but individual models CB is already cheaper, while GW prices for modern HQ models are usually +30$.

Store I asked about FW was the CBD store

Fuckin oath cunt, sounds more rapey than a space abo with a power boomerang.

The shitty snapfit ones. Actual marines start at $4.

His point still stands though - for the bulk of your army the per model cost of 40K isn't bad compared to the other popular games. Of course, you do need way more models though.

BaC and BoP tacticals. AoBR and DV starter snapfits should be even cheaper.

my gw is pretty relaxed and the manager often is genuinly happy when you show a cool kitbash.

He also said he is one of the better performing ones.....

twas ever thus

So what you fucking moron, you don't make an army of HQs. Compare average price per model, because any other comparison is retarded as fuck like your stupid disingenuous cherry picking "generic least expensive Infinity faggot" vs. "most expensive infantry in the 40k army".

Ah ok, I was told that the CBD store was good with FW, apparently not. Well if it's not too far head over to Hurstville for a game, it's the smallest store by far (legit about 12 metres by 5 metres by 3 metres) but it has a good community and FW is allowed, manager doesn't care if FW books are legit or not, not like he makes any money so everyone's happy.

And again, that's ignoring the fact that GW expects you to buy hordes of Minis.

Corvus is figuring you buy about 100$ for your army.

So all economies of scale come into play. If GW makes way more sales on one player, they can afford to discount some of the production.

CB makes a profit on the expectation that a player buys 100$.

So if GW and CB have identical prices for models, GW is still raking in way more profit due to lower production costs.

So price per model is a really shit argument. If the game expects me to have 50 models, I should be able to buy 50 models for a lot less then I currently can. And there is no excuse for GWs single model hero costs of 30+ dollars, that's just raping customers for profits.

>with the better ones being $39
More like $80.

Stay away from the Halo games (if you want to play a game that will be supported for a long time). They're done by Spartan, a company that ruins everything they touch with their ADHD.

Wraithknights rape them for cheaper.

idk where you are in NSW but i buy GW products from about 3 lgs's in brisbane city. NSW normally has more than QLD so im surprised you'd say that

He's full of shit. It's got four attacks and they're AP2. It's incredibly unlikely that it kills a warhound and the warhound just D stomps it in return.

More interesting question is how it gets into melee with something that's shooting four D blasts?

>lower production costs.
Not if you're comparing plastic models to metal.

Ok, explain this.

Tactical Squad: 10 Marines, 50 bucks.
5$ per model

Assault Squad: 5 Marines, 50 Bucks
10$ per model

Stormguard Vets: 5 Marines 60 Bucks
12$ per model

Captain: 1 Marine 35 Bucks
35$ per model

All of these models are the same size.
Where is the extra profit going on the higher priced models?

The thing is, every Infinity model is pretty cheap, when you compare it to the average model cost in 40k.

>Don't make an army of HQs
What do you mean?
The only way to play 1500 point games is a sqaud of 25 cadre fireblades, cbf doing the maths but that is alot of dakka from 1500 points.
talking about space marine solo hqs
Tau commander-$85
karamazov-$90
SM Command sqauds-$55+
Farseers-$56
IG command squads-$41
Bloodthirster-$170
Fuck that shit

>Compare average price per model, because any other comparison is retarded as fuck like your stupid disingenuous cherry picking "generic least expensive Infinity faggot" vs. "most expensive infantry in the 40k army".
Lol no, compare different by content box is more retarted.
Infinity Azra'il - 17€
Warhammer mapegaboss - 24£

Do you think GW really pays more in production costs? Whatever they might pay, they recoup probably 10 times over.

40k is overpriced. Anyone with a basic understanding of mathematics and common sense can see that.

They all have a similar really high cost for producing the mould.

Some of those kits are going to sell far fewer units than the the others so the cost of the mould must be covered by fewer sales.

OP here
All of the lgs stores in NSW that I know of stopped stocking GW stuff, idk why they just did. lgs run alot of 30k tournaments even though they don't sell anything gw/fw related. There was a 30k tournament in the lgs next door the gw I was at today, manager said he doesn't like 30k since it's forgeworld.

refer to this for the autism pricing of AUS

俺のと違うな、タウVSケイオス、苦戦の為撤退支援XV104などバトルスーツ4機で少数突破部隊を向かわせる、ティラニッド接近、時間無く、だがスペースマリーンかつての友人のヘルムとスケルトンヘッド回収にケイオスに戦いを挑みに参戦、ケイオスのボス倒すもティラニッド襲来、ケイオスとティラニッド交戦、マリーンとタウ、基地に爆破セット撤退、爆破後、両者目的達成一時停戦撤退

damn man it might be a state thing, idk if NSW would have passed any laws that would make stocking even harder than it already is

>Some of those kits are going to sell far fewer units than the the others so the cost of the mould must be covered by fewer sales.

So, what you are saying is that price per model is a stupid argument to make...

Like I've been saying all along.

No, I'm saying that volume will have an effect on the cost of plastic models that does not have an equivalent with metal or resin models.

As for the cost of a playable force, of course 40K is going to be more way expensive than skirmish games.

>volume will have an effect on the cost of plastic models that does not have an equivalent with metal or resin models
Whats so different about producing plastic models?

converions and even scratchbuilds are kosher (at least at the few GWs here in auatralia I've actually been to). Only no no is 3rd party majority or whole minis.
Using say Pig iron minis heads on guardsmen would be fine.
Using napoleonic soldiers with aquillas stuck on not so much.

>using chinacast FW models
>almost all my army is chinacast FW
Anyone actually care about chinacast FW?

