MTG Magic The Gathering Ask A Judge - 「 B L U E M O N D A Y 」

first ability of Baral, master of compliance affect any kind of cost (such as flashback) ?

Baral will reduce the cost of casting a spell.

Printed mana cost? Baral's gonna cut it.
Additional costs like kicker? Baral's gonna cut it.
Tax effects like Thalia? Baral's gonna cut it.
Alternative costs like flashback/buyback? Baral's gonna cut it.

A creature does not become "unblocked" until after declare blockers, when no blockers were declared for it. The earliest chance you have for Ninjutsu is in the Declare Blockers step, after blocks are declared.

Brisela doesn't ask 'what are you paying', it asks 'what is your CMC'. If the answer is 3 or less, they can't cast it. You can't Overload a Cyclonic Rift with Brisela out, because an Overloaded Rift still has a CMC of 3. By contrast, you -could- cast a Biting Rain via Madness, because even if you're paying 3 mana to cast it, it has a CMC of 4.

It reduces the cost of your instants and sorceries, whether you're casting then normally, or for an alternate cost (like Flashback).

Spellstutter sprite can counter an ancestral vision even if it dies while the ability is on the stack, right?

Right. The value of X is checked twice: as the ability goes onto the stack and needs a target (to make sure the target is legal), and again as it resolves. If the Sprite gets nuked in response to the trigger, then the trigger will go to resolve as "counter target spell with converted mana cost 0 or less". Conveniently, Ancestral Vision has a converted mana cost of 0, so it will be countered.

Did you judge for pre-release this weekend? If so, did you have a good time? Any good stories or interesting rulings/interactions?

I did not. Our local shop did not have need of my services as a judge, and they sold out of spots, so I just stayed home and read sci fi novels inbetween Overwatch matches and cleaning sprees all weekend.

Damn. Do you have any particular thoughts on Aether Revolt? Mechanics or otherwise?

I think it's pretty neat. I like that they did the Expertise cycle without making it a keyword (because 'free spells' is usually where they fuck up power level when there's 20 cards doing it), I like Revolt, and Improvise is neat.

Hey Galvanic, do you have a moment to discuss our dark lord and savior Yawgmoth, Father of Machines? He died so that others may be flayed.

Sorry, I only worship the One True God:

The Blessed and Holy Sixth Edition Rules Update.

Blessed be the stack that guideth our spells through the aether, amen.

Why do i always forget the questions i have before your thread shows up.

I hope you get a kick out of this. It's the best I could do with only a few minutes work, but it needs some work

Our Magic who art in our deck,
Library be thy name.
Thy Upkeep come.
Thy Untap done
on the Battlefield as it is in our Hand.
Give us this turn our turnly draw,
and forgive us our missplays,
as we forgive those who missplay against us,
and lead us into combat,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the game, and the match, and the top 8, for ever.
Amen.

Hah, nice.

I love this, the only suggestions I have are to the 1st and 6th lines.
1) I feel like the word 'Magic' should be changed to 'cards' or something. I've never heard anyone refer to the contents of a library as 'Magic'.
2) 'turnly' is redundant. Maybe "Give us this turn our perfect topdeck" or something? It should reference drawing the ideal card somehow.

Our Father, who art in Seattle
Magic be thy name.
Thy Update come,
Thy Rules be done
at Competitive as it is at Regular.

Give us this turn our turnly draw,
and forgive us our lucksacks,
as we forgive those who lucksack against us

And lead us not into Combo Winter
But deliver us from boring Standards

For thine are the Three Kingdoms, the Power Nine, and the Glorious Anthem, Eternal
Amen

How does thalia guardian of thraben interact with bring to light?

It makes bring to light cost (1) more right? And if the spell the person exiled with it is a noncreature spell he has to pay (1) more for it too or it stays exiled right?

It'll make Bring to Light cost 1 more, because it's a noncreature spell.

