- GW deliberately kills off models and elevates others so you BUY MOAR. Privateer Press actually does not do this. Buffing underused models and nerfing overused models isn't this. GW literally makes certain models illegal in edition changes.
I'm still using PP models I used 10 years ago on the table today. I can't say the same for my GW armies.
It's actually not terrible, which is.... annoyingly uncommon among online Warmahordes communities.
Elijah Campbell
Second this. Played 40k for 12 years. Armies didn't get updated on each edition change, so you'd end up with rules that simply did not apply to the game. New books were usually overpowered, but simultaneously required you to get all new stuff to compete.
And then, simultaneously, they did incomprehensibly stupid things like change the rules so the Eldar Wave Serpent was the best transport in the game, and then discontinue the model a week later.
PP is nowhere close. They make some dumb mistakes (see: everything digital they've ever done), but tend to have the game staggering in the right direction.
Given the depth of the non-Skorne errata, I wish they'd release them at least twice as fast as they're planning, though.
Alexander White
>i know all the playtesters! >they hate the game! >i wont name names except the most well known one >warmahordes is dead please play guildball with me
Elijah Fisher
I can't use my Imperial Guard from 8 years ago anymore, because back then, I was allowed to swap the unit leader's melee weapon with a Lasgun.
In the codex after that and the codex now, I can't, because I don't have legal unit leaders for my squads.
Zachary King
No offense, user, but that's not the best example I'd say. Removing one option that unit leaders have isn't the kind of change that is designed to fuck you over, even if that is a result, but a balance change. If GW actually bothered to balance the game regularly that sort of chamge would be one of those 'that's unfortunate, but I'd have no problem letting you use them as proxies since it means we get a more balanced game'
Again, not saying GW hasn't fucked people over model wise, with the removing of characters or changing how many of a unit can fit into a normal CAD, just that yours wasn't the best example of GW being shitty.
Asher Walker
Not him, but here was mine:
Got into Tyranids because you could run, at the time, a Hive Tyrant and ~6 Carnifexes. It was essentially a Hordes list. Carnis in Elite and Heavy slots.
Come new edition, not only am I not allowed to use half my models, the other half is no longer WYSIWYG.
Joseph Adams
Yeah, that's a stinker. Losong WYSIWYG sucks, but at least is something reasonable opponents understand. Not being able to field half the models you used to be able to is the same reason PP doesn't want to cut down the FA:U stuff.
John Howard
I think Themeforces would have been the perfect spot to apply FA:2-3 to jacks
Might end up making Bradigus and the Baldurs cool again.
Looking forward to Loki as well.
Daniel Richardson
Do we happen to know what Skorne is getting in their new book at all?
Jason Thompson
A shooty caster.
That's all I'm aware of so far.
Jackson Murphy
I seen somewhere on the forums that CoC is getting new model(s) with their command book, but I thought we weren't getting a book at all. Was that a forum kid thinking wishfully, or are we legitimately getting new models that are (hopefully) better than the PCon?
Caleb Green
Are you a retard? Carnifexs can be run in broods of 3. You can still take 6
Carter Allen
I think xekaar is getting a character cyclops.
Lincoln Lewis
Circle, Protectorate, Legion, and Cygnar look to be "official release of junior2, a new caster, and a warnoun bonded to junior2". Trolls and Khador don't follow this pattern.
So who knows.
Chase Roberts
Sounds cool to me.
Hope they get a new Character Beast.
Of all the beast options Skorne has, it would be cool if they got a giant character Razor Worm heavy. That or an Aradus.
Connor Lopez
Maybe it's zaadesh then, idk. I remember hearing of a character cyclops and I thought it was xekaar.
Jacob Butler
These guys haven't exactly been impressing the internets with their optimism, and they're congealing around the impression that skorne is now so good that they can't fully grasp how good they are.
>nerfs when >i kid, i kid
Hunter Cox
Oops, should be "junior2, new caster, warnoun bonded to battlebox caster".
Yeah, a beast bonded to Xekaar would follow the pattern.
Caleb Campbell
Can you now? I should mention the last time I played was 2007, so there's probably been 3-4 edition changes inbetween.
Carter Anderson
>mfw when all of my post in PP forums require moderator approvals
Charles Moore
Stop being an asshole.
Julian Williams
Never
Wyatt Robinson
>warmahordes
Dylan Rogers
Fair enough.
Christian Brown
I look forward to the now dawning era of newbies upon hearing that Skorne players complain about their faction 24/7 thinking that we're all a bunch of goddamned lunatics.
