Modern Fantasy General

Magical Roadtrip Soundtrack: Track #1 - youtu.be/HH3ruuml-R4

I think that it would be fine for extraordinary things like resurrection and time shenanigans to be possible, but definitely not easily achieved and possibly not even legal. That makes for more interesting possibilities than just slapping things down with a flat "no".

>No breaking basic physics. or at least make it sneaky. No anime bullshit.
Gonna have to disagree. I'd like to see magic as being elemental spell and physical enhancement for combat
Mages would be using things like Fireball, Cone of Cold, Wall of Force and the like and Warriors would be using wuxia/fighting game style moves by channeling magic into the body
Magic such as summoning or anything on a massive scale or of any degree of permanence require either multiple people or a magical array prepared ahead of time usually in the form a magical item for the smaller stuff like a Bag of Holding

I mean, stuff like fireball, cone of cold, and wall of force (and wuxia/anime style moves as well) are all technically possible through real physics. They just take an insane amount of energy to accomplish.

Magic is about enhancing or weakening the natural properties of a thing.

For example, lighting a fire using snow a kindling is impossible. Flying without wings is impossible for a human (but jumping stupidly high isn't out of the question). Magical effects are generally difficult to perform from a distance. So no asploding heads in other countries.

Magical effects are always noticeable to some degree, but those deeply involved with magic have an easier time sensing its presence. A super powerful wizard having a vision quest dream in his apartment is the paranormal equivalent of "HEY EVERYONE LOOK WHAT I'M DOING!!!".

Shapeshifting is possible but not something done willy nilly. There must be some connection to the thing being transformed into: be it a totem animal which helped out/married your clan's ancestor ages ago or a magical contagion/knowledge with the person you'll turn into.

We have two opposing ideas about how magic should be done. I personally say it should be more grounded but still have that more wild, untamed side to it. Maybe ressurection magic is possible, but it is highly forbidden magic and illegal in all but the most impoverished countries. Same goes for stuff like teleportation, time travel, ect... I'm also a big sucker for life magic that sucks life force from the user to power the spell.

This or something like here The world and it's people (at least some of them) should clearly be different from those of a normal modern setting. We can fudge the lower and lower-medium levels of power to allow for cool shit. But the upper levels should be strictly defined, and if not, out of reach of single mortals.

Being capable of cool shit is desirable. Being capable of bullshit on a whim is not.

I agree with this sentiment. It's something we can really use to help usher the setting into its modern age in a unique way. Very low level magic that improves the lives of the common folk is accessible to anyone but anything beyond that it another ballpark.

I for one have no problem banning/limiting things like time, resurrection and teleportation I just want the magic the players use to be more than a fireball every other encounter
Magic should tire the user or draw on a mana pool sure but I don't want it to be as taxing as some others have suggested

I don't see why teleportation should be outlawed. Shit would be convenient as fuck. If you want to put limits on it just mix Mage rules with Dresden rules. You need a sympathetic link to where you want to go and you can't just pop into someone's house without their consent. Obviously it's difficult magic and areas can be warded from it.

I think a combination of a mana pool and tiring the user out would be good. There is also the issue of who is a magic user and if it is a genetic trait or not. What my main point is though is that high tier stuff like time and resurrection should be stuff that old mages could've done but new, modern mages can't. Maybe there were fewer, but more powerful mages in the past but now there are more mages, but as a whole they are weaker.

Teleportation magic would put a hamper on trade between nations, especially those that get a large amount of their revenue out of taxing trade routes. Due to its utility, I can see it being another outlawed magic, or at least one that only mages with a high level of training (or those given clearance by the government) can use. It's not impossible to use, but people will hunt you down if you use it, there are limitations on where you can travel, and its easily warded against.

Very true

As a rule of thumb when it's possible to cause, stop, or reverse large scale natural disasters/screw with the fundamental laws of physics we're reaching a limit.

Beings capable of affecting the planet/galaxy should be endgame business or uninvolved directly for whatever reason.

I imagine when the tech levels reaches computers, that it'll ironically go a bit more into high fantasy. Like streamlining a bunch of complex rituals into code ala Megami Tensei.

There could still be a ton of problems with it, like still requiring resources (and maybe needing more than doing it manually), or bad coding doing a whole lot more than just an error.

