/STG/ - Star Trek General

>what is encryption

I'm not saying that the Romulans didn't get valuable information. But it's very likely that in the short time that they controlled the ship they weren't able to interact with her encrypted databases. So key details about the ship and her development were unavailable, hence why the Romulans wanted to get her back over the border. If they had been able to just download all of her information then they could have just slipped back over the border in a cloaked shuttle.

Funny thing about borg tech in STO.
We hate Tal shiar for studying it while still flying in ships like this ourself.

That's because the Tal Shiar don't know what they're messing with (or, more likely, know, but don't care). Meanwhile, the Federation has experience doing it safely (Delta Flyer has Borg tech). Doesn't help that the Tal Shiar is using the more evil parts, like experimenting with body mods and assimilation in general.

Finished TOS and the TOS movies. Watching TNG. Obviously I've picked up a few things about the universe, but I see people rattling off absurd amounts of lore and shit. How does one even learn that?

Also, are the books canon, and how good are they?

>body mods
>inherently evil
What. Tattoos, subdermal implants, prosthetic limbs, etc., are all evil?

So is the end game for the Trek setting after the TNG era going to be like what happened in Babylon 5? Where everyone and their grandmother will try to stitch superior tech into their current shit and hope they don't royally fuck something up while doing it?
>TFW Earth spaceship skinned in Shadow tech....EWW!

It's ugly and tacky because Trek exists in visual media and vidya. It could just as easily be more subtle, like darker gray hull plating, and muted green nacelles, impulse engines, and drflectors.

Essentially.
Hell, the last stuff to grind in the game are the reputation tiers which give you access to stores where you can buy some anti-X forces special equipment which is made 20% of Feddie/Klink/Rom tech and the rest is made of the tech of the shit they are killing there.
Also omega particles which apparently when detonated, are supposed to wipe out entire star systems and create an area where you cant warp travel.
That shit is used in some rare and VERY good upgrade tokens.

You just described the hull modifiers of Delta quadrant tech.

>rattling off absurd amounts of lore

I've been watching Trek since I was four. You pick up on this stuff over time. Occasionally you retain something because it's so absurd, offends your sensibilities, or is too ridiculous to forget.

>books canon?

Nope. But neither is the Starfleet Technical Manual, the TNG Technical Manual, the DS9 Technical Manual, or any of the RPG supplements.

In my opinion, it doesn't ultimately matter. Take what you like, and run with it. Just bear in mind that TV shows/movies may contradict other sources (and even themselves occasionally).

Dropkick the encrypted files back to a listening post, let the Tal Shiar decode it at their leisure. I'm not saying they could've been able to get every design detail and trick that Fed R&D had come up with, but even a glance at the MSD probably would've been an eyeful of military secrets.

That's the endgame of STO at least; is me making the point that trek doesn't suddenly turn into OPplsnerf after DS9 or the TNG films' time period. Also, your pic related looks like a marital aid.

>Also, your pic related looks like a marital aid.
It's B5 shadow tech that just been slapped on something.
>TFW yes and your point is?
youtube.com/watch?v=wk3ro-QEiBg

>that breen skin
STILL MAD. So damn lazy with the UV mapping. Sad, when the rest of them are so sexy.

Yet again, if they could transmit the encrypted files to a Tal Shiar base for code-braking then why even bother to hijack the ship. The files are likely completely inaccessible, kept in a seperate database to the ship's general programming. The Romulans have no way to access the files to transmit them in the first place. The most valuable information they've likely been able to transmit is ship movements and IFF tags for various Starfleet vessels. But those are things they could acquire from a Runabout or a Miranda.

D-did you actually read the rest of the post, fampai?

All the schematics in the galaxy won't give you a 100% complete picture of how the ship works in practice. Plus stealing the ship itself means that new starfleet has nothing to show for a presumably costly R&D program from their next generation starship.

you're implying that, without prior access to the database, they could just send the files via subspace transmission. But if they don't have acess to the files in the first place, then they can't load them into a transmission. It's like trying to move a file out of a folder you don't have admin permission for. You don't know what's in there because you can't even open the folder. Nor can you move the folder or duplicate it. Short of spoofing the adminpass, you ain't getting at those files. Which is presumably why they need to bring the ship into romulan space.

