Wisdom is the primary ability score of the Cleric

>wisdom is the primary ability score of the Cleric
>WISDOM
>PRIMARY SCORE OF THE CLERIC
>W I S D O M

>Wisdom: A measure of a character's common sense and judgement.
>common sense
>CLERIC

WHY IS THIS ALLOWED.

It's only common sense to believe in a god when it gives you super powers for doing so.

>HERF DERF GOD GIVES FOLLOWERS SUPERPOWERS
Shut the fuck up. even NPC commoners have a diety, why the fuck dont they get spells? even level zero onions spells? Clerics are a goddamn trash class that doesnt belong in an otherwise perfect game. Separation of Church and State was a good thing and clerics should be a subset state of a character not a fucking profession. Common sense shouldnt affect your spellcasting either clerics should be INT based.

I'm a maltheistic gnostic atheist secular satanist, and your level of fedora tipping is making me cringe.
Maybe you should re-evaluate the nature of role-playing games, because I think you might be missing something fundamentally important.

>im retarded: the post

I'm wondering OP, where do you get your neckbraces?

Historically, priests and monks were commonly called in to deal with various "supernatural" problems that could be solved with some critical thinking.

In Scandinavia, many villagers living on the coast would find their meals by rappelling down and harvesting eggs from the nests of cliffside birds. On many occasions, an unfortunate egg-harvester's rope would break, and they would go plunging into the rocky waters below. Folklore says that trolls were living in caves on these very same cliffs, and would go out with sharp knives and cut the ropes themselves. As such, the villagers would send for a priest to banish the trolls and make the cliffs safe to work on.

Well, the priest would gladly do his job, singing hymns and spraying holy water on the rocks. And, if he decided to bring a chisel and dull the jagged rocks on the cliff's edge while he was doing it, more power to him. Oddly enough, it seems that cliffs that were attended to by priests never had problems with trolls again.

It looks like you want to make a sort of anti religious statement here. Ok.

But you can in fact bring wisdom as a clerics stat in line with your philosophy.

Wisdom describes experience with human nature which is used by the malevolent power hungry clergy to shrewdly manipulate the masses into serving a false god for their own benefit. Clergy is a social position.

So you can have your church bad narrative and keep Wisdom. Keep your thinking flexible. Wouldn't want to blindly adhere to some dogmatism after all, eh?

It's been a while, OP. Everything okay with you?

>WHY IS THIS ALLOWED.
Because monks and priests were the first ones to liberate themselves from roasties and life as a wagecuck.

What are "roasties"? Is that a UK thing, like telly and footy?

The gods are real in fantasy.

>gods are real and bear real power in the setting
>it isn't good sense and judgment to get in good with them

>Intelligence is the primary score of the Wizard
>INTELLIGENCE
>PRIMARY SCORE OF THE WIZARD
>I N T E L L I G E N C E

>Intelligence: A measure of a character's rational processing and memory.
>rational
>WIZARD

Why is this allowed?

Because there's a stark difference between intelligence and wisdom, and wizards aren't necessarily and often aren't all that wise.

>The class other than paladin that is most strongly tied to the moral issues reflected by an alignment system.
>Shouldn't be sensible and have a strong sense of judgment.

Pick one.

worshiping and following a god's teachings is only unwise if that god isn't real

in the universes RPG Clerics exist in the gods are very much real
therefore
not unwise to worship these very powerful beings

Commoners devote their lives to growing turnips not spreading their gods teachings and fighting its enemies. No god cares about turnips.

Except a god of agriculture, but just being a farmer only gets you so much favor.

>no god cares about turnips

>t. an abomination unto Nuggan

In a setting where priests have holy power, a deity's presence and influence are observable phenomena that can be replicated. You can speak to your god and even ascend to divinity yourself.

Common sense checks out. Hang up that fedora.

I thought turnips were one of the abominations? Wouldn't Nuggan be a-ok with hating turnips?

It's an /r9k/ (I think) term for a female human, because the outer lips of some women's vaginas vaguely resemble roast beef.

