/hhg/ - Horus Heresy General MkIII

>most of the wargear is useless
stasis weapons are sweet
molecular acid rounds are high quality
the sword of fuck castellax is pretty alright
covenant of death is lame for sure
pyris extasis is shitty but I don't know many people who play with relics

>most of the wargear is useless

No its not, its not bonkers good but it has a lot of useful shit and with a good source of PE or reroll 1s the plasma gun is brutal, your heavy bolters are ignoring armor half the fucking time and you get a sword made for monster hunting.

Both RoW are also fucking amazing, there is no legion that has a great RoW, a great equipment and great legiones astartes rules.

>there is no legion that has a great RoW, a great equipment and great legiones astartes rules.

White Scars not only have all of the above, everyone forgets about it so nobody plans for it.

Stasis weapons are cool, but also have negative synergy with our LA benefit. Plasma Repeaters are useless on a non-relentless platform. The Calibanite Warblade is really nice, but only for Apothecaries and Axe/Sword Chaplains. The Terranic Greatsword wants to be useful, but it's AP3 and only available on HQs.

Molecular Acid rounds are fucking amazing though and arguably break Heavy Bolters.

arguably iron hands
while they don't have fancy-schmancy specific weapons, cyber familiars are amazing, their LA is pretty great, head of the gorgon can be really powerful, not to mention both Orth and Autek Mor are both really good characters

Perturabo is the best primarch based on his stats paired with what he brings to the army strategically. Is this accurate?

Nah. Once I'm done with killing your most valuable units with Alpharius, I'll have him charge Perturabo and hold him there for the rest of the game.

Never noticed before that Vigilators can take jetpacks. Guess I've just never seen it.

Sounds pretty mad dude. Your assault marines get a better cover save than Raven Guard, aka the sneaky, assault marine-favouring army.

Huh, interesting. I should make a WS army... Painting them en-masse would be excruciating though, and even recast jetbikes aren't the cheapest models in the world.

Guess a Sagyar Mazan/proxy Shattered Legions force with some kind of alternate armour paint scheme would be the answer

Tell me which one is Alpharius so I can avoid this fate!

> Only asked about availability, Tony Cottrel thinks it is on for the Heresy Weekender, the book is at the printers at all being well the boats packed with black books should arrive back in the UK in time for the first week in Feb and the Horus Heresy Weekender.

recalcitrantdaze.blogspot.co.nz/2017/01/new-years-open-day-2017.html

Frankly even in my theoretical lists I cant really fit more than 6 outriders and 6 jetbikes in one 2000 point list.

Granted I'm not trying super hard but its pretty easy to pair them with other super fluffy WS stuff to make it a little easier on your wallet. Land Speeders for one, assault marines for another.

If a White Scar is your warlord you also get a +1 to the first reserve roll per turn, so flyers are a fair bit more dependable.

I bet you also think they're not gonna Age of Emperor 40k in the next edition.

Well, while Lord Perturabo may have his shortcomings on the field of battle, he is undoubtably the best dressed. Surely the best looking Primarch model confirmed!

The model is far and away the bulkiest of the Primarchs released so far. Noticeably bigger than Horus, and his FUCKHUEG base doesn't help things much.

Best Primarch model might have to be either Horus or Angron though. Horus for the detail and depth of character, Angron for the dynamism and violence captured in the sculpt.

Universal Stubborn is neat and furious charge in the enemy deployment zone is okay I guess but his shadowsword is BS fucking 3.

I don't know, I think the Angron model suffers from being one of the earliest Primarch sculpts (the first? Been a long time.) The raw intensity and violence is there though. Horus' pose just looks derp to me though.

Mechanicum already claimed the titel of Tau Of 30k. Reasons : weapons that make your cover worthless, safe plasma that rapes marines, most annoying when the big bots are spammed, and of course jet pack troops

Totally calling it now though, Custodes are going to be the Eldar of 30k

>Doesn't give the entire army preffered enemy by just standing in a corner twirling his villian mustace

kek

What that picture doesn't show is Abbadon sticking his tongue up Horus ass.

That is the only explanation for that facial expression

I was looking at starting Word Bearers, but the average point level of my store is 1850. Can a legion force work at that level or not? I've theory crafted some list and it seems like a tight squeeze.

