First encounter of 5e game

Why is an orc dealing bonus damage with the javelin?

Crit = double the damage dice

>Sandra Clegane

>starting at level 1
You had it coming. Level 1 adventurers die to a stiff breeze.

>Wizard putting only 10 in Con.

He should've stay behind with his books instead of adventuring

If my character died during the first ten minutes of a campaign for reasons completely outside my power, I'd probably leave too

Here's what I would have done - scrapped my story, and immediately turned the campaign into paying back an "altruistic" noble the 5K gold to reassure the wizard. The players will be fighting under the debt that the noble finds excuses to increase each mission, and find out something strange is going eventually beating him around level 5 or so.

I think you fucked up by not being aware of the implications of game rules ahead of time, OP... and that's pretty hard to do unless you've been burned before.
If you had been aware you could have done something like advise the players that D&D-type combat is stupidly lethal at level one and don't get too attached to your characters for a bit, that's just how the game works.
(shit, if 5e is anything like 3e/PF you need a few levels to not die from a mook critting you in the face with a greataxe)
I'm not really sure about using a Warhammer-type fate point, but maybe for the first session until people are used to ther characters? Maybe.
I think making the players aware of the risk ahead of time is the best option.
(a least he didn't get zombified by some cunt of a necromancer to carry his stuff like my first AD&D char...)

Can they crit?
I was honestly unaware that monsters could crit.

depends on the world you want to portray, y'know?
I've already died in the first 5 minutes of a game, but I was okay with it, the system was lethal as fuck and sooner of later that would have happened. I think your player has no need to be salty about it, they need to roll with the punches as much as you, as DM needs to. Players tend to get spoiled because they think they are the protagonists of the story and that the universe is there to serve them. Things aren't fair and that's part of the fun, so what your wizard died? make another one, or don't, it's up to you. this is the same thing as a game derrailing when you're the DM, shit happens roll with it.

Yup:
>Longsword. Melee Weapon Attack:+14 to hit, reach 10ft., one target. Hit: 21 (3d8 + 8) slashing damage plus 13 (3d8) lightning damage. If the balor scores a critical hit, it rolls damage dice three times, instead of twice.

Yeah, but you were aware of the lethality weren't you?
I do wonder how to get it across, maybe hand out toilet paper for the first session and the payers get proper character sheets when the chars hit level 2?

Combat rules apply equally to all participants, although the books suggest not bothering with death saves for random mook enemies.

>fresh new game
>everyone excited to try out their character they've been putting together
>herp derp crit u ded
>all the time creating the character wasted
>no chance to do anything

Yes OP, you fucked up royal. Now I'm sure there are plenty of people that will say he should just get over it and make a new character, but that's kind of fucked right? This guy was probably psyched to play this wizard and do some crazy fun magic and you shit him down 10 minutes in and didn't even give him a chance to put up any sort of fight. You should have just said the javelin lands next to him and started a proper fight without plucking off the weakest member immediately. Or at the very least not gone through with the crit and just done normal damage

Out of curiosity have you talked to the player since? Does he plan on coming back or did you sour him to your gaming group permanently?

It's moments like this when you got to fudge the dice slightly.
Roll out in the open, be entirely fair, but now and then you and the players are going to look at each other over a dice roll and go "Right, who votes this never happened."
And when that happens you go 'Grand, the javelin nails the wizards hat to a tree and oh lawdy ain't that funny' instead of 'The Javelin nails the wizard to the tree and that's tragic'

Don't fudge the dice, just start at a reasonable level where you won't be killed in one hit.

Wizards are fragile mate. Unless you're literally having a dude run up to them and punch them for 1+STR damage but even that might not be optimal since they get so little HP from leveling up.

