Over 15 years old

No they're really not. The whole point of magus society is that magic requires secret knowledge and you are best off keeping your secrets to yourself and your descendants. You need both natural inclination and rigorous training from an early age to be a good magus. Unless you happen to have some bullshit advantage. The Nasuverse is a setting where being a wizard and being a sorcerer (by d&d terms) stacks.

Have any of you played, or played with, a human fighter that was really getting on in years? Maybe even approaching the cusp of his lifespan? How did it go?

>that level 1 fighter is still someone with either proper training or meaningful experience.

In OD&D the term for a level 1 Fighting Man is specifically "Veteran."

Let me guess.
>15 years old
>average high school student background
>Level 20 Fighter

Fucking weebs.

Ultimately natural inclination matters more than training to see if someone is ever able to use magic, though.
But yes, they are a mix of both sorc and wizard, I was just arguing that they are closer to sorcs than to wizards, particularly because nasuverse magi specialize in their specialty fields (beyond the basics) rather than be all-rounders. Rin is an exception because she can use all five elements, but most mages are limited to one or two.

>level 1 fighter
>competent
It makes me wonder how people aren't extinct in a setting like that.

"But, user, life ends after 20! After 20, there is only soul-crushing realization of adulthood as you go to work for a corporation and sell your dignity and sanity for money!"

>that's what Japanese actually believe
>that's how it actually works in Japan
Two bombs clearly weren't enough.

>Playing a humanoid character
>Playing a character that communicates with words
>Playing a character with a physical body

Probably because threats a bunch of level 1 fighters can't handle aren't actually common occurences in most settings. Also because there are also renowned heroes above level 1, of course.

4 words for you, OP.
Male Human Fighting Man

Level 1 fighters (especially with NPC stat arrays) can neither hit shit nor take hits well. I wouldn't trust those guys with protecting a bag of flour in a fantasy setting. Getting to level 2 and even 3 is really easy.

The crushing corporations only exist because the two bombs

Depends on edition, user.

It's true in every edition.

>Playing a character with a presence

>Tohsaka Rin
>Old Men
>Money

Saying it doesn't make it so. Put a level 1 Fighting Man up against an ordinary warrior like a bandit, and he's undeniably tougher. That may not be the case in some editions, but it is in others.

Put up the statblocks and let's see it.

I've been wondering why there is little animu and mango with university students as protagonists considering that 75% of Japanese adults have attended a university or college of some sorts. Presumably eighteen year-old characters would be relatable to "mature" audience.

Levels are fucking stupid. They are a hold over from the early days that should go away.

Skill based progression is for adults.

Because you don't have any freedom in university. Culturally, high school is college.

Without gear or extraordinary stat rolls a regular bandit is nearly identical to a level 1 fighter in BECMI. The one in pic related is wearing leather armor and carrying a shield or scale mail to hit AC 6. You'll note his hit die is 1 (always a d8 in BECMI), his saving throws are that of a level 1 thief (which are slightly worse than a Fighter's), and everyone has the same accuracy at level 1/1 hit die before attributes.

Really? From wht I've been told, it's exactly the other wy around, with university students having significantly more freedom, and at least as much free time on their hands.

You'd think that having to take a test for university placement at the end of high school would make the last year of high school srs bsnss. Are their colleges basically a corporate job or something? I don't get it.

I have infantry background and I wouldn't consider myself anything but something beginner and low level in an RPG.

Just because I can hump long miles or know how to shoot a rifle doesn't mean I'm in any position to fight orc hordes or dragons.

>Fought in a medieval levy for a shitty lord
>Was placed center front
>Didn't wanna die, learned how to survive a charge, get better at personal fighting then formation-mass combat
>Survived a number of years like this, bettering his skills

Ya I'd allow it.

>bettering his skills
So he leveled up?

Leveled straight up to 1.

Yeah, from "Normal Man" to "Fighter 1."