Basically when you see someone posting it, you can assume that they blame women for realizing they're a creepy loser.

Here come the (you)s

Obviously, you're wrong. It's not a term for women in general, but women with an "outie" vagina (one where the labiae minor are larger than the labiae maior, resulting in "beef curtains" rather than a somewhat aesthetic, tucked-in look). The belief (which I cannot confirm, I'm no gynaecologist) is that these "roastie" vaginas are the result of promiscuity, while a less used vagina remains more 'tucked in'.

The biological truth doesn't even matter at this point, it's a term more or less on par with "slut", or perhaps the female equivalent of "limp dick".

The same reason most priests don't, they are not the chosen of said god.

Look buddy, we get it, you don't believe in jebus. Good for you. In D&D the gods are real, their miracles (cleric/paladin spells) too numerous to count, and they occasionally physically appear and wreck and/or fix shit in front of a world full of witnesses.

>they blame women for realizing they're a creepy loser.
This line made me crack up. Here, have a (you).

>okay, I want super powers but I wasn't born with them. I can either
>study for a decade or more till I can use cantrips
>be a tree fucker and live outside the comforts of civilization
>work for the church

I dunno, you tell me.

Obviously, you don't know what you're talking about since it gets used for women regardless of if it's known they have long lips.
Sure it may have started with more specific meaning but the common usage has evolved to just be a meme buzzword equivalent to "bitches reeeee!"

Honestly the fact Druids use Wisdom makes less fucking sense than this guys triggered fedora tipping.

That much I agree with, though I don't know how much of it is my personal biases seeping through.

>Strength is the primary score of the Barbarian
>STRENGTH
>PRIMARY SCORE OF THE BARBARIAN
>S T R E N G T H

>Strength: A measure of a character's physical prowless and ability.
>ability
>BARBARIAN

I think it's the old man of the woods and magic hippie don't fit into the cleric class and no other mental stat makes sense.

Because if they had low wis, they'd turn atheist.

This is a shitty bait thread.

>X is the primary ability score of [class]
Don't play shit systems?

furries get out

...

Why can't anyone be a cleric?

>look at this man
>not knowing the glory of Bogrump

When a pantheon of deities ACTUALLY EXIST in a setting, grant powers to their faithful servants, and actively fuck with mortals on a daily basis, you're goddamned right Wisdom becomes a primary ability for the clergy.

On a side note, Intelligence is knowing fire is hot, that it's a chemical reaction, and that things like petroleum and dry wood and vegetation are highly flammable. Wisdom tells you not to stick your hand in it.

Anyone can. But it usually takes dedication and a strict following of that deity's moral code.

I let all NPCs and players with an established faith in a diety have two level 0 cleric spells per day, based around whatever they believe in. It's only when you get serious and become a full fledged cleric do you get access to more serious boons of your faith.

sometimes only the chosen of a god can become a full on spellcasting cleric. really, they should be called prophets, that is basically what they are. Talking to god, getting god to kill non-believers and evil ones with magic, doing holy quests, etc.

keep in mind this is only in certain settings though, I'm just doing what I like to use.

>He doesn't fold the Cleric and Wizard classes together
>He doesn't let the Wizard/Cleric class combo learn their spells from deities, from ancient secrets, a combination of the two
>He doesn't make Int the primary spellcasting stat for learning spells and crafting items BUT controlling magic uses WIS
>He doesn't have rules that encourage the fluff of a edgy Sorcerer accidentally releasing a demon because High Int/Low Wis and then the village mystic controlling and banishing it because of his high Wisdom

>This is still something you haven't done
>2017

>tfw ur god wakes u up in the middle of the night
>tfw he tells u he's gonna make u wreck the shit out of subhuman infidel scum
>tfw he tells you his master plan of raining fire down and then earthquaking the shit out of them
>tfw u cant go to sleep that night cuz ur too excited now
>tfw he gets mad when u come downstairs while he's tryin to watch netflix with his girl on the couch

anime please go.

better scenario:
>play a grizzled war veteran who has to hunt bears on the mountain
>find an ancient dwarven stronghold
>battles an exiled demon released by digging too deep using throwing axes, holy water flasks and knee high walls for cover to regenerate life
>multiplayer mode lets you fight clones of yourself in deathmatch or capture the flag modes

is this shit some kind of meme or not?

