/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

>forced meme

Hey, remember the time White Wolf stacked a tantrum and ended their entire universe as well as their viability as a company?

I'm basically a mage irl

Short sighted and full of hubris?

What's the general opinion here about Demon the Fallen?

It desperately needed a 2nd edition to explain certain problems (storing excess Faith, for example), but as pointed out, White Wolf threw a massive tantrum and were too busy destroying their company to do anything sensible like that.

Can Vampires, either in Masquerade or Requiem, genuinely feel love or love someone?

I'd say no. Their emotions are curb stomped by their condition, they're flat. There is the blood bond of course, but that's not true love either.

Can people?

That's the thing though. Vampires aren't people. Not really. They're not human anymore. But that doesn't mean that they don't necessarily feel the same things. I just remember that in oWoD Toreadors only had some faint echo of love for individuals, before the shit would fade away and they'd lose interest in the person.

I think yes, but they need to be very young and humane too get attached to others, which screws them when dealing with other vampires.

>That's the thing though. Vampires aren't people. Not really. They're not human anymore.

The HUMANITY track, which can be higher for some Vampires than for some humans, seems to disagree with this notion.

As usual, everything hangs on the definition of the word "human".

Deep.

Ah good times, at least the revised tamtrun got us good rules. The nwod gave us half baked games for a while until they got their shit together.

>remember the time White Wolf stacked a tantrum and ended their entire universe as well as their viability as a company?

WW's viability as a company was already long tenuous at the point of the Time of Judgment. The heyday of ttrpgs of the mid to late 1990's was definitely over. The TOJ was a last ditch, Hail Mary, effort to save the company.

>hich can be higher for some Vampires than for some humans,
Wrong. Humans do not have Humanity, as they are by definition humans. Humanity measures how good you are a keeping up the facade of Humanity, how well you are able to lie to yourself about your true nature as a monster.

Jesus, someone's still whiny about nWoD after all these years.

Requiem, especially 2e, goes on and on about love. There's even a 1e supplement for Vampire romance ERP one on one games.

Masquerade had this weird annoying thing of "you have no emotions at all, and can only feel things you felt in life". Or maybe that was Requiem 1e as well, but I always preferred to see it as the vampires could feel emotion, but they might feel them very dull, like someone who has depression. They need strong experiences to kick them out of their ennui.

But 2e seems to have mostly ditched that? Vampires only feel disaffected and melancholy due to being Byronian, not due to the innate problems of Vampirism.

God-tier:
>Cappadocian
>Lasombra
>Malkavian (done right)
>Nosferatu
>Tzimisce

Mid-tier:
>Assamite
>Tremere
>Salubri-antitribu
>Setites/Serpents of the Light
>Ventrue

Awesome for NPCs-tier
>Baali
>Blood Brothers
>True Brujah
>Gargoyle
>Harbingers of Skulls
>Kiasyd
>Nagaraja
>Salubri
>Samedi
>Old Clan Tzimisce
>Tlacique
>Daitya

Low-tier:
>Brujah
>Gangrel
>Giovanni
>Ravnos
>Toreador

Caitiff-tier:
>Ahrimanes
>Caitiff/Panders
>Children of Osiris
>Daughters of Cacophony
>Fishmalks

Not anymore. Humanity in 2e is how strong the Man is within yourself. And the Beast and the Man are no longer enemies.

But Humanity is like a muscle, it must be exercised or it will atrophy.

Being humane and knowing love is a must for vampires, if only to sharpen their fangs with it.

Or else they become draugr.

>Requiem, especially 2e, goes on and on about love
page reference please

>dat supplement
is that official?

>2e seems to have mostly ditched that?
Are you making claims again without actual references? Genuine question before I'm going to start debating you on this.

All I seem to remember is the Daeva clanbane. And that's not really love at all.

First sentences of the Humanity description:

>Kindred are not human. They were, once, but now they’re something entirely different
Try argueing they're human still, faggot

>dat supplement

Yup, it's one of the tail-end 1e supplements. Not much mechanics, it's all about the ways humans and vampires interact and telling stories with romantic context.

Onyx Path fags mostly, they feel the noose closing around their neck with White Wolf being back and Onyx Path's only successful products being 20 year anniversaries of oWoD stuff and merchandise. That and the deteriorating relationship between WW and OP.

Whodda guess shitting all over stuff you've borrowed while being more of a propaganda machine then a tabletop game company could bite you in the ass.

Then again when OP is composed of gems of the industry like Morke, Holden, David Hill, etc...

