...Identity Spoofed

>What are some good open ended runs to get the feel for people's characters?

Things with low stakes, where fucking up won't attract any heat that lasts more than a day, and whatever sort of idea they have or path they want to try is likely to succeed.

In that campaign, I shamelessly stole the PH34RM0NG3RS run from TwoDee, but recast it as, "You need to get these punks out of this neighbourhood one way or another," and then a very easy 'extraction' (helping a girl sneak away from a company picnic so she can get married to her beau and present her parents with a fait accompli).

The PH34RM0NG3RS were persuaded to move from Tacoma to Puyallup, with the party facilitating the move by doing some legwork on Puyallup gangs so the PH34RM0NG3RS could go take out one immediately and come in looking hard. The extraction was done by distracting everyone with a political flashmob that drew most of the rent-a-cops away (hey, public park in Seattle, you need somebody to persuade the local kids to stay away) and by using decking to spoof a call from the school of the security chief's kids on the way back in.

The more wageslaves you gun down, the higher the chances that one of them was actually going to subvert the sad cyberpunk trend, and had connections with one of the higher ups... and was slated for promotion just before you snuffed the life out of them.

>it's now a sports bar where all the waitresses dress in slutty sports jerseys
so basically hooters but with better food?

These are the canon attitudes. Shadowrun is a callous setting that doesn't give a fuck about death/murder, where sticking to nonlethal means nets you nothing PR-wise.

These are the attitudes promoted by GMs who - intentionally or not - made the setting more closely resemble the real world, where people would be shocked and horrified if ten security guards were found shot to death in a Silicon Valley research lab by the day shift on arrival. This is not the setting as-written, though.

As-written, corporations will shrug, adjust some numbers in a ledger, and tell the janitorial staff to get to work cleaning up that mess, unless there's some kind of unusual circumstances making it more urgent to deal with what happened directly.

Hooters with better food and it's all Mexican/Central American food. Also, it's honest with itself starting out as a place to pick up whores.

Wait, Hooters is a sports bar? I thought it was more "family restaurant for single dads".

On the note of running things for players, how do you get them to tone down the paranoia and excessive legwork for newbie characters?

Special shoutout to /srg/ itself for this, because a lot of players I've seen from here fall into the trap of spending way too much time combing over things and dragging the pacing of a run down.

Well, there is plenty of balls in Hooters.

>tone down the paranoia and excessive legwork
I'm sorry chummer, but I don't get it
each single word I understand but together they don't make sense

Forgive me.

I've noticed the opposite problem in my group where our GM doesn't give us that much legwork to do.

>A dynamic defense is more expensive. You have to train it, equip it, pay it, insure it, and so on. A security guard’s death can have surprisingly handsome payouts in death insurance for the grieving family, if the corp is honest (which happens, I swear!). And then it takes so much time to find another applicant, screen them, train them, arm them—the expenses stack exponentially over time. For all that runners like to make fun of corp sec, they represent a significant investment of nuyen and time, and given how many runners get their heads blown off fighting them, it’s clear the investment is much better than just static defenses.

From Howling Shadows. It's mentioned a few times there and elsewhere in sourcebooks that the expense of a guard is significant enough that if you have a reputation for blowing through a dozen guys every run it's going to cut down on job offers, just because the added expense on the part of the victim will be transferred to their inevitable retaliation. It may be nickels and dimes for the corp on the multinational scale, but for the local R&D facility that has to balance it's security budget it's a huge moneypit to keep getting new guards, which encourages attitudes like Zero Zones to kill the runners first.

Plus, as a runner, I like to be able to leave a bunch of unconscious friends that corpsec have to secure and take care of, rather than a bunch of shredded bodies that make them more angry, more scared, and more likely to start spraying bullets as soon as they see me.

Go think harder on it, then.

>This is not the setting as-written, though.

Please go actually read the books.

Imagine someone who wants to do legwork for Food Fight.

A) Time limits. They don't have forever to do their work. They don't even have a work week in 90% of the cases. They need to go secure that prototype before it's shipped to Macao in 38 hours.