Whatever card they exile and then cast for 'free' will cost a total of 1, because that tax is added onto the base cost of 'without paying its mana cost'. So overall it'll cost 7 mana to cast whatever it is you find.

Alright, wasn't sure about the exile part, thanks.

If I play a Gnarlwood Dyriad while having delirium would a sword of the meek in the graveyard still trigger?

If I attack with Heavy Infantry and my opponent blocks with Scrapskin Drake, which creature will survive?

no it won't

It would not. Your Gnarlwood Dryad is a 3/3 the second it hits the board- it doesn't come down as a 1/1 and then get the boost.

Both? You'd rewind to immediately before blockers were declared because that's an illegal block.

If I cast a White enchantment, can I respond to it with Patrician's Scorn for free?

...

Absolutely! You'll want to explicitly hold priority, though.

"Cast INSERT SPELL HERE, holding priority; in response to that spell, cast Patrician's Scorn."

...

Can tapped equipment still be equiped?

1) If i would play Yahenni's Expertise, could I cast Living End from my hand with it?

2) If yes, which resolves first?

3) Will the Creatures which are put on the battlefield by Living End, be affected by the -3/-3 effect?

let's say I have thermo-alchemist tapped on the field and then I cast lighting axe, discard fiery temper, and pay fiery temper's madness cost. Casting lightning axe untaps thermo-alchemist. Can I tap thermo before paying fiery temper's madness cost so that fiery temper untaps thermo a second time?

1) Yes, Living End has a CMC of 0, which is less than 4.

2) Expertise does. Casting the spell is part of Expertise's effect; you'll give all the creatures on board -3/-3, then cast Living End, then put Expertise in the graveyard, check SBAs (meaning anything Expertise was GOING to kill will die), then resolve Living End.

3) No.

So, here's the process.

>Announce Lightning Axe
>Put on stack
>Announce intent to pay additional cost
>Choose target
>Total up costs
>Generate mana
>Pay costs in any order (discard Temper here)

Fiery Temper's Madness shunts it into exile, and triggers the other part of Madness. You now have two triggers to put on the stack: Alchemist's "Untap me", and Fiery Temper's "cast me". They're both yours, so you put them on the stack in the order of your choosing, but the order is largely irrelevant; if you put Alchemist first, you can untap, then ping, then resolve Madness trigger (and cast Temper), which untaps Alchemist. If you put Madness first, you cast Temper (which triggers Alchemist).

No matter how you do it, you'll be able to ping twice.

Yes, but it's still tapped.

Sure. Being tapped doesn't stop you from activating an ability unless it has the tap symbol in the cost, or explicitly says that it has to be untapped; Equip has neither restriction.

Crossposting from pre-release thread. The game is as following. I have scrounging bandar+another creature in play and opponent ends his turn.

I untap and in upkeep I declare that I want to move one counter from my bandar to my other creature. In response, he casts Cruel Finality targeting my Bandar. This is where a whole discussion with judge and player came up, where if or if not the counter was actually going to be moved, despite Bandar dying. The judge explained it as the counter being "pseudo on the stack" and that it got there regardless. Was he wrong?

He was wrong. As the trigger resolves, there's no counter *to* move. There's no such thing as 'pseudo on the stack'. The only things on the stack were a triggered ability and a removal spell. Once the Cruel Finality resolved, it pretty much blanked that trigger, because while the trigger can still resolve, it won't DO anything.

Thanks, it did feel a bit weird. I'll bring it up during friday's release draft.

Also, if they sass you, this is verbatim pulled from the Aether Revolt Release Notes:

You choose a target creature as Scrounging Bandar’s triggered ability is put onto the stack. You choose how many counters to move (if any) as that ability resolves. If that creature becomes an illegal target or if Scrounging Bandar has left the battlefield, you can’t move any counters.

I doubt they'll sass me, judge is a pretty cool guy and it's a decent community, but thanks for the source anyway.