I had an idea but didin't know it was THAT lethal, but I was OK when it happened, it's par for the course. Usually a tell my players fair and square "this system in lethal, be careful and such and such" of course a crit is a crit and the players didin't have much control over it. usually the way I convey the lethality of the setting is just allowing the players to read their character sheets and see how mush hp they have in comparisson to how much damage they can do. since they are atarting characters their gear isin't much different from that of a comon bandit or the likes, so they can have the idea that the amount of hurt they can do to the world teh world can d back to them. and most of the time, if it is a new system, the first session I'm very kind and pull my punches and such, after they get a grip of how easy it is from their characters to die I take away the gloves.

He didn't say whether the hit happened before or after initiative was rolled

If it was before, then yeah that was fucked. There shouldn't be a surprise round if both parties see each other. Although I sometimes let the player who announces an action first to take one action before initiative.

Level 3 already sets you pretty comfortably above getting one shot killed by random crits.

Even still, wizards can be felled more easily than any other class in the game.

That's the flipside to playing "UNLIMITED COSMIC POWER" - the class. Sometimes you get dickpunched and end up unconscious/bleeding out/dead if you aren't careful.

In this case my first question is why was the adventuring level 1 wizard wearing robes that clearly identified him as a wizard, if he wasn't prepared for the consequences? Everyone knows that wizards are dangerous, don't advertise yourself as one until you can live up to the hype.

The real problem is that you threw them into a fight that was about top of the line difficult CR for level 1 when usually you build up to something like that with lower CR creatures like Kobolds or Goblins who can still challenge you but arent as swingy as this

The other problem was starting at level 1 always sucks

Probably because the player was new and didn't know that the wizard gets geeked first?

I mean, you'd think that the GM would warn him so that he could make an informed decision but I guess if he did then he wouldn't be asking if he fucked up or not.

My question would be "why was the wizard not bringing up the rear, behind the meatwall?"

If this was a story heavy game I would have let him have the death saving throws, if this was just a dungeon crawl-esq game then sorry bout your damn luck.

You did nothing wrong. The wizard guy just needs to chill and realize that it's a game.

Being in debt does not equal an adventure. Why do you suck at generating an exciting narrative?

Putting brand new characters in some powerful guys thrall is a shit idea and you should feel like shit.

Sure, but he has to learn somehow, and if that comes in the form of some very bad dice compounding a few somewhat unwise decisions then whatever. And the guy was level 1, session 1, fight 1 for fuck's sake, it's not like he could have been super attached to the character or anything.

Also this , there should always be an ablative wall of eminently threatening and less squishy party members in between the asthmatic nerd and danger, that's just common sense.

>Han Solo and Jabba the Hutt are boring characters in an unpopular story

Sounds to me like you're just irrationally attached to having all your games be power fantasies from the word go.

>comparing a rigid, fully thought out and uninteractive piece of fiction to an RPG
You should play a video game if you get so defensive at the idea of PCs having freedom.

Are you running a high lethality campaign? If so, no.
But then, I always start with some lower creature, like goblins or something, and only give them d4 hit dice. That way my players feel safe the first few combat encounters. and then I throw some riot fuel on the fire

The third most popular TTRPG - and the first after D&D - features being in debt to some nebulous powerful figure/institution as a _core mechanic of the game_.

Yeah, I'm insane for using it as a plot point.

Jabba barely has any effect on the adventure other than a brief encounter with Greedo who is easily dispatched. It's a five minute flavor scene.

Putting your party in debt and constantly having the rewards of their success being siphoned off just sounds like tax enforced drudgery under the guise of narrative.

This is why no one plays lv

>pays greedo
>pays boba feet
>eventually is a major villain having captured all the main characters in his hedonistic fortress and dies when the one he inslaved as a concubine chokes him the death
The debt Hans Solo has with Jabba the Hutt is not only a huge plot in the OT, it is the reason episode 5 is so good and is the best and most memorable part of episode 6.

The player is in the fault for this honestly. He overreacted and ran off without even TRYING to rectify the situation or make another character or excuse why his actual character is still alive and the random person in the group isn't him.