>is this shit some kind of meme or not?
>SHIT
>SOME KIND OF MEME
>S H I T

>Shit: Excrement from the body; unwanted waste.
>unwanted waste
>(YOU)

Pasta doesn't get better with age (or autism), you know.

OP is a faggot.

Now that's out of the way I do think the distinction between wisdom and intelligent is pretty arbitrary in d20.

Most the other ability as well as being fairly self-explanatory also inform other derived stats, like hit points or carry limit, the choice between intelligence and wisdom seems to be just choice between one spell list or the other.

Because in most communities until around the 1950s, clergymen were generally expected to be the type of people who were good at listening to people's problems, and giving them insightful aid and advice, especially since psychology wasn't much of a thing yet. Further, to be a theologian often requires a great ammo t of time spe t dedicated to contemplation and philosophical thought on the nature of what they believe and how it applies to life and living.

So in other words, clerics are expected to be part theological philosopher, and part community moral/spiritual/psychological leader and guide, hence why they would have a need for high Wis, and be given abilities based on both their divine connection and theological understanding, since their god would know that they would be wise enough to use the power responsibly

Then again this would have been obvious if you hadn't had your fedora screwed on so tightly

Of course clerics have high wisdom OP, they're the most OP class in the game.

If they won't wise they will be playing bards or something

...

Holy shit, this is great!

I get it. It's a Friday, but is Veeky Forums so starved for content we now entertain this shit?

>Old pasta thread
>Replies keep pilling up rather than just hiding the thread
And the worst part is that I'm part-taking in this

It's because folkloric druids were cunning and wise men who solved problems using herbal remedies (the effects of which they learned through deduction and experience) and effective, practical solutions.

>even level zero onions spells

An onion spell seems like it'd belong to a druid, not a cleric.

the real question is why would a cleric use wisdom when being a wizard is objectively the best class

Well hold on a second, is it possible to make a cleric that could be considered slow on the uptake? Not necessarily "no common sense," but rather that he's not able to put two and two together as fast as others. (Not arguing whether he CAN put two and two together, that's INT.)

CASE IN POINT, I'm trying to figure out how to create a Pathfinder !PETA that focuses on rare magical animals. The members believe that dragons, centaurs, merfolk, insert-species-here are endangered and need saving (they're not; they either just don't populate that fast or look endangered because they tend to stay secluded.) On top of that, they really don't know what much about these creatures in general, and have the tendancy to mistake one creature for another (Psudeodragons tend to be targeted more often than real dragons.) Still, that's no reason to stop doing the Right Thing for these creatures...

I'm looking at making each member a CN Rogue/Cleric hybrid (A level of Cleric for every three levels of Rogue) so they can have Animal and Liberation domain, though they tend to rely on Rogue abilities to do what they want. My problem is reasoning the Cleric levels beyond that, since this concept feels like they just don't have ANY logical thinking, not just lack of intelligence.

The average worshiper gets their blessings in the form of a cleric showing up and blessing their fields to give a good harvest.

...

A cleric perceives the fundamental relationships between people and the Gods, the basis of all things in the universe. They seek to place themselves within this network of relationships for the good of all, acting as intermediaries between the divine and the mortal. They are wise, seeing to work with the order of things for the good of the many.

