Warhammer Fantasy General: This is not The End

So let's get this straight. The other thread was fine, with healthy discussion, until you came in and started bitching, then when you got BTFO you decided to make another thread.

And you say other people are trolls?

There's already a General up with more posts.

I have (unfortunately) not played The Enemy Within. What year does it take place in, anyway? Maybe it's possible to tie it into Storm of Chaos and timeskip? Or is it decades apart?

Does anyone know when Return of Reckoning is expected to get out of Alpha? I can live with Beta, but I want all the bits and pieces in before i start playing... again.

Man, the original game got such a raw deal.

about 2046

It's set right before SoC I think, but the Empire in Flames end deviates from continuity that was developed after it (including SoC), so Empire at War was developed to put it in order with latter fluff.

The Enemy Within Companion, excelent and free book on this campaign, covers it in detail. It would be not really hard to recencile SoC as what came after TEW IMHO.

its playable right now if you enjoy the RvR aspects. The single player content and dungeons are very meh tier anyways and im not really looking forward to them wasting their time fixing up poorly made questchains anyway

Then I'd just go with that, honestly.

Thong is, while WAR had the only PvP/RvR that ever interested me, I'm really more of a PvE person, and I absolutely loved some of the quest-chains and the Public Quest system.

I was always a bit pissed at SW:ToR, supposedly developed largely by the same group of people failed miserably with the PvP and didn't even use public quests. Borderline bizarre, honestly.

>Thong
Thing, obviously. Slip of the tablet.

Freudan slip, tho.

>single-player content
Playing it solo is boring, but co-op was pretty baller. I never think of PvE content as solo or single-player.

Probably.

>2043
Shit, never realized it was that far off. Probably can't timeskip 200 fucking years.

Anyone that has art for a Shallyan Initiate/Priest? It seems none was ever produced. It's all priestesses, and art from non-warhammer sources are all invariably overly epic, prettyboy white wizards, or venerable old men.

I just want a 25-35ish white priest without too much magic or fancy shit. Is that too much to ask?

...

That's... actually pretty damn good, thanks! I would've hoped for colour, but it actually feels pretty damn Warhams and it hits just the right age and look. Goddamn, been looking for something for ages!

I do wish that they would have made the Necromancer themed army they had plans for back in the day.

Beyond the Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings? Tbh I thin I would've preferred necromancers over overt vampiric leaders, but was that ever considered?

>Kindly no End Times or Age of Sigmar. It's not the same universe.

End Times is part of WHFB canon.

Lexicanum:

>A period of time starting in 2519 and ending in 2528. This period marked a huge upheaval across the Warhammer World with every major civilization destroyed in a great Chaos Incursion led by Archaon.

whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/End_Times

It is not a different universe. It is not a retcon. It is a legitimate part of the storyline that should be considered part of the canon.

Find ONE thing in an OFFICIAL, CANONICAL SOURCE that says End Times is not part of Warhammer Fantasy. You won't, because you can't.

I'm declaring Storm of Chaos is not canon. It is a different universe, and not suitable for discussion here.

Its not Warhammer Fantasy Battle, its Warhammer End Times. Check the covers.

That being said the main point is fuck Age of Sigmar. Its just that the people who bring up ET tend to be AoSfags, hence their elimination. Also some autists try and interject it as the "true" canon when others discuss old lore to troll them with despite literally every edition of Warhammer saying "make up your own". So the ban is because people abused the right to talk about it.

Also
>Lexicanum
>That glorified 40k shitwank of a site
>laughinglahmians.png

I'm declaring that non-Chaos Dwarf wizards are still a thing.

6th edition armybook had rules for running a Necromancer only list.
Alessio even wrote an article on how to play different kinds of lists (bloodlines) as designer's note in the back of the armybook iirc.

>It's set right before SoC I think
No it does not. It is way before that time.

I can't say much for the rules, but as a setting, 6th Ed. really feels like it was the high point, and then it just got worse, culminating with 8th Ed.