>if it works in a movie or book, it will work in an RPG, no exceptions!
I bet you're that guy who thinks he's original by stealing two movies' plots and slamming them together.

I thought starting at level 3 was normal. Level 4 sounds like caster-fags getting impatient to be Omnipotent after level 7.

The GM should've warned him before play rather than have him fall for a beginner's trap though.

If we're talking about a new player who has never played tabletop games before, they won't understand the nuances that goes into general play, which is why the GM should've warned him beforehand or given him a warning so that he knows for future encounters
>it's not like he could have been super attached to the character or anything.
You can't really tell someone how invested they should get into the game, especially if this is their first time playing. Some people can get really attached to their characters and if you start off the game by having them getting murdered, it just leaves a bad first impression for the hobby as a whole and will just inspire them to take on more negative qualities that may lead them into becoming THAT GUY/THAT GM in the future.

OP fucked up.

The wizard player is entitled to feeling upset if he was looking forward to a fun campaign w/ that particular character, only to get gibbed the second the game starts.

THAT GUY stories begin on similar premises for a reason and even if the GM didn't mean to, it set the tone that the game is unforgiving and that you shouldn't get too attached to who you're playing, which can lead to them not giving a shit about the game proper if they decide to pay more attention to how they can become more powerful.

>excuse why his actual character is still alive and the random person in the group isn't him.
>"Nuh uh, you hit my force field so the bullet bounces off xD"
Leave

Whether you realized the dangers of crit rules at low level is unimportant. You went with them, and instead of offering the Wizard's player a retcon or a compromise (God knows there are many!) you simply suggested they roll up a new character. Now this in itself is perfectly fine. You were expecting a high lethality game. But Wizard Player wasn't. There was a lack of communication. And THAT was your fault.

>The GM should've warned him before play rather than have him fall for a beginner's trap though.
But this is how he learns the intricacies of glorious ivory tower game design.

the debt you've correctly identified here is very unlike the one that originally sparked this tangent, wherein the poster described starting his players in a literal debt cycle of indentured servitude.

Having amob boss after you sounds like fun and will probably be a great narrative device to base encounters on in an adventure thats focused on otherwise unrelated events.

Having a noble siphoning the loot i worked for for multiple sessions until i finally get out from under the yolk of indentured servitude at level 5 sounds like garbage. sorry.

Test

Dealing with dice is part of playing tabletop games. It wasn't like an Orc commando team ambushed them in the night and turned the wizard into a pincushion with a half-dozed spears because the noob party forgot to set a watch or some shit, the party rolled up on two orcs on the side of the road and one of them got a lucky crit after getting a lucky initiative roll. Even in spite of the plethora of rookie mistakes happening here it still took an act of complete blind luck for this to actually happen,

Dice happen, deal with it.

my sides

No, I'm the guy who saved a campaign and didn't drive a player from the hobby by taking two seconds to draw on a popular narrative trope and saved the campaign behind closed doors and the players never even knew it happened.

I am the original poster of the tangent you ass. "Shady noble" is the "mob boss" of generic fantasy land.

If the GM has to warn the players every time that something rolling a 20 against them might be bad then this campaign is going nowhere fast.

>Being this shitty

Fudging rolls is a part of DMing dude. If you want to be an asshole at least have them start at a higher level.
Also, you lack any and all imagination. YOU would attack the caster first. But an Orc? That's a warrior society. Killing a milk livered caster is of no glory kill! Challenge the fucking fighter! That's a kill to be proud of!

He did deal with it. He decided that the hobby wasn't for him, and decided that his time would be better spent doing other hobbies, and OP is down a player.

Dealing with it doesn't always mean suck it up.

I've started every 3.5 campaign save one at level one for the last five years. Mostly as wizards or cloistered clerics. Just play safe and let your martial buddies stand in front of you early. Take some defensive spells

>Dice happen, deal with it.
The mantra of shitty GM's who don't know what they're doing. There's a reason why GM screens exist my friend and it's to prevent situations like this where the roll of the dice ruined the campaign because of dumb luck.

