Song of Swords - The Salt Must Flow

Last time on Song of Swords:
Anons seeing red and going all-in on arguing about Red-Red All-in
Electric Elf power saws on a stick and lore goodies about the Void
Anons release first version of a rehauled rulebook


Song of Swords is a a tabletop RPG centered around realistic medieval fightan' with a ludicrous variety of weapons and fighting styles, centered around a dice pool system. It's currently in beta, and can be used for both fantasy and historical games.

Call of the Void: Ballad of the Laser Whales is a pulpy sci-fi tabletop RPG about fighting space-nazis and hunting giant whales with harpoons made out of the moon. Its combat system is more modern, based in the early 20th century, but can probably handle combat up to the present day.

MEGA folder containing current version of the game and all supplementary materials. At this time the latest version is v1.9.9:
mega.nz/#F!S89jTT7J!ozFi9GvzaFGHfBa59Ik2-Q

Here's a wiki detailing SoS's fantasy setting, getting filled up bit by bit as Jimmy reveals more details:
tattered-realms.wikia.com/wiki/Tattered_Realms_Wik

We also have a Discord now, at discord.gg/zzTq7Xw
Come join us if you wanna ask a question or have a friendly fecht, or shitpost at Jimmy in real-time

Other urls found in this thread:

github.com/progamanon/latexed-SOS
pad.riseup.net/p/Song-of-Swords
youtube.com/watch?v=pnXD_qlrzS8
youtu.be/3F77CBGVH1g
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

As posted in the last thread:
Due to a level of discontent with regards to the quality of the rulebook, I and another user undertook the task of rehauling the layout of the PDF and typesetting it in LaTeX. This has allowed us to easily make every reference to a certain mechanic, maneuver, talent or similar element actually be clickable and link to the element in question. No more Ctrl+F to find out what the "Coup de Grace" maneuver does when figuring out how bad a Weak Spot is, simply clicking the text should take you right to it.

Currently, a lot of these hotlinks are missing, but they'll be added within too long, the delay mostly being real life obligations.

Updated versions along with source code can be found on github.com/progamanon/latexed-SOS

You can also help us out big time by leaving comments on pad.riseup.net/p/Song-of-Swords
It doesn't have to be technical, style preferences or questions as to what is possible or even just words of encouragement (or discouragement since I subsist entirely on a diet of self-loathing) are greatly appreciated and requested


Did you mean, with the box, actual lines or simply a color for the whole row? The former is frowned upon due to making the table as a whole less legible and sort of ugly, but the latter might be a good idea, though I personally think it looks cleaner simply coloring the font.

I'm submitting some ways it could look, pic related.

As for the font of the numbers, I agree with regards to tables, I simply wasn't sure why the text figures/oldstyle numerals were there in the first place, as they came with the template I shamelessly stole (and of which there is little trace apart from the header/footer due to my customization).

I figured it out though, and have made it so all tables use lining figures, while retaining text figures for body text.

Coloring the whole row (the first example in the image you posted) looks much better and is easier to identify while being easy to read.

This may simply be a disagreement of aesthetics, but I don't see how the first table is better in any sense.

It's eye-catching, sure, but the other word for that, when you're not looking for it, is "distracting".

It creates a similar aesthetic to boxing the whole thing in, except now it's just one row instead of the whole table, making it look ugly.

Additionally, consider the usual process of using the tables:

0: From the Hit Locations, you click onto the location in question.
1: You want to find the relevant table for your damage type as the first thing you do, as you can't do anything before having a table. Thus, you want this information to be the first thing that is spotted when glancing over the tables.
A red row competes for attention, but that could be okay if it's important, but let's move on:
2: Find the level of the wound
Here, you scan the left side of the table and then move to the right, identifying the values in question, which you'll quickly know is "Go to Graveyard. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200" when the colored font, or colored box, shows.

The red box allows you to complete 2. faster, but when you've only got the five identical elements (Level [0-5]), just about any out-standing attribute will, well, stand out. The red box seems like it's less aesthetic and less functional.

Yes, it's more eye-catching, but you don't want it to catch your eye more than the more important elements. It feels cluttered.

I'd like to hear your arguments regardless, though, since I'm not entirely opposed to using the colored row. The bright-red text is a bit gaudy, and the dark red is too subtle to be quickly scanned, so I'd change the color at least, even if I didn't go with the box, but you may have a better idea entirely.

I disagree entirely.