Let me tell you why Modern Fantasy will never ever work.

Memes. Memes absolutely will ruin Modern Fantasy.

Imagine your an Advent-, I mean Mercenary who is in a tavern when you meet a Dwarf, Elf, and Halfling. You're contracted to do some fetch quest because the DM has no imagination. 1/2 though your first fight, the Elf goes "Killed em like Harambe xD".

Now the Dwarf thankfully is drunk, and just slurs his speech everything while tanking shots from a AK47(also he has a +2 Meme resistance), but not the Halfling, who is also infected by the memeshit the Elf just had to vomit out.

Now the Halfling is a Rogue, which requires stealth, but now he's spouting out meme shit as well. As he's going "LOL HARAMBE GOT PLAY OF THE GAME!", it's enough to draw the attention of one of the foes you're fighting blam, dead Halfling.

Oh, and don't forget, you the human are now spouting memeshit as well. You stop shooting and pull out your phone in order to tweet "Team mates spouting old 2016 memes, So Sad!" which takes 4~6 full actions because you have no resistance to Memes.

So now you're dead, and the Elf probably buggered off at this point to join Wil Wheaton's entourage of FUCKING NERDS, leaving the Dwarf to die a sad, drunken death.

And THAT Ladies and Gents, is why Modern Fantasy will never, ever work.

Maybe mages can use some form of the last airbender style combat?

what kind of baiting shitpost is this?
(you)

I would think magic would be something like a background field of mana that exists throughout the universe
Magic Users Mages and Warriors are like Marvel Mutants mixed with traditional Wizards as such they are born able to channel magic for anything more than lighting a candle but have to train to utilize it effectively and increase the amount they can channel

Have you tried not playing DnD?

How about something like this For now, I'm mostly concerned with a bird's eye view of what magic, in the hands of mortals, is capable of. And for that, we need a clear picture of what is difficult, unfeasible and simply impossible.

Maybe people have to apply for teleportation permits with pre-declared locations like your house and your place of business or study or whatever. And maybe it could enhance trade instead, with the mass teleportation service being what is taxed instead of a route. Unauthorized teleportation will be registered via a spell on your permit and it will cast a pre-prepared tracking spell on you so that the wizard cops will know where to find you.

Possible, but costly.

The implications computers would have on geometric magic like hermeticism is frightening

Sounds good until we can hammer out the extreme limit of magic

I like this idea. Magic exists as a field much like the force that exists in everything and magic users (whether they be casters or martials or some hybrid of both) just utilize it. How powerful your magic is depends on your training and your skill as a mage.
As I have pointed out previously, anything that cannot occur naturally in real life (or as another user pointed out, reverse natural disasters) I think would break the limit.
I like this. Basically teleportation magic is taxed and heavily regulated/monitored so that people can't abuse it. And if you do use it unregulated, the po po is on your ass. Having permits for teleportation (or maybe only having teleportation at certain areas since it uses up a lot of magic) is a good way to streamline it. The anti-magic police would be scary as fuck though.

>The anti-magic police
Would this be Anti-Magic or police trained to deal with magic because we might not want to touch on the former until we've nailed regular magic

I mean't more like police trained to deal with rouge mages. Maybe Anti-Mage police would be a better name.

I really dislike bloodline, inherited magic. I'm fine with it requiring talent, effort, years of study, etc. Unless it is truly random, such that a mage is as likely to father/mother a magical child as someone who's never had a mage in their line.

I envisioned it as mostly training but that training is predicated on having the inborn "spark", if you have the "spark" and don't train then you can't really do shit
I also thought it would be possible for non Magic Users to birth Magic Users and vice versa

I personally like the idea of magic users creating more powerful magic users bloodline style. Makes for an interesting poor vs rich dynamic.

I honestly think that it's not so much of a big deal. Regular people won't all be doing magic. Some of them just won't have the aptitude for it while others just won't bother. So the people with the capability to become proper mages aren't commonplace, and they're faced with a whole new obstacle after discovering their magic talent: finding a proper magical education. Not easy to come by. Maybe you could find a master to teach you, or maybe there's an expensive academy that you either have to pay for or let the government pay for in exchange for being a government mage after you graduate. So even before we get to the possibilities of magic itself, we have limitations to observe and prices to pay.