If I have March of the Machines on the battlefield along with one or more un-crewed Vehicles, they become creatures with P/T = to their cmc correct?
Now what happens if I use them or other creatures to crew them with MotM still out? Do the P/T stay = cmc, or do they become artifact creatures to MotM and thus it stops affecting them and they get their normal P/T back until the Crew wears off?

They are auto-animated with P/T equal to their CMC. If you crew them... absolutely nothing changes. The P/T is a printed thing that exists in layer 1, it just doesn't DO anything until they gain the Creature type. March of the Machines animates them in Layer 4, but also overrides the printed P/T with "equal to CMC" in layer 7b.

Okay, so even activating Crew won't let them have their original P/T back. Thanks a bunch.

The reason it doesn't is because Layer 7 starts the crewed vehicle with a P/T score that gets overwritten by march of the machines in 7b.

Is Xmage bugged or do Greenwheel Liberator and Narnam Renegade's Revolt triggers not activate Panharmonicon?

When Wasteland Strangler enters the battlefield and the ETB trigger goes on the stack, does my opponent have to process a card in exile when the trigger goes on the stack or when the trigger resolves?

The trigger will trigger and later attempt to resolve, exiled card or no. If no opponent owns any exiled cards at the time of resolution, it'll just do jackshit.

You process when the ability resolves, but you choose targets when it triggers. So your opponent can respond to the ability after you choose what to hit with -3/-3, but before it goes through and before you process anything.
Also, the controller of the processor (you) are the one that processes an opponent's exiled card(s), as in you choose what gets processed, not the owner of the exiled card(s).

>6E Rules Update
tell me more
t. 1y player

I have a question about Yidris's ability:
If I were to cast a card like Mind Grind (u/b/(x)), with an x in its cost, would the card I cascade into have to be less than 2+x? Or just 2?

Less than X+2. When you cast the spell, you announce what X is as you're casting it, and X is whatever that number is until it resolves. Anywhere else but the stack, X is zero, but in this case, Yidris will look at the spell and say "hey, that spell has a CMC of X+2, let's go cascade for something that costs X+1".

As an aside, X spells are still probably bad for Yidris, because when you cascade INTO them, you cast them for free, and when you cast an X spell for free, X is always zero. Bad times, unless you're playing some bizarre dredge EDH deck and you hit Breakthrough.

pretty sure i don't understand layers at all
so if I Tezzeret's Touch a Consulate Dreadnought it is a 5/5
and when I crew 6 it it does not become a convenience store but remains a 5/5
right?

Neither of those have triggers. They have replacement effects that modify how they enter the battlefield.

A triggered ability will always be worded as "When/Whenever/At [TRIGGER EVENT], [EFFECT]". It needs to say when/whenever/at to be a trigger.

Resolves. Pretty much the only choice made as a trigger goes on the stack is 'what am I gonna target' or 'what mode am I picking' for modal ones. Damn near everything else is on resolution.

If there's no exiled cards TO process as the trigger resolves (maybe you hit your only one with Pull from Eternity or something in response), the trigger just stops there and resolves without doing anything.

This is an answer for the morning. If the thread's still up I'll give you one- otherwise, I'll answer it in the next.

The value of X in a mana cost is 0 everywhere but the stack. On the stack, it's whatever value you assigned it. So if you Grind for X=5, then that Mind Grind has a CMC of 7, and you're wheeling until you hit 6 or less.

BED IS NOW

Thank you both!

Can you please explain how pic related works to a retard?

Okay so the key to Phasing is to pretend those permanents don't exist. Not dead, not exiled, they just magically vanish. Then, on your next untap step, they magically reappear! Presto! They don't enter the battlefield, they don't trigger abilities, they just are there. Also if anything with Phasing was there before this occurred it now disappears.

So if it was tapped when it phased out its tapped when it comes back?

So in reference to how Taniwha works, it'll disappear on your next untap step. Then on your second untap step it'll reappear and your lands will phase out on the upkeep. Then the next untap after that, Taniwha will disappear and your lands will reappear. Then it starts to repeat.