>Playing a character

From Commoner 1 to Commoner 1/Fighter 1? So he has an extra 6 hp? So he's a level 2 character?

>Implying it doesn't work that way here too.
Our hours are just a little better.

>job was mostly carrying messages
>never actually fought anyone

Commoner is only a class in the faggiest edition of D&D. Like I said he was a Normal Man before his first level of Fighter. Not everyone has class levels you cockgobbling retard.

Yeah, nasuverse magi are really just DnD wizards with extremely limited access to spells, and most of them use some sort of alternative to a spellbook like a tattoo or whatever. The closest thing to DnD sorcerers in that setting would probably be the Tohno family or something

Can't have skills without class levels.

>>over 15 years old
>>military background
>>level 1 fighter
>elf

15 year old
Military Experience
lvl1 Fighter

umm, what is a Squire.

You can if play a non-shitty version of D&D.

>Can't have skills without class levels.

Worst D&D edition.

Or infantry from the ancient world in general.

In progression of sophistication, it seems to be warrior (generally seem to be spearmen), then fighter (your better trained melee specialist), then duelist (dedicated firearm users), with each of them representing a more refined soldier than the last. This means that in settings where the third exists, fighters are technically obsolete, or at least of secondary importance when it comes to producing an army, which is also why you typically only see town guards with the warrior class; because their own class is over a century out of date in regards to training and the realities of the field.

>how do i read

>what is a Squire
An onahole for a Knight

That bears no resemblance to reality or any edition of D&D.

Speak for yourself. I've found working to be pretty sweet.

The mature audience are watching anime because they want to forget that they're the mature audience.

>Oh, please.
That is, in fact, how 3.5/PF works.

If you wanted things to make sense, don't leave OSR general.

I had a guy that was basically auron from FF. Old veteran battlemaster with a greatsword. It was fun to play as characterise, because all my other party members were really young, and we had a nice rapport going.

>would make the last year of high school srs bsnss
There would be a lot less ronin if that were the case

>That is, in fact, how 3.5/PF works.
A level 3 Warrior would brute force a Fighter by sheer superior HP and BAB values. One bonus feat will not make up the difference. Disregarding what feat is selected, the warrior has a 10% better hit rate and an average of 7 more HP.
And beginning feat options flatly suck for Fighters.

>bonus feat
Wouldn't they be equal in feats number?

>tfw playing a 35 year old Fighter who spent his life learning how to fight in a school and learning to use all of those techniques in practice is the reason for his rapid level progression rather than some bullshit like playing a 15 year old Marty Stu who evolves into a god of war in 3 months
feels good

>35 year old man
>spent his whole life learning how to fight in a school
>still level 1

Oh right, level 3 is a feat level. So the fighter has no advantages whatsoever, and if you factor in wealth by level, the warrior will have magic armor and a masterwork weapon, meaning the fighter needs miraculous rolls to have any chance at all.

Stock NPCs get a 10,11,10,11,10,11 stat line.
The CON won't cover the HP difference, but the STR will level out the BAB. Also extra damage on hits.

Player characters roll for stats though so that's a presumption.

>Stock NPCs get a 10,11,10,11,10,11 stat line.
Maybe in your games they do, but the actual rules recommend the 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 array as a base for NPCs. Add racial stat bonuses and the result is that the fighter still has absolutely nothing on the warrior and is behind by a considerable chunk of HP.

>but the actual rules recommend the 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 array as a base for NPCs.
For NPCs with PC classes yes. 10,11,10,11,10,11 is recommended for NPCs with NPC classes.
It's also the stat line used (before racial adjustments) in all statblocks for "monsters" with NPC class levels.

>For NPCs with PC classes yes.
No, NPCs with PC classes use the heroic stat array, which is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. I've never seen the 10,11,10,11,10,11 array before, so I'm not sure where you're getting it from.

paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/creatingNPCs.html
>If the NPC possesses levels in a PC class, it is considered a heroic NPC and receives better ability scores.
>Basic NPCs: The ability scores for a basic NPC are: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, and 8.
>Heroic NPCs: The ability scores for a heroic NPC are: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8.

