/STG/ - Star Trek General

Agreed. It's one of the primary reasons I like DS9 as much as I do.

OH GOD IT'S A THOLIAN STAINED GLASS WINDOW HIDING A RED ORB. EVACUATE THE STATION.

one of the best parts of DS9 was this fuckin guy for sure
youtube.com/watch?v=DUtvtPjVwJs

Vic was based

I really don't get why people liked vic.

>TFW is that a wire fence floor or does it just look like that?
If it is the former then that's a terrible design or a bar since you would keep losing shit down there.

Looks like tile.

Not to mention it'd be terribly unsanitary.

Just the idea of the Tholians with an Orb is enough to make one worried.

>Just the idea of the Tholians with an Orb is enough to make one worried.
No, some Obsidian Order agents hid an Orb there during the last days of the occupation because Dukat was intent on fucking them over. If all three of the Red Orbs met, the galaxy was fucked. Unless you don't believe Kai Weyoun, who says it's going to be glorious. The Millennium trilogy was a trip and a half.

Can I get a Kosst Amojan?

Are they worth a read?

>Red Orb?
This is a wormhole aliens thing right? So I'm guessing this is a bad extra dimensional aliens blow up the universe if the plot device things are brought together. I'm not trying to be funny I really don't recall this element from DS9. I'm putting out this out of my ass but I'm betting I'm mostly right. They really need to stop doing that in storylines in Sci-fi shows, it is very boring and annoying.

It's a shame we didn't get to see much of the Dominion culture beyond the top three species. The only other one I recall showing up were those human-like people that Bashir tried curing of the plague the Dominion sprayed on them for insurrection or something.

I've been curious about how the day-to-day lives of your average Dominion vassal goes. I'm guessing there's a fair amount of fear, considering how an entire world can be punished for the crimes of a minority. Part of me kinda figures it's sort of like the Tau Empire or Latveria, in that that for the most part, it's a decent life, probably better than some alternatives, but God help you if you or your family member says the wrong thing.

you a very valuable and potentially comfortable cog, until you are not

When someone tells you that you will get fuukan rekt if you rock the boat you know what you don't fucking do?

You don't fucking rock the boat and you encourage people standing close to you not to rock the boat.

It's like with Gustave

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustave_(crocodile)

Don't go near his river and you will be fine. Go near his river and he will eat you.

>Oh noes i went near his river and got eaten!

You have only yourself to blame.

>the Utopia isn't actually as good as we thought it would be
>the little man stirring trouble in paradise
>turns out that high technology of the future doesn't stop people from being shitheads
>the vaunted authority figure who was supposed to keep everything perfect doesn't do shit, either out of apathy or out of political manoeuvring
>in terms of cynicism and inverting common themes, is practically satire of its contemporaries

Guys, is DS9 Trek-punk?

The UFP is a military dictatorship where material condition have radically changed the implications of such.

I'll point you to "homefront"/"paradise lost". In these episodes the presence of armed starfleet personnel on the streets is stated to be unprecedented. The president doesn't want to do it because it would undermine the the image of the federation. Admiral whatever-the-fuck tries and fails to install a military dictatorship.

The UFP is a Federal Government, sort of like the EU, with stronger integration, but most similar to the USA. All member worlds have their own governments that govern as they see fit, but also beholden to the laws of the Federation. Each member world then has a number of representatives on the federation council that elect a president. Starfleet has no say in this process and is strictly controlled by the President and the Federation Council.

I get that it's easy to see an episode of trek and assume that everybody is somehow a member of starfleet, but that's only because we're following starfleet officers. If you watched a show about the US military would you then assume that the US is a military junta? There is a no-doubt, vibrant society within the UFP that we don't get to have much of a look at, barring the occasional visit to Earth.

A show about the trials of everyday life on a starfleet world would be rather odd, likely ending up something like Caprica.

Amin Maritza the cowardly file clerk who hid under his bunk weeping like a woman because he couldnt stand the screams of the Bajorans.

The captains seem to have unilateral and almost unrestricted power, that's what I was going for.

...

This is probably due to the fact that many captains are many hundreds of light years away from Starfleet HQ, and this distance requires them to be semi-autonomous.

I'd suggest that the position likely also has enhanced scrutiny to go along with its responsibility (and the chance that a poor or misguided choice could lead to a career ending event), but VOY and Admiral Janeway puts the lie to this.

Over their crew, yes. Otherwise only in certain situations, mostly in crises. When Picard or Sisko show up to a colony that's about to be destroyed by *randomly selected philosophical horror of the week* they have an amount of implicit authority, in the same way that paramedics and auxiliaries are given authority during emergencies. Captains are also expected to act as diplomats, when needed. So, weeks away from the nearest Federation representative, the Captain can negotiate in a limited capacity for the UFP.