B) Flashbacks. Blades in the Dark has a great method for doing this, which is easily ported to SR. You spend Edge to set up something that happened in the past; one Edge for something that is easy and you had opportunity (the Face having chatted up someone in a bar and learned a bit about the layout of the offices from casual conversation, or the infiltrator leaving a bag with a couple tools behind during a previously-done legwork scene), more Edge for things which are difficult or require amazing coincidence (the head of security played on the same college combat bike team as the sammy, having called in a bunch of favours for your go-gang friends to come in and secure your exit). Use that to keep pushing them forward to the actual run, with the promise they can go back later to establish something if they have a good idea that requires set-up.

>Anyways, I like this idea of a strip club where the strippers aren't actually the main reason they go there

I'm adding a chain of these to the game I'm running Soon(tm). Best buffalo wings in the city they're in, guaranteed or your nuyen back.
Made from real winged buffalo, thanks to genetic experimentation!
Of course, it's also a kemonomimi-themed club, with bio-sculpted or SURGE-d staff. Even the bouncers wear kitty ears and have tails stuck onto the back of their cheap suits.

I know it's potentially a middle ground fallacy, but I think that a good way might be something in between grunts as the super protected assets and simple dungeon cannon fodder.

Having people die constantly would eiter sharply drive up wages or depress the pool of people you hire from - both things a corp doesn't like - They have to stay cheap and replacable. But: That is, what they are, cheap and replaceable.

So in my opinion getting a reputation for things like wholesale slaughter of a corp lab is bad - slaughtering a corp lab once in a while isn't that tragic, it's expected.

As always ymmv - we're all playing in different worlds, after all

>Made from real winged buffalo, thanks to genetic experimentation!
What a coincidence, I am also the user who proposed that idea there two threads ago. Out of curiosity, are you going with "monstrosities with dozens of tiny chicken wings growing out from scattered spots on their sides" or "big wings; not big enough that they could actually fly, but big enough that they wouldn't die if you chased a bunch of them off a cliff"?

Time limits.

Barring that, put them on the defensive. Example: they're hired by Mr. Johson to protect someone/something until the 'McGuffin' arrives where it's expected.

>shadowrun.com/forums/discussion/comment/181431/#Comment_181431

I read it and reread it and can't get the puppeter vs spider.
It uses a mixed opposed+threshold test.
By RAW you are rolling Software + RES vs Firewall + WIL + Acton type.
So you need 2 net hits on an opposed test with fairly even pools to invite marks or 3 net hits to reboot or dataspike suicide. And you need to push the limit with Edge at level 1 to not blow your brains out with 10 FV. The success chance to roll 3 net hits against a spider seems abysmally low for the supposed emergency GTFO button.

Yeah, this. It's alright to kill the odd corp staff here and there, just don't make a fucking habit of it.

But if you want 'cheap and replaceable' you can go install turrets, neuro-stun sprayers, and razorwire. If you want midrange,

>Which brings us back to critters. Where do they fall on the static-dynamic scale? Somewhere in the middle. Biological security assets represent tactical wildcards, dead zones, and compensatory measures. They fulfill physical, magical, and even digital security needs at a much lower cost to maintain.
>Consider this: A guard dog doesn’t ask for pay. He doesn’t understand reward beyond food, praise, and affection. He doesn’t question his loyalty. If he dies, no one is going to look for a payout. And there’s a whole kennel of other dogs like him to replace him, either cloned or more likely just bred. Training is relatively easy and definitely cheaper overall than a guard, and the dog can learn pack tactics, including working with those same guards. Hell, they can be all the more effective if you’re willing to outfit them with armor or other gizmos, or even cyber, if you’re a mean bastard with cash to spare.

Flashbacks are a great way to handle things like this in-game.

You might also want to talk to your players ooc and go meta.
If your players aren't sure they will not get punished (too harshly) for "going with the flow" instead of analyzing each and every detail, my guess is that they will stay that paranoid.

So tell them that you won't be the guy who says: Hah, it was lofwyr all along! You get eaten one by one, no burning edge allowed.

Oddly enough, I didn't get the idea from one of these threads. Directly, at least.
I'm going with 'big enough to fly with, and the bastard things will do so if you don't clip them'.