And I'm all for precautions against magic. Try to smite the president with a lightning bolt? Congratulations, you wasted a ton of energy and time for nothing, because he has top tier magic wards and his secret service wizards are tracing the spell back to you as we speak.

In my own setting I have it to were is an energy from another plane that is channeled by the caster and used to create an effect. Only a select number have the compasity to channel this energy properly.

What about chi/ki/mana/prana/vital force?

>AMTU
>Anti-Mage Task Unit
Armed with spell deflecting riot shields and enchanted taser shotguns.

I think an important distinction is to be made between mana/magical power and chi. Chi quite possibly might just be mana used for martial combat or to augment fighting ability while "real" mana is for traditional spell casting.
>tfw i am casting your fireball spell as we speak, your done kiddo
kek. I do like the idea of most magical educations/institutions being government owned/run though.

We need natural and effective ways to counter magic that isn't just another mage casting a spell or you might as well have all the mages in power and be done with it. Doesn't matter what it is, it just matters that it exists and those in power are aware of it and make use of it.

That's probably something to tackle as the inherently spritiual nature of Asian magic is something agilely different from European conceptions of magic.

Maybe magic only works in certain places (lay lines anyone) or is only strong in some place. I can also imagine certain metals or inscriptions acting as magic repellent or granting resistance to magic (not immunity though)

Chi kind of is kind of like the force in that it exists everywhere and certain people can harness it to pull off superhuman shit like setting their hands on fire.

I think that's what was saying. Magic exists everywhere and only mages can use it. How they use it depends on how the mage was trained and where their talents lie (some are better at traditional "i cast fireball" magic, others in more obscure styles)

It should be more of an out-of-universe concept. For the people in-setting, it should just be a fact of life. It's simply known that if you practice long and hard at such-and-such sword school, that you can learn to do awesome/cool things with both your body and a sword.

If that is the case then I think it'd be more like a Fate style of "bloodlines" in which certain families keep their own magic research to themselves and only train mages from their own families with such knowledge.
So you can still have a rich vs poor dynamic without the inherit problem of just having a family in which everyone is born with some extraordinary magic ability.

>secret service version of a wizard
that sounds badass

We can always use beings of a cosmic style/guardians from a higher plane of existence type of thing that maintain the order of things. So when a wizard goes a little too far into violating the natural order of things fucking with the laws of nature it puts a stop to things.
It'd definitely help in building some kind of lore. Creates an idea of a what and why in terms of limits that also add to the lore of the setting.

Well, taking inspiration from real life here. Ever heard of the Evil Eye charm? It supposedly negates hostile powers acting on you.

Hermes told Odysseus to use moly to protect himself from Circe's powers.

African tribes were so paranoid about magic they traded protective fetishes like baseball cards.

I think that a major requirement of many magic "schools" would be that a person have the aptitude for magic though. Your average Joe can't just join the Flying Dragon Blade school of swordsmanship.

>If that is the case then I think it'd be more like a Fate style of "bloodlines"
That's exactly what I was thinking of when I said that, yeah.

European magic is spiritual.

It's rooted in the religions of Hermeticism, Neo-Platonism, and Gnosticism. The average European wizard achieved power through spiritual development and commanding spirits in the name of God.

Maybe have a special, separate organization that polices all supernaturals, not just mages. Like modern Knights Templar. They have secret methods and techniques to counter offensive magic and ferret out mages that have rooted themselves in the government with mind magic. Zero tolerance policy. If they're coming for you, they're coming to kill you. Mages can police their own for minor offensives.

>when a wizard goes a little too far into violating the natural order of things fucking with the laws of nature it puts a stop to things.
Or invites him to join them?

I'm fine with that. Not so much if it's just cause he didn't win the genetic lottery and none of his family ever will. You can join just fine, if you pass whatever entry requirement exists, but he doesn't mean you have any talent or aptitude for the art.

I think there are governmental anti-mage groups (as well as companies that specialize in that kinda protection/PMC work) as well as psudo-religious groups as well. A combination of militant cults and professionally trained operators

Really the only difference is that the Europeans refer to the shit that lets you do magic and superhuman feats God and the Asians called it Chi

Given the fact that Asia's stuff around magic tends to involve more ghost and demons I'm inclined to disagree there.

