/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls Lore General

Nocturnal

Namira.

...

Missing anything?

>Orsimer
>Beast races
Make it half-blue half-green at least.

The Man/Mer/Bet is only a superficial distinction anyway. When Nords first encountered Bretons, they thought them elves. Dreugh are universally considered to be a beast race, but Vivec calls them "Aldmer of the Sea". Khajiit are techniclly elves too.

The colors only to the perceived status of the race.

Aren't Bosmer offshoots of Khajiit by way of divergent evolution?

Sorta.

Better?

Wait are they? I've never heard this, always thought they were Aldmer off-shoots

Bosmer and Khajiit are just made from the same stock. The former are shaped by Yiffre, the latter by Azura and Lorkhan.

First of all it's Chimeri-quey, not Chimeri-Quei.

Depends on how obscure you want to go, user.
You could add the Kothringi at least. And I guess you could argue for a Reachmen/Breton split.

If we go full obscure:
Pre-Alessian peoples of Cyrodiil:
>Nedes, Kothringi, Al-gemha, Keptu/Men-of-Keptu, Men-of-Ge, Al-hared, Men-of-Ket
The extent to which these were racially distinct is largely unknown, but the two we do know something about (Nedes and Kothringi) are racially different.

If we include clearly intelligent beast races there's Hagravens, Centaurs, Imps, Nymphs, and Spriggans, though most of those probably fit under "Animals".

Plus there's always the unknown inhabitants of Esroniet (they once had a ruler called Bashomon) and Yneslea. But those are just speculation.

You should add Hahd and Nahd just to confuse people.

>If we go full obscure
>Nedes, Kothringi, Al-gemha, Keptu/Men-of-Keptu, Men-of-Ge, Al-hared, Men-of-Ket
These are all far less obscure (and more relevant) than Chimer-Quey

I don't think Khajiit and Bosmer came from Aldmer

Colovians and Nibenese aren't Nedic groups, they're Cyro-Nordic, they replaced the Nedes.
Rieklings are believed to be degenerated Falmer (much like the modern Falmer themselves)
And why is "Altmora Aldmer" included?

>it's Chimeri-quey, not Chimeri-Quei
Fixed.
>You could add the Kothringi at least. And I guess you could argue for a Reachmen/Breton split.
Done.
>Al-gemha, Keptu/Men-of-Keptu, Men-of-Ge, Al-hared, Men-of-Ket
Aren't these all just Nedic tribes?
>Hagravens
These are supposedly closer to werebeasts, as in, normal people of various races turn into them.
>Centaurs, Imps
Added.
>Nymphs
Probably just a sort of nature spirit, like Spriggans.

Who else?

>Colovians and Nibenese aren't Nedic groups, they're Cyro-Nordic, they replaced the Nedes.
uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Frontier,_Conquest
>Rieklings are believed to be degenerated Falmer
Not enough info on this.
>And why is "Altmora Aldmer" included?
Why not? It was a distict strain of Aldmer.

>Aren't these all just Nedic tribes?
I doubt it. It's from The Adabal-a, and Nedes are listed with Kothringi and Men-of-'Kreath, who are not Nedic.

I always took it as a single tribe just being eponymous for the whole group.

Frontier Conquest makes no mentioning of either Colovians or Nibenese, it was clearly referring to the pre-Nordic Nedic peoples. As the name implies, 'Cyro-Nords' were not a thing until Nords arrived in Cyrodiil.
From PGE1:
>It was in the rain forests of the Nibenay Valley that the original Cyro-Nordic tribes, the Nibenese, learned a self-reliance
>The Cyro-Nords that settled it had relinquished the fertile Nibenay Valley long ago, determined to conquer the frontier. Their primitive ferocity was disinclined to magic or the need for industry, preferring bloody engagement and plunder instead. After they had captured the Nedic port-cities of the Strident coast, the Westerners embarked on a mastery of the sea
The Nibenese people, the original Cyro-Nords, developed from the Nords who settled in Nibenay and interbred with the indigenous population. Colovians were also derived from this group and expanded Western, displacing the indigenous Nedes.

>Why not? It was a distict strain of Aldmer.
That's basically an oxymoron.
There are no 'distinct strains of Aldmeri,' the term 'Aldmer' refers to the original singularly united Elven race. To imply their were other distinct groups of Aldmer is to imply they were not Aldmer. It's like saying 'distinct strain of Humanity,' it can't be said because that's as general as you can get, if something is distinct from humanity it is not human.
In other words, the 'Altmora Aldmer' were just Aldmer.

>Not enough info on this
Quote from Bloodmoon
>Foul creatures. Some call them the Falmer, claim they are related to the other elves. This I do not know,
You mine as well remove Harpies and Giants from the list as well if you are disqualifying common belief.