They will phase back in untapped but as phasing takes place at the beginning of the untap step you'll still untap those cards.

Phase back in tapped*

I have Anowon, Sheoldred and Gray Merchant on play. Can I stack the upkeep triggers in a way that I sacrifice Merchant to Anowon and return it to the battlefield with Sheoldred right away?

no you can't

Sheoldred's trigger needs to have a target when it goes onto the stack or it'll fail to resolve.(Note this works the same way for literally everything that targets something.)

If I cast Rite or Replication after resolving past in flames do I still pay the kicker cost if I want the kicker effect or is it part of the free cast?

If I want to copy Saheeli's Artistry with Radiate, does it have to be only one mode chosen or can both be chosen and can Radiate somehow copy the spell for both modes?

Second part of that question is if Saheeli's Atristry copied with Radiate for only one mode, can I choose new modes for the copies or are the copies just copies of the spell with the original chosen mode?

>If I cast Rite or Replication after resolving past in flames do I still pay the kicker cost if I want the kicker effect or is it part of the free cast?
Kicker is an additional cost. If you cast something without paying its mana cost, it's not kicked for free but you can pay to kick it.

>If I want to copy Saheeli's Artistry with Radiate, does it have to be only one mode chosen or can both be chosen and can Radiate somehow copy the spell for both modes?
>Second part of that question is if Saheeli's Atristry copied with Radiate for only one mode, can I choose new modes for the copies or are the copies just copies of the spell with the original chosen mode?
Radiate will look at the mode chosen for Saheeli's Artistry and copy it for each other target it could have for that mode. You will be unable to change the mode for any of the copies. See 700.2g

got it. thanks

If I cast Kari Zev's Expertise on my opponent's Monastery Swiftspear, does it gain the +1/+1 from prowess?

If your opponent has an Elesh Norn in play and you use one of the expertise's to get out pic related while you lack only a sorcery in the graveyard to get delerium, does Grim Flayer die when it enters the battlefield?
Likewise, if you use yahenni's expertise when you lack 1 sorcery for delirium to activate, does grim flayer die?

So, Phasing is pretty simple once you break it down. As you begin your untap step, you look at all your stuff. If you have anything that's currently phased out, you phase it back in. Simultaneous with that, if you have anything with Phasing that's phased-in, you phase it out. Basically, Taniwha is only 'there' every other turn.

To phase something out, get a big-ass cup (like a 7-11 Slurpee cup), write "CUP O PHASING" on it. When something phases out, put it under the cup. It hasn't actually gone anywhere, we're just pretending it doesn't exist right now. When it phases back in, take the cup off of it and stop pretending it doesn't exist.

It'll phase back in tapped, but since that happens before you untap in the untap step, it'll just untap again.

Nope; Shelly needs a target the moment her trigger goes on the board, and Gary's not dead yet. You'll have to reanimate something else, and then get back Gary next turn.

Past in Flames doesn't let you cast anything for free, it gives your spells flashback. You can still pay Kicker if you're doing flashback, but you DO have to pay for it.

As long as the spell only has one target, it's legal to hit it with Radiate. Even if it says 'target' more than once, as long as it's only aimed at one target you're good. Of course, if you do that it'll only Radiate to every artifact creature on board, because as you've cast it it can only target artifact creatures.

You don't pick new modes for the copies, just targets, and those are chosen for you by Radiate.

Nope. You didn't control it as you cast the spell, so Prowess never triggered.

You'd cast Flayer as part of the Expertise. By the time Flayer actually resolves, Expertise has resolved and is in the graveyard, so it'll be a 4/4 as it enters.

>6th Ed Rules
gA can give a more correct answer, but the host of it is originally Magic used a complex system called "batches" for resolving spells and abilities. It's somewhat similar to yugioh's "Chain" system, only more convoluted due to having codified rules everything needed to adhere to. In addition to instants and sorceries you had "interrupts" which were instants that only could be played any time you COULDN'T cast a sorcery, and "mana sources" which were faster than instants but resolved separately.