Landon Garcia
>All my posts require mod approval >Lulz, they mad.
Bitch, they don't care. You're just a minor annoyance to them.
hard localized blitz would be my guess given some of the changes
Connor Russell
Fuck bitches, get money.
Noah Perez
If they just let the Avatar be part of your Battlegroup, it would be fine IMO.
It's just the fact that it doesn't take up Warjack points AND doesn;t benefit from Power Up/Battlegroup Spells that really kills it. Otherwise he would still be a good jack.
They should just let the Avatar be part of your battlegroup, use up warjack points but he still doesn't have a cortex and generates his own Focus.
The only other fix I would make might be to let him always just have 3 focus each turn. Avatar really isn't all that horrible compared to some of the new character jacks, I don't see how he needs the RNG focus as a balancing factor. He should just be allowed to have full focus each turn.
Jordan Garcia
I'd like to see a more characterful fix than that. Giving the caster focus would be interesting, although costing it would be a pain.
Ryan Thomas
Doesn't feel like their playstyle changed all that much, it just got better.
Basically, they are a mixed force that is a great counter puncher. So they are just way better at surviving shooting now and put out more ranged dmg.
Outside of that, Skorne infantry now has game again so maybe we will actually see Zaal2 infantry spams.
I don't think their "game" has changed, it's just more viable now. Makeda1 seems to be getting a lot of attention so look forward to threat extension on beasts.
Christopher Nelson
The avatar is a jack that can't be in the battlegroup, in a faction with fantastic battlegroup spells and abilities.
Zachary James
I think the Avatar itself is already pretty characterful.
Avatar is basically just hard to kill and puts out a lot of hurt. I don't know that he really needs all that much outside of being able to benefit from WJPs and Battlegroup Spells.
His gimmick is pretty much being a focus free jack. That's not all that useful anymore but it could still be good with a lot of low focus casters.
Colton Myers
Of course, if they gave him native Pathfinder I would not complain. Just saying.
Carter Perez
Is Skorne saved?
Kevin Smith
A templar is hard to kill, and hits just as hard as the avatar does if its target has a shield, or as hard as a reckoner if it lacks a shield. Also gets to use warjack points and battlegroup abilities.
To be worth its massive drawbacks, the avatar needs more than just being an arm 21 jack with good pow and menoth's gaze.
Eli Bell
Yes, but we'll see if it's safe.
Landon Gutierrez
See:
Carson Carter
>Outside of that, Skorne infantry now has game again so maybe we will actually see Zaal2 infantry spams.
Did we ever not see Zaal2 infantry spams? It looked like it was one of the last lists still being played by them that wasn't some new take on Ferrox. And even then they were putting Ferrox in it.
Andrew Martin
You could take Carnifexes in broods of 3.
Christian Cook
>The only other fix I would make might be to let him always just have 3 focus each turn I am glad you don't work for PP
Kevin Green
Should Cryx just get their old rules back? It wouldn't even be op by this point.
Brandon Parker
Should just dump Cryx and elevate Convergence.
James James
There was not an ounce of balance involved in the Sergeant change, because you can buy them Bolters for 1 Point (a weapon that's superior to a Lasgun).
They literally just did it because they're lazy and didn't care.
Tyler Baker
But CoC is boring.
Julian Cook
Say what you like but the tourney results on Discount Games are much more varied than they used to be. People moaning and groaning about Trolls and Cryx need to sit down and get good, since both factions are still placing regularly.
That being said, some tweaks should go out. Beasts need a point reduction.
Hudson Edwards
Cryx should be named Satycryx, no one even uses undead models anymore.
Jason Gomez
Bane Thralls need stealth back so they can survive against gunlines. Bane Knights need weapon master back so they can hit hard enough against high arm. Mechanithralls need their old recursion back so they can do their job as speed bumps. Bile Thralls need their old purge back so they can do their job as crowd control. Bloodgorgers need gang back so they can hit and cause damage reliably. Skarlock needs to be able to cast upkeeps to have any value. WSC needs to lose attached and Maelovus needs another ability (like Dark Industries) to replace spell slave so Skarlock has a niche. Tartarus needs his old movement and defence back and curse needs to give extra movement again to justify his points cost. Bane Riders need 2'' reach and old curse or a price drop. Revenant Cannon Crew needs ghost shot and higher pow. Darragh needs old death ride for Cryx tryx.