Why are Guars so lovable?

Yes, but
>These so-called "Nedic peoples" include the proto-Cyrodilians...
The whole Cyro-Nord thing really sounds like an invention of "Out Of Atmora" theory proponents.

>There are no 'distinct strains of Aldmeri,' the term 'Aldmer' refers to the original singularly united Elven race. To imply their were other distinct groups of Aldmer is to imply they were not Aldmer. It's like saying 'distinct strain of Humanity,' it can't be said because that's as general as you can get, if something is distinct from humanity it is not human.
Makes sense.

>Quote from Bloodmoon
> >Foul creatures. Some call them the Falmer
Yep, people call them Falmer themselves. Not Falmer descendants. Also, in the related quest we actually disprove this.

Just got out of privateer's hold in Daggerfall. Is the game worth playing? Should I play Oblivion or ESO instead?

Also, what's the creepiest, most evil looking region of Tamriel? I'm thinking black marsh but is there more?

Because they're the Chocobos of Morrowind.
I'm afraid that it won't change anything in the end. It would be like killing Thalmor, or better yet wiping out every Orc Stronghold, in Skyrim. It's not practical and in some cases not viable, and it doesn't change anything.

proto-Cyrodiilians would not be the same thing as Cyro-Nords, the very use of the term cyro in the term 'cyro-nord' implies they are cyrodiilic and therefore not proto-cyrodiilic
Find me one source that refers to Nibenese or Colovians prior to Alessia's rebellion (when the Nords began settling in Nibenay). Back then Cyrodiil was inhabited by, as stated, 'proto-cyrodiilian' nedic tribes.
I'm not saying, that the Colovians and Nibenese are literally Nords, I'm saying they became something notably distinct from the indigenous Nedic peoples.

In other words, something like this?

Honestly I normally struggle playing the game after the Privateer's Hold, but I'm sticking with my newly made anti-mage spellsword.

Highrock would be a definite contender, especially the Rivenspire region for being mostly spooky dead trees. Also, if a land filled with witches and the skeletons we see in Daggerfall aren't enough, they literally have a place known as Skeffington Woods that's filled with friendly witches.

Atmora's got to be pretty evil, with the tentacle demons and all

they're called role-playing games for a reason, user

Thras.

I'm aware, but it would be a bit hard to roleplay killing a race for something their descendants haven't done yet. Unless your character had a vision in a dream. Don't let me stand in the way of having fun, though.

What does Thras even look like? I just figured it would be a tropical or sub tropical island.

>the skeletons we see in Daggerfall
>mfw the nightmare never ends
youtube.com/watch?v=qaIOaE7Mg9Y
H-hold me, /tgesg/.

>Is the game worth playing?
Yes.

The first time I played Daggerfall I got lost in some endless hell-tomb filled with corpses and eternally screaming skeletons. It was more tense than most horror games I've played.

Weird lore question. To humans, our genders are referred to as Man and Woman. To elves, would it be Mer and Woman/Womer, or do they just say male, or is Man is the context of gender just used universally?

If the latter, wouldn't that be pretty offensive to elves, and strange considering Tamrielic is based on Aldmeri.

user, consider the possibility that not all languages work like English.

I presume that Tamrielic is essentially English, otherwise the "I = Wheel's side" metaphor in the 36 Sermons doesn't really work.

So far it seems like Mer is only used in places not referring to gender (kinsmer, liegemer, high shop foremer and foremost dildo production merager)

Well, that implies that the Sermons are written in common Tamrielic and not Chimeris/Dunmeris. And that if one metaphor matches up with English then the rest of the language must necessarily be English.

Consider instead this:
There's no cases of "womer" ever being used, or "Mer" being used in a gendered sense. This is because, in Tamrielic, the word "Mer" does not have a double meaning that happens to be the same as the word for a gender.
The fact that "Man" may or may not have the same double meaning in Tamrielic that it has in English wouldn't really affect the usage of "Mer" either way.

>merager
I get it.

I also presumed that the books in game were written or at least translated into Tamrielic as the player can read it regardless of their background.

The thought happened when thinking of Altmeri males, who would naturally react poorly to being called Men by someone in Tamrielic. Perhaps I'm just overthinking it and one probably wouldn't take offense if the double meaning in Tamrielic exists.

Ayleids are just a cultural group of Altmer in Cyrodiil, not a separate race.

Their culture is different enough.

Also, Giants have Elf ears, so they're more likely descendants of the Atmoran Aldmer than the Atmoran men.