I mean I guess naturally-born mages have an innate aptitude and "feel" for magic than normal people. Just like how some people are just better at sports or math than others, some people are just better at magic. Sure, if you physically train yourself you might be able to beat a natural mage, but you will eventually get outclassed. If that was what you were getting at

That doesn't sound like a bad idea.
A council of protectors, you might say? Elevated beyond the mortal plane to keep watch over the balance of nature.

Actually pretty accurate, one thing I loved about about Indian religion is the fact that Demons, Gods, and men pretty much get their power from the same source.

>A council of protectors
That could work too I guess

It's sort of sounds like a lanky dude getting into a power lifting competition with a pretty big guy.

I mean that some people are better at magic the same way some are better at sports or maths. Anyone from any walk of life can find they have an aptitude for it. Whether they want to, or are even able to pursue it is another matter.

for you
Except that lanky dude can punch like the Veeky Forums guy, or harder with the right training, given time and practice

Like the people that gods put in charge of watching over earth to make sure shit doesn't get blow up by the stupid mortals?

Well we have to figure out whether mages get their aptitude genetically or randomly then. If we want to mix the two it's quite possible that you can merely raise your chances by breeding with another mage but there are still freak cases where mages are produced in non-mage marriages.

To elaborate, you can teach anyone 2+2, while quantum physics is a little harder to impart unto others.

Magical bloodlines are kind of a standard trope in fantasy, hell Merlin was half-demon

But usually they won't bother (so much effort) and instead just spend that effort on getting a good job and buying a forklift to lift for him.

If we're voting, I vote "everyone can magic" setting. Just like (basically) any human can climb Everest, but who has time for all that training and shit?

Also I like the idea of 'magic' drawing from a general stamina pool. You can't cast spells till out of mana and then wade in with a sword- the act of casting absolutely exhausts you down to your bones.

That also means bookeeping fatigue is easier- everyone gains [X] per round of combat. No tracking spell slots, MP, etc.

It's somewhat reminiscent of the Council of Reeds.
Fuck that was such an awesome event.

>Attempt to obtain such powers
>Council intervenes
>Either attain the power and join them
>Attain the power and die
>Have memory forcibly erased, effectively starting over in terms of magic skill
>Abandon the pursuit of such powers

It would make for an interesting mechanic and for some people, a fantastic plot device.

Yes

We can have our cake and eat it too. I would either say allow for both or go purely random. It would help make for interesting stories and characters without forcing everybody who uses magic into a "mage family".

I mean while you are right that almost everyone can climb Everest, some are just born more physically adept and use that as a stepping stone to become better at climbing or whatever physical activity they choose to do. I'm personally a fan of the hybrid system where it just increases your odds of having a mage child if your partner is a mage.

Both is my vote as well. Allows for both types of characters as well as interesting situations.

I'm also for 'everyone can magic'. Not everyone does because it isn't and has never been easy. It also doesn't confer unto you godlike power, no matter what the peasants thought. Wizards of yore may have used this misunderstanding to worm their way into the halls of power or cower nations, but nowadays we know it's use in the hands of mortals to not be all-powerful.

I wouldn't mind magic causing fatigue but we would need to establish how much magic you could cast before being too exhausted to fight
Personally I would have lower powered spells/moves like Magic Missile and Mage Armor cost nothing but things like Fireball and Cone of Cold would cause you to start to accrue fatigue
You could also have the level of spell you could freely cast go up at certain levels of experience but that might be too much

Ya'll need to read some Desolation

I think mana should work like this: A mage can draw in mana from a place of power or it just flows back into him over time, but bigger spells take more mana, and the feeling of mana leaving your body imparts severe but brief exhaustion, so no chain casting thunderbolts. The mage also has a limit to how much mana he store, and if he expends it all too quickly, it hurts. A lot. He wouldn't be able to cast any spells until he recovered, even if he was able to restore his mana.

I'm for having who your mom/dad fucked be useful in determining what magic schools are open to you and have zero impact on whether you can or can't use magic at all.

Post a DL link and I will
My reasoning for allowing a free magic spell/a free buff move for warriors is that it is the basic moves they can perform and can always do
For example in the Dragon Age RPG and Fantasy Age RPG Mages get a free magical attack it only targets one person and does about as much damage as a weapon but they can always do it no spell points required

That's not really something that has to do with the principals of magic itself though. That's much more of a societal within the world itself.