You usually know the level of the wound before looking at the table; it's simple math. Since all tables follow the same structure (5 rows with the numbers in ascending order), finding the wound level is very easy even if there are "distracting elements" such as a red box (which I disagree on how it can be distracting, but let's say it is because clearly other people do) since all you have to do is look at the number.

Furthermore, the red box is very good at indicating that the target is dead, meaning less time is lost reading the rest of the table. It's also a good way of noticing lethal wounds when quickly scanning the damage pdf without using any hotlinks; it's something I've done as a GM.

I don't agree on how it feels cluttered.
I don't agree on how it makes it look ugly.

>>You usually know the level of the wound before looking at the table; it's simple math. Since all tables follow the same structure (5 rows with the numbers in ascending order), finding the wound level is very easy even if there are "distracting elements" such as a red box (which I disagree on how it can be distracting, but let's say it is because clearly other people do) since all you have to do is look at the number.
That's my entire point, there is absolutely no reason you'd need to find the red box as the first thing.
First, you find out which table to use. I.e., you find the table (Cutting, Piercing, Bludgeoning, Unarmed) that you need.
Once you've found that, you only have 5 lines to look at.
Once you see either the red box or red text, you'll know he's dead. Either will show you equally fast, because you're already looking at the wound level.

It doesn't really help you find the proper wound level either, honestly, because you already know it's gonna be the bottom-most one of the type you're looking at, if it's level 5, so it's not helpful there either.

I simply can't see the reason this is helpful. And if it's not helpful, but does require mental space to parse, it's the definition of clutter.

Whether or not it's ugly is up for debate, and it's the argument I'm most willing to concede if it's down to aesthetics, but I find nonfunctional formatting ugly as well, and my arguments for its ugliness are based on that.

I am sorry but I simply can't see the reasoning in your argument in favor of a red row color. I definitely appreciate your earlier mentioning that there should be some highlighting of a "Dead" result, though, because that is something we agree on.

My argument is that I don't think that is distracting enough to be a hassle, nor that it is "non-functional". It's also prettier, but you clearly disagree with that.

I vastly prefer it over colored font, so if it is released like that I'll just change it manually when using it myself.

Am additional voice here. I would also prefer the red boxes, as they serve as a very quick visual guide to determine what it or is not lethal. Not all Level 5s are red and having the lethal ones marked out would significantly help with readability by indicating which wounds need to even be read in the first place. A red box is both more quickly identifiable and less eye searingly ugly than red text.

No idea if this Unicode displays, but 5 could work.

So, skull Unicode doesn't show (at least for me), but a symbol of some kind would be less intrusive than a red box, right?

It'd be less intrusive yes, I'm not sure if it would be better.

The first is definitely better. The block of red makes it much easier to identify that a line says Dead than simply having the text colored red. Even as it is in that image it is the superior option.

I'm not sure it'd be better either, but it's an option.

I think highlighting Auto-KO, limb loss and stuff like that is also something to consider, so take my ideas with a pinch of salt.

>That's my entire point, there is absolutely no reason you'd need to find the red box as the first thing.
Yes there is. When you're scanning the tables looking for what damage & zone combinations result in instant death, the red box makes it instantly clear where those are. You can't miss it and the text within is still easily readable. This is important for players and GMs who want to know where they could inflict instant death, so they can preplan where they want to launch their attacks and place their armor. Especially when making mook NPCs a GM may want to leave those areas open. The red box makes it easy to find those zone and damage type combinations. As a side note, a whole box should still be easily detectable by colorblind people, while just red text probably wouldn't be.

Under the current rules, a musket should have about the same AP as a Ballad pistol, right? Lower velocity means low penetration but a big ball means it hurts when it hits.

Repost-tan.

They've got different armors to go through.

>My argument is that I don't think that is distracting enough to be a hassle, nor that it is "non-functional".
That's a claim, not an argument. Claims are backed by arguments.
If it is distracting, no matter how little, without providing useful function, it's an unwarranted hassle, by definition.

My point was that it wouldn't actually be at all quicker in the normal use case. Please be specific as to how you think it'd be useful.

Thank you, this makes sense and I'll use red highlights for the release version.

I presented a situation in which one would have already chosen a hit location, and then use the wound tables to see the result, whereas you are arguing one would use them to inform the decision of which zone to hit in the first place.