Michael Rivera
Can you come over to me house asap? My fries taste a little bland and I was wondering if you could salt them for me.
Wyatt Ward
Just offering constructive criticism. Feel free to counter-argue like an adult.
Aaron Perry
>Ferrox But WMHG told me Ferox were a meme.
Charles Jackson
That's literally just Mk2 bullshit Cryx. Not gonna happen
Elijah Nguyen
>Bane Thralls need stealth back so they can survive against gunlines. They need something. The UA going to 4p and getting Tactics:Tough should be enough. >Bane Knights need weapon master back so they can hit hard enough against high arm. Fuck off. They hit harder than before. Just not on Vengeance moves. >Mechanithralls need their old recursion back so they can do their job as speed bumps. Fuck no. Let's not bring the most broken thing in the game back. Let them forfeit Movement or Action by choice. That sounds more fair. >Bile Thralls need their old purge back so they can do their job as crowd control. And once more: fuck no. They're fine and actually still fuck 2na sideways (as they should). >Bloodgorgers need gang back so they can hit and cause damage reliably. Yup. >Skarlock needs to be able to cast upkeeps to have any value. Skarlock needs a rework. Not his Mk2 shenannigans but a rework. >WSC needs to lose attached and Maelovus needs another ability (like Dark Industries) to replace spell slave so Skarlock has a niche. WSC are fine, moving on. >Tartarus needs his old movement and defence back and curse needs to give extra movement again to justify his points cost. He needs the first half and a points discount. Everything above that is once more bullshit. >Bane Riders need 2'' reach and old curse or a price drop. Yup. >Revenant Cannon Crew needs ghost shot and higher pow. It certainly needs something. >Darragh needs old death ride for Cryx tryx. [picture of smug anime girl]
You're not getting your Mk2 bullshit back and that is a good thing. I know Cryx needs help, but it's idiots like you demanding all the OP things ever that will prevent Cryx from getting anything ever.
Asher Fisher
Cryx fags got so used to OP that they literally can't envision changes that cause them to be any other way. They were spoiled for years.
Sebastian Taylor
Which is a shame for the actually reasonable Cryx players who get boned (heh) alongside the idiots.
Andrew Jenkins
All that would really do is make all of the units do what they're supposed to do, instead of making all of them shit so that Satyxis get to be the new hotness.
Mk III needs more bounty to it's units so that there's a better variety of cool shit on the table, instead of making a few broken units in each faction that get copy-pasted ad nauseum.
Adam Gomez
Supposedly we're going to get a combo Command + Theme Book, since we aren't getting a normal command book. This might have been decided after the decision to stop putting rules in Books, so they can stuff some more fluff in the planned CoC Theme book.
Jackson Carter
Cryx was never as op as Khador is now. Giving Cryx their old tools back would merely put them on equal footing with other mk3 factions.
Luis Nguyen
Are you for real or is this the new skorneposting?
Jason Young
Cryx player
I don't think Cryx needs to return to MK 2 power levels, but they feel kinda boring right now. Unless you take one of our few casters that are still good, our stuff sucks. I'd like it if some of our infantry besides Satyxis were worth taking, if our jacks didn't become crippled by the shooting of basic infantry, and if some of our casters were worth taking again.
You'll also notice that our best casters are either a) Turd Polishers, or b) Capable of playing into gunlines and winning. The stable of options we have feels limited, and it appears that, as far as synergy goes, we've become the new Skorne.
I don't mind if PP makes our infantry shit, but I do mind when they make our casters similarly shitty (and thus unable to even turd polish).
Chase Ortiz
Any idea on when this is gonna be, or is it "some time after March"
Leo Nelson
How fucking stupid do you have to be to think that Bane Knights hit harder without weapon master?
Easton Brown
The kind of stupid that can do basic math.
Jordan Richardson
Actually, I revert that. They hit slightly less hard now. The P+S-increase was only 1 and not 2. P+S14 unbuffed is still plenty.
Asher White
No idea what the official window is. However, I'd put money on 'After all the command books' at the earliest and 'After Lock & Load and sometime after a few other theme books' as being the most likely.
Jordan Morgan
Big stompy monsters are coming to shoot up your shit!
Y'know, if we're getting even a single new unit I'll be happy to wait.
On another note, in the latest Primecast they mentioned running a Beast team or a Bots team in GRIND. I was hoping I'd be able to run both so I could call my team Bones n' Bolts Athletics, but I guess now I'm gonna have to pick one or the other
Andrew Johnson
>CoC >New models
Parker Evans
You accidentally clicked the Willbreaker instead of another Void Spirit, user. Then you accidentally clicked the Animantarax instead of Titans.