We should hammer the setting a bit. Would the cities be all magical or closer to what we have in reality? Would it be DnD with modern technology or just the World of Darkness minus all the masquerade/paradox/disbelief crap?

Anyone and everyone is capable of magic, the same way they are capable of breathing, the same way everyone has a heartbeat, the same way everyone has a brain nestled in their skulls. The capacity and opportunity to make use of this is another matter entirely.

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Use base64

I would imagine the cities being much more magical than we would normally expect. Lots of floating objects, automated services (Think streetlights, plumbing, transportation).
It's kind of hard to imagine since the rest of the setting hasn't really been looked at in much detail. What kind of landscapes are we looking at? What races exist in these landscapes? Where do they live?

All that aside, this is a little bit of what I imagine.

I see what you're getting at now. I'm not really sure how to go about determining aptitude towards magic to be completely honest.

More images

My custom magic 'systems' have always been pretty bizarre. You don't get "fireball", instead you can vomit stomach acid with enough force to splash 20 feet.

>World of Darkness minus all the masquerade/paradox/disbelief crap
I would be fine with that when it came to the mechanics of magic but I detest WoD's style

A lot of people in the previous threads have brought up Final Fantasy as a big inspiration for the setting in addition to a D&D style world so I think trying to combine the two would be preferable
I would go with more of FF for the feel of the world with more of a D&D style race selection

...

I like the idea of everyone being able to use magic with training, but it all depends on how available training is. Maybe both back alley/unsanctioned training as well as official educational systems are both valid. Don't know if one would have specific advantages over the other tho

>Not just giving everyone +whatever Meme Resistance

Floating shit and plentiful and ubiquitous magic
I would expect the architecture to be mildly impossible, like reinforced with magic to build bigger and crazier structures

Official education would be expensive and regulated. You would only learn what the government is okay with you learning, if you could even afford it without offering years of contracted employment to the government or a corporation. Advanced technique courses would be even more expensive and would have even more conditions.

You could find a master if you looked hard enough, but good luck convincing him to take you as an apprentice over all the other hopefuls. And if he does choose you, the training won't be fun or easy.

Of course the world would be dotted with ancient ruins and structures filled with lost magic

I'm all for the knowledge being out there, whether in legitimate academies or the criminal underworld. The crazy stuff is gated behind expensive reagents, cooperation between mages, magically active sites owned and protected by governments and corporations, stellar alignments, etc.

And magic/magitech would allow for cities built in fantastical locations

checked
That seems to be the way to go as the basis to work on. Especially since Final Fantasy has always been fantastic when it comes to an awesome fantasy style.

Well, when the world is established I'm sure this is going to need to be discussed. Keep the ideas flowing user. It'll be good to reference to when magic is finally set in stone.

Magic Architecture seems like a very inevitable field of study in a world like this. I don't mean for it to go crazy like but you get the point.

Fuck i hit post too early

Basically, I like the idea of most magic (or most 'spellcaster' magic) being high-impact. You don't throw a magic missile, you throw a nest of wasps through the ethereal plane into your enemy's body, where they proceed to chew their way out.

Magic that fucks up the user works as well. Think plasmids/vigours from Bioshock for the level of "skin burning off your hands, crystals growing through your skin, ligaments calcifying" levels of fucked up.

It also helps the setting stay somewhat grounded and familiar. If shooting fire from your hands requires actually setting your hands on fire, how many sensible people would try it?

Hell, mages could be seen much the same way as heroin addicts. "Look at that poor bastard, destroying their body for the temporary high of eye-lasers. Don't be like him, Tommy."

Look at Brent Weeks' Lightbringer series for a good example. Magic is taught to basically anyone talented, hooray!

Except that only seven colours are taught. Two have been used in-book that are 'officially' nonexistent. Orange magic is only useful for mind control and emotion control... or would be, but that's "heretical" and never taught.

If you're a Paryl mage, you're either killed for your heresy or never taught how to properly use your colour. If you're an orange mage, your job is to... lubricate stuff.

Unless you go to the 'heretical' teachers and get trained off-the-books. Which has its own dangers.