>If your players aren't sure they will not get punished (too harshly) for "going with the flow" instead of analyzing each and every detail, my guess is that they will stay that paranoid.
Correct!
Paranoia is a survival trait.

You're right, of course.
I should have said: Cheap, expendable and versatile.
A sec goon can cover a whole building, do patrols, investigate etc.

Turrets become prohibitely expensive if you have a big building or a warehouse with a lot.
Drones are unreliable if run on Pilot - and you can get at least 5 security goons for the price of a sub-par rigger/spider.

It's all about balancing these security concerns with a tight budget. Which in itself becomes expensive, so most non-essential corp areas aren't really that well guarded/secured (in my game world ofc).

Should my runners start blowing up everything, waltzing into A-Zone offices with assault cannons and blowing the 70year old security clerk two days away from his pension into bits?
Yeah, that tone shifts right quick.

>implying the corps wouldn't support someone taking out employees about to become drains on the pension fund instead of productive cogs in the machine

Why aren't you Logan's Runners?

>If he dies, no one is going to look for a payout.
Eh. You're still going to get a few staff members who get a little upset at losing their four-legged friend, most likely trainers and guard staff. There's no cash payout, but there's still an emotional and morale cost. As I dog person I hope I have gel rounds handy if I ever find dogs in the enemy security, Awakened or not. Dogs are pure and loyal; not smart enough to fully comprehend good and evil, but wise enough to be good anyways. It seems so unfair that we drag them into the same bullshit we put ourselves through, even if they're happily following us into hell.God damn it, I am now actually crying real tears just from typing that out.

The corps would be all too glad to grind pensioners into fine dust, refine that dust with flavoring and some carbonated water and sell it as the new NERPS - but there's still public opinion to appease and control.

What if it's that one guy that everyone in the office hates? Do they let their standards slide for him, or is he merely the most frustrating person to leave on company pension?

You do know you've basically been quoting the Untamed Security chapter of Howling Shadows, the same thing I'm posting snips from?

And rigging a building with turrets is way cheaper than hiring enough guards to cover it, especially if you get the ones on rails. Metahuman guards/drones are more dynamic and flexible, but are way more expensive. That's why you put in layers of static and dynamic security to produce the most economical security.

No one is saying death can't happen during runs, but that there's a lot of good reasons, enshrined in canon, why you shouldn't be planning to kill every security guard you meet during a run, because their lives are not cheap (at least, not cheap enough that their wholesale slaughter will earn nothing more than an annoyed pencil-pusher updating his spreadsheet).

I don't know, I don't own that book and I'm a 4e pleb.

I agree completely with you - you just wrote up what I've been saying from the beginning.

I'm still of the opinion that runs do go bad occassionally and everyone, especially the corps know this.

What this user says.
But mirrorshades Cancer will never learn to Control their powertripping GM tendencies of "I WANT YOU TO BEHAVE LIKE I WANT!!!!!111".

>planning on full Donut genocide

Usually nobody is planning this or even doing it, especially with NPCS that have enough self preservation senses left in them to not fight the troll in security Armor toting a Minigun.

Not that it matters though.
There is a sort of kankerrunner going around in the /srg/s that goes to lenght with ridiculous bullshit on how "killing a random guard on a run" is bound to attract a whole lot more negativity compared to ruining multimillion businesses for said corp, just because REASONS (eg relatives paying detectives to GM-fiat snoop out Runners that hadn't been able to be found by the corp before).

>he can't even quote all the posts he wants to quote properly
Typical murder-maniac.

>(eg relatives paying detectives to GM-fiat snoop out Runners that hadn't been able to be found by the corp before).
Isn't that task handed out to other runners on occasion?

Playing Armored Core for the first time. This seems like Shadowrun with mechs.

It happens, yes.

>just because REASONS (eg relatives paying detectives to GM-fiat snoop out Runners that hadn't been able to be found by the corp before)

The corps aren't motivated to find runners, at least once the job is done. The reason the Azzies have such a bad rap in the shadows is in large part because they hold a grudge against the runners who did the job, while everyone else understand they are just tools in the hands of the wealthy.