1750 is FWs starting point for normal games.

Custodes for Eldar (c.017.M31)

So this needle gun on the Primus Medicae? Is it a pistol or a gun with rapid fire or something?

It's poisoned, but is that 4+ or 2+?

Pg. 126 of the legion book, newfriend.

That answers nothing. I know it's S2 AP5 poisoned, rending, pistol

That's why I asked if it's 2+, 4+ or the length of my dick multiplied by my sadness because no number is given.

Fortunately I figured out that of there's no number it's 4+.Why? Because you have to own 500 books and cross reference each of them to play this shitty fucking game.

Also nice """pistol""" GW. It's only longer than a terminator arm.

USes the Poisoned USR, so it's a 4+. Quite simple really.
And one doesn't need more than the 40k BRB plus the HH Red Books to play ... makes 3 if I can do simple math. Or only 2 if playing Taghmata or Solaris / Auxilia.

That's less books than I need in 40k to run my Dark Eldar (4 books) actually.

But dude, if this game holds so little appeal, why don't you wrap up a nice parcel and send me your plastic crack ?

fucking hell is it that much to ask to own the brb ?

This is absolutely true.

Chogorian Brotherhood has less than no downsides.

Legiones Astartes has a minor drawback of having a part of it be useless if you jink (oh noooooo /s)

Power Glaive is basically a 15 pts Paragon Blade without murderous strike for.#

The literal only downside is that glaive is character only.

Have you checked what the rulebook says about Poison USR, newfriend?

>Also nice """pistol""" GW. It's only longer than a terminator arm.

Newfriend thinks pistols are all small. Like his penis.

I have the BRB. I have multiple versions.

However when a opportunity to give someone more information presents itself, it's far more efficient and better for everyone to give that information than simply refer you back to another rule book.

Games Workshop loves referring to the BRB as much as possible to make sure you damn well own it faggot.

The comment on books was directed at the entire game as a whole needing multiple rule books. Tau is an abomination and so are Space Marines. There obsession with nickel and diming their customers with rules should run them out of businesses, but people have been saying that for years.

You know why I still play. Everyone else has their heads so far up their ass they can't take advantage of GW. They do it poorly, but it's the best available.

I did because that's exactly what I said in my post.

That's not a pistol, but rather a very clever joke put on by the gun community that some people took seriously.

>Games Workshop loves referring to the BRB as much as possible to make sure you damn well own it faggot.
Holy shit, what a revelation. You're right, GW are complete bastards, no other wargaming company requires you to own the rulebook. Thanks for the redpill, user, my eyes are now open to this conspiracy.

Looking for WD nov 2009. Can user help ?

>GW are such faggots, they force me to buy a rulebook instead of just putting all the rules in all their books so I don't need to buy anything else

1st world problems.

>the entire game as a whole needing multiple rule books

You need the rulebook and the codex. Anything else is just extra guff you yourself decide to take. You don't need those extra formations and rules listed in other books, you choose whether or not to use them. Everything you need to play your army is in the codex and everything you need to play the game is in the rulebook.

>I did

So why the bitching, other than to bitch?

>That's not a pistol

I'm sure you know better than everyone else. Once again.

mediafire.com/folder/tx4hcy4u487pv/WD#tx4hcy4u487pv
Try this, I'm not digging it our for you. If it isn't there, sorry, not my upload.

Not that user, but legally that is a pistol, and many other funs have been converted into them by certain militaries, iirc. I think the AK74u without the stock is legally a pistol.

What pages are you after?

You guys are literally arguing for a more inconvenient way to convey information and giving absolutely no reason other than the old man adage of "IF IT AIN'T BROKE DONT FIX IT, BACK IN MY DAY..."

Is there any counter point you guys.

Those "pistols" caught on because they are working examples of how stupid ATF laws are. Is that a pistol? In every practical sense absolutely not. But does the ATF consider it a pistol because of their arbitrary magical fairyland rules? Yes, sadly.

The ATF is retarded and you can have a working, firing example of it in your collection.