I find this use case kinda silly, since it would always be easier to simply use the search function of one's PDF viewer (unless it's in print, of course, but what're the odds of that?), but it is nonetheless a valid argument, since my way of doing things shouldn't be the only viable one, and so I'll accept your reasoning and revise the document.

The color-blind thing I can't say I'm really convinced about, since I don't know how the red box would affect them versus the dark red text. The dark red text should still be visible after all, but it's a moot point I suppose.

I refuse to put those highlights in my own personal version though because I think they look retarded, but I won't make the mistake of assuming I know better than you, what you want, so the GitHub version will have the red highlights

The new PDF with fixed prosthetics, throwing weapons and added red row colors can be found at github.com/progamanon/latexed-SOS

I don't know if I should also upload these things to the thread. If requested, I will, though, I just don't like cluttering up the thread

>I don't know if I should also upload these things to the thread. If requested, I will, though, I just don't like cluttering up the thread
Dude, you're doing work that directly makes peoples lives easier to play this game. Clutter away, I say.

>If it is distracting, no matter how little, without providing useful function, it's an unwarranted hassle, by definition.
It's as distracting as the red font. It looks better too.

What about a red underline? Is that possible?

>I made all these tools to make SoS players' lives better but I don't know if I should upload them to the one place SoS players gather

>If requested, I will, though, I just don't like cluttering up the thread
you really are obsessed with clutter, huh?

Thing is, it's far from being done.
I've been reeeeeally lazy with this
It would be fairly easy yeah. Dotted underline, full underline, bunch of fancy loop de loops, any of those would take minutes to implement, but I don't know if that would actually satisfy anyone, since it'd both have that pig-disgusting boxing-in look, as well as not being as immediately obvious as a normal redbox.
If you want it for personal reasons I'd be happy to set it up for you as a personal version though, it's pretty fast to make.

If it's as distracting as the red font, it means it's as present in your mind's eye as the red box, which it'd have to be as eye-catching and easily visible as the red box, which is the opposite of what you said.
Don't be disingenuous. I changed it already anyway, so there's no reason to worry about it. Anyone who shares my opinion could simply get my version, if they felt it would be nice.
I'm still triggered about my university lab not enforcing checklists for equipment, so I have to run around getting beakers and other shit and no one knows where things are or whether you have them beforehand. Also everyone takes each other's equipment because they forgot to check if they had their own.
I have pretty bad ADHD so clutter fucks me up right bad. I end up like a deer in headlights if I'm supposed to do something orderly but I can't enforce my own order upon it. Can't adjust to others' order.

Well it's in the GitHub, after all.

Also I only made the PDF here, I haven't been in /sosg/ regularly longer than maybe September.

>I have pretty bad ADHD
Oh, that's what it is then.

Who exactly is he replying to? Who thinks pike phalanxes were murder bulldozers?

Yeah, every shrink I've been to has asked leading questions about autism too, so you wouldn't be the first to suspect it.

Then again, what kind of person plays SoS and isn't autistic?

Anyone who plays or makes Total War, they are rape machines in that franchise.

That's why I play Europa Barbarorum.

yeah srsly it's not like Alexander carved out his empire with them or that they dominated late medieval and early renaissance warfare or anything.

...wait.

Yeah, it's not like FIlippos II raised the the number of cavalry that was used to bash phalanx fixed enemies.

No wait, he did. Alexander didn't conquer everything with JUST phalanxes. It was only one part of his army, which had stuff like the silver shields and cavalry as well.

I forgot to mention, I'm looking to put in the new rules for Blood Magic, Unkindlies and Star Vampires since I know they're "canon", but are there other rule supplements you'd like to see in the rulebook?

>It was only one part of his army

let's be honest though, it was the backbone of that army and that it had units in support of it didn't really change that. even in total war games you have to protect pike blocks from things like enemy ranged attack. they're still absolute rape trains.

Is there an updated table for this or is there any use in putting more than 4 PCP into magic at the moment?

Besides SoS, my favorite RPG is DnD 4th

I've been wondering what a hybrid of the two would be like

Your thoughts?

This rape train argument comes from what? Jingo already did his chair general thing and showed a few examples where they aren't and are more likely the support unit for cavalry and other damage dealers. What are your examples of phalanxes being the rape trains that total war shows them to be?

Powers like in 4e that draw from a pool of dice?

I've caught wind that the price of magic is being jacked way up.

Not to mention a variety of specialized light and heavy units. From the multirole skirmisher hypastists to Greek hoplites to plug gaps in the phalanx.