But if a captain turned up to, lets say, Betazed and demanded that they hand over all their annoying nasal-voiced women, then the planet's democratically elected government would rightly tell them to fuck off. And then that captain would likely face an investigation and potential court martial.

Man felt bad when they killed off Ziyal

I feel like Janeway only got the promotion out of recognition of "look you're fucking insane but you did manage to drag them all the way back home", and she doesn't actually do much Admiraly stuff. Apart from being OPplsnerf against borg.

My dream Trek show is a deep space colonization mission to the Delta Quadrant. Multiple ships. Colonists, Starfleet, Private Contractors etc. Perhaps characters come from different strata of life. Hey they can have Neelix be a recurring character

There's also the other bugnuts admirals to consider. It seems like only the power hungry and insane ones get promoted.

Not even Kirk was immune to the crazy of being promoted.

That could have been a great moment of personal growth for Kira as she learns to shed the illusion of all Bjorans being angelic blameless innocents and every Cardassian being Evil™. A blurring of the lines in her black and white world as she has to confront some dark truths about some of the things she and her associates did and let go of some of her prejudices.

Nope. Forgotten next episode.

Well hey, maybe it just keeps them behind desks and away from the Captain's chair where their fuckups have consequences

I'd imagine given how big Voyager's return was that anything other than a promotion would've raised a lot of eyebrows too, possibly leading to some of the shiftier stuff they did in the Delta Quadrant ending up in the public eye.
Meanwhile, a promotion looks pretty standard given the extraordinary circumstances and everyone except the most skeptical observer will just forget about it as soon as it falls off the front page of the newspapers.

to be fair she did help the cardies juryrig that one freighter to blow up some klingons

>Guys, is DS9 Trek-punk?
It is more rejecting the current mind set and going back to an older one. Where the MC reclaims his spirituality instead of rejecting it.

True.

I completely agree with that. Janeway's promotion was to get her out of the command chair, and keep the populace in the dark about the clusterfuck that was the journey through the Delta Quadrant.

Including giving Borg weapons. Imagine how well that would go over with the families of those who both lived through and died at Wolf 359, and the attack on Sector 001.

Mind you, she did bring a ton of new tech home, and crippled the Borg real good, even if only temporarily. The shady stuff seems to be a prerequisite almost to becoming admiral.

>foreshadowing.gif

mustve been a bitch to deal with for temporal affairs

They didn't do too much time travel. Every time it happened it was the time cops' fault themselves.

By comparison, Kirk and Picard did a lot more damage to the timeline.

It's from the novels. Basically a prophecy from the very dawn of Bajoran history is set to come true on 2400, and with the help of three orbs coming together the universe will be destroyed/remade. To stop it, all sorts of goofy events happen, up to and including a Picard deep in the throes of Irumodic Syndrome, Admiral Nog, and a time shifted Vash travel back in time in Bajor's history and create the prophecies/modify them. The last book is a gigantic clusterfuck of about 6 timelines intersecting and intertwining to prevent the universe's destruction.

>the novels.

Just.
>gigantic clusterfuck
Nailed it.

>TFW And the Trek writers make fun of the time travel bullshit in B5. :P
Seriously, some of those Trek writers are way WAY more guilty of doing a whole mountain of cow paddies whole of time BULLSHIT than we ever saw in B5. I really hate the way the do it in Trek too. They are way too casual about doing it and for the most trivial things at times. At least in B5, if you wanted to fuck with time you had to seriously want t do it for a very good reason. NONE OF THIS OOPS WE TIME TRAVELED AGAIN OR OOPS WE MADE SAPIENT LIFE AGAIN! SOORY, GUYS. Or a whole number of other incredible stupid reasons to have drama. I mean the DS9 guys could at least write drama at times with it being a totally bullshit reason.
>If you anons can't tell I REALLY HATE TIME TRAVEL STORIES IN TREK!

Sorry, for that not being the most coherent thing ever but Trek time travel is my pet peeve with the setting.

B5 Time Travel:
>required something super ancient and incomprehensibly powerful to use
>limited in amount it was used to a major event with a closed time-loop and a few visions of a possible future
>said major event was both foreshadowed in an interesting manner and closed out a character's story in a decent manner upon it's conclusion in a way that gave explanation to other important events

What is there even to make fun of?

Point of order, but the writers of this trilogy are the same people who wrote the Shatnerverse books, and most of them aren't this batshit.

No, Battlestar Galactica remake is Trek-punk, in that it's Ron Moore taking all the things he liked about DS9 and making things over the top ridiculous and serious.

People shit on Janeway but didn't Sisko shoot a chemical WMD at a planet to make everyone leave?
They should have just made every planet in the DMZ uninhabitable to both Cardassians and Humans, desu.