A wizard, on the other hand, thinks he understands, and indeed has some grasps of the mechanisms of the universe and its relationships. Through hard study and experimentation she picks up tiny motes of the power that comes to the Gods naturally, and seeks to distort the world around him to suit his purposes, stealing power and even whole organisms from other dimensions for any number of reasons, most commonly and bizzarely in order to seek more knowledge, in order to achieve more power in order to seek more knowledge, ect. The phrase "Wizards; no sense of right and wrong" is more common than "Clerics; no sense of right or wrong" because Clerics moniter themselves with creeds and a series of relationships and accountabilities to mortals and the divine, whereas Wizards are likely to seek out solitude in order to get away with their violations of the order of the universe.

it's partaking, fyi

You realize your argument is null and void in settings where gods actively shape events and give people magic powers, including a spell that lets you talk directly with them and play 20 questions, right? This isn't like the real world where the only thing they're going off of is blind faith and an ancient book that's been retranslated, rewritten, and reinterpreted countless times.

That's literally what he fucking said.
It's just a stand in for slut now.

What would be the primary stat of a shitposter class?

Technically, the term "wizard" comes from the word "wise" (wise-ard), so there's kind of a point to complaining about D&D Wizards not running off Wisdom.

That said, the kinds of people that were originally referred to as "wizards" barely resemble the modern D&D Wizard so it's relatively acceptable to have them run off a different stat.

The point is saying that *dislikedbwoman* is a slut with a pussy that has been gaped out by their constant slutting

Okay having PETMA (People for Ethical Treatment of Magical Animals) as villains in your campaign sounds hilarious. Maybe they protest regularly in front of the adventurer's guild, and need rescuing after trying to raid a local dungeon in order to set free the dragon living in there?

Well, you need WIS to bargain those powers out of your god. Pray hard enough to get powers (if it's possible) or don't give a shit about gods at all - it's common sense.

Can I buy this game somewhere?

so you're saying the smartest and most logical casters should be religious?
because all that INT means they understand that worshipping gods is the correct choice.

Are you Canadian?

Did you get molested by a priest when you were a kid?

fucking religious nutjob trump supporters need to gtfo

No, that sort of thing was in fact on an old witch hunter's sign what a woman slept with the devil whose gigantic dick formed her cooch thusly.

Autism

>someone points out religion is illogical
>comments full of fedora memes

holy shit you people need to grow out of having an imaginary friend

I don't play any pen and paper games, but wouldn't it make more sense to have a Faith stat for clerics, rather than using wisdom?

>PETMA
>need rescuing after trying to raid a local dungeon

So, are we supposed to rescue the monsters or what? Because otherwise the situation seems self-solving.

Religion may not be logical, but they do serve purposes. The better ones even explain what the purpose is. The best ones don't concern themselves with gods and afterlives.

>someone points out religion is illogical in a fictional setting where gods' existence can be proven and they intervene in the material world on a daily basis
Well, the idea of money and/or ownership is illogical too. I mean, what shit setting would seriously believe partitioning common land for private use? Or owning an idea? I mean, how retarded would that be? And it gets worse, I've heard of a setting that translates *all* worth into an arbitrary scale based on relatively-useless metals. Just look at it, someone must've been either really bored or on drugs to come up with it.

I just got my shit kicked in by an evil cleric and now i'm pissy: the post

Look at this unenlightened goblin.

Best post.
/thread

Not in a setting where you have proof that gods exists.

you get out

You're off your chump

>you will never know the feeling of being as butthurt as OP

When I was trolling some forum in 2014, I was delighted by every bit of attention, so I guess OP has an evil giggle even at fedora pics

no u

I wonder who could be behind this thread...

to anyone that replied to please take your religious nonsense to /pol/ or /trash thanks because in reality god doesnt exist and fantasy games are fucking retarded for trying to encapsulate semi-realism but bringing this trash into it.

...

>maltheistic gnostic atheist secular satanist
This is not a valid combination, start over from the beginning.

Here, have a Veeky Forums meme.

>all religions are judgmentAL and dogmatic
>this is the only truth and you shall be burned at the stake for thinking otherwise
EMPRAH?

Wisdom is instinct and raw cunning.

could i have some more? i need (you)s desparately to fill this void in my heart after waking up to find my dog dead at the foot of my bed after sixteen years.