However, they have mentioned in canon about being trying to get vigilante justice on those dirty criminal shadowrunners; Wolverine Security, the loose cannons of Ares, are known to have officers who were wronged go get theirs off-duty (and someone with tactical gear, police training and a Jazz habit can really put a fly in your soup).

>about being trying

Ghost save my grammar.

>about there being people trying

For a four-cyberlimbed street sam, it's better to boost agility first and leave strength for later, right? Or should I boost strength just a little bit before I ignore it for a while?

Which should I focus on first, arms or legs? I figure legs will be okay with customized 6 agility.

>Bloodsports are the most popular programs on television
This one, at least, isn't quite true - sports of the sixth world are violent, but they're intentionally non-lethal unless you go underground or into Aztlan.

>[no one gives] a fuck about whether or not you leave a trail of bodies in your wake
Beat patrols just about only care if you've killed someone. Everything before that is a crime that can be ignored until you're added to their monthly quota of killers removed from the streets.

The Problem isn't really that the relatives are TRYING to get back to the runners.
Its the fucking ridiculous Notion that somebody with very Little financial ressources has the means to track down any halfway competent runner Team.
Idk, maybe if you go in guns blazing without any disguise after having bought the HMG with your national SIN ...
But usually, runners tend to be NOT that retarded, so finding out who did the deed is something you can Forget to do.
Except, if as i said, the GM is using excessive fiat to cut out logic.

So, provided you have two things present, removing Donut from the premises is no Problem:
-runners (and their Players) shouldn't be pants-on-head retarded
- The GM shouldn't value his shitty little agenda over a believable setting.

Please work on your English, for somebody whining about 'believability', I can't believe a word you say.

Theoretically non-lethal, though bloodsports don't have to involve death.
>At this time, events involving deliberate combat to the death are illegal in all North American countries except Aztlan. Urban Brawl comes closest to crossing the line, but wounded brawlers are treated immediately and removed from play when badly wounded, and the object of the game is to score goals, not kill opponents. It says so right in the rules.

As well, one of my favourite bits from Shadowbeat

>A team scores if a ball carrier gets the ball into the opposing team's goal. The ISSV rulebook used to restrict goals to "live" ball carriers, but after the 2044 season, when there were six disputed decisions over whether the carrier was still alive when he entered the goal circle, the ISSV changed the rule. As long as the ball is in the brawler's hands or somehow attached to his body when he gets into the goal, it doesn't matter if he's alive or dead. It also doesn't matter if he got there under his own power or was blown ten meters across the pavement by the opposition's Blaster and hit the goal area in two pieces, which happened in the Boston-Seattle game last year. One of the pieces was in contact with the ball, so the goal counted.

So non-lethal, but only technically. They still use live-ammo unless they're arena pussies, which is stated to be second-best in terms of revenue made and prestige to real street games.

Depends on what are you planning on doing.
I went for 4 STR in my arms because thats enough for an additional point or RC and I'm not a big fan of melee engagments.
Electrical Damages rules those anyways.

And of course you want to prioritze Arms.
6+3 Agility or 6+2 if you plan on getting Redliner at Chargen or later.

Which one are you playing? The setting is pretty Shadowrunny, yeah.

Guns, of course.

>Redliner
Hell yeah.

>durr

GM fiat faggot detected, nice to see you not having any sort of factual counterpoints.

Also:
>he doesn't know "remove X from premises"

Lurk a lot more

Moronic arrogant ESL scum detected, your arguments hold no weight here.

Armor yourself up to the max if you go for it.
I'm playing a four-limber with 30 soak and I'm pretty sure i should get some more armor in the limbs before grabbing that Quality.

>still not a single counterpoint provided

Q.E.D.
Its not your mommys Kitchentable here:
Going full Trigglypuff and ignoring Facts doesn't give you any upper Hand in discussions here.
But its okay.
You'll run from the discussion, like you always do, resorting to "NO U"s, then crawling back out of your whole 3 threads later, behaving like nothing happened.

*hole*

There's nothing to argue.