Good. It looks way too cheap right now.

The manoeuvre list on page 215 is... Unformatted? Looks like it should be a table but it isn't.

The case is that they were the backbone of the army because they were so good at fixing enemy units in place and allowing cavalry to outflank them. When used without a combined-arms force they couldn't decisively steamroll the enemy unless they were a bunch of unarmored tribesmen with paper shields.

Surprisingly astute observation from Drunkie Rome.

What other RPGs do SoS fans enjoy?

My favorites are SoS, Ballad, RuneQuest 6, and Savage Worlds. I also have a soft spot for Traveller and the FFG Star Wars system.

I know Jimmy and his guys were 3aboos during the edition wars and then played pathfinder.

I mean, that's basically just maneuvers...

Sauce of OP?

I don't think such a hybridization is possible... The games work too differently.

Someone basically converted TROS to D&D. I forget what it's called though.

God's Blood, maybe?

Can someone link me the modified skills pdf? I remember it having things like improv and specialties.

This one?

Codex Martialis. It's basically a poor man's RoS for when you can't convince your friends to switch from 3.x. Fighters get a dice pool equal to their attack bonus.

Ah, no. It was the one that allowed up to 15 dice per skill roll, anything over became BS. Specialties gave bonus dice to the skill, etc.

How about this one?

Danke. That's the one.

So why has a game that's just a revised edition of another game taken so long to finish?

I think it's because their Australian editor is Carmen Sandiego, who hid the finished book somewhere in the world and the rest of the team is globetrotting and answering geography questions to find it.

The editing and formatting cycle has taken a gorillion years. Jimmy's getting to the suicidal phase about it, you can tell. He's probably going to blow his brains out one of these days and we'll never hear the rest of it.

I think Misato is best girl. God disagrees, so he has struck my every endeavor with misfortune because he's a fucking reifag. My destiny now is to watch years of work come undone because my coworkers lack my desperation.

GURPS, BoB, FATAL

Not gonna lie. I miss FATAL Fecht Friday

I was always fond of Hikari myself.

youtube.com/watch?v=pnXD_qlrzS8

Holy fuck this guy's voice sounds exactly like mine.

Legion fags BTFO, confirming what everyone knows: it's pronounced Caesar, not Kaiser

Whoops, yeah I see that. Embarrassing.

I'm not actually sure how to generate the table other than manually add each entry (I could make an index, but that would be very dissimilar to the way it's done in the original rulebook, and this is supposed to be mostly similar to the old stuff)

Give me an hour to get some dinner and I'll upload a table list based on the entries from the original book, but I don't really want to manually check if every maneuver is represented, so I'll need to find a clever way to do that even if it takes longer than just doing it manually

Why so pessimistic?

The only reason your kind is allowed to live is because your shit girl let Best Girl play her Dreamcast.

Well if you're willing to learn a horrific abortion of a game and run it, you too can revive the dream.

>Implying that God doesn't lust after Shinji's pert boipucci

Out of curiosity, what's the current editing method used by Opaque? I ask because the fan-PDF got made pretty fast and has some neat functionality, by one autist with too much free time, so what's been going on over at the professional end?

Fuck your shitfus, post light bombers!

Hey fuck you buddy, Best girl is always relevant.
Jimmy help, Emily turned into a degenerate in D2 and I don't know what to do.

Timber Terror reporting in. Mosquito FB Mk XVIII is best Mosquito since it has an autoloading 57mm anti-tank gun. Drink those delicious Kriegsmarine tears.

I blame Herge for my Mosquito fetish.

>I blame Herge for my Mosquito fetish.

Count your blessings, user, it could have been far, far worse.

Did people seriously have FATAL Fechts?

Yep, it's like watching horror movie on friday

So what's the state of gay people in Ballad? Are they ridiculously repressed like they were in meatspace '40s? Did Charon completely eliminate those faggots with the pink triangles? Please say yes.

>Charon

I meant Chiron.

Yeah, usually in these threads.

I haven't seen FATAL fechts here or perhaps my mind slipped into merciful oblivion upon witnessing the horrors.

Didn't Rhade used to run them in /SoS/?

For you.

I've been gone a while. Did Jimmy ever deliver anything?

Lore and videos
youtu.be/3F77CBGVH1g

On other hand latexfag has been formatting core book

Everything is legal in Rahoo if you have a big enough gun.

RIP thread.