At worse, OP should've just made it so the wizard was down to 1HP or knocked unconscious, it sucks but at least it allows the wizard player to account for the possibility of death w/o losing his character right out the gate.

Then that's his choice, if he wants to be a huge whiny baby because he had some bad luck then dice games probably aren't for him.

>two orcs
>first level
Honestly, you were asking for them to die

it was so fun atching han and co. having to constantly pay off Jabba with the rewards for their great adventures like some dweeby tax man.

>when raiding caravans, orcs go for the merchants first instead of the bodyguards because them being unarmed most likely means that they're wizards
>when assaulting settlements, orcs go for the peasants first instead fo the militia because them being unarmed most likely means that they're wizards

The argument is that the wizard died because he dressed like a mage, not that OP rolled a 20 against him.

To reiterate, if dressing up like a mage draws aggro, the least you could do is warn the wizard player before play so that he doesn't fall for the beginner's trap.

Never DM if that is the only possibility you see in that post.

>huge whiny baby
What about what he did made him "huge", "whiny", or a "baby"? If the very first thing that introduced you to MMA was that someone fucked up and nut-punched you, you'd probably stop going, even if it was a mistake.

that was literally the scenario the post that started all this laid out.

He wasn't being a "whiny baby" if the GM opened up the game by having him be struck dead w/o any means of recovering.

The hit could've easily just knocked him unconscious or something but OP ruled that it killed him outright, which makes him the guilty party in this.

>Nah, spend twenty minutes making a new character because yours died. I'all bring him in in two hours after the rest of the party gets to town.

Why even bother rolling damage dice against the players if you're going to bitch out whenever bad stuff might happen to them?

Sometimes shit happens. On anything but a 20 the wizard would not have died, and even then it still required an above average roll of the damage dice to do it. He got dicked by the dice, but that only happened to begin with because he put his squishy character in harm's way.

If this was a story about the GM seeing that one lapse of judgement and suddenly three more orcs jump out of the bushes and all drill the wizard in the face for a guaranteed fuck-you instakill we might have something to talk about, but that isn't what happened and both you and him are being a petulant children about it.

I think you did excelent, coming from an OSR DM. The most fun adventure i've had with my group is at level 1/2 taking on things that's way out of the pc power. They acually assassinated a powerful king at level 1 after killing about 20-30 human lvl 1 fighters (party of 1 fighter, 1 thief and 1 magic-user).

Fyi we play BFRPG.

A side note, if you start at level 1 have the polayers have each 2 characters and when they level up they get to choose witch (surviving) character will become the PC and the other a henchmen.

As the one who posted it "finding excuses to increase the debt" means the noble is a dick, and like most dicks they give players motive to act in a manner other than happily pay the debt back.

I also said they find out more and more shit behind the scenes to imply the noble is evil and needs to be stopped.

All this as an on-the-spot solution to the OP. You on the other hand know nothing about telling a story or motivating players.

How do I build a wizard to be an Artificier. I wsnt him to be able to construct magic items.

Whining to the GM so that the death blow "didn't count" is just as shitty as what OP did. If you died, you died, but I wouldn't just off your character within 10 minutes of play either so the situation is moot.

Again, dice happen. If they don't mean anything then just drop the facade, erase all the numbers, and do freeform roleplaying.

The GM didn't decide to dick him, he put himself in harm's way and lady luck was pissed about something and took it out on him. Sometimes that happens.

It should take a combination of bad decisions and bad rolls to kill players, and when "attack the orks" is a bad decision, it means that you're dealing with a new player who should be hand-held through his first game.

the shady noble motivates the players by stealing from them and building a mountain of debt instead of just setting them to tasks that seem altruistic but all build the shady nobles secret agenda in the background while enriching the players at the same time,

man, you suck, bro.