Just report for breaking Global Rule #3 and ignore him. He's some kind of autist that gets off on ruining threads for others. There's an entire thread for Age of Smegmar fluff, yet he has to come here out of some semantic compulsion.

>bloodlines
So wait, was it a necromancer or a vampire army? Or was it just vampire counts, but running without any vampires?

You could take a necromancer lord and a vampire captain, use powers to make the vamp a combat focused as possible and you could fluff it as a subordinate vamp or a magical construct of some sort

>The way the gitzman map deviates from how it's supposed to be is one of my major gripes with it. Pic related.
Can you expound on this? How does the map differ from "reality"? Also, can you point out any other flaws with that map? I've always considered it A+ canon material, though I have no idea where it came from.

>So wait, was it a necromancer or a vampire army? Or was it just vampire counts, but running without any vampires?
Yeah, it was the Vampire Counts book with rules that enabled you to use the list without vampires at all.
What did you expect though?
What would a necromancer army have that a vampire counts army hasn't if the vampire counts list is built on undead and vampires are essentially necromancers themselves and also have necromancers in their armies?

>What did you expect though?
I wasn't sure what he was talking about. It could've been a concept that predated the vampires as a major faction, or a change from that format.

Am I the only one that doesn't like how the new Tzaangors are just basically bird people? Vague older fluff gave them tiger stripes or leopard spots, and I liked to imagine Knights Panther hunting them down for an easy source of fur trim.

It's like how the ghouls went from 'insane human' to 'fucked up mini-Strigoi that is far more animal than man.'

Scuttlings were nice though.

>It could've been a concept that predated the vampires as a major faction, or a change from that format.
Well the bloodlines hadn't been fleshed out as much before I think.
The book was pretty much a highpoint for Vampire Counts imo. Up until then I didn't have much appreciation for Vampires, the posterboys, i.e. von Carsteins, always felt a little too... 'pulpy' if that makes sense. They look like the Bela Lugosi B-movie archetype of vampire.
It wasn't until a little later, when I read the Bretonnia armybook that I kind of liked the idea of Blood Dragons. You know, the fallen Paladin type of thing.
These days my favorite Vampire are Necrarchs though. The Max Schreck/Nosferatu kind of vampire is the most unsettling version of the creature to me and I love the film.
Though the Strigoi are also pretty interesting from a folklore pov, but I didn't know much about it back then.

There was a Heinrich Kemmler armylist in a WD. In addition to skeletons and stuff it had cairn kings that related to Nehekharans, animated statues and ghost regiments.

They look kinda weird to me, but they do seem creative.

>Am I the only one that doesn't like how the new Tzaangors are just basically bird people? Vague older fluff gave them tiger stripes or leopard spots
There is literally nothing stopping you from painting them that way.
If you don't like the heads I'm sure you can kitbash something else too.
Or just buy different beastmen. GW isn't the only company that sells some. You could have boarbestment and god knows what else too. Reaper have loads of lycanthropes you could use and alkemy has an entire faction of it's game consisting of giant cats.

I didn't know that.
I always felt a special connection to Heinrich Kemmler. He looks like Rob Zombie in WHFB and we share a name.

Do you happen to know which WD this would be? Or a scan? Sounds kickass

I absolutely consider it an amazing map, and I treat it largely as canonical myself, and my gaming group usually use no other for "OOC" use (which is probably a mistake, because it devalues cartography and unreliable narration). But it's not without flaws.

Because almost every map differs from eachoter in minor and/or major ways, the entire map in itself is a "headcanon" project in what "makes sense". This is simply necessary, because when one map places, let's say Untergard in one place, another map may have placed it slightly differently. But in regards to Gitzmans map, only one can be true. And this is true for many, many maps.

There's also things that appears on some maps, but not in others, stretching possibly hundreds of years at it's source.

In the case of the Chaos Dwarfs, look at the map I posted and compare to Gitzman's. A fair amount of important feeling and detail is lost. There's also a road straight from Karaz Kadrin to the Plains of Zharr, seemingly out of nowhere and through what should be a sheer cliff downward (the plains of Zharr is basically in a giant valley surrounded by rockface).