When 6th Edition was released, it brought with it a complete overhaul of that system, called "The Stack". Everything was streamlined and generally made infinitely easier both to see from a logical standpoint, and from a rules code standpoint.

That's why 6E rules update is so revered among judges (and mtg oldfags alike)

STORYTIME

So, back in the days before Classic Sixth Edition (and more importantly, the accompanying rules update), we did not have a lot of the stuff we have now. Most notably, we didn't have the Stack. We had what were called 'batches'. Whereas the stack is really intuitive (First in, last out), the batch... was not.

This picture is one of -four- that was included in Duelist #9 to simplify explanations of the batch system. On top of that, there were a lot of needlessly complex parts of the old rules system that they sought to change, because they were (rightfully) worried that if things kept going that way, the game's complexity would go through the roof before long.

If my opponent has Thalia, guardian of thraben out and I have no free mana, can I still sac a creature to cabal therapy but not cast it? I was Able to do it online and was wondering if that was a bug.

Also if I have lantern of insight out and my opponent plays serum visions, do i get to see the top card between the draw and the scry?

Fuck in a bucket I forgot the image.

You still have to pay 1 mana to flashback therapy with Thalia out. It was a bug.

You will be able to see their top card before the scry, but only that one card.

Oh, I know some old players who HATED it. A common complaint back in the day was that the 6E Rules Update was 'dumbing the game down'.

Other notable changes from 5E rules to 6E rules:

>ETB triggers used to be something you couldn't respond to
>Some ETB triggers would resolve during a spell, and some wouldn't, and the difference was not readily apparent
>damage prevention 'steps'
>If you hit 0 or less life, you didn't lose until the end of that step; you could take lethal damage, and then later in that step gain life or kill your opponent back
>most artifacts "turned off" if tapped

And a few others. Shit was sideways, son.

You can't pay half the costs for a spell. You'd announce you're flashing back Cabal Therapy, put it on the stack, total up the costs, and go to pay... but be unable to. So you'd get a Game Play Error - Game Rule Violation, a Warning, and we'd rewind to immediately before you took the illegal action.

You'll see whatever the top card is before they draw, after they draw, and after the scry.

Also I believe once a batch started resolving, no one could play any more cards? Compared to now when we can do crap like this:
>be at 1 life
>opponent casts shock
>metallic rebuke
>opponent pays 3
>metallic rebuke again
>opponent only has two mana left
casts a second shock

Right. You'd go back and forth responding until nobody had a response, then the whole batch would start to resolve.

It was really non-intuitive and overly complex.

Hold on. I think this discussion happened before.

>I control a Smuggler's Copter and a March of the Machines. what is the P/T of the Copter? what would it be if I activated the crew ability?

>The Copter is a 2/2, because it's not NORMALLY a creature, so March animates it and makes it a 2/2. I feel like the Crewing part might be fucky, so I'm gonna check on that for you.

>Okay, double check done. Vehicles' P/T is not 'set' in 7b by getting crewed, it's just a fucky thing inherent to them that only turns on when they're creatures (kinda like the Gods). Vehicle + March of the Machines = they always have P/T equal to their CMC, even when crewed, so don't waste your dudes crewing them.

>But wouldn't March of the Machines ability stop applying if some other effect turns the copter into a creature?

>Alright, there was more discussion, and it looks like the answer I gave was incorrect! Mea culpa. Crewing the vehicle will turn March off, because it creates a dependency. Applying the Crew effect first makes March not work (since it's no longer a noncreature artifact), so we must apply it first regardless of timestamps. That means March's P/T setting ability doesn't exist in layer 7b, so the creature just has the printed P/T.

I think I got like five different answers to that question when I went seeking clarification.

But yeah, I recall now, and there is a dependency. March and Crew both want to work in layer 4. Applying one before the other changes the set of objects the other applies to (applying Crew first makes March not apply to this thing), so we have to apply them in that order.