And their fans are straight off of tumblr, RPGnet and championed by gems such as Aspel, howls and sergalfag...

I said humane not human. Learn to read, faggot.

You're not this user then?

>As usual, everything hangs on the definition of the word "human".

I'd rather a SJW than an edgelord like Dracula.

Nope.

That said he is right in that there are some vampires that are more humane then your average human is.

This has little to do with personhood though if you ask me. A person is someone accepted to be a person. Is god a person despite his existence being vague? Is a random human you never knew and never will know a person? Is an undead blood drinking ex-human a person?

If you ask me the criteria is:

1. To be sentient
2. To be humane enough to relate to humans

To be a human person.

Is a low to no integrity slasher a person or human despite having integrity like humans do and inhuman powers that can be supernatural?

>White Wolf being "back"

Somebody drank the Kool-Aid, I see. Get ready, you're going to want to wish WoD stayed gone.

Which further proves your lack of judgement.

For an SJW is nothing but an edgelord that thinks his hysteria is virtuous and ethical.

>is that official?

Unfortunately yes, it was that time when nwod devs ran out of both ideas and money and try one last desperate atempt to sell one last book. Kinda like deviant now or orpheus then.

Patrician tier
>Ventrue
>Toreador

Equestrian tier
>Cappadocian
>Dominate Malkavian
>Gangrel (all bloodlines except Mariner)
>Giovanni
>Lasombra
>Nosferatu
>Salubri
>Samedi

Plebeian tier
>Blood Brothers
>Brujah scum
>Caitiffs and Panders
>Daughters of Cacophony
>Fishmalks
>Mariner Gangrel
>Ravnos
>Setites

Philistine tier
>Ahrimanes
>Nagaraja

Crawling in my skin tier
>Assamites
>Old Clan Tzimisce
>Salubri antitribu
>Serpents of Light
>True Brujah
>Tzimisce

Dude wizards tier
>Tremere

>Get ready, you're going to want to wish WoD stayed gone.

Literally cant be worse then we we have now, a merchandising company propped up with unpaid freelancers and a slew of kickstarter scams.

Do people actually like VtM or is it just a really intricate meme?

I don't care for that tier-shit, but I actually like VtM. But I also like VtR equally, so I'm apparently a pariah or a crazy person. I find value in both of them for a variety of stories.

Don't worry, most reasonable people find value in both games.

Its a meme on the Onyx Path forums. The reality is that VtM never not sold.

For fucks sake why do you think the first thing Onyx Path did after writing two books to prove that they exist is start a kickstarter for every single oWoD splat? With all of them having around 500% funding?

While fucking 2e nWoD sells less then 1e nWoD?

What magical numerological sorcery could this be.

People like it, personally i like it to play in but not dm it. The setting is lots of fun and very deep (in the sense that is very big). The conflict is clearly defined and the setting as is you can run it straight from the book and it still gonna be "okay" (maybe not great, but just okay) while requiem requires a lot from the dm to make the setting.

Heh. I was more reflecting on the fact that I've posted that opinion before and gotten slews of WTF mate reactions.

Oh, and for the dude who commented about Pentex? They actually haven't completely fucked up yet. The difficulty to feed in town is astronomical right now, and they're still poking the hornet by hacking the Pentex systems to plant more false leads (and that Assamite is being followed by a Technology Bane who is messing with all of his tech, which has him paranoid). And a few of them followed a local security team into/through the sewers looking for 'Subject 2' (a Samsa Mockery Breed that the vampires inadvertently set free with their influence-created bombings). My players enjoy jumping in with weights tied to their ankles.

So, is anybody excited for Deviant?

Pretty sure it's just nostalgia and an echochamber of people that act like the newer editions are the worst thing ever. Kind of like 4e and D&D.

I might be, if they actually released some more goddamn information on it. I wonder if they're nervous about another new line after how Beast was handled and received.

>Kind of like 4e and D&D.

>5e selling like candy.

Well there goes your theory down the drain.

What kind of vampire would Alucard from Hellsing be in Masquerade and Requiem?

>Literally cant be worse then we we have now,
>slew of kickstarter scams

Things can always get worse.

Moreover, the Kickstarter projects are now, for the most part, the most supported and reliable projects. Since people have already committed funds, Kickstarter projects have priority on the release schedule and you know that certain supplements are guaranteed. The early issues with projects like Exalted have largely been resolved, and if you want a new (or old) line to succeed, a Kickstarter is the way to go.

I only wish lines like Forsaken and Awakening had Kickstarters...