At the end of the day, the Romulan's scheme is a PR embarrasment to Starfleet and a mild inconvenience to logistical planning and starfleet intelligence. The Romulans don't have blueprints, nor any of the restricted information for the project.

apologies I meant for

Yes

On what basis?

I'm guessing the most detail they could get ship-wise was what the doctor could get which was just a very general overview. And the files could have been booby trapped like blowing the whole computer core if they were removed improperly.
>TFW the MSD ain't that special it's slightly different to other ships of its sizes just with more shit cramped into it than usual.

You don't NEED a 100% complete picture of how the ship works in practice, because for a ship like the Prometheus every bit of it is information that can't afford to be compromised. Why the fuck would the amerifats, squints and russkies be so obsessive about media getting access or taking photos of their newest toys, if you could only devise a counter to them by stealing the entire thing wholesale? By sending sensitive information, I don't mean rooting around in the database for Super Secret Federation Enigma Codes, I mean that on a ship as fancy and far ahead of its contemporaries as the Prometheus (MVAM, and the fact that it rekt three warbirds while completely unmanned save for three EMHs), pretty much everything bar the replicators are probably going to be restricted information.

PARANOIA! and mostly PR
But in the Trek setting, it is lots of guys playing poker and bluffing heavily mostly.

Your still ignoring the central question of why would they be able to send a bazillion gigaquads of data over a non-trivial distance with the subspace transmitters they had available, encrypted data or not? Most likely scenario is that they send over an incomplete set of specs before their signal gets jammed by a starfleet intelligence who now know exactly where they are. Your comparisons to modern cyberwarfare aren't wrong, but by the same token the use of (subspace)radio silence has just as much merit.

That and that user forgot just how big a file that could be. They might have needed the deflector disc and whole shit ton of power to send that data back home. It is possible that kind of access and mod was not available to them. So they had to take the whole thing with them if they wanted the info.

It makes them look evil

>friend had to have both her legs amputated for medical reasons
>mfw "wearing prosthetic legs is evil"

Also tattoos can be sexy as fuck.

In trek, you don't need prosthetics, they can just regrow you some new limbs as we've seen with Nog during the war when his leg was blown off.

But if you forgo that and get yourself some super robot legs so you can run and jump faster than a normal human, now you're a nazi scumbag worth only of Picard's disappointing glance and Worf's whispers of your lack of honor for daring to be more through artificial means.

There would have to be some kind of horrible downside like Geordi's visor where you can never see things normally and have it fly off in the most gentle of breezes leaving you horrifically useless, also women will never love you and only an android will be your friend.

So all that time Gordie could have had new real boy eyes, the things he always wanted, with no complications and just a simple medical procedure? I'm calling either bullshit or criminally inconsistent writing.

Also Picard let a world die, nearly let a 2nd world die, tried to abduct a colony of people off a planet against their will, guilt tripped Riker into letting a little girl die, didn't say a word about Riker beaming down to a planet and murdering a bunch of dudes in their sleep, denied trillions of people the fountain of Eternal Youth and Health, let a bunch of terrorists abduct the ruling council of a planet for shits and giggles and refused to potentially save quadrillions of people from the Borg because muh feelz.

To say nothing of that piece of cold dead metal that beats in his chest.

His disappointment is a sign that this is the right path to take and I would bask in that glance like the first rays of warm sun after winter.

Also Worf would be a hypocrite given that his spine was grown in a jar by completely artificial methods.

>What would the amerifats have done if some squints or russians had stolen a YF-22? Certainly not have put the type into service

I guess you're aware that the Chinese J20 and J31 are both heavily influenced by what the US considers stolen dev work from the F22 and F35 programs, but that given the lead time to design these new fighters it simply isn't practical to mothball them *while the potential enemy has two similarly advanced aircraft*.

The truth is that these craft will all, in the event of all-out war, rely on weight of numbers, not technical tricks; those tricks will come into play - severely reducing but not eliminating losses of 5gen fighters in that potential war compared to losses of earlier classes, which is why Russian efforts are focused on asymmetrical forms of war instead because they can't afford new fighters to update their own fleets - but they're not so vital or amazing that their being compromised means the war is over, chess-style, before it is begun.