Eli Jones
The Willbreaker is amazing, especially with Spell Slingers. The Animatarax is fucking legit with SPD8 and POW19 shots.
Levi Davis
He might be worth it now that Rasheth can cast double breath on infantry before the infantry actually gets to move up the board. Like that's actually so big that you can deny so much movement. A single breath could be run around fairly easily, but this is just hella annoying. Almost makes me wanna bring a Sentinel and drop ANOTHER pool of acid.
Jaxson Taylor
lmao, Khador hasn't seen any action since Mad Dog nerf.
Austin Rivera
>Cryx was never as op as Khador is now. And people manage to say that with a straight face.
Brody Edwards
Yes and? Should Cygnar be called Lancenar now, Khador WGRI+Rocketdor, and the Protectorate of Idrians? Most factions only bring one or two units, which are considered the best.
Asher Myers
>"official release of junior2, a new caster, and a warnoun bonded to junior2"
Protectorate's jack from the Command book was bonded to Malekus, not Tristan (junior2).
Grayson Nelson
People need to learn that tournament play is generally a really bad indicator for what's balanced or viable. Of course you'll only ever see a handful of things in tourney play. No matter how well you balance your game, given a certain degree of complexity, there will always be the one option, or the one interaction that is just a bit better than the rest. And since pro play is all about winning, people will play whatever's best.
I'm not saying there isn't some busted shit, like 14 Dogs had to go, and Skorne really did need the errata, but there's a surprising amount of absolutely viable options that people are quick to disregard as shit just because they don't see tournament play.
There's a lot of room between "fielded in every competitive list" and "unplayable trash", you know.
Brody Taylor
But are Banes unplayable trash? Aren't they just another unit like Stormblade Infantry that packs a punch but has problems with delivery? Of course there's other undead units, some of which are garbage and others (like Blackbanes Raiders) which have a strange niche
Austin Campbell
I really wanna play Hexeris1 now. Parasite is a VERY good spell. A Cyclops Raider can now roll straight 3d6 against a Circle heavy, or your infantry all get +3 to damage rolls against a heavy. And now that his single target nuke is only 2 fury, it's not that bad as a way of clearing expensive infantry anymore. 3 Dawnguard Sentinels for free is 5.7 points off the table. Then a Raider and Shaman can pick off another one each, and suddenly the unit has lost a lot of power. Then against cheaper infantry he has the option of Obliteration. I just wish they'd done something sensible with his feat. It's still awful and takes ages to resolve. You're not even forced into taking Despoiler anymore since he gained Great Power.
Tyler Morales
>tfw you could take away the krielston, give every troll model +2ARM and +1STR and trolls would still be worse than Khador and Ret
Isaac Ward
They did something with his feat; try it out now that it's no longer "...and half the time, nothing comes of it. Next model.", should be much less frustrating.
I didn't think I'd see the day that Skorne was united as one, beating down doors to get Makeda1 and Hexeris1 on the table. We actually *tried* to do that with Hexeris1 back in mk2, as a community thing.
Joseph Ramirez
Does Khador have a medium based warcaster?
Ian Foster
I don't really have a problem delivering the Banes. To be fair, there's not alot of Cygnar players here, but my casters generally either have occultation or some other defensive unit buff or I just run something high SPD to gum up the works until they get there.
Max mechthralls with a skarlock that just runs and runs works fine while Darragh Death Rides the Banes up the field.
Wyatt Bennett
The butcher. If you mean for man o wars, either Irusk or Kozlov are probably pretty good.
Josiah Thomas
The Butchers, and HorseVlad
Cameron Green
Isnt horse vlad large based?
Justin Johnson
"Makeda-Ferox-done" was a bullshit meme, and probably really bad advice at that.
Ferox were a good cavalry unit.
Matthew James
Karchev is small based? That's hard to imagine
Julian Ortiz
Pretty sure Karchev is large base.
Noah Fisher
Ferox are good. I think they're slightly overrated, but they're good.
I'm more excited about Cetrati now since they got cheaper *and* lost some support bloat (with built-in Tough instead of having to drag a Willbreaker along), but Ferox are quite good.
Nicholas Nelson
Bought some Kayazy Eliminators and didn't like how static they look, so I put some greenstuff into it.
The ones on the left are borrowed from a friend, to have a comparison.
