MTG LEGACY GENERAL

First for infect is the best deck in mod- legacy!
I put a bayou, an abrupt Decay and a Leovold in my list last week. Was just as abysmal as I expected it to be.

What spice should I add this week? 4x Delver of Secrets? I didn't mind having 4x Spellstutter sprites in my deck when I played mono blue delver.

Well my deck IS pretty great and I'm sure none of you want me to explain why

because WoTC believes in not having fun, and while Tolarian academy, Necropotence and various other "enablers" are banned you are allowed to have your shit top and counterbalance. Good for you

Don't forget Tainted Strike for your delvers!

we have the purest waifu of all

Why is necro banned again? What would it enable if it were unbanned? Would revoker spike?

I think the main idea behind banning cards like that is that they permit combo decks to exist, and apparently according to WoTC this is fun and uninteractive, while sitting there and having even the thoughts you make countered for 0 or 1 colorless mana is fine.

How can Necro or academy be any ways unbanned? While Miracles is pretty crazy, it's not THAT degenerate.

excluding affinity, Tolarian academy is actually not that busted. What would you do with it? Make the original Academy deck? You would either get your shit countered or you would be too slow. Base your entire deck around it? Half of the format can just wasteland>surgical extraction and you scoop.
Necro gives you cards at the end of the turn instead and you can't draw, and that is before you discard down to size. Lol

>Ancient tomb
>lotus petal
>lotus petal
>thought knot seer

this and variations of this are in the format

As much of a diehard combo player as I am, I think 4-Necro Storm would be far too broken.

I would make a TON of Thopters.

based on what? It wouldn't make storm faster.
More consistent maybe, but meh, you would still eat shit from miracles.

Sure make all the thopters you want. We should be allowed to have shit like that in a "powerful" format.

Titan post is the best deck cause you get to cast the biggest fatties. Then that fattie get you land and lets you cast bigger fatties, then you you swing with the fatties and get even more land and rotlfstomp through whatever board it is they have. You also get to put on shades and smoke a phat blut when you come up against miracles.

So the next question is though. Would affinity actually be relevant again if academy came back?

I have to admit that it is very likely that affinity would be absolutely disgusting.

I think t1 ritual->necro = turn 2 win a lot of the time. Consistency is a big deal. Plus it's a low risk, must counter spell. You don't have to crack LEDs to get value from it. Thinking about it a bit more, 4 necro might be overkill but i think it's an easy 2 of and up to 4 seems defensible.

Idk what to think about hitting miracles anymore. I really like the idea of using top to manipulate the mechanic. But counter top, a lot like cabal therpy, its actually really in a non established meta or on its own. If they do hit something, I'd like to see counter balance or top. I hate variable locks like that. I mean ya chalice locks people out, but a hard 'no you cant cast x' as opposed to top that auto beats 1 drops AND might maybe counter what ever it is your trying to do, ON TOP of what ever responses theyt might have in hand. Its just to much.....not playing magic imo.

>countertop in field
>fetches
>ponders, preordains, brainstorms
>not hitting what you want

sure there are some dips at 4 and 3 mana cost but its pretty solid against most things.

I think the right thing to ban, if anything, is terminus. Countertop decks existed for a long time before becoming dominant. The printing of terminus is what enabled it.

I actually don't mind terminus that much. If I'm actually able to play magic. I just hate how by the time you have actually fought through the lock and gotten something to stick, your shit gets wiped then you swarmed or killed with jace. Thought that's the thing like, could the deck work without the lock? In general I hate just straight killing decks.

I think if terminus was gone, aggro-ish decks would have better game vs miracles and push it's meta share down significantly. Then even if you ran up against it once in a while it would be far less prevalent.

Why is Flayer of the Hatebound good in dredge? Am I missing something? It hits them for four then you have to wait for your upkeep to get back ichorids. It just seems like there are better things to reanimate to me.

Also, does anyone have an up to date LED dredge list?

The only decks I have are ANT/DDFT which I've goldfished for a while

Should I play one of those in the GP and get smoked by being a noob stormfag, or bring a less complex shitbrew and lose to unfair decks

flayer is used when you have several dread returns so you get flayer, 4 them, flashback dread return on a grave troll, 5 them and then hit them for the rest with the big grave troll. I think if you don't like the returns that much or are only running 1-2 main flame-kin zealot is probably better.

What GP are you talking about? I thought the next legacy one was the vegas GP in june. You'll have plenty of time to practice storm until then. However, it is definitely on the downswing in terms of popularity, it might not be the best choice.

