/btg/ Battletech General!

>FWL
Their original designs are hit and miss in the 50s, but they did have lots of good variants.
The dracs and post-LGR FWL are just hosed, though

They had some of the best variants of the 55t Trio as well, which is a big deal considering how prevalent they were in the 20s and 30s. LLs everywhere, so nice.

That's also true. They're just better at improving other people's designs than starting from scratch, I guess

Fuck you the Hector is awesome.

I know FWL has some lemons that stick out, but overall they've always had a wide selection of good mechs. Maybe not outstanding or gausswall mechs, but good options to choose from to make excellent lances and companies.

Well, they've got the Cicada, Orion and Awesome.

The Awesome's, well, awesome, but everything else seems to define 'only okay'.

They really, really don't. Standout FWL Mechs - Awesome, Spider, Hunchback (kinda), Wraith

They get some bitching mechs come 3145. Juliano, Carronade, and Gambit all come to mind.

Albatross is an awesome heavy.

memes aside, I unironically like the albatross

Orion is a workhorse and I know I'll be hated but not my cup of tea, it's a fat trooper that may live one more turn of beating with out dishing much more damage.

The cicada is pretty terribad imho.

Awesome is well as said above.

>Juliano

Fragile and low damage, unless you're using quirks, in which case it's a terrifying 24 and you need 3 hits to cause a PSR. The short range would be scary except you're too fragile to last there.

>Carronade
Actually good, although it could use Stealth armor to stand up to the Tian Zong.

>Gambit
Meh.

>doesn't mention the Quasimodo
Now THIS is a jewel.

They do.
Their early selection alone includes:
>All Bugs, Flea, Spider, Cicada, Hermes II, Vulcan, Hunchback, Trebuchet, Griffin, Shadowhawk, Wolverine M, Quickdraw, Rifleman, Crusader, Thunderbolt, Archer, Warhammer, Guillotine, Marauder, Orion, Thug,Awesome, Goliath, Battlemaster, Stalker, etc

If you can't make a good lance out of that, the shortcoming is with you.

Are they all outstanding? No. But they're good mechs that together can form good units.

Mechs that everyone gets aren't FWL mechs.

Is the Atlas edgy?

Oddly enough, the Cappies get the good 20s Cicada with a PPC and Machine Gun knees. That thing is a terror. A PPC going 7/11 in the 20s is a nightmare.

That is true, they have that one, but over all not a hot mech.

Will Battletech move past the Dark Age ever?

Gambit is a Jenner with quirks that make it better at Jennering.

Aren't they claiming to do so with next TRO?

idk. Can I get a source?

I think I read it in a few BTGs ago. Sorry for that high quality citation.

Eh, if it'll happen we'll probably notice it.

...

The 50s upgrade was hot garbage, and yeah, the "lol 40t Locust" base model is a bit of a joke. I guess it at least has more internal structure than a Locust...

The bigger problem is that a lot of the good stuff they get in the 3050s are export models that get thrown right back at them by everyone else.

Maybe? The next big plot book is ilClan and it's supposed to come out this year.

And every year since like 2013 or some shit, so I'll believe it when I see it.

Gotta love the Cicada.

>Units firing ADA Missiles may make no other secondary attacks against other ground targets.

Xotl, explain this bullshit.

Ah shit, didn't mean to quote

>Units firing ADA Missiles may make no other secondary attacks against other ground targets

IIRC if you're making normal weapon attacks against aerospace units, you can't make secondary ground attacks either. Forbidding ADA missile fire and ground-level attacks is actually consistent with the normal ground to air weapon rules.

You can fire up, or along the ground. Not both.

Still, why can't my multi-kiloton naval vessel shoot at two different things

Because fuck you, and fuck logic.

This is BT.

I would bet that if you asked, they'd probably issue errata sounding something like "any unit with multiple gunners can fire at both air and ground targets in a single turn"

Because in Battletech, AEGIS is a warship class, not a fire-control system.

Also, because

In it's spare time it's the mech for an anime teenage protagonist, or the ride of some bishie character in a JRPG.

Wasn't the big gun Cicada supposed to have been really rare/in limited service?

Yes. All variants are less common than the stock versions.

According to the fluff I'm familiar with, the Capellans only had a few of them, and they were relegated to being training machines and not used on the front lines at all.