>Here is why: the Giants came from Old Atmora, up there across the Northern Ice back in the gone-to-twilight-now age of myth... and settled here in the Skyrim, and all along the mountain ranges of our coasts. (Yes, they are our true ancestors-- do not believe your aunt from the university-- and, yes, we were once as big as them-- as tall as THIS-- but that is another story)... [text lost]... and after [the Great Calamity] happened [the clan-things (peoples? tribes? Text seems to indicate mankind as a whole, though that is debateable)]... we were of a kind disrupted... and we Nords fell into fighting and drove our Giant-kin up unto the mountaintops [and we were a wicked-folk for many years]... [until all] things had changed forever. Once the Moot resumed [(unspecified) years later] things got back to a new semblance of normalcy and borders were redrawn and agreed with in beer-talk, and raidings of the merethlands took everyone's mind off old feuds, and pretty soon (well, not pretty soon but whatever) the Giants began to come down from the mountains again. And they were a bit different than we Nords remembered, or perhaps we had forgotten much, but they would not speak to us anymore-- they would only smile in their lazy way, stomp over, and take our stuff.

Because That isn't Akatosh at all, that is Martin improvising the dankest Dragon Aspect Shout of all time after absorbing the souls of dozens of Dragonborn Emperors and several Shezzarines including Pelinal. The real Aka-tusk would never before helping Tamriel after being molested by the Selectives, his only real lasting impact is through the ghost left after the death of his mortal aspect known commonly as Auri-El. After dying Auri-El left a shadow on all Tamrielic myths as the missing upstart Lorkhan, who himself acts only through mortal echoes of his once mortal form. These mortal forms have been drifting to Oblivion in an attempt to Mantle their former Ada. These have inherited and madness and division of their master. LHKAN AE SHEOG. I call upon the rule of cool to declare this canon.

doesn't make sense to me tbqh desu

1. The death of "Lorkhan" was the suicide attempt of an insane god
2. This god wasn't Lorkhan at all, but the divided and insane aspect of Aka-Tusk that had encountered the secrets of the Tower, Auri-El.
3. Auri-El fought a war with himself in order to purge himself of his division.
4. After Auri-El "died" he haunted his own mortal creation as Shor, Shezzar, Lorkhan, etc.
5. This new deity's true identity is that of the "Void Ghost".
6. The Void Ghost leaks down into the mortal realm every age as the Shezzarines.
7. Sheogorath is a "failed" Mantling of Auri-El built from the souls of many Shezzarines. The Void Ghost tried to reform itself as a daedra, but the dreamer could tell the difference.

You don't get much more conspiracy theory than this.

Those mammoth skulls are pretty dope

>Alessia introduces the new Eight Divines religion
>The Time God becomes tainted by mannish perception
>The High King of Alinor is having none of this shit
>Secretly supports The Alessian Order, sacrificing remaining Ayylmaos
>Marukhati seek to expunge elven influence from Akatosh
>Bork the Dragon
>What they actually do is separate the Elven aspect of him and retroactively create Auri-El
>Auri-El ascends to Aetherius, paving the road for other Altmer

And Altmer would've gotten away with that if not for a certain Ayleid descendant by the name of Mankar Camoran aka Jagar Tharn.

Who is Aka-Tusk? Yokudan Akatosh? I know Auri-El is Aldmeri Akatosh, and I know that the different races god's aren't just different names for the same beings, but I still don't really understand. I thought the Akatosh entity and the Lorkhan entity were directly at odds, Lorkhan tricking Akatosh and the other Aedra into creating Mundus?

Aka-Tusk is from memory a counterpart to the Nord Alduin, the Nordic belief of what Alduin derives from.

Is there any possibility that the main villain(s) of Elder Scrolls 6 won't be either:

>A power-hungry dark wizard who may or may not be elven and mad
>A dark god that wants to conquer or destroy the world

because it feels like these are the only two types of main villains TES has sometimes

Aka-Tusk is a nickname for the original Time-Dragon that came before Akatosh, Alduin, Auri-El etc. People sometimes refer to it as the Akatosh Oversoul, Aka Oversoul, or just Aka. We don't know much about it, people just theorize that it must exist based on the various deities that are clearly linked.

Regarding the links between Aka and Lorkhan, there's an old theory that was fueled by MK that Lorkhan and Akatosh shared the same oversoul, and that oversoul was schizophrenic and at war with itself.

"You guessed it. The Arena is a collection of pseudo-imagos, all the way down to the core. Lorkhan is Akatosh, the Dragon God of Time is the Missing God of Change." - MK

The return of the Dwemer to Tamriel as invaders would be awesome, assuming they're still alive.

I'd like some kind of savage, expansionist horde to appear in a game. Fantasy Mongols are always cool.

I want the Elder Council to go full power hungry fascists in response to the Thalmor and the next game to be a political, espionage filled quest to defeat them.

New Akaviri invasion?