GGT will almost always kill them as you have so many creatures in your graveyard and it deals damage equal to them, basically. So you need two Dread Returns and enough creatures/Bridges. Happened to me often enough.

If you really want to learn Storm, you have to play it against real opponents. Goldfishing and saying "Yeah I'll play Duress to get the one counter will do it" won't cut it. On the other hand, stopping after turn 4 isn't good either, as a lot of decks pull the brakes to stop you without putting that much pressure on you.

Thanks. The second dread return never crossed my mind.

San Jose January 27-29

I figure as much, and have been trying to get games in on xmage

Alternatively I could piece together pauper Pox

I'm almost certainly biased but I think you should bring DDFT. Trial by fire.

It's a pretty fun deck, not gonna lie

Still don't understand why people hate miracles so much, either than hating to wait 45 minutes to lose. It does a lot for the format for balancing between archetypes and the whole "it's not fun to play against" argument is a completely dull argument that's based on preference. It's sure as hell not fun to get a chalice on 1 and then get beat in 3 turns by eldrazi, it's sure as hell not fun to lose on turn 1 game when then sideboard in your 1 or 2 cards that may help you only to die on turn 1 or 2 again. Fun is subjective and that's hard to argue. If they ban anything from miracles it pretty much dies as a tier 1 deck, save for EtA.

> wait 45 minutes to lose.
I mean...

Because chalice isnt a guessing game. And storm as well as show and tell are very all or nothing decks. The biggest thing with miracles imo is that you have to wait to not play magic. And if you are actually able to play magic, you just get board wiped. Even in other counterspell heay decks like delver or infect, they either have a response or they dont. Miracles always has one and its almost always 1 mana. You basically have to deal with 3 different levels of not playing magic. You can play 1 drops. You probably cant play any 2-3 drops. And some times you just cant play anything at all because of forces and other shit in the hand. So you have 1 guaranteed no and 2 maybe nos. Its almost like its actual win con is an after thought to making the other person not play the game. If I wasn't balls deep into titan post and my local metal had a heavy miracles presence (thank god it dosnt) I honestly would just stop playing. At least paper anyway.

You make it sound like miracles slays every single deck there is, and that's simply not true. Miracles has to use its filters and fetches and top to find 2 cards that don't end the game on their own, show and tell finds its 2 pieces and then usually wins the game. Most popular storm decks aren't "all or nothing" they have good consistency and a competent player will know when to go for the kill.

I think Terminus would give aggro decks a fighting chance, which would be nice. The card that really upsets me though is Council's Judgement and how it hits any nonland permanent, despite shroud or hexproof .

I think miracles is as great deck and doesn't deserve any hate. Its always a joy for me to be paired against a miracles deck. A real gentlemanly match in my opinion.

t. stormfag

>Why I hate Chalice
It immediately invalidates half the cards people play Legacy for. Brainstorm, Ponder, Cabal Therapy, Preordain, Swords to Plowshares, Deathrite Shaman, Delver of Secrets, Gitaxian Probe... And that's just on 1. In what world would I want to play a format where my 4-12 cantrips that I specifically play the format for get shut off on turn 1?

I have always hated Chalice. When you can go turn 1 "stop half your deck", there's a problem. It's not punishing any kind of greedy manabase like Blood Moon. The card solely exists to piss people off and push a terrible, grindy archetype. If this card got banned from every format I wouldn't miss it at all.

>Why I hate Miracles
Now understand this, I don't HATE Miracles nor do I hate their players. I don't think they do anything degenerate in the format and I don't think there's a specific piece that can be banned to hinder, stall out, or otherwise hurt the impact of the deck.

Terminus doesn't make the deck broken. It's just a good, albeit situational, piece of removal.

Top doesn't make the deck broken. It's a good filter that really shines in a UW deck. Banning this card would be a mistake; then you could only play it in Vintage, where Mental Misstep exists, and why bother at that point?

Counterbalance is ONLY good when Top is on the field. Blind-flipping CB sucks dick. This card isn't broken either. If anything, it's a worse Chalice that I don't hate because it's harder to make it work than "lol Sol Land Chalice, concede now or later".

>love playing 4c Loam on Xmage
>In love with the deck
>can't afford it
FUCK YOU WIZARDS WHY DO YOU DO THIS

I dont understand how you can hate challice and not miracles. You know exactly what you can/cant do with a challice out. Miracles is a constant guessing game though a maze of bullshit.