There's also no way to get any feel for the Darklands, and the road straight from Zharr-Naggrund to the Tower of Gorgoth is missing, even that goes straight through the real entrance to the Plains of Zharr, the Gates of Zharr, which is presumably where the long tunnel into the plains start.

It's not major, and I still love the map, but some stuff like that annoys me. I wonder how he made the whole thing. I wouldn't mind creating one myself or create a homebrewed expansion of it, because everything outside The Empire is so empty in detail.

It's also a little bit annoying that it doesn't come across just how forested the Empire is, because every 5 feet there's a cottage. Theses are small-ass villages in a sea of trees. But there's no indication of size.

The Strigoi are also inspired from the stories of H.P. Lovecraft such as the Outsider.

I think it was around after the 6'th edition Wood Elves army book release.

Apparently it was featured in White Dwarf issues 309-311.

Assuming you're German, isn't the naming of stuff fucking hilarious? I'm Swedish that knows a bit of German and I already find myself giggling at the silly, sometimes.

Man, that sounds awesome. Necromancy should've been more of a big bad, instead of chaos, chaos, chaos. In the end, even necromancy was Chaos, because everything bad is Dhar.

I rather liked the classic pulpy von Carstein. I hated what they did with their aesthetic in the 7'th edition and basically turned the VC army book into the Carstein army book. Then it didn't get much better in the 8'th edition.

>Assuming you're German, isn't the naming of stuff fucking hilarious?
Yes. In general it's okay, usually just a little off, but as a matter of fact I noticed they changed a few names the German translations because they were too obvious.

Black Gobbo featured an article that had conversions of the - then new - empire general kit.
One of the characters was named 'von Essiggurke' which would translate as 'from the pickled cucumber'. In the German version he was called Grünstein Greenstone, I think.

Yeah, I didn't like the new designs either. It's just that I'm not a big fan of those particular horror films, I really enjoyed Nosferatu when I watched it though. Probably the reason for my bias towards the Necrarch.

Undead were reanimated with the winds of magic long before Nagash was even born. He was just the first one to turn it into a magical art that didn't rely on gods.

Well, it was easy for me to like the pulpy Dracula look. I have been a fan of it since I was a kid. The revision just didn't even look close to it and it was a huge turnoff for me. I thought the old bloodlines were great because there was something for everybody. Kinda how there were 5 major themes you could run with Chaos.

>The revision just didn't even look close to it and it was a huge turnoff for me. I thought the old bloodlines were great because there was something for everybody.
Yeah, it was the same for me.
I liked the aristocratic von Carstein look too, because they were an original archetype. The monster clad in silk and velvet.
Making them bald vaguely bestial looking monsters diluted their flavor and took away from Strigoi and Necrarch who were the ones defined by being outwardly more noticeable inhuman.

I know, but that's a function of the fluff, obvioualy. It didn't need to be that way. I would've preferred it if undeads were opposed to chaos in much the same way necrons are in 40k, honestly. Something about the dead not feeding the warp or being emotionless or something. Maybe even have undeads tied to the (mostly unknown) gods of order, maybe have much of Nehekara worship them and being turned to undeads because of muh order way back when.

I actually liked that the only real terrible looming threat with the undead was the return of Nagash and everyone else who was undead just minded their own business. It always seemed more credibile to me.

Read Liber Necris, the undead are opposed to Chaos, Vampires souls are bound away safe from Chaos but have to feed on dark magic to do it.

Nagashs aim was to close the warp gates and create world of quiet death and immortality.

When you say old, you say that in relation to what? I've only ever known the bloodlines of the Carsteins, the Lahmians, the Strigoi, the Blood Dragons, and the Necrarchs, with hints of other bloodlines, unknown, elsewhere outside of The Old World (such as Araby/Nehekara/Cathay, etc.)

Yeah, me too.