Moulds for ten metal models costs ~£100. They don't last forever but they last long enough to be pretty close to irrelevant. There is a fair amount of labour involved in producing them but that is a per model cost so it makes no difference if you produce a lot or a few.

Moulds for a plastic squad cost £10-20K. You have to forecast the sale for that unit carefully and spread the mould cost over those forecasted sales. If you expect to sell half as many then you need to get twice as much of the mould cost into each sale.

its not. but you're space amrine army is going to have maybe 1 librarian in it but a few dozen regular marines that come in at $5 a peice.
40k character minis are expensive, but you don't have many and they're for the most part just an optional purchase. There's no reason you can't just make your characters out of the regular infantry kits if price is an issue.

over all a 40k army is better value in terms of models per $, sure it costs 3 times as much but you're putting 5 times as many minis on the table.

Not that guy, but the cost of molds is somewhat higher than for metal or resin (though I believe the price has come down from the days they costed the same as a new car). Basically this means you better sell the product to cover the starting costs, in long run and big sales figures it's really cheap.

You forgot that once the initial cost of the mould is done, the price for materials vary.

Pewter/Resin: Expensive per model, cheap(ish) moulds.

Plastic: Pennies per model. Moulds expensive, but basically indestructible.

So the initial investment is higher for plastic, but the production cost is staggeringly low.

If both players agree that FW is allowed then the shop manager shouldn't be telling them what they can and can't use. FW is official GW merch with official rules.

Of course with it being GW, they are complete asshats about everything and I wouldn't put it past them to ban their own products in their stores and make impositions on players about which rules they're allowed to use.

No-one should play at Games Workshop anyway. Seek local owned gaming shops and tabletop game clubs if you want to actually enjoy the game.

Generally not much, just don't go talking about your counterfeit minis in store.

Ok, different question then.

What is the standard tournament point size? Right now, using the GW US Store, how much would it cost to make that army, just in models (no paint/glue etc).

I don't play 40k so I don't know, but I'm curious.

Battletech Tournament level:
Lance (4 mechs): 50$
Company (12 mechs): 150$

The latter is a huge game of battletech.

Infinity, 300 pt (Big) tournament
14 or so models 110~130$ ish

I'm honestly curious to see how WH40K compares cost wise for a standard tournament list.

>40k army is better value in terms of models per $

R u fucking serious?

Their overall yearly profits are only in the region of 10-15%.
They can't afford to have the minis much cheaper than they are.

NSW where?

just got back from GW Newcastle

Yes, once the mould is paid for which is precisely why you have to make more of that cost back on each sale of lower volume kits.

Why do you think that low volume kits go years without refresh while high volume kits get refreshed regularly?

Maybe they just have a crap business model, like maintaining brick and mortar stores...

The point is - metal models cost pretty much the same regardless of how many you sell.

The cost of a plastic model varies wildly depending on volume of sales.

Why is it so much more expensive to make plastic moulds?

Yes. You get more models for the same money.

10 space marines for 40 dollars retail goes down to $4 a model. Infinity models will never go under $8 a model. Therefore, per model, 40k is a better value.

However, you need 100x the 40k models compared to Infinity, or you need more larger models like tanks and giant robots. Therefore, the money you need to play the game is less, even though the models cost more.

For maximum cost effectiveness, use 40k models to play Infinity.

Yeah, Brick and Mortar, really anything in meat space, costs a lot of money to maintain.

I have a storefront to promote wargaming as a hobby, tables to game with in back, racks of product up front, but mostly it's my relationships with numerous game designers, and ability to bring in new systems/models for my client base that keeps me in business. I can adapt to trends, if I had GW in my store, 1/4 or it would have to be devoted to them, and there's no guarantee of sales. I can't offer discounts to draw in customers, only what GW says I can do.

In battletech, every year I host a "Solaris 7 March Madness" We run a big ranked tournament on the tables in the back, everyone gets one pilot, they can upgrade with sponsors/abilities, etc. They can trade up mechs, sell old ones, it is great fun. I have a group of 3~5 good painters who paint new mechs for people on the spot, for a nominal fee, and I pay the painters for their time as well (15$ per hour they sit there). I run the 'mech store' and drop prices on light and medium mechs by about 40%, provided you play in the tournament that day.

Despite me taking a loss on the sales of those mechs, paying the painters, I make a huge profit every weekend we run it, because it draws a crowd, and they by other stuff. Regulars love it, new people get introduced to the hobby.

Fucking fun.

GW is the antithesis of that.

Did you report him for it?

Buying from GW in Aus has been prohibitively expensive ever since the company was sold out to the man.

I haven't bought much from them directly since then. I get three times as much for my money the way I buy.

As games grow in popularity, they expand in size. You can still play 40k at skirmish level.

Injection moulds are machined from steel.

Moulds for metal minis are poured high temp latex.

You can do metal or resin casting at home, it's pretty cheap and easy to get started.

That why all of the small companies do metal and resin unless they have a good kickstarter to pay for the moulds.

fellow Aus?

how do you save money on little plastic men?

Well if i pay more but end up with relatively even more minis then yes, it is better value.

My 40k army is a relatively typical marine force with 47 dudes and i spend about $250 on it.
My Pan O squad for inifity is 12 guys and cost me ~$100.

40k is better value as far as minis goes.

Bypass the man

Note that "cheap" and "easy" are relative to this being an industrial process.

No, you probably will never be able to cast 25 cent space marines in your own basement. It isn't impossible but you're going to have to be making chapters and chapters of of them to get your per-unit cost that low.

The problem is that you then have 40k models. *shudder*

>t. redshirt