>What is there even to make fun of?
youtube.com/watch?v=chkzV_CVFW8
It would be easier to explain if just watch the clip. They take a direct jab at the whole Sinclair going back in time and becoming Valen.

Trek writers gave us Warp 10 lizards. Even the dumbest B5 episode is not 1/100 as shit as that.

Few things are. I'm sure Farscape could manage.

High points were worth it.

That's most sci-fi shows to be fair. Unless they're truly terrible, each show has the cool shit that everybody remembers fondly and the dumb shit that we try to forget.
Quod erat demonstrandum:
DS9 had "In the Pale Moonlight" but also had "Run Along Home"
TNG had "The Drumhead" but then also had "Sub Rosa"
So on, so forth.

Run Along Home wasn't that bad. I'd have mentioned the one where Molly becomes a cavegirl, or the ones where 50's style Vegas singer hologram is a more effective therapist than the actual therapist.
For what it's worth I don't remember lows in Farscape to be nearly as bad as those reached by basically every other major sci-fi franchise.

That's because Farscape was a fever dream of a show. I distinctly remember an episode entirely inside Crichtons head as he gets lobotomised.

Why did Gul Dukat turn from morally grey man on his own stubborn and slow path to redemption into MAKE CARDASSIA GREAT AGAIN? It really seemed like a sudden and out of character turn for him to side with the dominion.
Its not forgotten next episode, theres actually a lot of episodes in which she is much less hostile to cardassians and she works hard to try and uphold the peace. I felt her attitude changed greatly over the course of the show, until season six which im currently halfway through, where they've thrown all that out the window, though to be fair she did just go through what was almost a second cardassian invasion and its understandable it might sour her a bit. Besides that point there are a number of episodes where she makes it clear she doesnt think of what she did as "angelic" such as that time she lied to odo about murdering someone, choosing to go kill cardassians rather than stay with her father, her conversation with thomas riker where she discusses terrorism and most of all the episode where she is kidnapped by one of her former victims, at the end of which she claims there is no such thing as innocence.

What the hell was that game that Riker was playing in Icarus Factor?

top kek

>barking back
*harking back

It's like the pugil-sticks fighting they used to have in Gladiators

The singer was meant to be equivalent of Ol' Blue Eyes himself, I'm not certain that there can ever be a counselor as effective as he.

You're not wrong. There are only 3 occasions on which I think time travel in Star Trek has paid off.

1: City on the Edge of Forever
I don't actually much care for the premise here but the acting was top notch

2: Yesterday's Enterprise
An interesting, almost self containing episode that answered some questions about the Enterprise C and gave an insight into how strenuous the relationship between the Federation and Klingons was, after Khitomer.

3: Trials and Tribble-ations
You'd have to be one heartless bastard not to enjoy this one.

Otherwise, they're sloppy, lazy episodes that do nothing but create paradoxes and Doctor Who levels of doscontinuity.

>or the ones where 50's style Vegas singer hologram is a more effective therapist than the actual therapist.
Hey, Paper Moon is great, don't knock it.

if you dont think Vic is one of the best characters you can fuck right off

I just don't get his relevance in the show. Why did we need him?

He's there to give the characters a different perspective. He puts an old earth spin on the character's problems.

Do we really NEED him? probably not.

Fuck me, I loved those novels. The DS9 Millennium Trilogy was amazing. Campy as shit in places, but damn, I loved it.

>Trials and Tribble-ations

Probably my favorite time travel episode, I love everyones reaction to TOS Klingon design.

>They are Klingons AND it is a long story...

>They are Klingons AND it is a long story...
90 minutes isn't too terribly long

One of the narrative conversations I am really tired of is

>It's a long story

Especially when it's not.

"We got mutated due to illadvised genetic alterations"

There. Not long at all.

Worf does also say "we do not discuss it with outsiders" a few moments later, so we can assume he was just evading the question.

Can I get some opinions here?

I've got time set aside to learn a language, and I want to learn an "artificial" language. I'm torn between Esperanto and Klingon. Technically, Klingon would be just as useless. Esperanto's usefulness is purely hypothetical, and there's more Trek fans out there to impress than Esperanto speakers. I've got this hunch that Klingon would be more impressive for networking among Engineers ...

How's the Klingon Language Institute?
10$ per year. Seems to be the ONLY way to actually learn Klingon.

DuoLingo has had Klingon in the works for some time, but watching delays & the progress meter... it's never happening. It's all volunteer work.

I still maintain the joke would have been better had they just put Michael Dorn in the TOS Klingon makeup and no one noticed.

Tolkein's Elvish

No. It's actually Finnish/Welsh. If I wanted something similar to existing languages, Esperanto starts making more sense.

Good idea for similar reason as Klingon, but the active community isn't quite there by comparison and ACTUAL Tolkein fans who would be impressed by it are a hell of a lot harder to find.