>Which one are you playing?
First one. Emulated. 2x internal resolution.

Finally accepting that no one gives a fuck about dead wageslaves in SR?
Took you long enough.

If a cash-strapped family has enough nuyen to convince a team of runners to rescue a missing child (and they do, it's a staple of feel good runs), then they have enough money for bloody revenge, especially if you went on a killing spree and multiple families are pitching in.

Kill if you must, but no more than that.

Morbo's executive powder.

Anyone else dislike the limits introduced in 5e?

I sort of liked the crazy amount of hits you could get.

I like it specifically because it flattened out those ludicrous curves. Now you can't just minmax for dice and walk around with a pistol one-shotting everyone and everything (fucking adepts).

Convincing some runners to do a low-payed feels-good run against some low-level child abducters isn't the same as convincing some runners to do a low-payed run to avenge some random dude, that involves going against professionals with the will and expertise to kill.

Besides, as said above, even IF some families pitch together to hire someone to find out who did this, provided the runners hadn't been stupid, there is no reasonable way they are getting found.
Except if the GM fiats his way through.
OR of they had been stupid on the run.
And if THATS the case, both the corp hiring them and the one being the target of the run are bound to be a much more serious and relevant problem for the group.

This

Limits are excellent, the only Problem is that they adding way to many shit to make some Limits a non-issue anyways (social and accuracy).
Especially the Custom Grip that gives +1ACC is such a stupid nobrainer, it should have never made it into the game.

How do you do anything melee-related in SR without killing people? There must be better options than being a non-cybered troll, settling for shitty 9S(e) stun weapons, or eating accuracy 3 to hit people with rifle-butts and chairs.

>but competent melee can't ever be non-lethal
So how does anyone justify gel rounds and SnS being as good as they are? How does a terracotta rifle shoot someone for 15S AP -3 and no attack or accuracy penalty?

>How do you do anything melee-related in SR without killing people?
Blunt objects?
Stun clubs?
Negotiate with your GM for a non-lethal weapon that uses your main melee skill?
Mine let me make a vibro-sword into a stun weapon, by adding the guts of a tazer club to it, and having it consume battery packs.

The one feel good run I've been on so far, which did center around getting a kid back to his wageslave parents, ended up pit us against a veteran runner and none of us blinked at it. We did our legwork on him, hunted him down and killed him. If we'd had to do in a whole team of runners, we'd have picked them off one by one. So I can say with full confidence that you're full of shit.

>settling for shitty 9S(e) stun weapons
What exactly is shitty about a 9(s) base damage weapon?

No, the only thing you can say with full confidence is that you are some sort of idiot extrapolating his tiny Teeny one-time experience to a larger scale, sounding like a pretentious big-mouth retard, trying to bend the setting around his personal moral compas, disregarding logic on the way.

>melee weapon eating power clips to have respectable stun damage
I am okay with this. Maybe give it the same stats as SnS, -2S(e), replace AP with -5.

>What exactly is shitty about a 9(s) base damage weapon?
I don't have a whole lot of experience with SR, but it doesn't seem to me like it would be very good against a target that is armored or tanky. Metahumans have like 9 boxes minimum so even after net hits, it seems unlikely to oneshot someone wearing any kind of armor.

There are surprisingly few weapons that can oneshot someone wearing any kind of armor.

>trying to bend the setting around his personal moral compas
The very next session, the same character proceeded to straight up murder 30 Triad thugs because he and the rest of the party were curious about what was behind a locked door. Does that sounds like someone "bending the setting around his personal moral compass" to you?

>not much experience

Its showing.
Weapons damaging the mental boxes are far more effective at taking down big Targets than most others one, barring Shotguns/Snipers with APDS, are.

Besides, you can increase those 9S with net hits and called shots and as the user above said, its generally farily difficult to oneshot Targets.
Which is a good thing in my opinion, makes the game far more interesting and fun, because things besides "max your INI" become relevant.

Treat the wageslaves like disposable bodies and you're thinking exactly like the corps are, chummer. The high-up CEOs, the management, the cold algorithms of economic efficiency, those all treat people like interchangeable warm (or cold) bodies.