That's easy. I've been looking for Chris Reiter's Third Sphere Expansion, a fan supplement that has vanished completely from the internet but for one dead link.

epic40k.co.uk/epicomms/ikonboard.cgi?s=fefe95e359857e61d33de9e2047874ec;act=ST;f=23;t=5550

>arguing for a more inconvenient way to convey information

I'm sorry I'm not arguing for GW to print the full rule on every instance of that rule being mentioned. If you knew what Poison did, you'd also know that it defaults to 4+. Because right now you want the full Poison USR to be written in the book for your "convenience".

>Is that a pistol? In every practical sense absolutely not.

So what is a pistol then, oh genius game designer of convenience?

user, you're literally getting mad over not reading the BRB.

let's see, right now we have all the faction specific rules for our army on 2-5 pages in the beginning of the book ordered alphabetically
you in your infinite wisdom would suggest we add 6 more pages of random as general rules that are in the brb anyway ?

Pretty sure GW have an app where if you click on* a special rule on a model's datasheet it brings up a little box with a summary of that rule, might be what you're looking for. Not sure that there's a version for FW though I'm afraid.

*Or whatever it's called when you do that with a phone.

>I'm sorry I'm not arguing for GW to print the full rule every instance of that rule being mentioned

Please cite where i said that at all throughout my post, you won't find it because I never said it.

What I was critiquing was the fact they didn't go ahead and write "Poison 4+" and instead they wrote "Poison."

Adding "4+" is nowhere near "printing the full rule." that's a misrepresentation of my argument in an attempt to make my request seem outrageous.

The latter part of your argument is not an argument at all. You have yet to make a single counter point other than lies about what I said and a weird rant about not knowing the poison rule.

That'd be nice if it does in fact exist.

I've never claimed to have infinite wisdom.

I would simply request that when convenient that rules be minorly explained when possible. Such as adding "4+" and other such things.

I don't know of a PERFECT solution at all. However I'd be interested if there was a discussion on how to make it so.

>a small firearm designed to be held in one hand

Hold that previous pic related in one hand and fire accurately. Probably not gonna work out.

...

...

>Please cite where i said that at all throughout my post, you won't find it because I never said it.

So how do you know what Poison does if it's not written into the unit entry? Because that's what you're asking for. If you do know what Poison does, you'd also know that it's 4+ if no number is given. Where does your "convenience" end?

>Hold that previous pic related in one hand and fire accurately. Probably not gonna work out.

Pic related: not a pistol.

The iBooks version of GW books let you tap the special rule and it will pop up and show you.

user, all rules like FnP and Poison all have default numbers that you and anyone else would see if checking the BrB. Feel No Pain, for example, is default 5+ and not 6+.

I really can't defend your posts other than the fact that I was once confused about this issue as well, but for FnP, until I checked the rulebook. Really, the biggest problem with the game currently other than balance is the fact that most Codices have their own store of special rules and decide to label and add extra rules all over the place, as well as inside their own rulebook. The only Codex I know that only has the descriptions for the weapons and codex-unique special rules is the KdK codex. And I sort of like this, because it forces players like you to actually look at the BRB to determine what the rules actually are. If you say Poison (6+), you wouldn't know what Poison did in the first place unless you actually looked at it's entry in the BRB. Because you would have to look at it, you would then see that Poison with a number is (4+). See what I mean?

any Solar auxilia players here ?
i'm planning on starting an army
so far i'm buying:
the command squad, lasrifle section, veltaris section, the redbook and the transfers (muh agathon)
i've still got 120£ left to play around with, what should i buy with it ? i have IG so LR and basilisks are not a concern at the moment , i also own a valdor
i was thinking of getting either : a malcador infernus and a mortar, an avrus and a medicae (and possibly switching the veltaris to axes) detachment, or a dracosan and flamer section

any of those a direct nono ? any suggestions ?
i also play IG as i mentioned so having vehicles that can be used in both 30 and 40k are a plus

I really hope those can use regular Contemptor arms, I'm really not a fan of these arms.

Also, why does the sword one have flamers on the sword instead of on their wrists, where as this halberd one has the flamers on the wrists?

Arvus is trash, get some dracosans for dedicated transport shenanigans, but really the core of any auxiliary or militia list should be lots of tonks

...

My "convince" ends on a case by case bases. A hard and fast rule does not need to apply.

If it's a fairly light barrel you might could pull it off.

The problem with the AR pistol is that barrel is fuck ass heavy.