I actually used it as the basis for a 50s Capellan Cicada variant when we were talking about AU House military organization and how we wished they had been set up pre-Clan Invasion. I pointed out that the Capellans had a love affair with the AC/20 that seemed to get tossed out randomly in favor of the Gauss Rifle, which is odd given the Thunder being a major development for them, and their L variant of the Urbie.

No, the next source book
Maybe they will release a TRO too, but nothing was announced

The topic was selection, not exclusives.

What are the Liao mechs for the early setting besides the Vindicator and Cicada then?
I'm guessing the big Atlas isn't one of them.

>What are the Liao mechs for the early setting besides the Vindicator and Cicada then?

Everyone has a lot of Bugs and Archers. The Unseen are available to everyone too.

Other than that, UrbanMech, Raven, Catapult, Striker, and Victor are all pretty well tied to the Cappies. The Dracs unloaded a bunch of Chargers onto them that they refit as well.

Basically anyone can have pretty much anything from TR 3039, it's just that certain designs are more closely linked to certain Houses. Real exclusivity mainly comes later.

Though even then you can lol Deth Kommandoes and steal everything any way.

They manufacture the Locust, Stinger, Raven, Vindicator, Wolverine, Rifleman, Thunderbolt, Cataphract, Victor, and Highlander.

In addition they have loads of Catapults compared to other factions. Plus the Clint, Grasshopper, JagerMech and Cyclops wouldn't be surprising to find with their forces.

>Ugly Mech Edition

I think the one in the middle is supposed to be a Flea, but it looks more like an AT-ST to me.

I want this now. Fei's gear is now an Atlas.

I thought the Capellans lost their Thunderbolt manufacturer and were getting theirs from the Taurians?

>Flea
>AT-ST
Like they're not the same thing. Also that's a new pic from that one guy for me, so~ neat!

There's at least one point where they don't manufacture the Victor or the Highlander, they can only go up to heavies.

>Also that's a new pic from that one guy for me, so~ neat!

In the words of W. Hudson, "If you liked that, yer gonna *love* this!"

Well, they were never really manufacturing Highlanders any way, just refurbishing them.

There's some Taurian guy who loves saying that but they had a line right through the 4th SW and had plenty in stock any way. If they were importing large numbers the logical place to look would be the FWL.

>I thought the Capellans lost their Thunderbolt manufacturer
They only lost that in the 4sw (unless you're the 'only MW 1e is canon' guy we get sometimes)
>and were getting theirs from the Taurians?
3039 mentions very occasional importation of *Griffins* from the TC, not thuds

It surprises me the Taurians, or any Periphery Nation for that matters, make anything worth selling to a Great House.

Even a desperate one.

The largest Periphery states have manufacturing capabilities that come close to the Confederation. Not terribly surprising. Taurians are easily the biggest, followed by the Magistracy, and both have more than sufficient resources for a not-insignificant amount of military manufacturing and supply.

But is any of it even worth a crud on the field technology wise?

I don't recall the Taurians, Canopians or any other Periphery Realm ever benefiting from the discovery of the Helm Memory Core in the years after it's discovery.

The books also make it seem like a lot of what they produce and field (pre Xin Sheng or Trinity Alliance) is junk.

There wasn't much of a mech tech gap between the periphery and great houses in 3025.

>The books also make it seem like a lot of what they produce and field (pre Xin Sheng or Trinity Alliance) is junk.
That's true of the magistracy, which was all bugs and shads all the time, but the TC's range of designs was on par with the inner sphere in terms of quality of base chassis

Did you know that In the 50s, pre xin sheng magic, the TC was actually fielding slightly more mechs in it's house units than the CC was?
The CapCon was laughably poorly off before coleman magic'd it back into power

>The CapCon was laughably poorly off before coleman magic'd it back into power
Shit like this is why I told new user that the CapCon was weaksauce. Don't know why no one believed me, they're worse off than a Periphery state.

>the TC was actually fielding slightly more mechs in it's house units than the CC was?

Not by any actual canon numbers it wasn't. Medron's delusions aren't a canon source.

I thought even the diminished Capellan Confederation was still far above any Periphery nation?