Living down in the press, you should know better. Those are people, and they have friends, family, histories. Sure, popping the head off that security guard with a spell so he can't raise the alarm might be quick and safe for now, but who knows? Maybe he has a favourite cousin who's a mage. Maybe he reminded one of the corp execs of his dead son, and he was keeping an eye on him. Maybe he had former girlfriend who fell into the shadows and had to leave him, but still cares. That's the key - maybe someone cares. Which means maybe they'll care about the one who killed him.

You keep racking up that kill count, and maybe you'll need to more eyes to watch your back than you can get.

>melee weapon eating power clips to have respectable stun damage
>I am okay with this. Maybe give it the same stats as SnS, -2S(e), replace AP with -5.

I wish this was a real thing, so I could put melee hardening on my guns and go full gun kata on some corpsec, rather than switching to shock gloves.

t. strength 2 pistolero

So, I was told that, apparently, there's a way to make an 'attack' with a camera on a gun that would result as a 'lock on' type deal, in which the number of successes you get is a penalty to the other guys' dodge roll.

What are the details on that, or where can I find them myself?

Shock Gloves are a thing for people that aren't a troll or aug'ed up to their gills.

I know Satan, that's why my 8 Agi 2 Str gun adept is using a pair. I figure 5 RC built into his pistol will carry him for a while.

Then why is he still alive?
Shouldn't those Triads have a caring Family (at least some of them) with a sizeable amount of disposable income to hire a runner Team to snuff out this horrific murderer?

Look up 'Sensor Targeting' in the core rulebook.

Thanks Omae.

So, it would still work if I apply a sensor to a gun too? is that the Jist of it?

If they're shooting real bullets at me, omae, they're gonna get some back.
Otherwise, you tried tellin' your street sam to hold back and not slice so deep next time? Doesn't work.

which might happen maybe once or twice as a plot hook, but to punish players with thte fist of revenge everytime they go lethal is illogical, against the setting and just a dick move.

We didn't leave any evidence that could connect the deed to us (nuked all the data and burned the whole place to the ground after blowing it up), and the only 2 witnesses surviving didn't get a good look at any of us. They don't know who killed their loved ones, and though they probably suspect it was some Shadowrunners, guess what? They have no idea that we killed their guys out of our own curiosity! They think that we killed on the orders of whoever hired us and are seeking revenge on them for this!

That said, when the run was over, our decker said "man, if we keep pissing them off we're going to have to wipe out this Triad before they get us" in a way that was joking yet completely serious. And lo and behold, now we're in the middle of pissing them off in Hong Kong of all places! First thing I'm going to do when we get back to Seattle is move out of my shitty apartment and try to get myself back into the David Cartel, and maybe get the rest of the crew into their good graces as well.

>We didn't leave any evidence that could connect the deed to us (nuked all the data and burned the whole place to the ground after blowing it up), and the only 2 witnesses surviving didn't get a good look at any of us. They don't know who killed their loved ones, and though they probably suspect it was some Shadowrunners, guess what? They have no idea that we killed their guys out of our own curiosity!

M8, you are basically enforcing my Point from above.
"Don't be stupid on runs and its usually not a big deal if you kill people."

Do you blow up AND burn down every building you enter as part of a run? Because if not, you're not thorough enough with evidence disposal to get away with killing sprees all the time.

>Do you blow up AND burn down every building you enter as part of a run?

You mean you don't?
Hell, we don't even use the same Johnson twice. Soon as we get paid, we shoot them dead, or track them down and geek them.

newDM here getting acquainted to 5e.

How big of an impact does essence loss play for someone wanting to play a cybered face?

Is it completely unviable now?

>shooting the Johnson unprovoked
Yeah, you don't actually play the game.

> the joke
> you

How cybered? If they just have a little bit of cyberwear, it's not a big deal, but if you're trying to run with less than 1 essence, it will be really difficult to keep your social limit high.

>joke
You know what I love about going out to play with real people face to face? They don't spout humorless bullshit and then hide behind the excuse of a "joke" when I call them out on it.

somewhere around 2 - 4 essence, would that work without hindering them much?