I mean that's a decent point, but people who didn't know would still have to look it up anyways.

Honestly the best thing is for ebooks to become far more popular so that cross referencing is a breeze. However ebook designers need to overcome the "tactile" feel people love about rulebook s.

>If it's a fairly light barrel you might could pull it off.

I don't think "might" is a good qualifier for law.

Yeah, it's pretty hard to fit more than about 15 bikes of any variety in a list (HQ + 2 Apothecaries 12 outriders across 2 units of 6).

Depends on what you're doing for Land Speeders or assault marines really.

I wanted to build an army out of the B@C box but it's looking less and less likely since I absolutely detest non-mkIV jump packs.

Oh and fuck cataphactii terminators.

I'd tend to the wisdom handed down by the learned judges in the appeal of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs vs Proctor and Gamble, on the matter of whether or not a Pringle constitutes a crisp, and is thus eligible for VAT. M'lud stated that whatever the precise ratios of ingredients and arcane manufacturing processes employed, a child would consider a pringle a crisp, and so ought the law.

When it comes to pistols, rather than debating on nuances of barrel length, capacity, rate of fire, or any other specific measure, we should consider what a reasonable man without specialist knowledge would conclude. Thus is a pistol, while and are not.

>we should consider what a reasonable man without specialist knowledge would conclude

The same people who think a gun with wooden grips is ok, even if it fires bigger rounds from a bigger magazine than the scary black assault weapon? The same person that thinks a 12 shot .22lr revolver is way too much while a 10 round .50AE automatic is perfectly reasonable? Who thinks 556 is bigger than a 308?

Laws in your world must be fun.

Will there be FW resin, non-special character Custodes models?

While you can acquire plastic MkIV jump packs from Sanguinary Guard kits, the price that bitz sellers charge for the things means that, once you've factored in buying bolt pistols and chainswords too, you'd be better off just buying FW assault marines.

Besides which, the squatting poses that the BaC marines come in look pretty bad with jump packs. FW's aren't a lot better (they look more like they're walking than running), but they're certainly an improvement.

Specifically, the Custodes themselves; not tanks or Dreadnoughts.

I believe they said there'd be upgrade kits in the style of Templars/Headhunters rather than full models.

So what will this have, since a banana suit is already 2+/5++?

i can only afford 1 unfortunately
should i get a flamer section or a medicae section ?

That's a contemptor, matey.

Well shit, bucko.

RGs units are fantastic, Decapition Strike is powerful, Camo on ICs is great. infiltrate/outflank for days and/or furious charge? Yes please. Great characters, including the only good moritat in the game. Solid Primarch whos invisible most of the time and needs no escort so hes point efficient when he kills 15 marines a turn before sweeps.

Ravens Talons should be free because scythes exist. Liberation mission is absolutely terrible in every way possible though.

>arguing the principles of owning the main rule book of a game.
Good morning kids. Dont worry, school wont teach you to be any more self sufficient. Its up to you to become a competent adult that can read rule books on their own. Remember, mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell.

Mor deythan seem kind of mediocre. Or at least, they seem mediocre at what they're supposed to do, (be expert marksmen,) they're only useful for flamers, that weapon renowned for subtly and use of marksmanship. Still seems weird for RG to have the best flamer unit in 30k, rather than say salamanders or death guard.

Given headhunters aren't great either, I think FW just haven't worked out how to do an elite legion-specific sniper-y unit yet.

>Rending flamers with shred for ignores cover on a scouting infiltrating platform with stealth and scoring in a rhino
>Mediocre
Clearly you haven't seen the damage those can do. They erase entire units and steal their objective.

Watch them murder most of a cataphractii unit or most of a tac blob and youll see

Mor Deythan are a strike squad. They can just also be a sniper unit. They use whatever they need for their intended target.

Did you just read the first sentence and then excitedly reply? I know they're murderous with combiflamers, the problems are (a) that's basically the only thing they're good at, almost everything else can be done cheaper by other stuff. (Maybe 5 dudes with sniper rifles are cheaper than recons, I guess, if you expect 5 sniper rifles to have a big impact on the battle.) And (b) this doesn't feel like what they're intended to do if you read any fluff about them (either FW or BL), and I can't help feeling that the rending flamer loophole will get closed at some point.