>any enhancements make you a Nazi
Are you serious right now? How do they even make you authoritarian, much less a fucking Nazi?

Because this is star trek and Kahn and his ilk ruined everyone's fun a couple hundred years ago so no kickass bionics, gene modding or similar are allowed.

>criminally inconsistent writing
You're new to Trek, aren't you?

user, why the SHIT are you being so triggered when people say Trek would look down on body mods that remind people of the fucking Borg? Did you literally just come into this thread to find a reason to sperg out, or are you genuinely autistic enough to be this blind to context?

I'm not confused about why the Federation and so on would look down on that shit. I'm confused about why at least one user in this thread seems to think that shit is OBJECTIVELY evil.

Speaking of the Borg, aren't there some free Borg in STO or something?

He's probably got full-body tattoos and stuff and can't live with the guilt and shame, so takes it out on others, just like roasties and other degenerates.

>free borg in STO

There are. There's Three of Eight on Nimbus III, there's the Borg Cooperative, there's Gaius who serves on the Romulan flagship, and a bunch of others.

After Voyager fucked their shit right up the Collective started to break apart with huge numbers of drones getting their minds back.

Subsequently there were s shit load of Liberated Borg spread pretty evenly across the galaxy. One of them owned the infamous Worst Trek Film bar on the shit hole planet Nimbus with another acting as a bouncer.

>seems to think that shit is OBJECTIVELY evil
[citation needed]
All they said was that body modification and assimilation are the more evil parts of Borg technology (as in, sticking your dick in the prosthetic plasma gun instead of sticking it onto your ship). You then proceeded to throw a shitfit because what even is context.

>free borg in STO
You seriously think the UFP, a society which banhammer'd genetic modification because ONE of its members keeps crying "m-muh 300 year old bogeyman", will suddenly become accepting and open towards former drones because you started waving a #NotAllBorg placard around?

Just finished rewatching "Looking for Par'mach in All the Wrong Places" and it turns out that I had entirely forgotten that O'Brien and Kira nearly end up in a secluded, romantic getaway for a week, what's more that they're actually not all that opposed to the whole Idea. How did I ever forget about that? It never comes up again but I feel like that's got to be a huge sore spot between them.

I was disappointed that never went anywhere. My personal backstory is that Keiko's suspiciously long lived Japanese mother (she gave birth to Keiko in her 60s if she turned 100 during DS9) had the maiden name Saotome and thoroughly enjoyed that whole plotline.
>MY SON IN LAW IS SO MANLY
>[celebratory fan dance]

They do have chemistry and both have been traumatized by and have similar hateboners for Cardassians. They're also both similarly bound to inhuman creatures: The evil spirit known as Keiko and Odo.

...

Miles is the man every woman really wants. In Kira's case, he's by far the most interesting man she's ever gotten that far with.

The best bit is that she genuinely was possessed by an evil hate ghost.

Nobody noticed.

The only difference Miles noticed was that when she returned she was more affectionate and forgiving. He had to be told directly by her and given a practical demonstration.

Introducing them was the only malevolent thing Data ever did.

I can see Miles getting shitfaced and shouting "WHEN THE WALLS FELL" every time Shakaar's name comes up until Kira looks up the mission report herself. She'd never be able to look Shakaar in the eyes again without laughing.

It's those worstgirl-anime-lead genes coming out. That stereotype exists for a reason.

I like to think of it as Data's first attempt at a joke.

I like to think it was Lore impersonating Data because I don't want to think that Data would inflict something so horrible upon a friend 4 teh lulz.

Why do people dislike Bajorans? I quite like them as a race. They still have a national identity, bound by 60 years of intense hardship. They still have their faith, something rare enough in Star Trek to be remarkable. The falls andfoibles of their Military and political strata are clearly influenced by real world examples that give their exploration meaning. To me, they're no less interesting than the Cardassians. If anything, the 2 races work much better together. But, so often, I hear people belittle them as irrelevant or contrary to the Federation. Isn't their contrariness a good thing? A way for them to come into cconflict with the de facto good guys?

Thoughts, lads?

