So I bought a collection of the original Conan stories and I'd like to discuss how... well... problematic they were. It's kind of disturbing when you realise that so much of table top fantasy relies on it as a foundation to build upon. It's quite a shock and a lot to unpack. A lot of very gross tropes at play in many of Howard's work.
Also this isn't /pol/ take your right wing garbage to your containment border kthnxbai
I read it for the same reason i read blacklibrary.
In between heavy reading i enjoy the action packed sword swinging prowess, the straight forward dialogue, easy-reading writing and simple to grasp themes.
Its fun.
It was a work of its time, presenting a fictional world based on historical cultures of ours that have nothing to do with our modern moral standards.
>gross
If scantily clad woman and murdering monstermen is gross then, sir, you and i live in vastly different worlds
Assessing the works of the past by modern moral standards is dumb.
Be aware of the difference, but appreciate them for what they are. I say this as a full on lefty liberal. I'll happily read the works of Lovecraft or Howard because I'm able to take them in the context of the time they were written.
They were written in, what, 20s? 30s? Obviously they're not written by someone with modern sensibilities.
It's more the implicit racism, IMO.
Although the annoyingly common moral puritans in progressive clothing would probably complain about the amount of sexual expression too.
...
2/10. Not even trolled.
All those cultures and maps are awesome.
I built a whole campiagn set in not-hyperborea
Seriously?
You truly are a gentle soul.
Another lefty liberal here. I can also enjoy, say, the Iliad or the Epic of Gilgamesh just fine despite all their "problematic" content. I am also not terribly fond of describing diction as problematic. There can be legitimate issues with fiction, "it's just fiction" isn't any kind of a universal jsutification for anything, but people in stories acting unlike people in modern western countries is not in itself problematic.
You are problematic
Problematic in general is a badly abused term. People often use it as a buzzword to claim something has issues without ever needing to explain themselves or go into why. It's much better to explain what you see as a problem.
4/10 bait, got me to respond
...
Yup.
Though niggers are gonna nog and its not so bad considdring most of mankind has always been pretty racist anyway. So what.
Huh?
I wish there was a dummies version of the illiad.
Its so hard to read. Goddamnitt, i wasnt born in the 8th century bc, what the fuck
What you see as racism in Conan is triggering to you. The world is a harsh place user. You need to have people review what books you read for you so that your safe place can be maintained.
After you mature a bit we may have a talk about who won the last US election.
Piss off you pearl-clutching shyster.
Racism is not some ultimate cardinal sin, especially retroactively in time periods where it was the unchallenged norm.
Dead people should not be ceremonially exhumed and tried in absentia; go perform your gay little cadaver synod elsewhere.
Take your socjus to /pol/ user.
"problematic" is a good thing.
...Except it isn't? I honestly don't have a problem with it, I agree with and I wasn't saying it affected me personally, just pointing out that the racist content is probably more likely to put people off than the sexuality at play, aside from the aforementioned annoying as fuck social puritans pretending to be progressive.
Can you please specifically point out what you find "problematic" and explain why? In detail please. Lots of page numbers.
This please, I need it for "research."
Go false flag somewhere else you fucking /pol/ nazicuck.
Conan's dialogue on the nature of corruption and soft civilizations touched a nerve eh?
bait or not, you should neck yourself
This isn't /lgbt/ either, don't be a faggot.
Howard really knew some history, as pulpy as his world is.
You need to go back.
>hai guise let me tell you how gross and creepy it is
>inb4 disagreement you are nazis
How about you gtfo to tumblr or whichever pit you came from, faggot.
Y'know, the thread was actually pretty civil before people started assuming OP was trying to start an argument. And even if they were, your responses are exactly what they were fishing for.
Nice bait OP, this meme's 4u.
May the mods ban you sooner rather than later.
>doesn't like creamy tits and killing niggers and evil ayrabs while being a mighty-thewed proto-Aryan
Faggotry t b h
I cannot recall any racism or such in Conan. Sexism, maybe? There was one story (Frost Giant's Daughter I think) where Conan insisted on sex before rescuing a girl, though my book noted that storyline was forced on Howard and he didn't like it.
It talks about races like tribes, but this is done in a historical way, matches historical writings of the time, isn't done maliciously and largely deals with fictional races
I think there was room in many of those stories to ask how those tribes viewed everyone else, likely the same way.
Well, tribes and cultures with more African or Oriental influences tend to be portrayed as kinda evil. The again, it's not like the more European-like people are portrayed in any idealized fashion, either. All in all, I wouldn't consider Conan stories all that racist. Even in terms of sexism they aren't bad for the products of their time. I seem to recall a couple of female characters who had their own goals and who achieved shit.
...
Everyone was a bit of a shithead. Individuals might be OK, but that was rare as well.
I'm gonna go with these guys The biggest thing I have a problem with in the stories is the way the Conan is narrated. I don't see it brought up a lot on here but a lot of the stories have big unnecessary bits dedicated to jacking off too how great Conan is. It's a serious case of telling, not showing, which is weird because Howard is fantastic at showing.
It sort of ruins the tension when you already know the guy is totally amazing and wise and just generally the best.
why would you buy them if you can pirate them online? never understood this lol i mean robert e howard is dead you are not supporting him, instead the jews
>ellipsis
>using problematic like its 2013
>kthx
2/10 got me to greentxt
4srs tho everyone you should know better, this some weak shit bait
Where can I pirate a hardback to put on my bookshelf, user?
Yeah, Belit was every bit Conan's equal and not just his hot pirate cocksleeve.
I advise against your reading Lovecraft if that bothers you.
I would advise reading the thread before making stupid replies.
Honestly, Howard was a misanthrope that seemed to dislike most people.
It's a way of shifting blame I feel. Instead of admitting that something is wrong with themselves for being uncomfortable with the subject, they try and shift the onus onto the subject to make it seem like it as at fault for making them uncomfortable. Never mind they are the ones who willingly expose themselves to the subject in question.
I think it was mostly because he believed in a cycle of civilization. Barbarians would overthrow a decadent civilized society, become civilized, become decadent and weak, and eventually be overthrown by barbarians instead.
It's hard to believe in racial supremacy ideologies when you think like that.
>Howard really knew some history, as pulpy as his world is.
Yeah, but you can definitely tell that it is a early 20th century view of history, such as how the old empire fell due to things like race mixing, a yellow horde in the east, and how only the pure whites are not as evil as everyone else. If you want to get a better idea of where he was coming from, read H. G. Wells' Outline of History.
>Meanwhile in Europe...
Except he believed that one way a society became decadent was through race mixing, so...
Oh, and that not only could societies generate, but the people themselves could physically degenerate into evil, dumb, apes.
Wells himself though did not support such notions.
He's not wrong.