Unstatted ye monger of ancient memes.

5e is them bending over and completely abandoning 4e in favor of improving on 3.5e.

Buddy, let me tell you something. There's a storm coming your way.

>ripping off animoo characters
>absolutely_disgusting.jpg

...

>if they actually released some more goddamn information on it

Dave has practically gone dark.

He now rarely posts here or the OPP forums, and we've received little new information or spoilers for either Mage or Deviant. Dave's also not released the promised Mage post-release material on legacies or antagonists or the Mage FAQ..

I assume real life priorities have taken over his time and attention rather than any disinterest, but it is still not encouraging.

Why, though? He's not exactly a god, he's just really powerful.

Anime powers rarely, if ever, map 1-to-1 to WoD powers in any form. Plus you can assume not everyone here has seen Hellsing and only knows him from meme pictures.

>Moreover, the Kickstarter projects are now, for the most part, the most supported and reliable projects.

>The early issues with projects like Exalted have largely been resolved

>Exalted
>Resolved

Call me when the game is released in 2014, with quality art, no requirement for immediate erratas, comics between every chapter, a novel (not the abortion of anthology which was a separate goal), music, supplements for artifacts, sorcery, abyssals, infernals, miscellaneous anathema at the most in 2015. At least we got charm cards as promised! In three parts. Sold separately. Hows that 2e backwards compatibility and translation guide that was promised?

I bet Holden enjoyed his two pay bumps though.

Reliable indeed for the, back then, most funded tabletop RPG kickstarter in existence.

Utter.

Quality.

Indeed!

And its because 4e was utter trash and completely clashed with D&D in general, it was what no-one wanted.

Just... Like...

He still posts on the Something Awful forum's World of Darkness megathread. But I don't expect to hear anything about Deviant or any Mage blog material until later this year, or at least until after Signs of Sorcery.

Good memes, post more.

He knows the ship is sinking. And is probably pretty salty because of what happened with Mage 2e vs Mage 20.

>dis bait

Thread, please don't feed the troll.

That's a good point. I'm not aiming for a perfect copy, though. And his powers aren't that hard to represent.

What I'm unsure of is what Mask and Dirge he'd have. I think they would be Monster and Competitor. He was pretty violent, but what he really wanted was to find a worthy opponent.

His Clan is Gangre.

>And is probably pretty salty because of what happened with Mage 2e vs Mage 20.

What happened?

Its okay bro 4e wasn't shit, its just a meme, its completely unrelated that it didn't sell and was scrapped while only garnering niche attention. Hasbro practically apologized for it and promised to focus more on the desires of the fanbase but yeah. Its just a m e m e

take it to the dnd general, guy

He's salty about the book that he himself pitched into the KS for?

The OPP ship isn't sinking until the telltale sign shows up on the internet: when freelancers stop being paid for their work at all. Nothing else, literally nothing else, is a death knell sign for a company in this industry.

Stryx possessed probably.

THEY RARELY EVER FUCKING PAY THEIR FREELANCERS

AHAHAHAHAHA

I doubt anything happened.

Exalted is indeed a clusterfuck. However, it's problems are somewhat unique, and Holden's issues have not affected the reliability or quality of the myriad of World of Darkness Kickstarters.

The only other Kickstarter that seems to be falling a little behind in Mage 20, and that was predictable since Brucato is basically a one man show (and he's a industrial-level douche).

The business model really fucks the freelances.

Not only is the pay embarrassingly low, but they don't get paid until the book is actually released. Since some projects sit around in "development" or "art direction and layout" for months or *years*, the freelances really get screwed.

Since OPP has now hired more full-time people, Rich claims the speed and quality of releases will improve. I remain dubious, but hopeful.

Would any of you use the Slender Man in your games? If so, how would you do it?

Am I weirdo for not knowing anything in-depth about the devs and whatever drama they may or may not be involved in? Unless it has a direct impact on the products, why make such a big deal out of it?

Give me a page reference where it says otherwise. There are plenty of references to vampires being able to feel love. Hell, try the Touchstones for examples of Vampires having emotions. The very mechanic is about emotional connections. There's two vampires in love in the Mission domain. There are three Vampire-Ghoul sample romances in the Ghoul section.
If the 2e book doesn't explicitly mention something, chances are it isn't there anymore. Just like the Unihar. Nowhere in Werewolf 2e *says* "there are no more murder spirit babies", but people still understand that it's gone (mostly because of word of mouth).