Their military was still twice the size of the TC, it's just that the difference was made up entirely of mercenaries.
Their manufacturing in the 50s was trash, their economy was on the brink of utter collapse, and their military was green and unreliable. Literally the only thing they had going for them pre-coleman was the Big MAC, who were unfailingly badass even in the most dire of times

The Big Mac also had better mechs than the rest of the Confederation given Archibalds trading company didn't they?

>The Big Mac also had better mechs than the rest of the Confederation given Archibalds trading company didn't they?
Yep. They were engaged in wholesale importation of mechs from the FWL, TC, to a lesser extent lyrans and drwcs, and even (through intermediaries) the Suns, rather than living on a diet of vindiators, cataphracts and bugs like the rest of the CCAF

That's one thing I like about the Big Mac.

They can make the best of a bad situation.

>living on a diet of vindiators, cataphracts and bugs like the rest of the CCAF

Could they even still produce things like Archers, Crusaders, Warhammers and the like by the time the Suns got done with them?

BLACKJACKED

Looks like there were no (known) Archer or Whammy factories in CapCon pre-Helm.

Their SW-era production includes:

Ares: (Bergan Industries)
Locust
Stinger

Asuncion: (Kallon Industries, lost to FWL 2SW and recaptured; lost again 3SW)
Crusader

Bernardo: (Kallon Industries, lost to FWL 2SW)
Crusader

Betelgeuse: (Hellespont Industrials)
Cataphract (post-4SW)
other production? (listed as 'mech manufacturer in earlier eras, but no specific designs named)

Capella: (Ceres Metals Industries)
Vindicator (developed between 1SW and 2SW)

Carver V: (unknown manufacturer; captured by FWL 2953, destroyed by raids by 2968)
Atlas
Victor
other heavy and/or assault 'mechs?

Corey: (Hollis Industries; destroyed 1SW)
BattleMaster
Catapult
Xanthos

Exedor: (Confederation Defense Corporation; destroyed 2SW)
Firebee

Grand Base: (Earthwerks Inc.)
Cataphract (post-4SW)
Stinger
other production? (largest Earthwerks facility in 3025? just making Stingers?)

Menke: (StarCorps)
Emperor (unclear when production stopped)

Nanking: (Kallon Industries)
Rifleman (possibly also produced at other facilities that were later destroyed)

Sian: (Hellespont Industrials)
Raven (developed just in time for 4SW)
Wasp

St. Ives: (StarCorps Industries)
Pillager (unclear when production stopped)

Styk: (Tao 'MechWorks; lost to FS 4SW)
unknown production (before being gutted by the defenders)
Victor (after capture by FS)

Tikonov: (Earthwerks Incorporated; captured by FS 4SW)
Cataphract (developed just in time to be captured)
Griffin (source is pre-SW, no mention in any later-era source; production line destroyed by raiding?)
Koschei (discontinued due to advanced components? though they could have just gone back to the introtech model; maybe that line got bombed too?)
Thug (another victim of the disappearing Tikonov production disease)
Thunderbolt

How the fuck do leg-mounted weapons fire when the thing is running around?
Or I guess I should say, how do they fire in the intended direction, let alone hit what you were aiming for?

I have to assume they are on some kind of gimbal mount attached to the joint? That's what it looks like on the knees of the Viking, and the hips of the Perseus in the art at least.

Relying on Sarna for production means you're in for a real bad time.

Taurianposter loves multiplying the TDF's regiments by a quarter to account for its oversized units but for some strange reason doesn't take into account Cappie units always including a command Lance, some of them being reinforced regiments, or the unlisted Death Commandos who at the time had expanded to at least a Battalion in strength. A lot of their merc units were so close to being House commands there was no functional difference, one of the few things about Xin Sheng that made any sense.

The CCAF's morale was dire but they're still larger than the TDF

They were.

Anyone who thinks the Taurians would have put up a stiffer defence if Hanse had decided to gift Melissa the Taurian Concordat would have been in for a rude shock.

ComStar would have laughed themselves silly instead of interfering too, so even that would have gone better for the Suns.

>Lance

*Company.

Time for some coffee.

>Relying on Sarna for production means you're in for a real bad time.

It's not like there's any other way to do it aside from going through - literally - 50 sourcebooks one by one.