It might be that the Bajorans seen to have a sense that they are more important than everyone else when their culture is shit, or was shit. The Cardassians did a good job freeing them of their stupid backwards caste system that held them down for at least 20,000 years.

I don't dislike them, but they're pretty much a placid, doe eyed people who don't act unless the Prophets tell them to. They become proactive ONLY when Sisko shows up, and even then they're fighting the upheavals the Emissary is pushing them towards with all their heart.

A combination of typically overdone star trek preachy combined with one too many episodes where bajoran characters had their misdeeds conveniently overlooked or even ignored entirely. Many examples of this involve episodes where their commitment to "the old ways" would occasionally boarder on luddism while still having about a three out of five chance of the episode treating them as being entirely within the right. Their hardly the sole examples of this sort of thing of course, but given how persistent and central they were to the show its pretty hard to ignore.

Part of it has to do with some of the way later seasons of DS9 were written. The Bajorans were put into an arbitrarily hostile role towards the Federation to stir up drama, but it didn't really serve any purpose otherwise. The writers were really trying to push the "Federation is actually evil, it just looks nice so nobody notices" angle, which is so directly contrary to everything else in ST that it didn't really come across properly. The Federation were still the good guys, and the Bajorans were just being shitheads.

That said, I wish the interplay between Cardassian and Bajoran culture had been explored further. Nobody even really mentioned the fact that their cultures have deep underlying similarities once you get past the superficial stuff.

>The writers were really trying to push the "Federation is actually evil, it just looks nice so nobody notices" angle, which is so directly contrary to everything else in ST that it didn't really come across properly.
Yeah I hated that personally. If anything, it should have just been the Federation's governmental apparatus being utterly feckless and incapable of governing properly, rather than the Federation as a whole. Sure living on the Core Worlds would insulate from a lot of the theoretical growing pains of a civilization, but for chrissakes, the Federation has replicators on a scale that's light years (heh) beyond post scarcity. How bad could the rest of the state be, excluding newly joined planets?

The slavish devotion to a bunch of wormhole aliens probably rubs people the wrong way. There's beings like Q and the Douwd running around but they've chosen to build an entire society/religion around obfuscating aliens that can be killed by deflector dish bullshit.

My impression was that the federations "evil" is the sort that comes about from people who have nothing but everyone's well being at heart. Take your point about replicators, the feds have plenty of examples of people misusing the things, so their solution is to restrict access to "untrustworthy" cultures /just in case/ they decide to print up guns and tanks instead of food and housing. I believe there was even a TNG episode where they mention that the antivirus they were synthesizing for a particular planet had to be tightly monitored to prevent some hostile faction from weaponizing it. That's an entirely reasonable concern, but how would that concern look if that same planet had been wiped out because their medical ship had been caught in some anomaly or another before they could avert that disaster?

Its definitely a form a social inequality, its just that class lines form around how well the feds trust you to do the right thing rather than wealth or nobility. The fact that the "haves" literally live on entirely different planets than the "have nots" is how it goes unnoticed.

As , pointed out they were space sub-continent Indians which were so backwards in their beliefs. That the Carddies invading and taking them over was an improvement at the beginning over what they had. They stopped the class bias, made them work together, built schools, and get them educated. Then the Bajorians got uppity and then their planet turned into a cross of current Syria/Israel. It is kind of their own fault if they had just ditched their religion like the Cardassians did it would have been fine.

Considering how easily replicators can be modded and hacked into "this machine spits out 70,000 phaser rifles with FUCK EVERYBODY settings," the Federation's reaction is totally justified. Hell the Maquis making off with just two industrial replicators essentially gave them their own fleet of ships. On the other hand, I feel like it's mostly the writers' fault for making the TNG period Federation act as if they had the power of life and death over cultures that weren't part of the Federation, and just to apply the exact letter of the Prime Directive at every instance. Meanwhile, Kirk's era had it applied sensibly, and even the TNG bible was much the same.

The better question is why are other Star Trek cultures immune to the same criticism that the Bajorans get? After all, Bajor has problems, mostly stemming from the poor exploration of their faith and spirituality. But nearly every other race in trek views themselves through rose-tinted glasses.