College in Japan is not nearly as fun as college in the developed world.

did you...
did you never play 3.5?

Level 1 in a PC class is meant to represent someone a cut above the common rabble with levels in an NPC class. Your Level 1 Fighter is basically a lieutenant, at the least.

Are you sure he didn't make this thread to mock the fact anyone would play something other than a 12 year old little girl mage? 'cause I think that might have been the intention.

Level 1 in a PC class is not impressive by any standard. It's only marginally better than the NPC alternatives.

"Impressive" is a subjective term.

If you want to be impressive you better give me a CHA roll, shitlord.

>

Because high school is supposed to be the height of your life. Japanese collage is boring and stupid.

It's like you don't even know about Japan

>levels
Lol

>It's like you don't even know about Japan
I actually don't. How do they make colleges boring? It's a time when you're old enough to drink and probably have a bit of independence. Getting laid as a 20-year old college student is easier than getting laid at 16.

College is much more laid back than high school. Once you're in college, you're future is almost secured. If you get into a good college you will almost certainly get any job you want, classes aren't that hard, and you certainly don't have to worry about juggling clubs and classes because extracurricular are much more laid back in college.
>Getting laid as a 20-year old college student is easier than getting laid at 16.
Ha. Please read about the population crisis and how the Japanese view sex/sexual relationships.

Maybe they were an ADC, or standard bearer, or any other martial occupation that you could lump under fighter but wouldn't exactly have the best combats skills.

>his systems doesn't make level 1 PCs common rabble

Why should they be rabble and not exceptional?

Because, the purpose of some systems is to quantitatively describe a character. You should be able to describe anything in-between an 8 year old street urchin with no worth and a well off blacksmith to a Demi God capable of talking down a hurricane.

>Demi God capable of talking down a hurricane
Someone let a diplomancer into their game again?

Anyone who is not a beginner to the system should start play at level 3.

that sounds fucking awful.

You'd only do that if you wanted to hit voting age before the level cap.

Duelists will be better one on one, but for a war, you"d rather have trained and disciplined fighters make up the core of your army. Theoretically, a duelist might best a fighter in a fair fight 9/10 times, but a war isn't a fair fight.

Only if you suck.

Why should I make the game easy for you?

>"commoner" as a character class
>not just Normal Man (i.e. 0th level fighter) stats

Each day we stray further from B/X's light

>race-as-class
>light
[Advanced laughter]

Well, I suppose a dimly-lit room is better than a coal mine.

What about Sorcerors?

"Players can't determine what stage of training that a character has reached when the adventure starts" the thread.

Look at things in context. Race-as-class was a good fit when it got added in OD&D.
For the bulk of development, there were only two classes. Fighting-Men and Magic-Users.

The "Men" in Fighting-Men is there for a reason. That's the "human" class. That's standard humans.
Fighting-Men, Dwarves, and Hobbits all had the same advancement because that's "regular combat experience".

Cleric was added OD&D near the end of development, and well after race-as-class was established.
Someone wanted to play as Van Helsing to hold back vampires with holy symbols, or something?
And Thief wasn't even part of the OD&D Whitebox, it got added in Greyhawk.

By the time Basic got released, there were for better or for worse enough classes floating around that race-as-class seemed annoying.
Nonetheless, people were used to it. So it made the system transition more comfortable.
And the initial reasoning behind it makes sense, fantasy races *are* archetypes.

Is this the thread where we argue about lieutenants again?

>Race-as-class was a good fit when it got added in OD&D
RaC is technically a B/X invention. The language used in OD&D and Holmes Basic is things like 'dwarves can only be of the fighting-man class', not 'one of the classes available is dwarf'.