>want to play a cool format
>standard isn't safe and rotates
>paper Modern is too expensive and rotates
>paper Legacy is too expensive and is going to slowly die in the next few years
>lol paper vintage
If I'm going to play MtGO, should I get into Legacy or Vintage?

Modern is too expensive and isn't safe*

I would rather play a guessing game than no game at all.

The only time I was ever super mad about miracles was back when they had DTT. I don't think I've any frustration since the deck since.

So back to this Anime:

>MC and his buddies plan to meet up
>MC's best friend doesn't turn up
>they go looking for him
>find him on his hands and knees, with a 15 year old leering over him
>"D-don't do it, MC, he... he beat me on the first turn! He's too strong!"
>MC ignore advice and fights villain
>"You wanna go down too, eh? Bring it on!"
>Gets t1 belched
>"Hah! Nothing in your sideboard can save you, MC, my deck is unbeatable!"
>Casts t1 belcher
TUNE IN NEXT WEEK TO SEE IF MC HAS FOW

>He does
>rekt
>g3 belcher only domes him for 18
>villain becomes friend with him and swaps to cheerios

If someone held a gun to your head and stole your playset of Abrupt Decays, what would you replace them with?

Bitch those are my abrupt decays I'll die for them

nothin personnel...

Maybe 2 Pushes and 2 Grips? Gotta kill Counterbalance somehow

Maelstrom Pulse/Push split probably

>Elves
Because our stupid shit is the best stupid shit. Plus it let's me feel like I'm playing a tribal deck when I'm instead playing a combo deck.

Thirding this. I'm interested to try Flusterstorm for specific abysmal matchups, but I'm not by any stretch sold on running it as more than a singleton/double.

Another problem with reactive cards is that they do nothing without targets. I lost a game to Burn once because I got stuck with a Chain of Vapor and some lands in my hand and he didn't have any Eidolons. Or any other nonland permanents. So I just sat there, desperately Brainstorming, with dick in hand, into more lands while he Bolted me to zero over about seven turns.

>Well, there was a time when I wouldn't have. I would've took what was mine and left the rest on the table. But I never made enough money to retire, I'm STUCK doing this shit, and I'm not young anymore. So now I don't leave nothin' on the table. Pick it up.

>*Nads-shotgun vengeance and harmonicas*

There is no substitute.

I guess if I had to lose Decay, I'd probably try something really off the wall like Energy Flux or Havoc Festival.

I was sad when I watched that episode, still pissed Joey didn't beat him up fucking bug fethist

Give him the decays then call my homies and beat the shit out of him in a parking lot.

>paper Legacy is too expensive and is going to slowly die in the next few years
This I don't really find to be true. The manabase is expensive, but the rest is not. The community also seems to be growing here in Vienna, we have 2 regular legacy tournaments per week here in 2 different game stores, and I often meet up with friends to just casually play legacy.

...

We've established the main character plays Shardless right?

Watch me terrorize some enchantress players.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=wh4EokLcoxE

Why not add music to it if you don't have/want to do voice-overs? Would be better than watching silent videos.

Well my primary goal was just to get a couple videos up. But I think future videos I'll probably try to record voice over for or maybe hurdy gurdy music . I'm also going to do a decktech/doomsday 101 type video so you can all hear my retard voice and bad jokes.

Any new content is good content, relatively speaking, in particular with regards to Legacy. If I wasn't deadass broke I'd build Vintage on MTGO and play some games, make some content. I'm really growing fond of Storm and Oath and I'm looking into Planeswalker control.

>any new content is good content
I feel like that's particularly relevant regarding DDFT, which I what motivated me to start making videos. The majority of existing videos fall into 2 categories: people losing with it, largely because they miss lines, and people playing against it on mtgo and trying to figure out what the fuck is happening while they get stomped by one of the handful of good players. Neither of these are very helpful.

I want to see matches against delver, BUG, miracles, reanimator, and lands.

Cradle is bad because it dies to wasteland

Well I have one against miracles up, but it's silent. I've got most of those other matchups lined up, I'll try to get some up with voice over in the next few days. I'll see if I can find one against reanimator that is interesting. The matchup boils down to "did they nut draw you? If not, do you have distuption?" And usually they nut draw.

>What would you do with it?
Paradoxical storm.