The Federation preaches respect for other cultures while imposing their morality on every culture they encounter. Not to mention the prime-directive permitting genocide by passivity.
The Klingons preach honour and bravery when they seem much more at home using Romulan-worthy ambush tactics and rewriting history to fit their narrative.
The Cardassians preach selfless duty to the state when their entire hierarchy is a constant power-grabbing, self serving ladder. Garak, most people's favorite Cardassian, freely acknowledges that their society is fucked on numerous occasions, given the opportunity to be an outsider looking in.
The Romulans are a cookie-cutter failed dictatorship, constantly scheming at things it can't possibly hope to achieve. (Seriously? you thought sending 6000 soldiers to Vulcan would somehow oust the entirety of the Federation from the Surface?)

pretty much the only "exactly what it says on the tin" society in Trek is the Dominion. They conquer you and so long as you keep in line they don't murder you.

I don't dislike them. The problem is that Trek either uses them to be preachy, or it shows us the bad ones to the exclusion of the good ones who never bother anybody, and get on with their lives worshiping the prophets in peace.

DS9 has this weird thing where we get shown a lot of sympathetic Cardassians and are told effectively, "not all Cardassians are warmongering murderers" and on the other hand, we're shown Bajoran zealots, terrorists, criminals, and war criminals.

The Cardassians didn't really ditch their religion, though. They just started worshiping the dual tenets of law and treachery. They have as much religious fanaticism as the Bajorans, if not more so. Every time a Cardassian is shown how the occupation actually functioned rather than just reading about how they were going to enlighten those crinkly-nosed barbarians, they have a very legitimate crisis of faith.

>The fact that the "haves" literally live on entirely different planets than the "have nots" is how it goes unnoticed.
That reminds me Tasha home planet, human colony that fell into barbarism. How the fuck does that shit fly in the UFP? I assume it's a Fed planet how did nobody go there and reestablish order when shit hit the fan? IT'S THE UFP JOB TO MAINTAIN ORDER OVER THEIR OWN CRAP! That was so stupid as a thing they used as Tasha's background. It would have been better if she had been sold into slavery by Klingon pirates and liberated later after a few years.

I really don't think Tasha's background can be defended.

So I won't try.

This all comes from people not thinking things through.

>tl;dr there can be good people, there are no good organizations.
Hell, even look at the Vulcans they seem good logical people on the surfaces. But as ENT showed they were just as corrupt, bias, and racist as anyone else when you got to political matters.

"Turkana IV was the inhabited fourth planet of the Turkana system and the site of a failed Earth colony. Turkana City was one of the settlements on this planet.

The planet's government began breaking down in the 2330s. Dozens of factions developed, and civil war broke out. The Turkana government gave police powers to the two largest factions, the Coalition and the Alliance, but it was quickly overthrown by those cadres, and the planet broke away from the Federation in the 2350s, the two factions declaring the planet's independence."

That is why it was a shithole.

Oh absolutely. But they've been around longer and have been all talked about to no end.

Here's something to consider. Who is in control of the Federation? Humans make up the face, but the rules all seem oddly Vulcan. Distant, cold, "logical". This is especially odd since the founding races are "fight me, faggot" Andorians and "fuck you shitlord!" Tellarites. Where'd all the passion go that was still there in Kirk's era?

From what I've gathered in later episodes, you can not be human and not part of the Federation. Even lost pre-fed colonies came under Federation jurisdiction meaning Picard couldn't just ignore them/hide behind the Prime Directive when inconvenient shit needed to be done. Example: Cartoon Irish/Clone colony and later the Masterpiece society

There is literally no excuse for not rushing out to Turkana and getting shit fixed.

The UFP is very much like the EU (and, to a lesser extent, the UN). It works, sort of, to help all of it's citizens, sort of, and to imply a unifying culture over all of them, sort of, whilst condemning corruption and evil, sort of, and striving to make the right decisions, sort of.

The UFP is so drowned in asterisks and technicalities that trying to figure out what they're really about is nigh on impossible.

Now I'm well aware that the Federation was originally created to be space-america, but beyond some perfunctory cold war circle-jerking about the intrinsic values of freedom and routine references to americana, there's not all that much to link UFP.