I know Nagash opposed Chaos, but much of it was also a function of Chaos. Would've been interesting to see it more naturally opposed, especially on a metaphysical level. Now it's more like that Chaos God that works against Chaos, or Be'lakor trying to usurp power from Chaos. It's just not the same.

That said, I should check out Liber Necris, yeah.

Should've stuck to the vampires and the undead being cthonic horror as a counterpart to the visceral evil of chaos.

Out of curiosity, can anyone tell me what sort of trade occurs on the road of skulls and the pass to the east?

Metal, slaves, stupid hats etc.
Chaos dwarf stuff.

Part of the Warhammer Silk Road I think.

>White Dwarf issues 309-311.
I have all of those issues as pdf, the 309 is a pretty ugly word scan though.
If I had a better version I'd make a pdf of the Return of the Licheking campaign.

The Outsider is a very gothic horror inspired story in general.

Cool. I found all of those WD in my home. No scanner, though. Apparently they also reference a pdf of 6'th edition rules for Krell which I don't possess.

>Valten probably ended up living out life as a humble blacksmith in some rural backwater.

Weeeell, you have to remember that the setting never really continued much past 2422 and the end of Storm of Chaos, aside from a few scenarios. Even the End Times retcon started in 2424, if memory serves.

This is part of what makes me so angry about GW squandering and ignoring an interesting setting. Post-Storm of Chaos had all potential in the world to have something interesting done with it, with hundreds of possible scenarios or "What if...?" outcomes. It could've even been the basis of different timelines that turns out differently from eachother.

So I doubt that Valten, if he "truly" was Sigmar reborn, would just go to some backwater and live out his life as a humble smith, even if that's what he would've wanted.

I have no doubt that he either disappeared voluntarily, or was killed by Volkmar or even the Emperor, to prevent a rift. Either way, it's a tragic point that was unfortunately squandered and wasted when nothing was done with it.

There was even the promise that Sigmar (i.e. Valten) would return when the Empire needed him the most, suggesting (to me) that Luthor Huss, even though he likely believes this sincerely, in a religious sense, knew that Valten was alive (if indeed he is).

Frankly I'd rather have the poor quality scan than none. Care to upload it?

>Maybe even have undeads tied to the (mostly unknown) gods of order, maybe have much of Nehekara worship them and being turned to undeads because of muh order way back when.
Is this possible? Can the Undead worship or be involved in the cults of the Gods of Order?

>No scanner, though.
If you take a picture with halfway decent light no obvious shadows or glare on the page I can work with that.
>Apparently they also reference a pdf of 6'th edition rules for Krell which I don't possess.
Are you referring to the mention of the homepage in #311? Cause his rules are also in #309.

Doubt it. Too north for the silk road.
The silk road goes through the southern part of the border princes.

This Armour and weapons for the Tribes, slaves for the furnaces, probably some looted goods traded between nomads and Chaos Dwarves

Probably not much raw metals or coal because those are a bitch to transport massive distance

Forgot to mention I just need the ones from #309 to make a nice version of the thing.

>Still playing WHFB
>In this current year
>Not playing Frostgrave

What edition of WHFRP should I play?

All of the bloodlines except von Carstein didn't exist until the 5'th edition and was also a thing in the 6'th edition army book. Then the focus was back to Carstein for the 7'th and 8'th edition with the other bloodlines being deligated to sideshow units. The Necrarch bloodline precense was pretty much made non exsisting in the 8'th edition fluff to highlight Mannfred as the magic using progidy vampire.

I think the worst thing they did with Vampire Counts was deciding that they needed a unifying aesthetics by sticking batwings on all the armour.

The Warhammer "Silk Road" is far, far more south, called the Silver Road, eventually splitting into the Spice Route and the Ivory Road in the Darklands.

When it comes to the north and The Skull Road and the northern pass to the east, next to nothing is known, as far as I'm aware. I guess it could be used by the chaos dwarfs, who has Uzkulak, Place of the Skull, up there, but at the same time, The High Pass being open from Kislev straight to the Chaos Dwarfs, seem somewhat unlikely, with nothing but the abandoned hold of Karak Vlag nearby.