They can, but unless you want rending combiflamers, there's not much point in using them.

>Only asked about availability, Tony Cottrel thinks it is on for the Heresy Weekender, the book is at the printers at all being well the boats packed with black books should arrive back in the UK in time for the first week in Feb and the Horus Heresy Weekender.

Yay!

I feel you completely. Seekers got a big buff and they're best in the legions that can infiltrate them close to their targets - Raven Guard obviously, AL if you build around infiltration. When RG already is the obvious legion for using Seekers their unique unit that's not actually as good and costs more seems pretty damn lackluster in comparison.

>Did you just read the first sentence and then excitedly reply?
I read it all, but you didnt read all of what the Mor Deythan are. Like says. Theyre a strike squad with special ammo (Fatal Strike) in addition to being marksmen. Rending combi flamers for infantry, rending plasma for AT. The other options are good too, its just flamers and plas are the best outside of specific situations like fighting mass 5+ or worse saves where combi flamers, three chargers, followed up by assault (theyre all dual wielding) would be great.

Then there's their deployment aspect of being a strike squad. Infiltrate and scout to get exactly where you need them.

If they were a dedicated sniper unit with only those options they'd still be a great sniper unit. BS5 then twinlinked with AP2 on a 5+ instead of 6. But they're not. Theyre a swiss army knife unit. Which they excel at.

They arent mediocre at anything when it comes to shooting. Its just they have better options than sniping, which mechanically is weak by itself and has nothing to do with Mor Deythan, who are the best snipers in the game.

>8th edition Skaven codex was 8 years ago

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>who are the best snipers in the game.
But they're not, like headhunters, they're completely outshone by seekers.

Further proof that legion standard is best standard.

>not a pistol

Correct, this is a revolver, not a pistol.

Help me finish my list Veeky Forums. I had the full 2500 down, and I keep stripping units out because I'm not sure what I want to use! I think it has a fluffy and strong base, and now I should be adding in specialist units, but everything big and fancy added feels like it's taking up too much space. I.e. if I stick in a podding Leviathan I KNOW that will be effective at it's job, but I still can't bring myself to spend the last ~700 points on just 2 units, or one great one and a point filler

Death Guard, Creeping Death, 1710/2500

HQ (245)

Delegatus - Artificer, Combi and Scythe - 105

Siege Breaker - Artificer, Combi and Thunder Hammer - 140

Elites (530)

Apothecary x2, Artificer x2 - 110

Kheres Mortis - 180

Quad Launcher x3, Phosphex - 240

Troops (500)

20 man Tac Squad, Vexilla, Artificer and Melta on Sarge - 250

20 man Tac Squad, Vexilla, Artificer and Melta on Sarge - 250

Heavy Support (435)

2x Vindicator (240)

Sicaran Venator + dozer (195)

The malcador infernus is a good way to lose friends, specially with chem-munitions. Quad mortars get a bad rep for invalidating infantry, but that thing is on a whole other level of fuck-your-dudes-on-foot.

Two objective-capturing units at 2500 doesn't feel like enough, so I'd be inclined to add either a 3rd troops choice or something with Implacable Advance. Happily, both of the DG special terminator units have this rule, although they kind of need a transport so would eat a lot of points.

The last version I wrote (before I shit the bed and posted it here in frustration) included a 10 man Flamer squad sitting on objectives, using the 5+ cover save from Creeping Death which I thought might have been handy since it's so cheap and pretty good at repelling charges.

Thank you! much appreciated

looking for the 'Eavy metal article for my HH WS army

Army list question /tg

Having to put the HQ on bikes, what's the downside of using commoner bikes, instead of the most noble dick-bikes ?

I wanted an apothecary in the squad and they can't take jetbikes, also the +1T remains while everybody has AA so...

Slower turboboost I think, jetbikes come with heavy bolters standard instead of a combi bolter.

I wake to a nice thread, thanks user.

Shorter Turbo Boosting, No Heavy Bolters.

thanks for the reply
the problem is that due to my limited budget i can only really get one of shot wonders or risk spending 400 €on an army that will get pummeled every time until i spend 200 more
currently i'm leaning towards getting a stormlord and a flamer section but i'm again worried it will prove to cheesy