Shit, not even CGL actually has that sort of info, and certainly nothing actually organized or spreadsheeted.

>going through - literally - 50 sourcebooks one by one

105, actually.

I wonder if I could get a job at CGL just consolidating and cataloging all the information that's out there.

You'd get a list of contradictions. It's not worth the effort.

But the production info isn't just needed, it's necessary.

>The CCAF's morale was dire

I thought it improved enough for them to beat back the Anduriens and Canopians and enough for them to become utter fanatics?

user I am an accountant
staring at spreadsheets of numbers that don't agree is what I do already

but working for CGL would be that but you don't get paid because someone took the money to buy a new porch

I still can't believe they just swept that under the rug and acted like nothing happened.

Still, it might be worth it doing something I could almost enjoy? I dunno.

Which reminds me, I'm supposed to be finishing our close instead of browsing /btg/ and thinking about battletech.

Don't do it because you want a job with them. Do it as a project to show everyone what lazy assholes they ultimately are.

CGL does have the info, but a certain chunk of it is wishful thinking or outright wrong. There have been a variety of fan efforts to consolidate it over the years, some even by current authors and fact-checkers. Canon stuff like the Objectives series make very little sense either, production lines that weren't even on planets that got hit in the Jihad randomly disappear, ones that were supposed to have been wrecked don't, and so on.

It's how MadCap got his job. Make of that what you will.

It's something I'd like for various reasons like AUs, campaigns ("go raid Planet X for spare parts needed by 'Mech Y, and grab any production runs of it that are there while you're at it") but, in a rare show of sympathy for CGL, I'll say I understand why they don't. Not only can the authors not get the information right to begin with, if they offer anything more than what units are built where the whole thing implodes due to FASAnomics. It's just not worth the effort from their end.

Besides, ilClan fucking *when?*

The fanaticism was mostly the Warrior houses. Lots of other units were questionable right up to xin sheng

Why don't you do the math and calculate what the CCAF's house units would total and we can compare. I don't think many of their post-4th SW units were reinforced, and the Death Commandos were mostly dead so not really at battalion strength.

>some even by current authors and fact-checkers. Canon stuff like the Objectives series make very little sense either, production lines that weren't even on planets that got hit in the Jihad randomly disappear, ones that were supposed to have been wrecked don't, and so on.
And they say Objective Raids was bad

>Anyone who thinks the Taurians would have put up a stiffer defence if Hanse had decided to gift Melissa the Taurian Concordat would have been in for a rude shock.

Why would you even say that when no one has said anything like that? Stop being an obnoxious shitposter trying to stir up trouble.

Yeah didn't the Technicron facility on Savannah get forgotten or something?

Actual canon figures do support that user's post. Yelling "Medron" isn't an argument.

One other thing that makes this even more annoying is that units are often at 100% of paper strength, but the only sources we have for the 50s don't have that information

And you know what's another thing that REALLY grinds my gears? The various FMs not being set on the same year. It's incredibly frustrating

Yeah I know. I agree 100%.

For the sake of their debate, we'd have to just go on paper numbers I suppose.

I guess? It depends on what you look at.

The 20-Year Update and Invasion-era novels all left me with the impression that the CapCon was still suffering from at least Romano's purges if not Hopeless Battle Syndrome. It's one of the things I didn't like about Xin Sheng, that it flipped the switch between a feeble, fearful CCAF into an unstoppable juggernaut with unbreakable morale.

If they've walked that back in Brush Wars (I have it, I just mostly read Duncan't stuff and the Ronin War) then I can actually get behind it for doing something to reduce the retardation of Xin Sheng.

Everyone who's not a Merc or certain of the Warrior Houses is Reliable in 20YU.

I mentally replace "post-4th SW" with "3050 era" if that helps. Either way it doesn't appear that the CCAF expanded between the end of the 4th SW and 20YU; it actually seems they lost some House units between the two for whatever reasons.

Mea culpa. The basic point is that it was the FedSuns' finest hour and nobody was going to hold them back. If he'd targeted the Dracs or somehow been able to reach the FWL he would have broken them too.

>it actually seems they lost some House units between the two for whatever reasons.
Constant border skirmishes with st.ives. they also lost some guys between 50 and 54

Lost some guys the same way
Goddamnit, got cut off