Alright Jimmy, time for some hard questions. Which nations in the Tattered realms are the most minerally rich? Where does all the metal come from, and how does the import and export of the crucial iron and possibly even steel affect the political power of the nations who dig those delicious hematite nuggets out of the ground? If it helps, you can focus on how the fuck Dace, a country built on a bigass pile of salt can outfit a military without letting another sovereignty have an economic strangehold on their military. Who armed them in the first place?

I thought Dace was build upon a huge mining complex that was build upon their ancestors bones.

The orr bitches only wanted that glowing eye junk that made them live forever, so when Dace was formed, they had mines full of minerals, salt and a ripe population full of hardworking miners to quickly push the product out.

Dace's "military" are largely mercenaries, and have acted as such for many other state entities. I remember Jimmy saying new laws had to be instated because Dace was running into problems with the bulk of its soldiers out of the country on contract.

Dace armed itself.
Economic strangehold of the military isn't the problem, but of the entire nation.
They import almost all of their food, and most of that from their immediate neighbors.

This is why they're trying so hard to settle the Steppe.

Dace were iron rich enough to use it as currency.

>Lore
Is he drinking again?

Reminder that God, whose dream defines reality, is intrinsically right about everything.

Reminder that God cannot hold an objective state towards humanity as to do so would violate humanities free will to self determine.

Even though that seems like it should make sense, it's not actually true. In fact, it's untrue in at least two unrelated ways. Self-determination and pre-destination only appear contradictory due to such illusions as time and causality. What's more, you forget that we are made in God's image, the free will that humans exhibit is in fact a part of God's will anyway.

Polytheist detected.

>relatively basic Christian theology
>polytheism
Okay Abdul.

On Homosexuality:

The Sahaquielist religion sharply disapproves, the Genosian religion marginally disapproves, for different reasons. The former have a firm belief in what they call "The Ultimate Truth," which is the idea that every person has their place in the hierarchy of the divine nation, and that only by subordinating themselves to that role can they ever truly be happy and fulfilled. Homosexuals are believed to be a violation of this system, men who shirk their role in society, which results in their sexuality being "unnatural." The Ximbri will often point to the Zells (who, in their ship-bound state do not generally manifest any sexual deviance at all) as proof of this principle. One of the reasons why Zells are tolerated.

The Genosians just don't like anything that isn't producing babbies, but they don't really persecute it. The UC has gradually widened this cultural ambivalence to tacit acceptance in the interests of harmony (also to decrease the likelihood of lasting peace with Chiron) and while the queers might not be a polite topic in any Genosian country, they aren't actively persecuted just about anywhere except some Puritan regions in Desotia and the RoR.

The Rahoos obviously run the gamut here as they do anything else. The Magistrate of Bazzack (one of the largest manufacturing sectors in the chain) is openly homosexual, but homosexuals are still stoned to death in Holy Author--one of their largest trading partners.

As a result, particularly of persecution in Chiron and their client-states, homosexuals tend to be tolerated among Pirate and Outlaw groups in the Void, simply because so many of them flee the "therapy" (Mike Pencification) or execution that awaits them in their homeland (depending on who catches them) for the freedom of the stars. As usual, the only place that is truly free is the sky.

Others have answered this one bretty well, I'll give an official answer.

The most mineral rich nations in terms of raw deposits are Svitgard, Osterbija, parts of the Kaselreich and Dace. Lagoria used to have some of the most colossal gold mines in the world, but these ran dry centuries ago.

Dace's chief mineral resources are iron, copper, and silver. They have no problem arming themselves--the chief problem they face is convincing people to buy iron, which is what they have the most of. For years they have been trying to develop an industry in steel goods, but the expertise simply wasn't there until very recently. Cheap, simple axes and shovels produced in Dace can be found just about anywhere on the continent, though. And just recently, Taphonomy Bay has finished the construction of an enormous cannon foundry, determined to prove that Steel is TOO a viable metal for cannons, and cheaper than bronze. Very mediocre standardized handgonnes have also been produced in Dace for several years by the Racoco Factory.

Most gold these days is procured by Jenoesa, who suspect that there are great mines deeper into the Tujanci lands, but cannot get at them just yet.

Tin is produced mostly in the Slivers and in Osterbija.

Man, Dace is a fucking confusing geographical mess in my head right now. It's a salt flat type area, with a corpse filled bay that also has rich mineral deposits and is situated next to a steppe region that they're trying to colonise for arable land.