>Why even bother rolling damage dice against the players if you're going to bitch out whenever bad stuff might happen to them?
Because the enjoyment of everyone at the table always supersedes the roll of the dice. That and it's poor form to kill a player off based purely off luck w/o having them at least try to salvage the situation beforehand.

you know what would have prevented this tragedy

fate points

Had it coming for playing at level 1 and fighting something stronger than a rat.

That's retarded, you don't stop and warn the players about every single risk they might incur. If it had been some bullshit "HAHA, YOU DRESSED LIKE A WIZARD, HERE'S FIVE ARROWS TO THE FACE YOU FUCKING NOOB" you might have a point, but that isn't what happened. It was one attack that had like a 1.3% chance of actually killing him.

>If they don't mean anything then just drop the facade, erase all the numbers, and do freeform roleplaying.
Oh boy, this tired ol' argument for the umpteenth time.
>The GM didn't decide to dick him
He decided to roll an attack against a newbie before anyone had a chance to react, let a crit follow through, and unceremoniously killed off a PC w/o the player even having the chance to salvage the situation beforehand. It's just poor GMing all around, especially when it involves people who are new to the game.

>It was one attack that had like a 1.3% chance of actually killing him.
Oh and that's ON TOP of the fact that it wasn't even an ambush attack as far as I can tell, it sounds like the entire party just bricked their initiative rolls to allow the World's Luckiest Orc to go first.

>That's retarded, you don't stop and warn the players about every single risk they might incur.
Which is why you warn them before play if they describe their character as looking like a mage so they don't end up drawing aggro because they look like a mage.
>It was one attack that had like a 1.3% chance of actually killing him.
Where are you getting these statistics from?

>First encounter
>First roll is without warning and lethal

Dude, have some mercy, i get that you have to play where the dice fall and that caracters die but its the very first battle at first level, whats the point in making a caracter if its going to bite the dust inmedietly and without a fight?

You really shouldn't be doing instant death at level one anyway specifically because of shit like this.

But desu a run of the mill INT 7 orc should target the nearest guy first, not the robed one

>Where are you getting these statistics from?
5% chance of rolling a natural 20. Has to do double max HP to instantly kill (12) on 2d6+3, so he had to roll a 9, which is a 27.77% chance. 27.77% of 5 is 1.3885.

So if you want to be pedantic it would actually round to a whopping 1.4%, clearly the GM should be hung from the neck until dead for subjecting a level one character to such impossible odds, clearly those two clueless orcs should have been a job for the entire pantheon of gods themselves.

To this I ask, why didn't the GM just target the character with the most HP so that there wouldn't be a character death on the first action of the first combat of the first campaign?

That's kinda what the fighter is there for after all and it'd make more sense for Orcs to attack the biggest guy there than to throw javelins at some dress wearing faggot in the back row.

Nope you didn't do anything wrong. That's the nature of the game. Your party did not adequately defend their weakest links in terms of fragility and paid the price.

I like to play tanks and always stand directly in front of the weaker characters shielding them from damage. Your party just wasn't thinking.

>A side note, if you start at level 1 have the polayers have each 2 characters and when they level up they get to choose witch (surviving) character will become the PC and the other a henchmen.

This is the correct method of playing high lethality games.

They should only target the wizard once a spell gets cast otherwise the guy with the armor and big sword looks like the biggest threat.

Not really. If you're going into combat you are constantly searching for an enemies weak point. The fact that the Orc was even allowed to strike at a soft target like that is the fault of the party.

You can't blame the enemy for fighting back.

>it'd make more sense
Fallacious argument, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that wizards are bad fucking news in a fight.

Also, expecting NPCs to act like characters in a video game is stupid and you should feel bad. You've got a skewed perception of what "makes sense", and even if you were correct and that was the objectively most sense-makey thing, events don't always unfold predictably, people don't always act rationally, and characters don't always follow scripted patterns.