>"sort of"
I laughed, and then I didn't because it's entirely true of all three of them.

If that was happening with the clear breakdown of legitimate government power. Shouldn't the UFP stepped in at that point to reunify the planet. Since it wasn't a united planet anymore, it declaring independence from the UFP should have been invalid from the Fed's point of view. Or that's what I have been lead to believe watching episodes where planets want to join the UFP and that's one of the required things to join most of the time a single united government.

>there will never be a Starfleet Academy TV show that's a combination between a regular Star Trek TV show and a cheesy high school drama

The UFP is too big for its own good. I'm willing to bet there would be at least one instance where there were two elected Federation presidents that weren't even aware of each other because of distance and travel times.

Yeah you've gathered wrong. You can be human and not part of the UFP, because federation membership is entirely voluntary. Sometimes they still help out with human colonies but usually because they've been asked or dragged in to help because of the circumstances.
Up The Long Ladder is a classic example of reacting to a distress call and then attempting to deal with the results. Though that episode has a host of problems too numerous to list here. The Masterpiece society they were forced by events to make contact and attempt to deal with the problems at hand, including those they created by making contact.

And the Maquis that withdrew from the Federation but the Federation refused to let them and held them under their own law?

They've had FTL comms the entire time, so probably not. Plus for some reason they all govern from Paris.

Actually there's an episode where a clearly non-human president is shown running the federation from earth, although that still leaves a chance to a hilariously botched inauguration.

What era, though? TOS naive optimism, TNG naive pragmatism, or Post-TNG movie traumatised ohgodwhat

>Post-TNG movie traumatised ohgodwhat
This would connect most with the current world, I would think.

>And the Maquis that withdrew from the Federation but the Federation refused to let them and held them under their own law?
That was for pure political reasons and everyone knew it. IT WAS TOTAL AND UTTER BULLSHIT! Since all the parties involved knew that the instant the Maquis went rogue/independence, they would start killing Cardassians and be a thorn in their side from the get go. That would have made any peace between the Spoonheads and the Feds very strained. So they did a smaller evil to stop a bigger evil from the Fed's pov.

>let a bunch of terrorists abduct the ruling council of a planet for shits and giggles
If you're referring to "The Hunted" the ruling class had it coming.

>roasties and other degenerates
All women are degenerates now?

The rules are Vulcan.
On watch ENT everything federation is based in Vulcan protocol.

That would kind of hilarious if there were cadets sweating over where they get assigned. And them all hoping to not go to a long term deep space run, border patrol, or worst yet do to well on their tests and get picked for the death ship 'ENTERPRISE-whatever' since it seems to kill ensigns faster than unprotected anal sex with a Bolian.

You know what's worse being assigned to an Enterprise?
Being assigned to a ship that's just in the general vicinity of an Enterprise - or, god forbid, one that's supposed to be assisting the-

>All hands lost

...

>The Romulans are on the war path again, a radical sect of the Borg which wants to carry on the Borg Queen's mission has infiltrated the Academy, and Prom's tomorrow!

>The writers were really trying to push the "Federation is actually evil, it just looks nice so nobody notices" angle, which is so directly contrary to everything else in ST that it didn't really come across properly.
They're not quite right, but I do believe that the UFP is basically a military dictatorship with completely a completely different economical, social, etc. context the than kind we're used to.

>Be a Cadet
>Be awesome in all fields
>Get assigned to Red Squad
>A glorious history of Treason, Sabotage, Drug Addiction and All Hands Lost
>have to decide which Captain I'm going to murder as my initiation
I just wanted to serve Starfleet, now I'm a conspirator and being vetted for S31

I can see it now.

>protags, sitting around in a student lounge talking about how first year is so tough
>a inch of fourth years, maybe their guides from the start of semester, come in and sit down
>they've just gotten their first assignment
>the first few of them are delighted, they're landing gigs like DS9, deep space missions and high end research
>one girl goes really quiet
>eventually starts quietly sobbing
>her friends try to find out what's wrong
>she runs from the room
>someone picks up her PADD
>she's just been assigned to a patrol mission aboard Karomazov
>a Miranda class
>she'll be dead before the first years do their end of term exams.

I kek'd