Klingon is nearly a "living" language at this point. Fans have already taken that to court. You're not going to find nowhere near as many books or as much effort put into translating books and stuff into Elvish. You're not going to find any new development of the language either.

Klingon also fascinates me as a concept too because it was intentionally constructed from the start to be as alien as possible then let it go from there. Tolkien's motivation was just using languages he really liked.

Interesting watch:
youtube.com/watch?v=e5Did-eVQDc

I hear that Vulcan has a pretty developed written form.

There was a Sinatra revival fad in the 90s. It was probably executive meddling.

>It really seemed like a sudden and out of character turn for him to side with the dominion.
It wasn't though. His two loves are himself, and a strong Cardassia. Cardassia at that point was being btfo by the klingons, and he was at that point a rogue captain with basically no standing, when he had been essentially the SecDef just a bit earlier. When he went to the Dominion for help, he justified as saving Cardassia from the Klingons, and he was so blinded by his pride in basically becoming King of Cardassia that he didn't mind so much becoming a Dominon vassal. He was also always skilled at self-deception, so he convinced himself that the Dominion and Cardassia were in a more equal relationship, with Cardassia being the junior member in a real alliance.
If you want something to complain about, it's when he went full villain after he fell from grace the last time. Even then the writers justified it with "Dukat's gone loco," which is valid, if not satisfying. Yet that too fits with his character: Dukat seeks after power (especially over the Bajorans), and he is able to decieve himself into thinking he's got more a better hand than he actually has in relation to the Pah Wraiths. It's also general Cardassian character, it seems, to make a deal with the devil to achieve one's ends, and Dukat does that literally.

>TFW Ziyal became your DS9 waifu without you even being aware of it then she was gone ;_;
So what species favor combinations do you are your favorites, /stg/? And which ones are the most you want to see that Trek hasn't done yet.
I wouldn't mind them showing Andorian or Orion hybrids. You would think with how there are Orion slave woman in canon that there would be all kinds of hybrids running around.

>You would think with how there are Orion slave woman in canon

Aren't they all just pretending to be slaves?

Except for the ones that aren't.

The women might rule but not all the women.

only the stankiest may rule

God, every single one of those vegas singer episodes was cringey as fuck like those Stewie Musical episodes of Family Guy.

>Gul dukat loved a strong cardassia
You saw a very different set of episodes to me then. He wasnt obsessed with strength, as evidenced by his support of the new civilian government, his soft hand and cooperation with the federation over maquis issues, his choice to abandon his titles for his daughter, his choice to abandon his ambitious return to power to fight the klingons and a whole bunch of other shit.

I just saw the psychosis episode and it was a travesty, seriously star trek has always been rather progressive but sisko declares a man he knows to be mentally ill "pure evil". Shit we should round up all the schizophrenics and put them in the camps because apparently that is what pure evil is! After them we can go for the depressed and the brain damaged, its the right thing to do.

>stankocracy
>[stangk-ok-ruh-see]
>1.) Government in which the stankiest person has uncontrolled or unlimited authority over others; the government or power of an absolute stankarch.

>Miranda on patrol
>Stopping off in the Stankocracy of Tor IX
>Shore leave goes wrong
>Everyone comes back with an orion beast woman
>Even the female crew
>Captain is furious, but caves when the orion beast women corner her in the turbolift
>Nothing gets done
>For months
>Deflector dish out of alignment
>Replicators overtaxed
>Running low on supplies
>Captain ignores Stafleet Commands orders
>Finds virgin world outside of UFP borders
>Start colony
>Raise half-whatever/half-orion children
>Become grandparents
>All hands lost
>...
>Peacefully
>In their beds
>Surrounded by grieving family
>To whom they leave the future

;_;

>In instances where 2 high Stankarchs meet and are considered a match, stank for stank, then it is customary for both to engage in a form of ritual combat with antiperspirant and scented soap.
>in this way the Stankarch lives a dangerous life
>a life in which failure means return to the bottom of the hierarchy and the long arduous process of reacquiring stank
>this position is known as the "bottom bitch"

Didn't they do this like a few times already in Trek with some time fuckery but without the Orion Beast women sadly.

Yes, once in DS9 and once (sort of) in Enterprise. Like you said though, no mind-altering booty-bitches to fall in love with.

>ywn be part of a stank off duel
>ywn be literally ridden to near orgasm death
>ywn die while empting your last load into the queen of all stanks.
>TFW why even exist in an era without queen stank overlords to conquer you ;_;

Stank is definitely amongst the least erotic words in the English language. It's up there with feculent, putrid, ventricle and scrotum.

Stank is, at worst, dollop-tier unpleasant. Nowhere near moist, bulbous, pus or cuck.

Fuck it, prepare the Orgasmatron, we're going in.

>feculent
>putrid
>ventricle
>scrotum

No wonder, all of those come from Latin.