Most likely it's used primarily by the Norscans, Kurgan, and the Chaos Dwarfs, in their various dealings. Maybe a form of "Silk Road" for the North, because Chaos Dwarf shit is really valuable, and the Chaos Dwarfs make all the cool shit for Chaos.

>not playing both
>implying frostgrave is the same as WHFB or even comparable to Mordheim
I mean I love the game, but did you even read it? It's a different kind of animal altogether.

The pitch of 'Mordheim 2.0' just resulted in a bunch of irrationally angry GW fanatics shitting on the game out of spite every time it is mentioned.

1st if you like a bit of old fashioned roleplaying

2nd if you like it a bit tighter and streamlined

3rd if your a fucking casual twat who sucks donkey cock

Sorry, I left my house now and I wont be home for hours. I guess I could take some photos tomorrow if you're still around.

The Warhammer Fantasy Wikia article on the Darklands seem to agree:

>Uzkulak - Uzkulak, the Place of the Skull, is the northernmost stronghold in the Chaos Dwarf empire, which sits at the opening of the tunnel beneath Zorn Uzkul that connects the River Ruin to the Sea of Chaos. As a port to the north, Uzkulak is a central location for the gathering of the Chaos Dwarf fleet when they ply the seas for slaves. Its proximity to The High Pass and the Road of Skulls also makes it a convenient stronghold for forces raiding into Kislev.

It's not sourced, though.

Yeah I'm a regular.
Just drop the pages from #309 here tomorrow and I'll make a pdf out of the campaign for everyone.

In the end every dark faction rather prefers that the "good guys" win than a fellow dark powers.

What make Frostgrave so different to Mordheim?
Legitimate question, I don't know much about Frostgrave though have been eyeing it

Bad troll, we Skubgrave fans are not such obvious dicks.

It's a good game, but I would still want something more mordheimy, with soldiers being something more than expendable tokens.

It suits the mage theme, still basic game has little for it.

>current year
>someone still using this argument

2/10, I responded.

>mfw I am OP
>mfw I've never played WHFB in my life
>mfw I don't even care about wargaming or figure modeling

Mordheim has you collect XP and quirks for your entire warband.
Each guy is an asset and each death is a setback.

In Frostgrave the Wizard use some disposable thugs to further their goals.
So consequently only the Wizard levels up, he's basically your PC and the rest of the warband is disposable. Make no mechanical difference to pay for upkeep or buy a new thug.
So sacrificing a few cheap units like warhounds to slow your opponent down is a viable tactic.

Unlike Mordheim it also does not feature different rules for different races.
By now with the expansions you can theoretically field a warband of gnolls or barbarians using the official miniature too, but they'll use the exact same stats.
So there is no distinction between elves, dwarves or lizardmen if you want to use them for your warband.
The upside to that is that you can use literally anything at all. Any miniature you like.
Some people seem to see that as a back draw though.

RPG fan?

Mah man

>He was just the first one to turn it into a magical art that didn't rely on gods.
How comes divine magic is so rare any more?

Yeah. They can do Chaos afterall.

I'm not playing anything but TWW.

I'm finishing my armies.

These seem to be good proxies.

kickstarter.com/projects/maggletminis/magglet-dwarves-miniatures

>or was killed by Volkmar
I only heard vaguely about what happened to Volkmar which was "climbed down from the standard and joined the Empire again" which I called bullshit on that. That guy was given life literally by Chaos energy. Similar to guys like Valnir and Mordrek.
Then I thought what IF this was some kind strategy bf Bel'akor to have a Chaos Angent in the position as the Pontifex Maximus, which already brought a Schism upon the Empire.
Of course I never thought of GW being smart enough to have this in mind, like so many WHAT IFs.

Ah, ok, I see.

I think it depends on where the winds of magic flow. Nagash also kind screwed up the winds of magic in Nehekhara when he made the Black Pyramid that attracts the winds of Shyish which diverted the other winds. This seems to be part of the reason that the Nehekharan gods weakend.