How is it when they ran out of ideas or money? It's pretty reasonable to do a Vampire book on romance. I mean, it IS from when they were on the edge, but it's not like it's some creatively bankrupt "throw shit and see what sticks" idea. Vampire has always been about romance of a stripe, from Carmilla to Dracula to Louis.

user, if you seriously think that, you're denying reality. Are you aware that the nWoD has now existed for longer than the oWoD? I know you're trolling, but there are people who actually believe this. That White Wolf switching to nWoD was somehow a bad business move, and not something that reinvigorated the company in a dying market.

Also, White Wolf as it originally existed doesn't exist. Onyx Path is for all intents and purposes the real White Wolf.

>While fucking 2e nWoD sells less then 1e nWoD?
Gee, I wonder if the radically different market has something to do with that...
Also, the marketplace where they're both being sold consistently puts 2e up top. Even above oWoD.

>Things I don't like are scams

>ITT: People who are talking out their asses fail to grasp the complexities of the RPG market

So what should you do when as a hunter, you find out your fiance is one of the lost?

Look for a cure.

Fishmalks are obnoxious, but Dominate Malks are limp queers. Filthy dumb Cammie scum. Diablerize every single Blue Blood and Degenerate.

Also, why are Old Clan Tzimisce and Assamites "Crawling in my skin"-tier? Doesn't make any fucking sense, especially not Assamites.

Are ghosts useful?
Like what could you use a ghost for other than spying purposes?

Which is the best city sourcebook for VTM?

Does anyone as a download link for Secrets of the Covenants ? It isn't in the megabin

>How is it when they ran out of ideas or money? It's pretty reasonable to do a Vampire book on romance. I mean, it IS from when they were on the edge, but it's not like it's some creatively bankrupt "throw shit and see what sticks" idea. Vampire has always been about romance of a stripe, from Carmilla to Dracula to Louis.

It kinda is a creative bankrupt "throw shit and see what sticks" idea, if they wanted to put a chapter dedicated to romance sute i can see it but a whole fucking book? Nigga please.

Requiem had a problem of being overbloated with useless supplements which many could have been cut in half. Strange dead love is just the most obvious example of a line overstatting its welcome.

Pic related

The same thing you'd do with any monster. You kill her the moment she stops being useful for hunting other monsters.

Plenty of things. You could send a ghost to attack or distract someone, you could summon the ghost of a murder victim to help your investigation, you could have a ghost watch your sanctum for security, etc.

>Diablerize Ventrue and Toreadors
Spotted the Brujah anarch scum. Dominate Malks are great.
>Old Clan Tzimisce
They're Tzimisce but involved with the True Black Hand or still lording over peasants like it's 1780 instead of being Sabbat. It's pretty bad.
>Assamites
Serial diablerie is pretty edgy. I considered putting the Salubri there too, but they limit themselves to their sires.

>Daughters of Cacophony

What's the deal with these cunts anyway? They're right there with the Children of Osiris as dumbest bloodline ever.

The only one who's remotely interesting is Muse, and she serves Metathiax.

Plenty of VtM bloodlines are dumb, but VtR is full of them too.

I, uh, what's the thing with the ear?

>Spotted the Brujah anarch scum.
Nope. I was the one who ranked them along with Gangrel in low tier, remember? Sure, some of them are interesting, but the majority of the clan is brick stupid.

Helena is the only Torrie I respect. The rest should be diablerized.

The Ventrue is similarly scum. Their Antitribu is based, though.

"If I were forced to pick the single most pathetic clan, Brujah would get my vote. Yes, even ahead of the Toreador or the Gangrel. The Rabble are the parasites' parasites. Their sect seeks to cower away from mortal eyes rather than striding forth in glory or simply blinding the kine with hot pokers. This clan in turn prides itself on rebellion but cannot actually manage to leave, take over or otherwise alter the status quo. The antitribu are much the same, except with more blood and piercings."

"So-called egalitarians, they have no real interest in bettering the lot of others. Rather, they want us brought down to their level so that they can lord it over the rest of us in the democratic mire. Fortunately, their chances of success are nil. In the meantime, those who serve us make superb cannon fodder, and those who do not die easily."

Lasombra, on the Brujah

>They're Tzimisce but involved with the True Black Hand or still lording over peasants like it's 1780 instead of being Sabbat. It's pretty bad.
The Tal'Mahe'Ra can be interesting, but the majority of it is painfully convoluted and difficult to follow. And much of the plot wasn't helped by...ahem...THAT book.

Either way, do the Daughters at least have a decent origin story?

I heard they're a product of the fae like the Kiasyd.