Going tribal clerics

Everything is white weenie and kill spells.
I have mad life gains and stupid amounts of combat control with all of my healing and damage mitigation.
My last game ended with me at 758 life and nearly all of my opponents deck worth of creatures on the field under my control.

You could incorporate background music as well; helps to cover dead space while the opponent's tanking. Maybe change the genre depending on the matchup, e.g. death metal for Dredge and Reanimator, Beethoven for Miracles, baroque for D&T or Mav, and mariachi music for Eldrazi (because ¡MI CORAZÓÓÓÓÓN!).

Bump

How does this make people feel?
theweeklywars.wordpress.com/2017/01/16/the-legacy-banlist/

That's really cool. Mind posting a decklist or a few cards from it? I've always dug Cleric-tribal after it became a thing in Onslaught.

>ban gitaxian probe
[Record Scratch]

>The reason many decks can do well in Legacy is that many bad decks are being played. The problem here is that those decks are only ‘bad’. Many of them still do really powerful things; almost every deck in the format has access to absurdly strong individual cards. In Legacy, when a threat goes unanswered it usually wins the game in short order.

I don't know what the fuck he's banging on about "bad" decks. Like what does he consider a "bad" deck if it does a powerful thing that will win the game?

He also refers to "tier two" decks as them having a particular power level instead of tiers just being based on usage.

I agree with the sentiment that nothing should be banned in Legacy, though.

I disagree with all his choices. Even chalice. I think his reasoning behind probe is especially weak. I agree that top should remain and I think he has a good point about miracles but I disconnect when he starts talking about mentor.

Right? Motherfucker never even gives an example of a "bad" deck. Is

To me most of the arguments seemed to amount to "I liked legacy better a few years ago, we should roll it back to that". If that's how you feel, that's fine, just come right out and say it instead of saying gitaxian probe needs a ban so people have to be good at cabal therapy again, as if therapy is always preceeded by probe.

>Terminus
>just a good, albeit situational, piece of removal.
Give your deck some library manipulation (which Miracles has plenty) and it is arguably the best board wipe ever. It's much more than "just good".

>Counterbalance is ONLY good when Top is on the field
>a combo is only good when you have all pieces of the combo
No shit, Sherlock!

I don't hate Miracles, but don't pretend that there aren't good reasons for hating it .

what makes you think I play Abrupt Degay?

mono-red for life nigga

>I have always hated Chalice. When you can go turn 1 "stop half your deck", there's a problem

I like chalice but that's because I play big dumb mana decks like 12post, MUD, and Dragon Stompy.

>Ban mentor
Honestly if there's such a big problem with miracles that they want to ban it then terminus or counterbalance should go. Top is played in a ton of decks and if it goes it'll be more for time constraints than any one deck
>Git probe
This is as close to a free spell as it gets but it's pretty inoffensive. Arguing it does too much for certain decks is a dangerous game in legacy that leads to the wrong cards getting banned for the wrong reasons
>Chalice and deathrite
Stopped reading here. The cards are fine. For every deck they shut down there are two that shrug at them.

Also saying a deck is bad except the good parts of the deck is a really poor descriptor for bad decks

>All the combofags complaining about miracles and chalice

The only thing i hate about miracles is when you get paired against other miracles. i just concede because the mirror always bore me.

Anyway i just prefer to play Canadian treshold than miracles. i just play miracles to bore aother people to death

I don't see how anyone can be phased by terminus in this format. I just don't understand. We've had board wipes since the beginning of the game. The only change is that creatures have increased in power such that ye olde bordewippe has been adapted to match. It's even nice enough to put it back in your library instead of exiling.

>We've had board wipes since the beginning of the game.
but never a 1 mana board wipe that gets around indestructibility.

2 mana and a tap :^)

>It immediately invalidates half the cards people play Legacy for
Just blow it up man. If you don't have some way to remove an artefact you're in trouble.

I don't agree with Probe or Mentor, but I do think that the format would be more interesting without Probe. It doesn't really seem bannable but the format would probably be better if it was never printed. Fixed DRS would be nice though.

>Fixed DRS would be nice though.
agreed. it seems like they gave him 2 toughness just to add insult to injury. he should have been 1/1.

They gave him 2 toughness so he didn't die to Gutshot.

ITT: Brew a fair non-blue equivalent to brainstorm

ex:
W - Draw three cards, then exile two cards in your hand from the game

>a mistake was made so an already broken card wouldn't die to another broken mistake (phyrexian mana)
wew

R - Exile the top three cards of your library. Until the end of your next turn, you may play one of those cards.