>he doesn't know about the disappearance of the Dwarves

It is kinda strange how frequently villains are Altmer

TELL ME ABOUT THE DWARVES

Sounds like Orcs to me

That makes no sense and is hollow.
>Akatosh and Lorkhan are actually NOT different entities
>They're just an Entity which has multiple personality disorder :^)

Was getting confused a part of your master plan?

I think some user in a previous thread mentioned an idea for a spin off game in the style of dishonored where you play as an Imperial nightblade stabbin and sneakin around the IC. Meshes well with your idea I think.

Bethesda owns Arkane Studios. Throw it at them to keep us satisfied so they have more time to make TES6 good.

You know, if TES6 was all about fighting Numidium, that'd be pretty fucking neat.

Where and how do the redguard gods even exist in the present kalpa?

Surely not Oblivion
Not Mundus either
So Aetherius with the magna ge?

They don't.

For reasons that can not be told, I was gone for one year.
Lore-wise, did anything big or intresting happen, or should I come back in the far future?

That does sound extremely based, actually.

Except for how well it mirrors the themes of the Anuad and the numerous links concerning Arctus, Pelinal, etc.

Anu the Dreamer is not a sane dreamer.

So my rommate plays D&D and says you all made a Skyrim game. Cool. Are you all helping make Skyrim 2? I hope they make Skyrim 2 soon, want to kick those Thalmor asses.

...

Is that an item for Skyrim 2? Can we fish in it?

What lore is there for Valenwood orcs?

They fucked off to the northwest after being freed from slavery and got analy destroyed by Ra Gada.

A lot of the clans worship Hircine.

The sequel is actually Dawnguard 2: A Skyrim Story

But remember, shhhh
You didn't hear it here

That Elven Rosetta Stone in Skyrim was translated, and it was an interesting read. Maybe someone has some images.

>Aka-Tusk is a nickname for the original Time-Dragon
Kirkbride himself has stated that Aka-Tusk is one of the Aka-spirits.

That's real fuckin weak, m8. Try a little

imperial-library.info/content/translation-calcelmos-stone
boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/49256082/#49257318
Someone might have done a better job by now, but this is what I could remember.

Put a box around all the akaviri races.
Maybe add another box for all the creatures which are men/mer altered by daedric/magical influence (so werewolves, vampires, hagravens etc.)
Perhaps add spriggans as an offshoot of nature spirits.

I've been reading up on Ayleidoon again because of Elder Kings, and the two languages are pretty much the same.
Let me make a quick correction that I just noticed.

Back then, I couldn't figure out the correct meaning of the words "Rias nu nemalauta ge", just that they roughly corresponded to "For we do not believe in it".

But I think I can untangle it now.

I don't have anything that proves the exact meaning of "Rias" and "Ge", but since the language's syntax is subject–verb–object, then I'm fairly certain that "Ge" has to mean "It". And we already know that "Nu" means "We".

"Malautavoy" is Falmeris for "Know" (as an imperative), and if we remove the -voy suffix then we end up with a non-imperative form of "Know", "Malauta". Furthermore, "Ne" in Ayleidoon means "Never", and if we apply that as a prefix it works.
In other words, "Nemalauta" means something like "Never-know" (possibly "Not-know"). This leaves us with two options of interpretation. The most likely is that we must read "Nemalauta" as "Not-believe". The second, which I see someone on /r/teslore has suggested, is that it means "Believe", BUT that would have to mean that the negative in the sentence must be the only unknown word, "Rias". And that would create a really weird syntax.

So I think it's more likely that "Rias" means "For", "Nu" means "We", "Nemalauta" means "Not-believe"/"Not-know", and that "Ge" means "It".
>"Rias nu nemalauta ge" = "For we not-know it"

So, is it ever explicitly stated how many languages there are in the actual lore? Do the Dunmer have their own language, and do we have some words from it? Do the Nords have their own language? Colovians and Nibenese? Argonians? Bretons?

How do you fight something that could essentially remove your being from existence by cherry picking timelines until it finds one that satisfies it?

Glad you got out of the cooler, user.

Also we figured how spell runes work.
Bretons do have their own language according to King Edward. It's called Bretic.

By retconning that because it's dumb and uncreative

What are orcs?

A race.

Protip: The more "alien" a race is supposed to seem, the more likely the Devs will give them a made up language instead of just speaking English.
Which is why we have several words in Ta'agra, Jel, Ayleidoon, Falmeris, Dwemeris, and no words that are "Cyro-Nordic".
But off the top of my head, in addition to the languages mentioned above, there's Yoku, Cydoriilic, Bretic, Chimeris/Dunmeris and Atlmeris.

We just don't know.

It's a difficult question because Orcs are impossible to describe. One might ask the same about Ayleids.

What are Ayleids? We just don't know.